Buying Condo in CM Advice

[banagan]

I'd like to purchase a small condo here, looking for advice on, 

 

• Legal stuff, solicitor/agent recommendations, costs?
• Time involved, I've heard10% down, then the balance a month later?
• Property inspection? Is this recommended for a condo?
• A buddy said to get a letter from the bank to prove funds came from outside Thailand. Any other things to check?

 

Cheers

 

[jonwilly]

Use a reputable lawyer.

British consulate where not allowed to make recommendation but a polite chat with the staff lead to an informal recommendation to me.

This Thai Lady lawyer is very good and has been of great help to one other freind who has used her service on a personal matter.

I paid cash 15 years ago when I purchased, Condo's where much cheaper then.

 

john

PM if you would like her details.

[HampiK]

In my experience you not need a lawyer. When you bought the Condo, then normally you pay a small about like a reservation fee. The rest will be paid on the land departement with a cashier cheque (easiest). So you have to pay at the time the title is transfered to you. And yes you have to prove that the amount of the condo or the amount they think the condo is worth is coming from outside the country (proof with a FET Foreign Exchange Form).

 

For me the most important is that you check out the condo before you buy it. Check the area and if possible talk to some of the renters/owners there what they think about this.

 

And you also will probably hear a lot of voices which tell you never to buy in Thailand.

 

[jonwilly]

PM sent.

 

john

[PingandSingh]

It has been repeated endlessly: no need for a lawyer purchasing a condo. It is throwing away money and pay for someone who will do absolutely NOTHING. There is nothing to do! The only thing he/she will do is preparing you a heavy bill. Land office will NEVER transfer a "chanote" if any mortgages, liens, bills etc are open. You will receive a clean "chanote" with your (Thai) name on it. A good agent and and the Land Office will do. You are NOT in a Western Country so not think western standards apply. Easy to understand / accept for most, very difficult for a few.

[rickthailand]

if it is a new project its  a reservation fee than you pay some at contract signing and than some installments until delivery of the condo. no need for a lawyer for the transfer. you need the fet letter to show funds come from abroad

 

rick

[Dante99]

Are the land office documents for a Condo purchase all in English?  Is the purchase contract in English?  If not you would have to be overly trusting to sign such documents without a lawyer reviewing them for you.

[simoh1490]

Not many people use a lawyer for a condo purchase but if you do, expect to pay around 15,000 baht.

 

Don't sign any documents written in Thai that you don't fully understand and the contents verified.

 

A maximum deposit of about 50,000 baht is sufficient to show good faith, 10% is way too much.

 

The deal can be closed whenever you agree with the owner, 24 hours later or a month later.

 

Agree and understand who is responsible for paying the tax on the sale, this will have to be paid in cash at the Land Office when the sale is completed - a 50/50 split of taxes is not uncommon.

 

Pay for the condo is cash or with a bankers draft at the Land Office when the property is transferred into your name, not before.

 

Property surveys are not common, you'll need to inspect it carefully.

 

Make sure the condo. is in the foreign ownership quota of 49%.

 

Make sure service charges are paid up to the date of transfer.

 

You'll need a letter from your bank or a Foreign Exchange Certificate stating that the funds you intend to use for this purchase came from outside Thailand, the Land Office will not let the sale proceed without this letter.

 

DO NOT pay any money to agents for any reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jonwilly]

I paid my Lawyer B10,000 back in 2003 when I purchased my condo.

A lawyer knows their stuff, we frangs do not know Thai law.

 

john

[simoh1490]

15 minutes ago, jonwilly said:

I paid my Lawyer B10,000 back in 2003 when I purchased my condo.

A lawyer knows their stuff, we frangs do not know Thai law.

 

john

I've used lawyers to buy two places in Thailand and they simply didn't add any value to the process. They didn't produce contracts for the deposit or the sale and didn't give any advice that wasn't obvious - one even asked if I needed them to attend the Land Office for the transfer! Whilst I agree farangs don't understand Thai law I think the Land Office does a useful job of protecting all parties so everyone needs to take their own view on this subject. The biggest risk I think is in losing a deposit that has no supportive contract behind it or in having the condo transferred into somebody else's name because the buyer signed documents they couldn't read or understand...I've seen that done with one person where the property was transferred into the lawyers name (the Land Office helped get it transferred back many years later when the deception was discovered)!

[Peterw42]

As others have said, not much need for a lawyer as there are checks and balances at the land office. Seller cannot sell unless the property is unencumbered, fees up to date, foreign quota etc. Buyer hands over the money when their name is on the title dead etc.

 

There isnt really a western style license and qualification for a real estate agent.  Most of the time they are getting a commission from the seller but often they are more like a wholesaler in a supply chain. They dont strictly work for the vendor as in the west.

Basically the person acting as the agent is more like a deal broker, wholesaler, middle man, and they will hold a deposit and "ensure" the sale goes through (helping buyer and seller) to ensure they get their margin.  Most will do a basic sales agreement in English/Thai, "received deposit of ABC for property XYZ , balance owing 123 etc.

 

The whole process can be done in a couple of days and is usually done by the agent, accompanying both parties to the land office etc. (often a 1,000 baht in an envelope to the land office, to ensure express service).

 

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

Just a thought....if you're going to use a lawyer, perhaps agree with him/her up front exactly what they're going to do, documents/contracts they will produce and whether they will attend the Land Office or not, do those things before accepting their quote.

 

Also, to add to Peter above - I would never pay a deposit to the agent, instead pay any deposit to the owner based on a signed contract and let the owner pay the agent.

[cmsally]

Ask for copies of recently paid utilities and last paid maintenance fee. Go to the condo office to check that they have no bills owed with regard to maintenance fees , water etc.

Make sure electricity billing gets changed to your name. Otherwise very good info from members above. Don't trust agents and don't sign Thai language papers unless you are fluent and can read them!

[idman]

And whatever you do go checkout your potential purchase at night, after 8 p.m. to check the noise levels in the surrounding area.  Try and chat up any of Falangs living there regarding this as too many have made the mistake of buying in an area popular with the masses.  I.E. near Maya, Himmanhaemin, Karaoke joints and places where they have outdoor concerts.  Thai love to play music at ear spliting levels and if you value a good nights sleep and quiet time in your Condo then you would be wise to follow my advice.

[scubascuba3]

Personally i would like to see the Condo accounts and supporting info to see how solid the financial position is. I wouldn't want to move into a place that has serious maintenance issues.

I wouldn't buy off plan, but that doesn't apply in this case.

Question: how common is it that buyers hand over a cheque at the land office?

[ramrod711]

How do you determine the Thai/foreigner ownership ratio, or is that even important anymore?

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

How do you determine the Thai/foreigner ownership ratio, or is that even important anymore?

It remains very important, the Juristic Person at the condo building will know.

[HampiK]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Question: how common is it that buyers hand over a cheque at the land office?

I think this is done mainly. Who wants to hand over cash?

OK, if you buy a condo for 100'000, then It could still be OK.. but if you have to handover 5 Million or something like that... who want to count the cash?

[scubascuba3]

I think this is done mainly. Who wants to hand over cash?
OK, if you buy a condo for 100'000, then It could still be OK.. but if you have to handover 5 Million or something like that... who want to count the cash?

I wasn't thinking the alternative was cash but instead bank transfer like in the modern world

[HampiK]

13 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

21 minutes ago, HampiK said:

I think this is done mainly. Who wants to hand over cash?
OK, if you buy a condo for 100'000, then It could still be OK.. but if you have to handover 5 Million or something like that... who want to count the cash?

I wasn't thinking the alternative was cash but instead bank transfer like in the modern world

The problem with a bank transfer is, that this would be needed to do at the land departement by internet banking.

Because I think you not want transfer the money before you have the title deed in your hand.

... and the other person is not willing to give you the title deep before he sees the money.

So how can this go on without a cashier cheque? It's really the easiest solution.

[scubascuba3]

The problem with a bank transfer is, that this would be needed to do at the land departement by internet banking.

Because I think you not want transfer the money before you have the title deed in your hand.

... and the other person is not willing to give you the title deep before he sees the money.

So how can this go on without a cashier cheque? It's really the easiest solution.

Yes i like the idea of a cashier cheque but i think in practice some people transfer the money and wing it hoping for the best it doesn't go wrong at the land office. I know 2 people who bought not with a cheque, and one other who will be out of the country so will be transferring the money to the agent first (which doesn't follow the advice further up)

 

[HampiK]

I would (and have) always use the cashier cheque method. but at the end I guess.. you can use other methods as well.

[PingandSingh]

I would trust a good agent far over a lawyer. Many lawyer stories for the grab. Even in this topic (#10 simoh1490) . Remember, being a lawyer is not a protected profession. One can hang a lawyer name plate on his door and that's it; you're a lawyer sic. Same goes for notary public and so many other professions.

A few posters want to give advice but don't know what the're talking about. For the good order: two important documents are needed. Buyer needs to show the Land Office a bankdocument that the funds were transferred from outside the country in to Thailand. Seller needs to show the Land Office a condo managers document that the condo is in foreign or Thai quota and that all condo fees etc. have been paid in full. Calculation of the 51/49 rule with all condo units and owner names is attached.

Land Office has a double of the chanote and if there is any claim on the property it will be attached on that chanote and it will be in their system. Land Office delivers always a clean title. The one having the chanote with his name on it, is the legal owner.

Check your name in Thai in advance (phonetic translation) and discuss this Thai name with them. Upon receiving the chanote ask any Thai to read your name on the deed for you. If a mistake, tell the Land Office and they will correct. You will need your father and mother's name as well to make sure it is indeed you who is buying / selling.

 

Thai people will always pay all in cash at the Land Office and without signing prior contract. They come to the Land Office, transfer and pay. Finish. Seen some big envelopes there.

[Dante99]

3 hours ago, PingandSingh said:

Land Office delivers always a clean title.

Not true.

[simoh1490]

Perhaps better to say that Land Office front office staff always deliver what they understand to be a clean title, it's always possible some other illegal background deal predates your transaction.

[PingandSingh]

I am talking officially registered condominium complexes. NOT talking land (with houses on it) which is, as you all know, illegal to acquire by foreigners in Thailand. I cannot recall ever hearing about the Land Office registering chanote's which were later considered being not clean titles. Please talk facts, explain and give some examples. I would like to know and learn. Thanks.

[simoh1490]

37 minutes ago, PingandSingh said:

I am talking officially registered condominium complexes. NOT talking land (with houses on it) which is, as you all know, illegal to acquire by foreigners in Thailand. I cannot recall ever hearing about the Land Office registering chanote's which were later considered being not clean titles. Please talk facts, explain and give some examples. I would like to know and learn. Thanks.

I can't cite any examples but there have been numerous cases reported over time where people have purchased land with apparently clean chanottes, only to find out much later that the land was encroached, of dubious ownership, stolen etc etc. I do not believe that the front office of any Land Office ever knowingly dealt in deception or fraud, the problem seems to be mostly where wealthy people have paid money to acquire land that was otherwise unattainable. I also don't believe that condominiums fall into this category since it's much harder to perpetrate fraud with something like condominiums which are shared ownership of the land.

[Peterw42]

20 hours ago, ramrod711 said:

How do you determine the Thai/foreigner ownership ratio, or is that even important anymore?

The seller has to provide 2 documents to the land office, one is a debt certificate to show condo fees are up to date and the other is conformation of foreign quota. The seller gets these documents from the condo office/JP

[jonwilly]

It is beyond my compression that anyone spending serious money buying a condo in a foreign country could contemplate doing so without proper legal advice.

I would be extremely suspicious of folk ofering advice not to spend an extra B10-20,000 on a say B1,000,000 + condo.

A fool and his money are soon parted

 

john

B1.5 MIll for my place cash on the nail and no paperwork or discussion, just give money and go.

Edited March 5, 2018 by jonwilly

[simoh1490]

7 minutes ago, jonwilly said:

It is beyond my compression that anyone spending serious money buying a condo in a foreign country could contemplate doing so without proper legal advice.

I would be extremely suspicious of folk off advice not to spend an extra B10-20,000 on a say B1,000,000 + condo.

A fool and his money are soon parted

 

john

B1.5 MIll for my place cash on the nail and no paperwork or discussion, just give money and go.

In 2006 I paid 6.5 mill. for a condo in CM and another 10k for a lawyer who did absolutely nothing, I sat with the seller and together we drafted a contract which we used for the sale, my lawyer didn't even look at it although he did attend the land office and watched a cheques and titles were passed across the table. The second time I had dealings on a purchase, my lawyer who is very well known in CM and I think is the same one JW uses, asked me if I really wanted her to be there for the transaction. She said, it'll cost you 10K and you know you don't need me! But because the circumstances were unusual (I was not the buyer or the seller) I asked her to attend which she did, her role was that of being seen rather than anything else, a conspicuous background heavy if you like.

Edited March 5, 2018 by simoh1490