Tax Residency Number

[MrDetUdom]

Hi. According to international tax treaties, etc. I am a Thai resident for tax purposes (because I live here and this is the only place where I have a residential address). However, I have no income in Thailand and do not even have a work permit for Thailand. But due to recent international tax stuff that the US has pushed through, my Hong Kong bank requires me to provide them with a tax identification number for Thailand. Does anyone know if such a thing even exists, and if so, how I can get one?

[ubonjoe]

Your can apply for tax identification number at your local Thai revenue office.

Requirements are here. http://www.rd.go.th/publish/21987.0.html

You can find your local office by clicking on the map here. http://www.rd.go.th/publish/38156.0.html

[MrDetUdom]

Thanks. So it looks like I'll have to go ahead and get a proper marriage visa before I can get a tax id number.

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, MrDetUdom said:

Thanks. So it looks like I'll have to go ahead and get a proper marriage visa before I can get a tax id number.

That is not required. You only need your passport to apply for it. All the others listed for a "L.P. 10.1 (individual)" are or statements.

 

[darrendsd]

57 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is not required. You only need your passport to apply for it. All the others listed for a "L.P. 10.1 (individual)" are or statements.

 

What is required depends on the Office you apply at

 

Just before Christmas I received a letter from my UK Bank asking me to provide them with a TIN number, this is now required for all persons who hold a UK Bank account but live overseas, it is part of the CRS, you may google this if you wish

 

Thinking it would be easy enough to obtain the TIN from my local Revenue Office in I went (Hua Hin) 

 

They asked me why I required the TIN so I showed them the letter from my bank, they said they could not issue me one for that reason, they asked if I was married, had kids or worked here, I replied no to all 3

 

They then said the only way the could issue me one was if I filed a Tax return on monies transferred from overseas in the last 12 months, realizing this was going to cost me a fortune I left and consulted my lawyer who I have known for years, long story short I payed a lot lot less than I though I would have to pay

 

They did the paperwork and I received my TIN around 3 weeks later

 

I had to get a residents certificate from Immigration, copy of my rental contract, PP copy's with departure card, numerous sheets of paperwork from my lawyer

 

I spoke to 3 friends in Hua Hin who over the years have had to apply for a Tax Number and they all told me the same thing, they had all been to the same office and could not be just issued a TIN, there had to be a reason for them issuing

 

I am aware that requirements vary from office to office but I can only post on my experience which I certainly didn't expect there to be so much involved in trying to obtain a TIN

[HampiK]

I also received my TIN (Tax Identification Number) in November. It was about a 30 minute task in Bangkok (Klongsan/Thonburi disctrict).

 

They asked why I wanted a TIN.. and I told them my swiss bank asked for one... No problem at all... 30 Minutes later I walked out with a receipt.

The TIN is actually the same as in my yellow book. 

I only gone there with my yellow book and passport which was enough. But as always in Thailand it can become more difficult on some offices...

[lungbing]

I went to the Khon Kaen office who point blank refused to give me a number because I had no income in Thailand.  And they were very rude about it too.

[ChouDoufu]

you have income.

you are earning interest on your 400/880k.

the interest is taxed at 15% if in a fixed account.

you may apply for a refund of withholding tax.

you need a TIN for that.

there's your reason.

[blackcab]

2 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

you have income.

you are earning interest on your 400/880k.

the interest is taxed at 15% if in a fixed account.

you may apply for a refund of withholding tax.

you need a TIN for that.

there's your reason.

 

That.

[norrska]

20 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Your can apply for tax identification number at your local Thai revenue office.

Requirements are here. http://www.rd.go.th/publish/21987.0.html

You can find your local office by clicking on the map here. http://www.rd.go.th/publish/38156.0.html

Does the tax ID remain valid for life. In other words, if you had one last year, but changed companies this year, or left and came back as a tourist, would the original number still be the only valid one?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, norrska said:

Does the tax ID remain valid for life. In other words, if you had one last year, but changed companies this year, or left and came back as a tourist, would the original number still be the only valid one?

Yes it would be valid for life.

[pontious]

If it is the same number as the Yellow book do you still have to go to the office.?

You already have the number.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Tell your bank that Thailand has not yet implemented CRS:

http://www.oecd.org/tax/automatic-exchange/crs-implementation-and-assistance/crs-by-jurisdiction/#T

You are therefore not required to provide it, if you had the same form I did, it's reason "C":
 

No TIN is required because the tax residence jurisdiction that issued the TIN does not require a Financial Institution to collect and report the TIN.

I told my bank this and they relented.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by rwdrwdrwd

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, pontious said:

If it is the same number as the Yellow book do you still have to go to the office.?

You would still have to apply for the TIN. The would use the ID number in your yellow book instead of creating one for it.

[darrendsd]

1 hour ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

Tell your bank that Thailand has not yet implemented CRS:

http://www.oecd.org/tax/automatic-exchange/crs-implementation-and-assistance/crs-by-jurisdiction/#T

You are therefore not required to provide it, if you had the same form I did, it's reason "C":
 

No TIN is required because the tax residence jurisdiction that issued the TIN does not require a Financial Institution to collect and report the TIN.

I told my bank this and they relented.

 

 

I considered telling them this however I read reports, some on this forum that some banks were not accepting this reason

 

Everyone's personal circumstances are different and I don't want any issues with my bank or the UK taxman

 

It's also worth pointing out that some offshore banks now require a TIN to open a account

[rwdrwdrwd]

1 hour ago, darrendsd said:

I considered telling them this however I read reports, some on this forum that some banks were not accepting this reason

 

Everyone's personal circumstances are different and I don't want any issues with my bank or the UK taxman

 

It's also worth pointing out that some offshore banks now require a TIN to open a account

Fair enough. In my case they (CitiBank) said no to me the first time I asked, was only when I pushed it that they relented - it is 100% true that Thailand does not require foreign financial institutions to collect or report TINs - they can't, they haven't implemented CRS. I'm reluctant to give any personal info to any organisation unless it's a legal requirement personally.

[darrendsd]

46 minutes ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

Fair enough. In my case they (CitiBank) said no to me the first time I asked, was only when I pushed it that they relented - it is 100% true that Thailand does not require foreign financial institutions to collect or report TINs - they can't, they haven't implemented CRS. I'm reluctant to give any personal info to any organisation unless it's a legal requirement personally.

You're right Thailand has not implemented the CRS yet, however if you do not provide your Bank with a TIN they are required to pass that you haven't on to HMRC who could possibly take a interest in where you are paying Tax (I don't mean you personally) If you don't have a TIN in Thailand they could start to ask questions if or not you are paying it in the UK

 

This is what the CRS has been designed for

Edited March 3, 2018 by darrendsd

[lungbing]

Whilst that may be true, and if it is I am OK because all my income derives from pensions and is taxed at source in the UK, I am more worried about my Bank being vindictive about me not obtaining a TIN and then closing my account because I am non resident.

[rwdrwdrwd]

 

7 hours ago, darrendsd said:

You're right Thailand has not implemented the CRS yet, however if you do not provide your Bank with a TIN they are required to pass that you haven't on to HMRC who could possibly take a interest in where you are paying Tax (I don't mean you personally) If you don't have a TIN in Thailand they could start to ask questions if or not you are paying it in the UK

 

This is what the CRS has been designed for

Oh interesting, we had a bit of to and fro about UK tax stuff as well, they asked me to fill in a "reasonable explanation" form to justify why I wasn't a resident of the UK, because they had a UK phone number on my account (it's a Skype one I use as a backup). I didn't fit any of the criteria on that form so I emailed back saying I haven't been there for 5 years, and that's enough in itself. They advised me to remove that phone number from the account and then they wouldn't need me to fill in the form.

I don't have any income the UK could possibly have a claim to, and have a p85 filed, so not bothered either way.

Edited March 3, 2018 by rwdrwdrwd

[darrendsd]

4 hours ago, lungbing said:

Whilst that may be true, and if it is I am OK because all my income derives from pensions and is taxed at source in the UK, I am more worried about my Bank being vindictive about me not obtaining a TIN and then closing my account because I am non resident.

They know you are non resident if your address on your account  is a non UK address for a certain amount of time, i'm also sure there are has always been a section on my online banking where I have to state where I am resident for Tax purposes

 

I have read 1 report, Standard Chartered I think where they have stated accounts may face limitations if the TIN was not provided

 

At this moment UK Banks are not threatening to close accounts if you do not provide a TIN, Tax is nothing to do with them, they are just legally required to obtain the TIN from account holders who live overseas

 

To be honest this is one of the reasons I obtained a TIN, so they don;t have a reason to close my account, I don't want to leave anything to chance, who knows what might happen in the future