Growing Camellias help please.

[jak2002003]

Any tips for growing ornamental Camellias here in Chiang Mai?

 

Any mistakes to avoid?

 

Do they like the hot sun, or prefer to be in the shade?  Amount of water, etc?

 

I just got 2 Camellia plants with white flowers and very heavy beautiful scented flowers.  Now need to know where to plant them and how to look after them.

 

I researched in the net... but the information is for growing them in temperate climates only.

 

Thanks.  

[drtreelove]

Not common in Chiang Mai in my experience, so local information may be hard to come by. 

 

Go with the general info. Partial shade, morning, no full noon-afternoon sun. Acidic soil pH 5.5 ok. Check pH of soil and water, if alkaline maybe use soil sulfur or a weak citrus acid solution to bring the pH down.  Well drained soil or container - moderate amount of water - subject to root rot. 

 

I've lived and landscaped in the Arizona desert where we couldn't grow camelias due to alkaline clay soil and intense heat and brutal sunlight. And also in the San Francisco Bay Area where camelias did very well with acidic soil and cool foggy climate. But camelia petal blight was ugly fungal disease of flowers. I've seen aphids on over-fertilized lush new foliage, but otherwise no common pests.  

[jak2002003]

54 minutes ago, drtreelove said:

Not common in Chiang Mai in my experience, so local information may be hard to come by. 

 

Go with the general info. Partial shade, morning, no full noon-afternoon sun. Acidic soil pH 5.5 ok. Check pH of soil and water, if alkaline maybe use soil sulfur or a weak citrus acid solution to bring the pH down.  Well drained soil or container - moderate amount of water - subject to root rot. 

 

I've lived and landscaped in the Arizona desert where we couldn't grow camelias due to alkaline clay soil and intense heat and brutal sunlight. And also in the San Francisco Bay Area where camelias did very well with acidic soil and cool foggy climate. But camelia petal blight was ugly fungal disease of flowers. I've seen aphids on over-fertilized lush new foliage, but otherwise no common pests.  

Thank you so much.

 

I have took your advise and planted them in an area that gets morning sun but up to about 11am, then its in the shade.  Also the ground is moist but not waterlogged there.. and it should hopefully be acidic as here is clay and lots of rotted leaves and bark there.  

 

Just have to see how they go now.  

 

One last question... what about pruning them?  I would like them to get to be busy dense shrubs / trees and not got straggly.  Thanks.

[drtreelove]

3 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Thank you so much.

 

I have took your advise and planted them in an area that gets morning sun but up to about 11am, then its in the shade.  Also the ground is moist but not waterlogged there.. and it should hopefully be acidic as here is clay and lots of rotted leaves and bark there.  

 

Just have to see how they go now.  

 

One last question... what about pruning them?  I would like them to get to be busy dense shrubs / trees and not got straggly.  Thanks.

Please post photos of your camellia plants and the flowers, I'd like to see what variety you have. And if I see them, I may be able to give you some tips on pruning. I've pruned hundreds of camellia shrubs over the years, just light thinning and shaping, and some for moderate crown reduction by drop-crotch pruning method. If you don't take the hedge shears to them and get radical, they are really beautiful plants in their natural form. And if you reduce heavily or shear the plants, you lose a lot of the flower buds, which is of course the beautiful flowers are their extraordinary contribution to your environment. To keep them shaped like you want, dense and not straggly, without shearing and losing the flowers: shape by drop crotch method, take the tallest or longest growth and drop back to where it originates inside the shape of the shrub. Use the type of cuts in the attached illustration. Take out the longest growth, leave the shorter growth, and you will preserve a more natural look. 

 

 

 

[jak2002003]

17 hours ago, drtreelove said:

Please post photos of your camellia plants and the flowers, I'd like to see what variety you have. And if I see them, I may be able to give you some tips on pruning. I've pruned hundreds of camellia shrubs over the years, just light thinning and shaping, and some for moderate crown reduction by drop-crotch pruning method. If you don't take the hedge shears to them and get radical, they are really beautiful plants in their natural form. And if you reduce heavily or shear the plants, you lose a lot of the flower buds, which is of course the beautiful flowers are their extraordinary contribution to your environment. To keep them shaped like you want, dense and not straggly, without shearing and losing the flowers: shape by drop crotch method, take the tallest or longest growth and drop back to where it originates inside the shape of the shrub. Use the type of cuts in the attached illustration. Take out the longest growth, leave the shorter growth, and you will preserve a more natural look. 

 

 

 

Thank you... very helpful with the picture.  Will get some pics later.  Mine have white flowers with a strong scent.  

[drtreelove]

Is this by chance the white flowered camellia you have?  C. fraterna

 

https://www.camforest.com/Camellia_fraterna_p/c-fraterna6qt.htm

 

https://www.woodlanders.net/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=1087

 

If so, it's native to southeastern China, which I believe is more of a sub-tropical climate, so it may do quite well in Chiang Mai.

Forests, thickets; (below 100-)300-1100 m. Anhui, Fujian, Henan, S Jiangsu, Jiangxi, Zhejiang

 

 

[jak2002003]

6 hours ago, drtreelove said:

Is this by chance the white flowered camellia you have?  C. fraterna

 

https://www.camforest.com/Camellia_fraterna_p/c-fraterna6qt.htm

 

https://www.woodlanders.net/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=1087

 

If so, it's native to southeastern China, which I believe is more of a sub-tropical climate, so it may do quite well in Chiang Mai.

Forests, thickets; (below 100-)300-1100 m. Anhui, Fujian, Henan, S Jiangsu, Jiangxi, Zhejiang

 

 

Thanks for the photos.

 

Here are my plants.  Looking at your pics I am not sure what kind of plant they are now as the leaves seem too shiny!!

 

 

[cooked]

On 06/03/2018 at 7:04 PM, jak2002003 said:

Thank you so much.

 

I have took your advise and planted them in an area that gets morning sun but up to about 11am, then its in the shade.  Also the ground is moist but not waterlogged there.. and it should hopefully be acidic as here is clay and lots of rotted leaves and bark there.  

 

Just have to see how they go now.  

 

One last question... what about pruning them?  I would like them to get to be busy dense shrubs / trees and not got straggly.  Thanks.

Clay is generally definitely not acidic, bits of bark etc won't change that. I have kept Camellias on clay alive in the past but they weren't happy. Maybe in pots with an acidic mixture, buy a pH meter on Lazada.

[jak2002003]

4 hours ago, cooked said:

Clay is generally definitely not acidic, bits of bark etc won't change that. I have kept Camellias on clay alive in the past but they weren't happy. Maybe in pots with an acidic mixture, buy a pH meter on Lazada.

Oh no!.  I will have to go and buy some proper soil and mix it in.  If they look sickly I will dig them up and plant them in pots better.

 

Thanks.

 

[drtreelove]

On 3/7/2018 at 11:44 PM, jak2002003 said:

Here are my plants.  Looking at your pics I am not sure what kind of plant they are now as the leaves seem too shiny!!

 

I think yours is a variety of Camellia japonica. Nice.  Shiny new growth appears normal for a heavily fertilized camellia plant. 

The soil pH meter that Cooked suggested is a good idea in this case, so you know where you stand.  And you can gradually bring the soil into a mild acidic range with organic matter lightly worked into the soil surface without tearing up roots, along with a light application of soil sulfur, and a thick layer of mulch. 

 

There are some great resources in Chiang Mai, besides the incredible Kamtieng Plant Market:

 

Limsakdakul Chemikasate is a big ag fertilizer and pesticide supplier, with two shops that I know of. The small one on Charoen Muang Rd near Bungrungrat Rd was the original, they stock a few items. But the big new one is out on the 121 ring road south of SanSai. Let me know if  you want directions.  They have Agricultural Sulfur there and I was quoted 500 baht for a 25 kilo sack. Thats way way more than you need for a couple of camellia plants, and I'm not sure if they have smaller containers.  It's one of the few ways to bring pH down, and most soils are deficient in sulfur. 

 

There is a good ag shop in MaeJo, near the talat /fresh market, across the road from MJU. I don't know if she stocks soil sulfur. But I saw sacks of Bat Guano there a year ago. I consider that a real find, some awesome stuff for organic fertilizer. 

 

Real compost (40 kilo sack for 320) from Natural Agriculture in Mae Taeng. Call and see if they have a dealer convenient for you, maybe at Kamtieng, or if not, it's a pleasant half hour drive through the country north from Mae Jo town. I have seen their operation and I encourage you to support them if you have a need for compost. Besides making the real thing, they are recycling woodwaste materials that would normally be burned. And if you live and breathe in Chiang Mai you certainly want to encourage this movement.  www.thai-organic-compost.com/

 

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by drtreelove

[cooked]

On 08/03/2018 at 10:10 AM, jak2002003 said:

Oh no!.  I will have to go and buy some proper soil and mix it in.  If they look sickly I will dig them up and plant them in pots better.

 

Thanks.

 

 

8 hours ago, drtreelove said:

I think yours is a variety of Camellia japonica. Nice.  Shiny new growth appears normal for a heavily fertilized camellia plant. 

The soil pH meter that Cooked suggested is a good idea in this case, so you know where you stand.  And you can gradually bring the soil into a mild acidic range with organic matter lightly worked into the soil surface without tearing up roots, along with a light application of soil sulfur, and a thick layer of mulch. 

 

There are some great resources in Chiang Mai, besides the incredible Kamtieng Plant Market:

 

Limsakdakul Chemikasate is a big ag fertilizer and pesticide supplier, with two shops that I know of. The small one on Charoen Muang Rd near Bungrungrat Rd was the original, they stock a few items. But the big new one is out on the 121 ring road south of SanSai. Let me know if  you want directions.  They have Agricultural Sulfur there and I was quoted 500 baht for a 25 kilo sack. Thats way way more than you need for a couple of camellia plants, and I'm not sure if they have smaller containers.  It's one of the few ways to bring pH down, and most soils are deficient in sulfur. 

 

There is a good ag shop in MaeJo, near the talat /fresh market, across the road from MJU. I don't know if she stocks soil sulfur. But I saw sacks of Bat Guano there a year ago. I consider that a real find, some awesome stuff for organic fertilizer. 

 

Real compost (40 kilo sack for 320) from Natural Agriculture in Mae Taeng. Call and see if they have a dealer convenient for you, maybe at Kamtieng, or if not, it's a pleasant half hour drive through the country north from Mae Jo town. I have seen their operation and I encourage you to support them if you have a need for compost. Besides making the real thing, they are recycling woodwaste materials that would normally be burned. And if you live and breathe in Chiang Mai you certainly want to encourage this movement.  www.thai-organic-compost.com/

 

 

This will run and run. If you're going to use chemicals instead of finding an acidic soil, then you need to ensure that the plants are able to take up iron and magnesium from the soil. We used to use Iron chelate but there are other chemicals. around.

Organic material: I have been out in pine forests growing on limestone and the pH 10cm deep showed alkaline despite a deep admixture  of pine needles. 

 

[jak2002003]

I have dug them up and planted them in pots now.  I was able to get special soil from Kamptiang market which is for acid loving plants like azaleas.  

 

When the plats get bigger I will be plant them in the ground.. which gives me ample time to work on the soil.. and also plant a lot of shade giving Palms, because at the moment its difficult to find an area with shade!!

 

Thank you everyone for you help, especially drtreelove.