Irish PM says U.S.-Canada not a border example for Northern Ireland

[webfact]

Irish PM says U.S.-Canada not a border example for Northern Ireland

By Padraic Halpin

 

Taoiseach (Prime Minister) of Ireland Leo Varadkar speaks at a news conference announcing that the Irish Government will hold a referendum on liberalising abortion laws at the end of May, in Dublin, Ireland, January 29, 2018. REUTERS/Clodagh Kilcoyne

 

DUBLIN (Reuters) - The border between the United States and Canada does not provide an example for how to solve the issue of the future border between Ireland and Northern Ireland after Brexit, Prime Minister Leo Varadkar said on Monday.

 

Northern Ireland is set to become the United Kingdom's only land frontier with the EU after Brexit, and Varadkar has urged British Prime Minister Theresa May to spell out her proposals to avoid a hard border returning to the island of Ireland.

 

Speaking in parliament earlier on Monday, May said that her government would look at many examples of different arrangements for customs around the rest of the world, including the border between the United States and Canada.

 

Varadkar rejected that idea out of hand, however.

 

"That is definitely not a solution that we can possibly entertain," he told a news conference after meeting his Luxembourg counterpart Xavier Bettel in Dublin.

 

"I visited the U.S. border in August and I saw an armoured border with physical infrastructure, customs posts and people in uniform with arms and dogs."

 

Varadkar reiterated that his preference was to retain the current seamless border through a new, deep relationship between the EU and U.K and was also committed to examining specific British proposals, but only if they are feasible.

 

If that is not possible, he said the "very clear draft legal provision" to implement a backstop allowing the EU to regulate Northern Ireland's trade would be triggered.

 

That contingency plan, presented last week in the EU's draft of an exit treaty for Britain, prompted angry reactions in London.

 

Bettel said that Ireland and Luxembourg needed to stand together to reduce to a minimum the negative impact from Brexit, describing it as a "game changer" for the EU that is nothing more than a damage limitation exercise.

 

He also joined Varadkar in calling on the British government for more detail on its Brexit plans.

 

"For the moment I can't tell you what I think about Theresa May's plans, I want to see them, I want to read them. For the moment I don't know what the plans are from the U.K," he said.

 

"When they were in (the EU), they wanted to have a lot of opt outs, now that they are out, they want a lot of opts ins... I believe we need solutions because the time is ticking."

 

(Reporting by Padraic Halpin; Editing by Hugh Lawson)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-03-06

[smedly]

27 minutes ago, webfact said:

Northern Ireland is set to become the United Kingdom's only land frontier with the EU after Brexit, and Varadkar has urged British Prime Minister Theresa May to spell out her proposals to avoid a hard border returning to the island of Ireland.

there has never been a hard boarder for decades

 

this man is talking complete (delete) and if he continues down road he is going to cause friction between the UK  and the  tiny insignificant Republic of Ireland who rely heavily on the UK for trade - work - healthcare - bailouts and much more

 

he really needs to button it

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

there has never been a hard boarder for decades

 

this man is talking complete (delete) and if he continues down road he is going to cause friction between the UK  and the  tiny insignificant Republic of Ireland who rely heavily on the UK for trade - work - healthcare - bailouts and much more

 

he really needs to button it

The increasingly insignificant backwater is the UK. It was the UK that spat the dummy and chose to leave the EU - it is the UK that should be responsible for finding the solution to the border issue.

[smedly]

52 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The increasingly insignificant backwater is the UK. It was the UK that spat the dummy and chose to leave the EU - it is the UK that should be responsible for finding the solution to the border issue.

from the UK side there is no issue 

 

educate yourself and read this

 

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/brexit-and-the-irish-border/

[terryw]

The Irish and the EU are trying to  make a minor customs border problem into a major issue to keep the UK in the Customs Union.

 

There is already a border in terms of VAT and Corporate tax. The EU have received a detailed report from their Swedish Commisioner detailing how cross border traffic can be monitored electronically with the minimum of physical vehicle checks.

 

If the Irish want to be difficult about this then they need to remember that they have the most to lose if the UK goes to WTO.

[RuamRudy]

57 minutes ago, smedly said:

from the UK side there is no issue 

 

educate yourself and read this

 

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/brexit-and-the-irish-border/

 

So why all the hoohaa? Why the egg-on-face a few months ago when TM's Belfast mistress rejected the proposal that the PM had already sold to the EU? Surely a simple explanation from the PM would put all the fears to rest?

 

[smedly]

11 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

So why all the hoohaa? Why the egg-on-face a few months ago when TM's Belfast mistress rejected the proposal that the PM had already sold to the EU? Surely a simple explanation from the PM would put all the fears to rest?

 

all the answers are at the link I posted, why are you asking for answers here

 

The EU dreamed it up in an effort to create as many obstructions to brexit as they could, they made it an issue not the UK and it was quite divisive and sinister

 

It could cost Ireland dearly if they continue, there will be no hard border created on the UK side and I suspect if push came to shove the Irish wouldn't agree to one either even if Brussels insisted.

[Beats56]

I don't know what US border he saw but as someone that lived in a border city between the US and Canada I really don't understand what he is going on about. Sure each side has infrastructure in the form customs booths. Never saw armed officers or dogs. Maybe they have trained dogs to sniff your car in secondary if you are suspect and get pulled in. But the border crossing in its self is orderly. Answer a few questions and show your passport and off you go. Be polite. It's when you get mouthy with the official that will be a big problem.

 

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

The increasingly insignificant backwater is the UK. It was the UK that spat the dummy and chose to leave the EU - it is the UK that should be responsible for finding the solution to the border issue.

 

It's up to all parties in a negotiation to work together on solutions. The incessant demand by various EU politicians for more information should firstly be aimed at their own negotiation team who should be briefing them on what's really going on, not what the media thinks.

 

Barnier has played this "you tell us everything so we can knock them down and re-iterate it's how we say or nothing" gamesmanship for too long.

 

I'm not in favor of Brexit and no fan of May or the current Tories, but the EU are playing the game of everything on their terms or else. Somebody should remind them no deal, means no deal - and that includes not a penny in payments.

 

Time both sides got real.

[RuamRudy]

42 minutes ago, smedly said:

all the answers are at the link I posted, why are you asking for answers here

 

The EU dreamed it up in an effort to create as many obstructions to brexit as they could, they made it an issue not the UK and it was quite divisive and sinister

 

It could cost Ireland dearly if they continue, there will be no hard border created on the UK side and I suspect if push came to shove the Irish wouldn't agree to one either even if Brussels insisted.

I am asking because if Mr Gudgin was unarguably correct, there would be no need for discussion and the matter would not dominate the headlines! It isn't that difficut, is it?

 

 

[welshissan]

10 minutes ago, Beats56 said:

I don't know what US border he saw but as someone that lived in a border city between the US and Canada I really don't understand what he is going on about. Sure each side has infrastructure in the form customs booths. Never saw armed officers or dogs. Maybe they have trained dogs to sniff your car in secondary if you are suspect and get pulled in. But the border crossing in its self is orderly. Answer a few questions and show your passport and off you go. Be polite. It's when you get mouthy with the official that will be a big problem.

 

When I used to live in Canada and used to cross the border passport, 20 US dollars was all that was required by the single US border guard.

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

"I visited the U.S. border in August and I saw an armoured border with physical infrastructure, customs posts and people in uniform with arms and dogs."

What he is talking about is an official point of international border entry. This where I'd expect legal commercial transports to traverse. We're not talking about footpaths and personal backwoods entry.

[smedly]

40 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

What he is talking about is an official point of international border entry. This where I'd expect legal commercial transports to traverse. We're not talking about footpaths and personal backwoods entry.

There have been free borders in Ireland long before the EU

 

Irish citizens have been free to travel and work in the UK for decades again long before the EU, they are free to use the UK NHS and claim benefits, this is all through treaties between the UK and the republic of ireland

 

I wish people would stop posting here unless they actually know what they are on about

[samran]

13 hours ago, Beats56 said:

I don't know what US border he saw but as someone that lived in a border city between the US and Canada I really don't understand what he is going on about. Sure each side has infrastructure in the form customs booths. Never saw armed officers or dogs. Maybe they have trained dogs to sniff your car in secondary if you are suspect and get pulled in. But the border crossing in its self is orderly. Answer a few questions and show your passport and off you go. Be polite. It's when you get mouthy with the official that will be a big problem.

 

You’ve clearly never been to the Irish border then. There is nothing to denote you are crossing from north to south. No immigration, no customs posts. The only thing that changes are the line markings on the side of the road and the fact that road signs change from imperial to metric. He is right, the US Canada border is no model for a post brexit Ireland 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by samran

[samran]

11 hours ago, smedly said:

There have been free borders in Ireland long before the EU

 

Irish citizens have been free to travel and work in the UK for decades again long before the EU, they are free to use the UK NHS and claim benefits, this is all through treaties between the UK and the republic of ireland

 

I wish people would stop posting here unless they actually know what they are on about

The UK and Ireland don’t consider each other’s citizens as ‘foreign nationals’ under their respective legislation, and combined with the Common Travel Area there are no regular passport checks between the two nations. In effect people travel freely. As you say this was the case before they joined the EU and this arrangement will survive Brexit. 

 

But that only applies to people. 

 

The market for goods will be a different story.

 

ireland will be obliged to put up some sort of customs inspection arrangement for goods which cross the EU frontier - if there is no comprehensive free trade deal (which includes a customs union) signed between the EU and the UK

 

without doing so, Ireland as well as the eu will be open to accusations from the rest of the world of flouting international trade rules by showing unfair preference, in this case, to the UK. It is a big deal.