Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[Airbagwill]

6 hours ago, transam said:

And the metric use of the power of ten was due to number of fingers and thumbs..

Many civilisations used digits - hence digital. Some used 20s as they counted toes too. However for really easy arithmetic in your head use series of 9s.

the Romans were noted in particular for using decimal systems but their numerical system was crap. The numbers we use today came from India and Arabia.

Mile comes from the Latin one thousand.

th current system of digital weights and measures comes from the French after the revolution. It helped advance science no end...largely because it used incredible simple calculation systems.

Anyone who di 11 plus in te days of stones/pounds/ounces will remember what a ridiculous system that was.

 

to put Man on the moon the USA used both metric and traditional. The science was largely metric and the engineering was still "old school" - however NASA went fully metric back in 2007.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Airbagwill

[Kieran00001]

49 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Maybe you've been fed a few lies by your pro EU buddies. Real fishermen are outraged by the CFP, and the fishing industry in the UK is a fraction of the size that it was before the CFP. That means thousands lost their living around the coasts of the UK (and Ireland).

Did you miss the boat protests along the Thames leading up to the referendum? Maybe you were out that day.

 

The decimation of our fishing industry as a result of the CFP is widely known and not disputed, so I can only assume you're winding us up. I'm not going to exchange a load of web links with you.  But I will leave you with this from the (pro-EU) BBC website about a week ago:

 

7^th March 2018

 

Scots fishermen slam EU call for access to UK waters

Simon Collins from the Shetland Fishermen's Association called the EU proposal "completely unacceptable".

He said: "As an opening gambit goes, the EU's stance is arrogant, absurd and nonsensical. The UK will become an independent coastal state on 29 March 2019, and we insist that it exercises its rights and responsibilities as such immediately.

"No coastal state currently offers the EU guarantees of access to its waters and natural resources, and neither should we."

Bertie Armstrong, chief executive of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation, said existing reciprocal access should not be continued.

He said: "This latest gambit must be rejected. When we leave the EU we leave the Common Fisheries Policy and assume our rightful place at the table as a coastal state.

"Each year we will then decide who catches what, where and when. The days of the EU taking 60% of our fish are coming to an end. The sea of opportunity is within reach."

 

 

 

 

The UK fishing industry has seen year on year gross profit margins increase from 15% in 2008 to 40% today and realising the highest gross profit in the EU, that's thanks to the CFP by the way, without which we would now see British fishermen out of work as their target species would already be extinct, every fisherman knows that.

 

Sure our overall landings have decreased since joining the EU, but then we were at an all time high when we joined, landing had been steadily increasing since the late 1890's until we joined and we are now back to those levels, and the fraction it has been reduced by? A half, but then some species have increased, we land 35% more shellfish than we did before we joined, and profits are all up anyway, the only real loss is in jobs and that is mostly due to switching to larger vessels which of course has nothing to do with the EU, in fact they have slowed it a little by providing funding for communities who build their own boats.

 

Theres actually just a little more to all this than you will read in the papers, there are fishing communities in the UK in a variety of circumstances, some have gained while others have lost.

 

[Airbagwill]

no way will UK fisherman get it all their own way...

 

The UK fishing community may emerge from Brexit in a weaker position than it expects. - FT

They are like so many Brexiteers unaware of the most likely outcomes...... choosing emotion over reason.

 

Fishing accounts for .5% of the Brit economy

UK will no longer be able to access EU waters

They will have many fished out seas that need re-regulating

They will have to do deals with thr Uk and WTO will disallow over-reached boundaries.

First, while the Scottish fishing fleet depends relatively little on non-UK waters, the English fleet traditionally catches its fish in Irish, French and Norwegian, as well as UK, waters.

the UK fishing industry depends heavily on exports to the EU, so is vulnerable to tariffs.UK loves cod - BUT - UK vessels benefit from rights to fish large quantities of cod in North Norwegian waters that are “paid for” by transfers to Norway of other stocks which are mainly of value to other EU countries.

            Britain could refuse to do a deal and go its own way. But the government would need to consider the consequences of such a move. The breakdown of any agreement would probably lead to overfishing and the depletion of stocks. It would result in the imposition of tariff barriers. Above all, the British would have to ask themselves whether they could effectively patrol and defend UK waters against fishing boats from EU states.  - FT

 

[CG1 Blue]

4 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

The UK fishing industry has seen year on year gross profit margins increase from 15% in 2008 to 40% today and realising the highest gross profit in the EU, that's thanks to the CFP by the way

I'm not sure why you're quoting gross profit margin percentages. 40% of £0 isn't going to help all those who lost their businesses / jobs.

 

The fact is thousands have lost their livelihoods in the UK coastal towns. I'd like to see you touring towns like Grimsby with a loud hailer repeating these positive sound bites you've found on Google.  I'm sure they'd really embrace you...

[Kieran00001]

16 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

no way will UK fisherman get it all their own way...

 

The UK fishing community may emerge from Brexit in a weaker position than it expects. - FT

They are like so many Brexiteers unaware of the most likely outcomes...... choosing emotion over reason.

 

Fishing accounts for .5% of the Brit economy

UK will no longer be able to access EU waters

They will have many fished out seas that need re-regulating

They will have to do deals with thr Uk and WTO will disallow over-reached boundaries.

First, while the Scottish fishing fleet depends relatively little on non-UK waters, the English fleet traditionally catches its fish in Irish, French and Norwegian, as well as UK, waters.

the UK fishing industry depends heavily on exports to the EU, so is vulnerable to tariffs.UK loves cod - BUT - UK vessels benefit from rights to fish large quantities of cod in North Norwegian waters that are “paid for” by transfers to Norway of other stocks which are mainly of value to other EU countries.

            Britain could refuse to do a deal and go its own way. But the government would need to consider the consequences of such a move. The breakdown of any agreement would probably lead to overfishing and the depletion of stocks. It would result in the imposition of tariff barriers. Above all, the British would have to ask themselves whether they could effectively patrol and defend UK waters against fishing boats from EU states.  - FT

 

 

The UK can't stop some EU countries fleets as they have agreements that precede the EU and are protected by international law.

[CG1 Blue]

22 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

no way will UK fisherman get it all their own way...

 

The UK fishing community may emerge from Brexit in a weaker position than it expects. - FT

They are like so many Brexiteers unaware of the most likely outcomes...... choosing emotion over reason.

 

Fishing accounts for .5% of the Brit economy

UK will no longer be able to access EU waters

They will have many fished out seas that need re-regulating

They will have to do deals with thr Uk and WTO will disallow over-reached boundaries.

First, while the Scottish fishing fleet depends relatively little on non-UK waters, the English fleet traditionally catches its fish in Irish, French and Norwegian, as well as UK, waters.

the UK fishing industry depends heavily on exports to the EU, so is vulnerable to tariffs.UK loves cod - BUT - UK vessels benefit from rights to fish large quantities of cod in North Norwegian waters that are “paid for” by transfers to Norway of other stocks which are mainly of value to other EU countries.

            Britain could refuse to do a deal and go its own way. But the government would need to consider the consequences of such a move. The breakdown of any agreement would probably lead to overfishing and the depletion of stocks. It would result in the imposition of tariff barriers. Above all, the British would have to ask themselves whether they could effectively patrol and defend UK waters against fishing boats from EU states.  - FT

 

Some of these are possible. Others are twisting the facts to form an argument.

 

For example, "Fishing accounts for 0.5% of the Brit economy".  Well fishing could be a much bigger part of the Brit economy if we regained control of our waters, so that point is moot.  

[Kieran00001]

5 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I'm not sure why you're quoting gross profit margin percentages. 40% of £0 isn't going to help all those who lost their businesses / jobs.

 

The fact is thousands have lost their livelihoods in the UK coastal towns. I'd like to see you touring towns like Grimsby with a loud hailer repeating these positive sound bites you've found on Google.  I'm sure they'd really embrace you...

 

I quoted that partly because a high gross profit margin is the best indicator of health in industry, so as the gross profit margin has been increasing it means the industry has been improving not suffering as some are trying to claim, and also because the UK now has the highest profit from their fishing industry of any country in the EU, who knows what your £0 nonsense was about, the profits are up as the value of the catch has increased at a far greater rate than the size of the catch has decreased, less fish but more money.  Sure, people have lost their jobs, just look at the fleet these days, they've got ships, whereas when Grimsby was thriving they were little wooden clinkers manned by dad and his son, more jobs but didn't a lot not come back?

[Kieran00001]

8 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Some of these are possible. Others are twisting the facts to form an argument.

 

For example, "Fishing accounts for 0.5% of the Brit economy".  Well fishing could be a much bigger part of the Brit economy if we regained control of our waters, so that point is moot.  

 

Explain how fishing could be a much bigger part of the economy and I will consider that part moot, until then your blind guessing that it could be bigger counts for very little indeed.

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Deutschland?

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

The UK can't stop some EU countries fleets as they have agreements that precede the EU and are protected by international law.

Yes! But we have the Royal Navy to protect our interests. If the EU gets tough we can get tougher!!

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Yes! But we have the Royal Navy to protect our interests. If the EU gets tough we can get tougher!!

Rule Britannia! But we'd better be quick before we end up with two huge carriers and one dinky minesweeper!

[owl sees all]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

Nah, Newlyn mate.

Newlyn and Liverpool docks. Two of the biggest tide swings in UK.

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Explain how fishing could be a much bigger part of the economy and I will consider that part moot, until then your blind guessing that it could be bigger counts for very little indeed.

Using the size of the industry now (since it has shrunk due to the CFP) defeats the object of that argument. Explain how our fishing industry won't grow once we have control over the fishing waters surrounding our island.

[simoh1490]

Er, um....we did warn earlier, £40 bill in new taxes needed: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-tax-increase-balance-budget-spring-budget-ifs-institute-fiscal-studies-a8255136.html

[Kieran00001]

34 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Yes! But we have the Royal Navy to protect our interests. If the EU gets tough we can get tougher!!

 

That would be individual countries who happen to be in the EU and they would be protected by the UN, we will not be breaking those old agreements, don't worry.

[owl sees all]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

That would be individual countries who happen to be in the EU and they would be protected by the UN, we will not be breaking those old agreements, don't worry.

Thanks K00001. That's a relief.

[soalbundy]

41 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Yes! But we have the Royal Navy to protect our interests. If the EU gets tough we can get tougher!!

like the time RN protected the British fishing fleet in Icelandic waters, didn't work out to well.

[Kieran00001]

16 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Using the size of the industry now (since it has shrunk due to the CFP) defeats the object of that argument. Explain how our fishing industry won't grow once we have control over the fishing waters surrounding our island.

 

The industry has shrunk, less boats, less fish being landed, but more money than ever because despite the shrinking size of the industry the value of the catch has increased substantially.  Without the EU we will most likely have to reduce our fish prices in order to retain our export market, in order to keep the profit at the same level we will have to land more fish whereas we could negotiate to keep in the CFP and see the year on year increases in value, thus profit, continue.

 

Now over to you, how will leaving allow our fishing industry to grow?

[Khun Han]

16 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Er, um....we did warn earlier, £40 bill in new taxes needed:  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-tax-increase-balance-budget-spring-budget-ifs-institute-fiscal-studies-a8255136.html

 

So says a think tank. Oh dear .

[simoh1490]

30 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

So says a think tank. Oh dear .

Blah blah blah, same old dismissive nothingness.

[Kieran00001]

33 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

So says a think tank. Oh dear .

 

"Just to avoid spending falling as a fraction of national income beyond 2019–20 he would need to find an additional £14 billion a year, relative to current plans, by 2022-23."

 

The IFS do not make wild speculations. 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Er, um....we did warn earlier, £40 bill in new taxes needed: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-tax-increase-balance-budget-spring-budget-ifs-institute-fiscal-studies-a8255136.html

Er, um. So the EU would have given us 100% rebate to at least pay for the extra NHS requirement then?

[stevenl]

53 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The industry has shrunk, less boats, less fish being landed, but more money than ever because despite the shrinking size of the industry the value of the catch has increased substantially.  Without the EU we will most likely have to reduce our fish prices in order to retain our export market, in order to keep the profit at the same level we will have to land more fish whereas we could negotiate to keep in the CFP and see the year on year increases in value, thus profit, continue.

 

Now over to you, how will leaving allow our fishing industry to grow?

With depleting fish stock all over the world growth is never going to be sustainable.

[CG1 Blue]

43 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

The IFS do not make wild speculations. 

Correct, but their predictions have been woefully inaccurate over the years. They may as well read tea leaves.

 

Mind you, a bad horse racing tipster will occasionally back a winner.

[jenny2017]

 

      The UK will remain.

Edited March 14, 2018 by jenny2017

[nontabury]

13 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You have no idea what you are talking about, the only reason we have others fish our waters is because we choose to fish others waters and because our fishermen have sold some of their quotas to foreign operators, neither of those changing would be good for us, we want to be able to continue to fish for the species that our customers buy and the quotas we sold are lawfully owned by the people who bought them and they have to employ British fishermen and land at British ports anyway.  As for fishing not being a major industry in your opinion, our quota is the second largest catch in the EU.  And as for throwing back catch, unless we also left the UN then we will still be a party to the same laws governing conservence of stocks, and the saving of species from extinction is not madness!

 

It’s not him that does’t know what he’s talking about, it’s you. And I say this, as I am from a family of trawlermen.

Were the hell do you get the ( wrong ) information that they have to employ British fisherman,could’t be further from the truth.

This photo is of a British fishing port, that used to be the largest fishing port in the World, now it has no boats, although some fishing boats do unload their catch in this port, unfortunately they’re all foreign boats maned by none Brits.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by nontabury

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, soalbundy said:

'The Euro will collapse' has been going on for even longer, if you read the Daily Express we are either all going to be annihilated this year,aliens,ww 3 whatever (every week) and/or the Euro has only another year to go, break up of the EU imminent, End of Merkel etc. 

Obviousely you have  not been listening to the remarks from the winners in the recent Italian elections, regarding the euro.

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I think when he said he knows "plenty of fishermen", he means he knows blokes who take their kids crabbing down the seafront in the summer.

 

 

               Brilliant. Allthough to be fair to him, he probably spoke to my wife, who went on to the beach last Sunday and collected a carrier bag of welks.

Edited March 14, 2018 by nontabury

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

like the time RN protected the British fishing fleet in Icelandic waters, didn't work out to well.

The same as today, Labour was stabbing the fishermen in the back.

Edited March 14, 2018 by nontabury

[Kieran00001]

14 minutes ago, nontabury said:

It’s not him that does’t know what he’s talking about, it’s you. And I say this, as I am from a family of trawermen.

Were the hell do you get the ( wrong ) information that they have to employ British fisherman,could’t be further from the truth.

This photo is of a British fishing port, that used to be the largest fishing port in the World, now it has no boats, although some fishing boats do unload their catch in this port, unfortunately they’re all foreign boats maned by none Brits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So...you want to say that they do not have to employ in the UK and pay UK taxes or that some of their employees are not British citizens?