Thai Xenophobia

[ColPyat]

It definitely did increase during the Taksin era, which is somewhat ironic given that the guy was willing (more than most) to take foreign money in one hand while moaning about foreigners to the masses upcountry.

To be correct, Thaksin rarely moaned about foreigners to the masses upcountry as he was smart enough to know that foreigners or xenophobia is not one of the topics that is of much interest there.

The anti foreigner rants were mainly aimed to gather support in the semi educated urban middle classes more filled with nationalistic angst, an audience that then moved over to a large part to Sondhi L., whose rants were very much filled with in the same tone, though with more wit.

[Pakboong]

There were Thai Xenophobs in 1973 and there are those of that persuasion today. The only difference is that in the 70's we took the Issan girls back to our native countries, now we set up households here. Thais from polite society hate that particular happening. They really hate it when we move in next door to them. They are busy trying to buy themselves out of our lives and we keep insisting they we have the right to rub their noses in our pleasures. Married a Thai woman in 1975, have lived in Pattaya for 5 years this particular stint. Also, I have a daughter who is half Thai who lives and works in that polite Thai society. Her mother however, is a poor Issan farm girl who made a sharp move upward many years ago but has never totally escaped the associated stigma of being from the rural poor.

[PeaceBlondie]

One quick reply. I confessed to some recent "Thai-bashing" because of the recent flurry about the Thai government making it nearly impossible to work as teachers in Thailand (and we can discuss that elsewhere), and the 30% withholding rules, and other news events. Today I decided not to be so critical of Thailand. So, instead I get raked across the ThaiVisa coals by....non-Thais. Can't win. Maybe I should limit my confessions to a booth, to the priest. I'm not even Catholic!!

Time to go eat pizza.

[ColPyat]

Time to go eat pizza.

I am very disappointed in you!

As a moderator you should be an example and eat a solid Somtam Lao, Laab Dip and Khao Niaow. And add a fistful of Prik Kee Noo as well.

Edited January 23, 2007 by ColPyat

[terry57]

One quick reply. I confessed to some recent "Thai-bashing" because of the recent flurry about the Thai government making it nearly impossible to work as teachers in Thailand (and we can discuss that elsewhere), and the 30% withholding rules, and other news events. Today I decided not to be so critical of Thailand. So, instead I get raked across the ThaiVisa coals by....non-Thais. Can't win. Maybe I should limit my confessions to a booth, to the priest. I'm not even Catholic!!

Time to go eat pizza.

thats a very good idea PB as if one throws his hat into the lions den he must stand up and be counted.

mods have no concession's on that count.

[Billfo]

I'm not going to say Thai's are or are not Xenophobic. Xenophobia is common in every country in the world. Human nature doesn't like change or things different to what they are used to. So in my opinion some Thai's will be xenophobic just like any other country.

Regularly encountered certain persistent questions and assumptions about your private affairs regarding your Thai wife, what your Thai wife's former profession might have been'

This is not unique to Thailand at all, when people here in the UK say 'Thai Bride' they say it in a way suggesting/joking that you picked her up at a bar as a bar girl, so for Thai people to sometimes question the same thing isn't Xenophobic, its just stereotyping and everyone is guilty of this.

And regarding the comment on the scene in the movie Ong Bak with the farang slapping the Thai girls, so what?? again thats just stereotyping. Just like why in a lot of hollywood movies are the bad guys usuall German, Russian, Chinese, Japanese or British? I'm british and I don't see it as Hollywood being xenophobic.

And to see clues as to why some Thai's may be xenophobic, just take a walk down Khoa San Road when the drinks are in full swing and just see how much 'respect' the majority of drunk farangs give the Thai waiters/waitreses. And wouldn't you resent a group of people who fuel the sex trade and contribute to a 'family' resort such as Pattaya in your country? I know I would.

[ColPyat]

This is not unique to Thailand at all, when people here in the UK say 'Thai Bride' they say it in a way suggesting/joking that you picked her up at a bar as a bar girl, so for Thai people to sometimes question the same thing isn't Xenophobic, its just stereotyping and everyone is guilty of this.

Maybe my English language abilities are not sufficient, but what are the major differences between judging according to negatively stereotying, and xenophic tendencies?

And yes, many westerners behave in a very xenophic (racist) manner in their home countries, and when coming here as well, but that does neither excuse nor justify similar behavior here.

[terry57]

This is not unique to Thailand at all, when people here in the UK say 'Thai Bride' they say it in a way suggesting/joking that you picked her up at a bar as a bar girl, so for Thai people to sometimes question the same thing isn't Xenophobic, its just stereotyping and everyone is guilty of this.

Maybe my English language abilities are not sufficient, but what are the major differences between judging according to negatively stereotying, and xenophic tendencies?

And yes, many westerners behave in a very xenophic (racist) manner in their home countries, and when coming here as well, but that does neither excuse nor justify similar behavior here.

can you provide me with some some real examples of xenophobia in thailand that is not present in any country on this earth.?

[Robski]

This is not unique to Thailand at all, when people here in the UK say 'Thai Bride' they say it in a way suggesting/joking that you picked her up at a bar as a bar girl, so for Thai people to sometimes question the same thing isn't Xenophobic, its just stereotyping and everyone is guilty of this.

Maybe my English language abilities are not sufficient, but what are the major differences between judging according to negatively stereotying, and xenophic tendencies?

And yes, many westerners behave in a very xenophic (racist) manner in their home countries, and when coming here as well, but that does neither excuse nor justify similar behavior here.

I think that's an argument just for the sake of it.

Yes all countries are guilty of it and I'm not sure that Thailand is number #1.

I don't see any neo-nazi groups in Thailand getting on their soapbox and stirring up racial hatred to popular support, you'd all be worried then.

It's their country, what do you all want? A love-fest everytime you open your mouth? Banners and balloons everytime you step outside your front door?

Edited January 23, 2007 by Robski

[blaze]

This is not unique to Thailand at all, when people here in the UK say 'Thai Bride' they say it in a way suggesting/joking that you picked her up at a bar as a bar girl, so for Thai people to sometimes question the same thing isn't Xenophobic, its just stereotyping and everyone is guilty of this.

Maybe my English language abilities are not sufficient, but what are the major differences between judging according to negatively stereotying, and xenophic tendencies?

And yes, many westerners behave in a very xenophic (racist) manner in their home countries, and when coming here as well, but that does neither excuse nor justify similar behavior here.

can you provide me with some some real examples of xenophobia in thailand that is not present in any country on this earth.?

Maybe a very simple one is that you can almost never (anymore) become a citizen and even if you do become a citizen, you will never be regarded as 'Thai'. Now Thailand isn't unique in that- but it's certainly not universal. That's got to be classic systemic xenophobia. Or is it?

A more 'close to home' example is one of personal experience: I live close to a kind of slum and the little kids there are really friendly. As long as I was communicating with them in Thai, I sensed from the parents, a kind of satisfaction. But when I would use English, I sensed a freezing up and the parents would immediatedly translate (eg, how are you?) to Thai. When the kid knew perfectly well how to answer in English. I sensed that the parents would just as soon I didn't talk to the kids at all if I wasn't going to do it in 'their' language.

Granted, that's a small example and may not mean anything.

Edited January 23, 2007 by blaze

[terry57]

This is not unique to Thailand at all, when people here in the UK say 'Thai Bride' they say it in a way suggesting/joking that you picked her up at a bar as a bar girl, so for Thai people to sometimes question the same thing isn't Xenophobic, its just stereotyping and everyone is guilty of this.

Maybe my English language abilities are not sufficient, but what are the major differences between judging according to negatively stereotying, and xenophic tendencies?

And yes, many westerners behave in a very xenophic (racist) manner in their home countries, and when coming here as well, but that does neither excuse nor justify similar behavior here.

I think that's an argument just for the sake of it.

Yes all countries are guilty of it and I'm not sure that Thailand is number #1.

I don't see any neo-nazi groups in Thailand getting on their soapbox and stirring up racial hatred to popular support, you'd all be worried then.

It's their country, what do you all want? A love-fest everytime you open your mouth? Banners and balloons everytime you step outside your front door?

people must realise that this is thailand, country of the thai, rules made by thai , farang are here by privilage only and must live under thai rule.

when im in country i abide by the rules, law and customs of the country.

is this why i dont notice xenophobia ?

[Billfo]

This is not unique to Thailand at all, when people here in the UK say 'Thai Bride' they say it in a way suggesting/joking that you picked her up at a bar as a bar girl, so for Thai people to sometimes question the same thing isn't Xenophobic, its just stereotyping and everyone is guilty of this.

Maybe my English language abilities are not sufficient, but what are the major differences between judging according to negatively stereotying, and xenophic tendencies?

And yes, many westerners behave in a very xenophic (racist) manner in their home countries, and when coming here as well, but that does neither excuse nor justify similar behavior here.

My understanding of the difference between Xenophobia and Sterotyping this. Sterotyping doesn't always tie into race. This is 100% true: I just went to get some drinks from the coffee machine in the office here in the UK, while getting the drinks I hear two other workers talking, one of them, a middle aged guy, is going to Pattaya tomorrow and evesdropping (very naughty of me!) I hear that he's going on his own, now straight away I think 'I wonder why he's going to Pattaya.... on his own.... hmm' needless to say I assume he's going for the bar girls, I may be wrong but thats just me stereotyping, nothing to do with race at all so in my opinion that is not xenophobic its steroetyping. So thats the difference between xenophobic & stereotyping as I understand it.

Fiar enough the actions of foriegners doesn't justify xenophobia but come on, you can't see it from their point of view? The Thais who have the disrespectful actions of foriegners in their faces every day, thats justification of their (Thai) xenophobia in my view, I'd be the same.

[ourmanflint]

What an interesting thread!

Is Thailand Xenophobic?? There can only be one answer... 100% yes... anybody not seeing that is really missing something. I have visited here many times over the past 15 years and have tried to understand what makes Thais tick, I'm not content with hanging out in bars or on the beach, I actually want to know about the society I once thought I wanted to live in permanently. There are some huge clues for everyone to see, you don't have to read or speak Thai, just look at the jobs section of any of the English language papers. A very large proportion of job offers have the words "Thai People only" or "Thai Nationals only".

Would that be considered xenophibic or racist in your home country? Would it even be legal?

Now.. are Thai people xenophobic? In general I would say no.. on a personal level they have no need to be. I think this is what El Tel and those that cannot see Thai xenophobia are seeing on a day to day basis. Good Thai people are just that, not racist not xenophobic, just happy for you to be spending your money with them.

So do ordinary Thai people show any xenophobic tendencies at all, no. Why would they? Why risk being seen to be xenophobic when your government is xenophobic enough for everyone? That seems to be the best face saving solution of all.

[Pakboong]

This is not unique to Thailand at all, when people here in the UK say 'Thai Bride' they say it in a way suggesting/joking that you picked her up at a bar as a bar girl, so for Thai people to sometimes question the same thing isn't Xenophobic, its just stereotyping and everyone is guilty of this.

Maybe my English language abilities are not sufficient, but what are the major differences between judging according to negatively stereotying, and xenophic tendencies?

And yes, many westerners behave in a very xenophic (racist) manner in their home countries, and when coming here as well, but that does neither excuse nor justify similar behavior here.

can you provide me with some some real examples of xenophobia in thailand that is not present in any country on this earth.?

Haven't been to every country but, I do not recall seeing dual pricing for national attractions anywhere but here.

[Acquiesce]

A more 'close to home' example is one of personal experience: I live close to a kind of slum and the little kids there are really friendly. As long as I was communicating with them in Thai, I sensed from the parents, a kind of satisfaction. But when I would use English, I sensed a freezing up and the parents would immediatedly translate (eg, how are you?) to Thai. When the kid knew perfectly well how to answer in English. I sensed that the parents would just as soon I didn't talk to the kids at all if I wasn't going to do it in 'their' language.

Granted, that's a small example and may not mean anything.

Amazing that you came to this conclusion from such an experience, i would have interpeted it in a different way, firstly the parent is trying to show proudly to you that they to have taken the time to learn and understand some of your language or the parent is simply employing a face saving excersise on your behalf just incase you were not understood by the child.

[terry57]

What an interesting thread!

Is Thailand Xenophobic?? There can only be one answer... 100% yes... anybody not seeing that is really missing something. I have visited here many times over the past 15 years and have tried to understand what makes Thais tick, I'm not content with hanging out in bars or on the beach, I actually want to know about the society I once thought I wanted to live in permanently. There are some huge clues for everyone to see, you don't have to read or speak Thai, just look at the jobs section of any of the English language papers. A very large proportion of job offers have the words "Thai People only" or "Thai Nationals only".

Would that be considered xenophibic or racist in your home country? Would it even be legal?

Now.. are Thai people xenophobic? In general I would say no.. on a personal level they have no need to be. I think this is what El Tel and those that cannot see Thai xenophobia are seeing on a day to day basis. Good Thai people are just that, not racist not xenophobic, just happy for you to be spending your money with them.

So do ordinary Thai people show any xenophobic tendencies at all, no. Why would they? Why risk being seen to be xenophobic when your government is xenophobic enough for everyone? That seems to be the best face saving solution of all.

i think your drawing a very long bow there flint.

as far as business wanting thai employees only, i cant see the problem, as they must employ thai nationals first.

farang must be second choise only.

be a top idea if australia tried that one.

thais must be first pick as it is there country after all and they also need a stable pay packet.

this has absolutely nothing to do with xenophobia and a very poor example.

you have to better than that mate.

[wintermute]

What an interesting thread!

Is Thailand Xenophobic?? There can only be one answer... 100% yes... anybody not seeing that is really missing something. I have visited here many times over the past 15 years and have tried to understand what makes Thais tick, I'm not content with hanging out in bars or on the beach, I actually want to know about the society I once thought I wanted to live in permanently. There are some huge clues for everyone to see, you don't have to read or speak Thai, just look at the jobs section of any of the English language papers. A very large proportion of job offers have the words "Thai People only" or "Thai Nationals only".

Err..most of the times there's a reason behind hiring thai nationals only..#1 they can pay thai nationals a lot less than an expats on a compensation package. #2 work permit and visa hassles plus the question of longevitiy in a company #3 language concerns. The paper may not say "read or speak thai" but they are in fact advertising for bilingual thais who can read and write english & thai.

Also, how many skilled professionals do you know would be willing to learn a new language, culture, and endure the visa process for a measly 30-50k under a thai run corporation? You might as well teach english..

[Billfo]

This is not unique to Thailand at all, when people here in the UK say 'Thai Bride' they say it in a way suggesting/joking that you picked her up at a bar as a bar girl, so for Thai people to sometimes question the same thing isn't Xenophobic, its just stereotyping and everyone is guilty of this.

Maybe my English language abilities are not sufficient, but what are the major differences between judging according to negatively stereotying, and xenophic tendencies?

And yes, many westerners behave in a very xenophic (racist) manner in their home countries, and when coming here as well, but that does neither excuse nor justify similar behavior here.

can you provide me with some some real examples of xenophobia in thailand that is not present in any country on this earth.?

Maybe a very simple one is that you can almost never (anymore) become a citizen and even if you do become a citizen, you will never be regarded as 'Thai'. Now Thailand isn't unique in that- but it's certainly not universal. That's got to be classic systemic xenophobia. Or is it?

A more 'close to home' example is one of personal experience: I live close to a kind of slum and the little kids there are really friendly. As long as I was communicating with them in Thai, I sensed from the parents, a kind of satisfaction. But when I would use English, I sensed a freezing up and the parents would immediatedly translate (eg, how are you?) to Thai. When the kid knew perfectly well how to answer in English. I sensed that the parents would just as soon I didn't talk to the kids at all if I wasn't going to do it in 'their' language.

Granted, that's a small example and may not mean anything.

With the regards to the whole Thai citizen thing, legally of course you should be seen as a 'Thai Citizen' but would you really expecet to be regarded as 'Thai' socially? I'm white with red hair, so if I was granted Thai Citizenship I wouldn't expect people to see me and class me as 'Thai' I'd still be classed as farang, unless I carried a large picket sign with 'I'm a Thai citizen' written on it.

And regarding the comment about the little kids, yeah thats a bit strange why the parents wouldn't want you to be talking English to them, fair enough they want their kids to speak Thai but you would have thought that learning English could only be a positive thing considering its the 'international' language.

[girlx]

do thais judge people by the color of their skin? yes, i'd say 100% of them do. they even judge each other by how dark they are. they are therefore xenophobic. secondarily, i'd say they judge people by how much wealth they have (or are perceived to have). this causes (white) foreigners to be in a strange position, because though we are at the top of the chain in both skin color and perceived wealth and thais are at least superficially welcoming and good, they do resent us for that position and the fact that we use it to buy up and run around in their country as we please. though as one person said,

while we may be referred to as lowly objects (often, the assumption being that we don't know what is being said about us) - at least we aren't spat at on the street.

hmmm. yet?

i agree with the fact that:

We are talking about a serious decline in attitudes towards we westerners - this coupled with rank stupidity of the education system and the total ignorance of young people about the outside world.

&

"Education" is a flattery actually, more like a brain-washing

... I think lack of education and wordly experience definitely contributes to this. and the fact that the leaders are promoting fervent nationalism.

My take: People get scared when strange people enter their territory. Strange people help the local economy, are kind and trusting, all's ok. Mess up, and the boot comes out.

while this is true some of the time, a lot of the time in thailand if you are kind and trusting you will get raped for all you are worth and that is a fact. it can apply anywhere but i never saw it at home to this extent. thais have different values about honesty and a more subtle form of manipulation (with a smile).

of course its not our country and we are only visitors here.

yes we are, but that does not mean we can not help people to change narrow-minded perspectives. it gets even worse if you were black, indian, burmese, from a hill tribe, etc. etc. so most of us can consider ourselves lucky. but the treatment that burmese and hill tribe people receive in thailand necessitates a total re-education of their thinking as it violates several human rights.

[kmart]

Thais are "educated" to be very nationalistic. "Education" is a flattery actually, more like a brain-washing, tbh. Sometimes this spills over into xenophobia. Its not long that rented Isarn mobs were sent into the Bangkok Universities, murdering their own Thai students suspected of Communism, so nobody will convince me otherwise.

I speak and write fluent Thai, so I also understand what people are saying in my proximity, and I'm usually referred to as "it" or "muhn" in Thai, unless they twig that I fully understand.

This is not usually a problem, the educated Thais are a lot better in this respect, but also a lot better at hiding their true feelings also.

Thaksin was a clever guy in fostering ultra-nationalism here. Its the only thing Thais ever agree on. Any scoundrel can wrap themselves in the flag here, and legions of up-country folk will jump on the band wagon in support. Nationalism definitely got worse after he came to power, and the rights of foreigners living here took a plunge, just as he bailed out to his newly-bought palace in London. Ironic, no?

When everything is going smoothly here, its a great place to live, but when problems (legal or otherwise) occur and / or accountability is required, then you will always be 2nd best. The system will not support you here. It is geared to do the opposite.

excuse me you are USUALLY referred to as mun. where the hel_l do you hang out? my thai skills are nowhere near as great yours, but i could spot it if if i was being called mun on a daily basis.

tbh i find your posts are as bigoted and rude as you claim thais to be.

Thanks for your unsolicited opinion. Do you actually live here or just come here for your jollies?

[terry57]

What an interesting thread!

Is Thailand Xenophobic?? There can only be one answer... 100% yes... anybody not seeing that is really missing something. I have visited here many times over the past 15 years and have tried to understand what makes Thais tick, I'm not content with hanging out in bars or on the beach, I actually want to know about the society I once thought I wanted to live in permanently. There are some huge clues for everyone to see, you don't have to read or speak Thai, just look at the jobs section of any of the English language papers. A very large proportion of job offers have the words "Thai People only" or "Thai Nationals only".

Err..most of the times there's a reason behind hiring thai nationals only..#1 they can pay thai nationals a lot less than an expats on a compensation package. #2 work permit and visa hassles plus the question of longevitiy in a company #3 language concerns. The paper may not say "read or speak thai" but they are in fact advertising for bilingual thais who can read and write english & thai.

Also, how many skilled professionals do you know would be willing to learn a new language, culture, and endure the visa process for a measly 30-50k under a thai run corporation? You might as well teach english..

besides the point.

dont you think thai nationals must be employed before considering a farang?

[Acquiesce]

as far as business wanting thai employees only, i cant see the problem, as they must employ thai nationals first.

farang must be second choise only.

be a top idea if australia tried that one.

thais must be first pick as it is there country after all and they also need a stable pay packet.

this has absolutely nothing to do with xenophobia and a very poor example.

you have to better than that mate.

This is a huge problem for Thailand and is hindering it's evolution in to a truely developed nation.

I'm pleased the country i came from does not think this way, there the best person for the job will get the job, that's simple common sence.

Maybe that's one of the reasons the new airport has so many problems.

Also for anyone who thinks Thai people are not xenophobic try spending a little time here and see how much resentment there is for Singapore and it's people.

The way they look down on Cambodia, laos and Myanmar could also be seen as xenophobia though i would call it just plain racist or maybe simply a lack of education.

To be honest though i have found most Thai people to be willing to extend a hand of friendship to persons of different cultural backgrounds even though they are slow to teach children to respect different cultures.

People are people after all.

[wintermute]

besides the point.

dont you think thai nationals must be employed before considering a farang?

I believe in a free market where a corporation can pick and choose who they can hire according to merit as long as the foreigner is here legally it shouldn't matter. According to the government it shouldn't matter either because if a foreigner is here legally he's also bound by the country's laws to pay taxes and also contributes to the economy. Restrictions of foreign workers in skilled positions tends to lead to stagnation, just about every country understands this however Thailand is working hard to unlearn that.

[samtam]

Well as the original poster of this thread I thought there might be some hot air to vent on this subject. And thus it ever was. The type of statement that stirred me into writing the thread in the first place is neatly encapsulated in this one, which I have seen in various forms in other threads....

(so I'm not singling it out for any other purpose, as the overall post is quite reasoned)....

Oh, come on, Thailand is clearly xenophobic!

I have travelled all over the world, and Thailand is by far the most xenophobic country I know.

The odd thing is that their xenophobia has served to preserve a very unique and interesting culture, one that many including me find quite fascinating.

So you take the good with the bad. But you have to understand things could get much worse and they could boot us all out. I sure hope not, but it isn't our country.

I'm just not clear why such a statement "things could get much worse and they could boot us all out" is made. I think the Thai's reaction to foreigners is actually quite tame, and despite having a realistic view on it, by and large Thais are either at worst indifferent to foreigners, or they express distaste when it's perfectly legitimate in any culture to do it, whoever or wherever you are. I think I mostly agree with the sentiments expressed by a number of people that you "reap what you sow", in the sense that if you're ghastly to anyone, they're likely to be pretty intolerant of you. As we know however, Thais have an incredibly tolerant view of people up to a point, beyond which they will explode in a far deadlier fashion, (as with many Asian cultures, such as the Japanese for example).

So my more refined question is why a number of people should think that a situation may arise when foreigners will be expelled? Surely the world is too "global", and Thailand too immersed in that culture; it's not North Korea, it's not Myanmar, both of whom I'm sure would rather be fully paid up members of the world of nations than their current ignominity of pariah states.

[terry57]

besides the point.

dont you think thai nationals must be employed before considering a farang?

I believe in a free market where a corporation can pick and choose who they can hire according to merit as long as the foreigner is here legally it shouldn't matter. According to the government it shouldn't matter either because if a foreigner is here legally he's also bound by the country's laws to pay taxes and also contributes to the economy. Restrictions of foreign workers in skilled positions tends to lead to stagnation, just about every country understands this however Thailand is working hard to unlearn that.

i take your point,

but i just cant go with the notion of employing an expat when a local can do the job.

if a local cant do the job then employ the expat as i have no problem with that.

it must be locals first and farang second.

you cant argue with that one.

this concerns all country's and not just los.

[terry57]

as far as business wanting thai employees only, i cant see the problem, as they must employ thai nationals first.

farang must be second choise only.

be a top idea if australia tried that one.

thais must be first pick as it is there country after all and they also need a stable pay packet.

this has absolutely nothing to do with xenophobia and a very poor example.

you have to better than that mate.

This is a huge problem for Thailand and is hindering it's evolution in to a truely developed nation.

I'm pleased the country i came from does not think this way, there the best person for the job will get the job, that's simple common sence.

Maybe that's one of the reasons the new airport has so many problems.

Also for anyone who thinks Thai people are not xenophobic try spending a little time here and see how much resentment there is for Singapore and it's people.

The way they look down on Cambodia, laos and Myanmar could also be seen as xenophobia though i would call it just plain racist or maybe simply a lack of education.

To be honest though i have found most Thai people to be willing to extend a hand of friendship to persons of different cultural backgrounds even though they are slow to teach children to respect different cultures.

People are people after all.

mate,

every country has its demons,

look at australia and the treatment of its aboriginals and other minority groups, but i must say they get very well looked after here compared to asian country's.

look at england with its massive immigration problems.

look at america and there indians.

thailand is tame compared to these places especially where us farang are concerned.

[longway]

This is not unique to Thailand at all, when people here in the UK say 'Thai Bride' they say it in a way suggesting/joking that you picked her up at a bar as a bar girl, so for Thai people to sometimes question the same thing isn't Xenophobic, its just stereotyping and everyone is guilty of this.

Maybe my English language abilities are not sufficient, but what are the major differences between judging according to negatively stereotying, and xenophic tendencies?

And yes, many westerners behave in a very xenophic (racist) manner in their home countries, and when coming here as well, but that does neither excuse nor justify similar behavior here.

can you provide me with some some real examples of xenophobia in thailand that is not present in any country on this earth.?

Haven't been to every country but, I do not recall seeing dual pricing for national attractions anywhere but here.

they are very common around the world. india for example there are different charges for foregners and indian nationals at many attractions (tbh you just have to look indian).

there are even different dometic airfares for residents and foreigners in india

( again just looking indian is enough)

imho thailands racism and xenophobia isnt nearly as bad as a great many countries around the world.

Restrictions of foreign workers in skilled positions tends to lead to stagnation, just about every country understands this however Thailand is working hard to unlearn that.[\quote]

<deleted>. australia restricts the % of non nationals that can work offshore in its territorial waters. norway enforces regulations so stringent that many non norwegian nationals cannot work in the offshore industry.

the usa vets the issue of work visas there is no influx of skilled foreigners that doing jobs that us nationals can fulfil themselves.

in fact its probably just the opposte of what you claim, every country in the world retricts the number of foreigner workers in some way or another.

Thanks for your unsolicited opinion. Do you actually live here or just come here for your jollies? cool.gif[\quote]

i live here. and the silly opinions u post are asked for?

[tuky]

There are areas that require "other nationals" to supervise activites due to cultural idiosynchrosies.

This can be taken as cultural heirarchy, xenophobia (from the nations), racism etc etc. But in fact there does come a time when a different perspective is needed by the local population, whether they know it or not.

With regards to safety, are you being "high and mighty" by insisting on an earthed electrical system for your house? or are you being culturally insensative?

If you were to criticise the local practise would you be anti thai? (thai bashing).

Would you feel threatened by a Muslim in Australia suggesting (in a very poor, vulgar, hateful way) that Australian woman are asking to be raped because they dress to suit the climate? Or perhaps as stated above "other nationals" should supervise activities due to cultural idiosynchrosies. It is a no win situation.

I think this whole thread has been blown out of proportion, and those that are getting their backs up are wasting their time. This is a topic that will never be answered because there is no answer.

All we can do is live with what we are given, try to make the most....learn from what we find in life. If a nation, a culture, a religion cannot do this then should it bother you? No, just live your life.

And leave it from TV, as we are not here to provoke we are here to discuss.

On that note there are a few members posting in this thread that are a hairs bredth away from...well you guys know who you are and what awaits.

I propose we close it.

[terry57]

There are areas that require "other nationals" to supervise activites due to cultural idiosynchrosies.

This can be taken as cultural heirarchy, xenophobia (from the nations), racism etc etc. But in fact there does come a time when a different perspective is needed by the local population, whether they know it or not.

With regards to safety, are you being "high and mighty" by insisting on an earthed electrical system for your house? or are you being culturally insensative?

If you were to criticise the local practise would you be anti thai? (thai bashing).

Would you feel threatened by a Muslim in Australia suggesting (in a very poor, vulgar, hateful way) that Australian woman are asking to be raped because they dress to suit the climate? Or perhaps as stated above "other nationals" should supervise activities due to cultural idiosynchrosies. It is a no win situation.

I think this whole thread has been blown out of proportion, and those that are getting their backs up are wasting their time. This is a topic that will never be answered because there is no answer.

All we can do is live with what we are given, try to make the most....learn from what we find in life. If a nation, a culture, a religion cannot do this then should it bother you? No, just live your life.

And leave it from TV, as we are not here to provoke we are here to discuss.

On that note there are a few members posting in this thread that are a hairs bredth away from...well you guys know who you are and what awaits.

I propose we close it.

yes, thats a top idea tucky,

and dont you think ive been a very respecful punter in this discussion?

i havn't spat the dummy or flared any one.

cricky's mate,

im getting better arn't i ?

give it the flick mate.

cheers.

[steveromagnino]

a few points

- you have the right to become a citizen if you meet the criteria (and few can be bothered to do so) - similar to you have the right to go visit USA if you meet the criteria from Thialand (and few do) NOT xenophobia

- parents probably think their kids cannot understand/mental block - xenophobia?! I wonder

- dual pricing: economic reasons exist for this and Thailand is not the only place that has this sort of policy (USA, NZ both have some elements of double pricing/infinite pricing, but nothing like here) but it certainly would seem to be evidence of stereotyping that foreigners (note, foreigners NOT farang) have money and Thai people don't - I agree with this one, shouldn't be double pricing; they should just price in at market rates, and too bad if half of rural Thailand can then not afford it; they should be working not holidaying

- hiring Thai nationals is a whole lot easier; I can assure you that in an english ad if you don't write this, then you get tons of english teachers and similar applying who will need work permits; it is perfectly legal and acceptable to dictate this as a requirement and in USA it would be something like 'must have a green card' same same NOT xenophobia

- resentment of Singapore? Sorry, maybe as a kneejerk to Singawatra deal ,which just stinks (Singapore govt should have known better) and behaviour since, but other than that, nice place to visit and that's about it

- totally agree with attitudes towards Cambodians and Laotians and Burmese, although this is almost exactly the same as USA attitudes towards Mexico with a fair bit more tolerance; yet to see large numbers of people complaining about them coming here and stealing our jobs rhetoric; maybe a bit, but not in a threatened type way

- not giving foreigners rights to own land; restrictions on company ownership etc - this I think is the officlal xenophobia usually supported by the Thai people who have the ability to compete, and choose to tilt the playing field for their own benefit (e.g. all the anti hyper market stuff is mostly the Thai retailers assocation, who are....pretty much CP and 7:11 type firms, i.e. the people running the small mom pop stores out of business). Bad for Thailand, and xenophobic. About on par with America having a hissy fit when some Middle eastern firm bought that port last year, or Americans talking about outsourcing taking their jobs.

- cultural dept worrying about influx of western morals ruining Thailand - this is xenophobia

- treatment of Indians and dark skinned people here is not good at all; those people have cause to complain; IMHO white people for the most part, get it good here, same as most other places

- never being treated as a 'citizen'; the white people I know who carry Thai passports often get a little bit of odd treatment at first and then welcomed when they show they meet the standards of being a Thai citizen that are often expected - Thai manners, Thai language, that sort of thing. If you cannot speak the language and don't show Thai manners, you will never be treated as a Thai. Even if you do, perhaps you will not. Ditto that for NZ, where my Thai side of the family are also regularly asked somewhat impolitely to consider returning to their previous country, despite speaking perfect Kiwi accent english, contributing tax in the top 5% of the country and various other acheivements far beyond the reach of most New Zealanders. Apparently, to some there, you ahve to be white or Maori to be a real NZer - xenophobia there when it happens, an xenophobia here when it happens. If you have a Thai passport (not PR, not a WP, CITIZENSHIP) then let us know how you get treated

Some of the quaint ideas that particularly the rural people have about foreigners can be very stereotyped; most of the xenophobia to me happens at an officialdom level and policy level; I am sorry but I just don't see any real difference between Thailand and 'white countries' in xenophobia and get it FAR better here; but then again...in a white country that a person grew up, are they really giong to be objective in seeing or identifying xenophobia?

Edited January 23, 2007 by steveromagnino