Thai Xenophobia

[terry57]

but i must say that NOT all the thai are like this in pattaya and one must expect it when they are a bit dark.

That's an obstuse remark.

"a bit dark" ? What are you on about, dude?

yes, i better make my self clear as the next thing you know the nay sayers will be calling me xenophobic.

made 2 cock ups there mate as the op was talking about phuket, and i should of said, " the people could possibly be offended."

being politically correct is a pain in the arse ain't it.

[PeaceBlondie]

Congratulations to guesthouse for an excellent post.

Some international NGO actually measures xenophobia, and it ranks countries. According to the rumours, Thailand ranked FIRST - #1 in the world - for xenophobia, or for dislike of foreigners,.

I'm guilty of Thai-bashing, so I'll try to be better. The Thais have a nice, isolated country that was never colonized (by Western empires, anyway). They have their own language, alphabet, kingdom, culture, etc., and they think it works just fine, more or less. They seem very reluctant to take advice from foreigners. They wish to make their own mistakes, repeatedly, pretending they aren't mistakes. Fine. As Sir Paul wrote, "Let It Be." I'd be hypocritical to suggest that Thailand become a crude copy of my own faulty homeland. My first speech to Thai teachers was, "You don't want your students to act like Americans."

Thais are very xenophobic, and they like it that way. Thaksin and TRT whipped up their fear of foreigners, and it's worse now. Events of recent months seem to be making it even worse.

But maybe, just maybe, Thais know what's best for Thais.

[GuestHouse]

And am I the only one who spotted that scene in the Thai Block Buster 'Ong-Bak'.

He comes to the aid of a Thai women who is being treated disrespectedly by a foreigner.

The foreigner slaps a couple of skinny little Thai guys about when Ong-Bak appears to beat the foreigner senseless.

That scene did not get put in the movie for no reason.

[IMA_FARANG]

I am surprised to read (from farangs I presume) in a number of threads the suggestion that a serious anti foreigner feeling may emerge in Thailand. I suspect this view is based largely on the back of the various contentious pieces of legislation or proposed legislation, (Withholding Tax, Foreign Business Act, Visa Regulations etc), so it may be purely an emotional reaction.

I am not aware of there ever having been such a serious problem of xenophobia in Thailand in recent history, but I am no expert. I do not wear rose-tinted glasses either, so I am of course aware that some Thais quite legitimately resent foreigners whom they equate with having greater wealth that enables them to enjoy a more prosperous lifestyle.

My question is: is xenophobia evident already, or is it likely?

I've been coming to Thailand at least twice a year since 1977 and there has definately been many changes since that time. One of them is the attitute towards foriegners in Thailand.

If I recall correctly there was a period in which everything "foriegn" was taken as better than Thai. The music, goods, or products, and so on that were foriegn were always preferred to any Thai product. Farang was always better.

Then there was a rebound from the uncritical choice of anything "foriegn" back toward more "Thai" values.

I don't see it as Xenophobia or even a dislike of things foriegn. It is more a desire to feel that being "Thai" is not being second-class or "third-world"

A lot of "Farangs" don't help the situation with their constant belittling of Thai customs and values. You know the "they don't do it that way in the U.K/U.S.A/Australia/Europe" type of expats.

If I went to London and spent all my time being critical of the Brits, how long would it be before somebody took a punch at me?

Why do foriegners expect to come to Thailand and expect to be able to always be critical of Thailand before some Thai takes offense at the remarks he/she makes?

Thais are proud of their country and their history too.

If you try to meet the Thai people on a one-to-one basis they respond to you as they are treated.

Edited January 23, 2007 by IMA_FARANG

[terry57]

Congratulations to guesthouse for an excellent post.

Some international NGO actually measures xenophobia, and it ranks countries. According to the rumours, Thailand ranked FIRST - #1 in the world - for xenophobia, or for dislike of foreigners,.

I'm guilty of Thai-bashing, so I'll try to be better. The Thais have a nice, isolated country that was never colonized (by Western empires, anyway). They have their own language, alphabet, kingdom, culture, etc., and they think it works just fine, more or less. They seem very reluctant to take advice from foreigners. They wish to make their own mistakes, repeatedly, pretending they aren't mistakes. Fine. As Sir Paul wrote, "Let It Be." I'd be hypocritical to suggest that Thailand become a crude copy of my own faulty homeland. My first speech to Thai teachers was, "You don't want your students to act like Americans."

Thais are very xenophobic, and they like it that way. Thaksin and TRT whipped up their fear of foreigners, and it's worse now. Events of recent months seem to be making it even worse.

But maybe, just maybe, Thais know what's best for Thais.

peaceblond,

can you please tell me why you continue to live in a country that you continue to bash.?

i just dont understand why people stay in thailand if they are not happy with the people and the country.

cant you go home if you dislike it here so much.?

its insanity to me.

[Jet Gorgon]

Congratulations to guesthouse for an excellent post.

Some international NGO actually measures xenophobia, and it ranks countries. According to the rumours, Thailand ranked FIRST - #1 in the world - for xenophobia, or for dislike of foreigners,.

I'm guilty of Thai-bashing, so I'll try to be better. The Thais have a nice, isolated country that was never colonized (by Western empires, anyway). They have their own language, alphabet, kingdom, culture, etc., and they think it works just fine, more or less. They seem very reluctant to take advice from foreigners. They wish to make their own mistakes, repeatedly, pretending they aren't mistakes. Fine. As Sir Paul wrote, "Let It Be." I'd be hypocritical to suggest that Thailand become a crude copy of my own faulty homeland. My first speech to Thai teachers was, "You don't want your students to act like Americans."

Thais are very xenophobic, and they like it that way. Thaksin and TRT whipped up their fear of foreigners, and it's worse now. Events of recent months seem to be making it even worse.

But maybe, just maybe, Thais know what's best for Thais.

As you are a TV MOD and resident in Thailand, I am disappointed with your statement.

[terry57]

Congratulations to guesthouse for an excellent post.

Some international NGO actually measures xenophobia, and it ranks countries. According to the rumours, Thailand ranked FIRST - #1 in the world - for xenophobia, or for dislike of foreigners,.

I'm guilty of Thai-bashing, so I'll try to be better. The Thais have a nice, isolated country that was never colonized (by Western empires, anyway). They have their own language, alphabet, kingdom, culture, etc., and they think it works just fine, more or less. They seem very reluctant to take advice from foreigners. They wish to make their own mistakes, repeatedly, pretending they aren't mistakes. Fine. As Sir Paul wrote, "Let It Be." I'd be hypocritical to suggest that Thailand become a crude copy of my own faulty homeland. My first speech to Thai teachers was, "You don't want your students to act like Americans."

Thais are very xenophobic, and they like it that way. Thaksin and TRT whipped up their fear of foreigners, and it's worse now. Events of recent months seem to be making it even worse.

But maybe, just maybe, Thais know what's best for Thais.

As you are a TV MOD and resident in Thailand, I am disappointed with your statement.

myself also,

and how can a mod think like this and why even be in this country. ?

[kmart]

Thais are "educated" to be very nationalistic. "Education" is a flattery actually, more like a brain-washing, tbh. Sometimes this spills over into xenophobia. Its not long that rented Isarn mobs were sent into the Bangkok Universities, murdering their own Thai students suspected of Communism, so nobody will convince me otherwise.

I speak and write fluent Thai, so I also understand what people are saying in my proximity, and I'm usually referred to as "it" or "muhn" in Thai, unless they twig that I fully understand.

This is not usually a problem, the educated Thais are a lot better in this respect, but also a lot better at hiding their true feelings also.

Thaksin was a clever guy in fostering ultra-nationalism here. Its the only thing Thais ever agree on. Any scoundrel can wrap themselves in the flag here, and legions of up-country folk will jump on the band wagon in support. Nationalism definitely got worse after he came to power, and the rights of foreigners living here took a plunge, just as he bailed out to his newly-bought palace in London. Ironic, no?

When everything is going smoothly here, its a great place to live, but when problems (legal or otherwise) occur and / or accountability is required, then you will always be 2nd best. The system will not support you here. It is geared to do the opposite.

[ColPyat]

And am I the only one who spotted that scene in the Thai Block Buster 'Ong-Bak'.

No, you are not the only one.

I do not particularly like Ong Bak at all, and it's not just the lack of a coherent plot.

[ColPyat]

As you are a TV MOD and resident in Thailand, I am disappointed with your statement.

Why?

Does one have to be a sycophantic more-Thai-than-the-Thais farang in order to qualify as a "TV MOD"?

If you care to read some of the criticism of recent changes in business law by Thai academics you can see that accusations of xenophobia do not only come from disgruntled farang misfits here, and that there are many educated and intelligent Thais that do see these developements as well with some concern.

[Jingthing]

Oh, come on, Thailand is clearly xenophobic!

I have travelled all over the world, and Thailand is by far the most xenophobic country I know.

The odd thing is that their xenophobia has served to preserve a very unique and interesting culture, one that many including me find quite fascinating.

So you take the good with the bad. But you have to understand things could get much worse and they could boot us all out. I sure hope not, but it isn't our country.

[longway]

Congratulations to guesthouse for an excellent post.

Some international NGO actually measures xenophobia, and it ranks countries. According to the rumours, Thailand ranked FIRST - #1 in the world - for xenophobia, or for dislike of foreigners,.

I'm guilty of Thai-bashing, so I'll try to be better. The Thais have a nice, isolated country that was never colonized (by Western empires, anyway). They have their own language, alphabet, kingdom, culture, etc., and they think it works just fine, more or less. They seem very reluctant to take advice from foreigners. They wish to make their own mistakes, repeatedly, pretending they aren't mistakes. Fine. As Sir Paul wrote, "Let It Be." I'd be hypocritical to suggest that Thailand become a crude copy of my own faulty homeland. My first speech to Thai teachers was, "You don't want your students to act like Americans."

Thais are very xenophobic, and they like it that way. Thaksin and TRT whipped up their fear of foreigners, and it's worse now. Events of recent months seem to be making it even worse.

But maybe, just maybe, Thais know what's best for Thais.

hang on there. i certainly go along with the sentiment there is xenophobia and racism in thailand. but number 1 in the world....

so its number one in a list including the whole middle east, iran, china, japan, russia, and pretty much the whole of eastern europe in general, australia, NZ, norway, austria, israel, pakistan, india, vast swathes of africa. most of western europe is still pretty xenophobic. in fact i find it difficult to think of a country that doesnt mistrust foreigners.

the usa is an example of a melting pot of sorts, but if you here how people in the south speak about the hispanic influx, you wouldnt have thought so.

i dont know how xenophobic thailand it is, i have certainly felt it on occasion but it doesnt feel excessive yet, ceratinly not number 1 in the world anyway.

[grapetable]

I am not sure about this, but its my perception..........if Thai's are so xenophobic etc how come many of them would immigrate if they could to falanglands? There is an apparent discontinuity here and perhaps the two issues are not related? Is it that money comes first then nationalism?

My two cents...................

And MrT57 I too have not encountered any of this xenophobia but then again my Thai language skills are not sharp.

[tutsiwarrior]

thais ain't no different than most folks, especially other asians, when confronted with a manner and attitude that they can't understand...you choose to live in Thailand then get used to being treated differently. I don't go out at night unless with an entourage as a white man alone sitting quietly drinking a beer is a target for drunken thai men, even in a sleepy town like mine. If there is trouble and you choose to walk away or defend yourself there is trouble either way and the white man will never win...

I hate to think what will happen when another 1997 meltdown happens...some one has to be blamed; falang genocide?

[grapetable]

I have just stated that I have not encountered it but perhaps I am just not aware enough. Many are saying LOS is xenophobic.........ok maybe .....can you all give examples of your experiences please.............maybe Im missing a Thai experience?

[longway]

Thais are "educated" to be very nationalistic. "Education" is a flattery actually, more like a brain-washing, tbh. Sometimes this spills over into xenophobia. Its not long that rented Isarn mobs were sent into the Bangkok Universities, murdering their own Thai students suspected of Communism, so nobody will convince me otherwise.

I speak and write fluent Thai, so I also understand what people are saying in my proximity, and I'm usually referred to as "it" or "muhn" in Thai, unless they twig that I fully understand.

This is not usually a problem, the educated Thais are a lot better in this respect, but also a lot better at hiding their true feelings also.

Thaksin was a clever guy in fostering ultra-nationalism here. Its the only thing Thais ever agree on. Any scoundrel can wrap themselves in the flag here, and legions of up-country folk will jump on the band wagon in support. Nationalism definitely got worse after he came to power, and the rights of foreigners living here took a plunge, just as he bailed out to his newly-bought palace in London. Ironic, no?

When everything is going smoothly here, its a great place to live, but when problems (legal or otherwise) occur and / or accountability is required, then you will always be 2nd best. The system will not support you here. It is geared to do the opposite.

excuse me you are USUALLY referred to as mun. where the hel_l do you hang out? my thai skills are nowhere near as great yours, but i could spot it if if i was being called mun on a daily basis.

tbh i find your posts are as bigoted and rude as you claim thais to be.

[terry57]

As you are a TV MOD and resident in Thailand, I am disappointed with your statement.

Why?

Does one have to be a sycophantic more-Thai-than-the-Thais farang in order to qualify as a "TV MOD"?

If you care to read some of the criticism of recent changes in business law by Thai academics you can see that accusations of xenophobia do not only come from disgruntled farang misfits here, and that there are many educated and intelligent Thais that do see these developements as well with some concern.

well, its most probably the vocal minority who are getting heard and not the majority.

id love to see a referendum called on this subject.

considering this forum is thai related i'd expect to have the moderation team sitting squarely in the middle.

whats the point of moderating on a forum if you are biased in one direction?

[PeaceBlondie]

As you are a TV MOD and resident in Thailand, I am disappointed with your statement.

myself also,

and how can a mod think like this and why even be in this country. ?

If you'll check the Forum Rules, they do not require that all statements by moderators have to be 100% pro-Thailand.

[terry57]

Oh, come on, Thailand is clearly xenophobic!

I have travelled all over the world, and Thailand is by far the most xenophobic country I know.

The odd thing is that their xenophobia has served to preserve a very unique and interesting culture, one that many including me find quite fascinating.

So you take the good with the bad. But you have to understand things could get much worse and they could boot us all out. I sure hope not, but it isn't our country.

of course its not our country and we are only visitors here.

its a privilage they afford us to be able to live here and more people would be well served to remember this.

its silly to even think they would kick us out as tourism is a ingrained part of thailand contributing to many thai lives and has been for many years.

play by there rules or go home.

[Boo]

why should a mod be pro thai? As long as the forum rules are adhered to then it makes no difference.

So get over it folks, discussion of moderations issues are against said forum rules.

[Jet Gorgon]

Oh, Dear. Let's not get into fistycuffs here. Um, what was the subject of this thread and let us continue amicably, sort of...

[sbk]

I do not see anything in PB's statement bashing Thais. Even moderators have a right to an opinion.

I have stated mine, that Thai's are just as xenophobic as the next person. Anyone who can't see it is either blinkered, seeing life through rose-colored glasses, or more obviously, can't speak Thai. Does that make me a Thai basher as well?

The fact of the matter is that Thai people are human, just like everyone else. And, coming from a fairly homogeneous society, tend to be fearful of those different and from fear springs dislike and distrust.

And as for the ridiculous statement of "if you don't like it then go home" please, lets not bring that old chestnut out, it is just as invalid now as it has been in the past.

[wintermute]

Thais may be xenophobic but I don't think it's as nasty or dangerous as western countries. I know for a fact that in some places in the U.S. asians would have to tread very carefully to avoid physical confrontation or open hostility. As far as nationalism goes I think Thai nationalism is about on par with the U.S. They like to fly flags a lot and talk about how great they are..i'm not being anti-american but it's true that it's very similar. The only difference is that the U.S. can usually back it up with economic, military, and political power whereas Thailand is just a big puffed up paper tiger. Another difference is that Thailand and Thai people in general have an unfailing and uncanny ability at not engaging in self criticism. Something that's usually viewed as incompetence or a big social flaw in other countries is excused as being "thai" in Thailand. That's fine however recently Thailand has been engaging other nations in less than polite dialogue so to me it signals a wider concern that the current generation of people in charge are losing the plot.

[terry57]

This is getting surreal.

SURREAL = BIZARRE.

not bizarre at all,

as we are trying to get some facts sorted out as to how people are comming up with there opinions.

[Totster]

I think we are all guilty of xenophobia at some level, and I think thats what PB was getting at..

I also reiterate Boos comments.

totster

[steveromagnino]

There are certain posters that can be universally relied upon to point out the shortcomings of Thailand, usually marginally tempered with 'most Thais' or 'almost all Thais'. They live here, claim to have a solid understanding of Thai, and in two cases I can think of are apparently here virtually against their will, because their partners want to live here, but they do not. Ironically, many of their observations do NOT stand up to scrutiny and show a very superficial understanding of the world around them and for this reason I doubt their Thai abilities are anywhere near the standard they think they speak. They don't like it here and fair enough - Thailand is paradise for some, and purgatory for others. I think TV is a release valve for this group to whinge and moan.

There are another group that are mostly negative, but in a fairly objective way and willing to point out the things they like. One in this group I consider to be one of the wiser posters on the board, even though he currently isn't even residing in Thailand; some have considered him to be perhaps not the funniest poster on TV.

Then there are some that are eternally optomistic, for who Thailand cannot ever be faulted. TV is a battlefront to defend what they believe, even if it is riduculous at times.

There would be little point in only having mods from the last group, as this would alienate the first group. Ditto for the reverse situation.

I will let you guess which group I think Peaceblondie belongs to. :-)

Regarding xenophobia, I doubt here is particularly bad for most groups, and certainly not for white people who have it pretty good in most parts of the world (unlike Indians and dark skinned people, who pretty much have it bad whevever they go). It definitely did increase during the Taksin era, which is somewhat ironic given that the guy was willing (more than most) to take foreign money in one hand while moaning about foreigners to the masses upcountry.

Let's hope things improve; but listening to what Thailand owes all the foreigners living here blah blah blah gets a bit dull after a while. Also...making TIT observations that exist pretty much around the world is also not the most exciting reading either.

Porn.

Now that is exciting reading.

Edited January 23, 2007 by steveromagnino

[terry57]

I do not see anything in PB's statement bashing Thais. Even moderators have a right to an opinion.

I have stated mine, that Thai's are just as xenophobic as the next person. Anyone who can't see it is either blinkered, seeing life through rose-colored glasses, or more obviously, can't speak Thai. Does that make me a Thai basher as well?

The fact of the matter is that Thai people are human, just like everyone else. And, coming from a fairly homogeneous society, tend to be fearful of those different and from fear springs dislike and distrust.

And as for the ridiculous statement of "if you don't like it then go home" please, lets not bring that old chestnut out, it is just as invalid now as it has been in the past.

its got to be the way it is.

we have a big problem in australia with a moslem leader slagging of australia in a vile fashion, attacking our women and way of life.

us australians are saying that this character needs a one way ticket back to his home land.

he wants to live here but hates everything australian.

the call is "if you dont like us go home"

sounds perfectly resonable to me and theres no point being in a country if you dont like it is there?

los is no different.

[terry57]

I think we are all guilty of xenophobia at some level, and I think thats what PB was getting at..

I also reiterate Boos comments.

totster

lets here from PB,

he can tell us what he meant by his comments that he's a thai basher.

[kiakaha]

I am a foreigner in Thailand. I could care less if thais like my race or not. Just as long as they keep "pretending" to like me, then I'm happy

[blaze]

Maybe there is some justification to the xenophobia- some function- I have always thought that Thailand is like the dog playing the violin- you aren't so much repulsed by the music as amazed that it plays at all- and I think most of us would agree, that frequently it plays beautifully. And the reason, I think, may be attributed to the very concept of "Thainess'- including not just ancient customs and rituals- but ways of interacting- conflict avoidance, kraeng Jai- the emphasis on good manners, children being taught who and how to wai as if that were the most important thing they will have to learn (and for many, sadly, it probably is).

We, of course, benefit from this: "I am Thai. Thais are polite. Therefore I am polite." So while we may be referred to as lowly objects (often, the assumption being that we don't know what is being said about us) - at least we aren't spat at on the street.

The Thais know that theirs is a very unique culture- and maybe, on some subconcious level, they also know what horrors would be visited on this place if, as, and when that culture erodes. Thus the culture must be kept pure. It can't be explained, argued- it must be transcendent, almost mystical- like 'blood'.

We, with our strange notions, threaten the purity of that culture, or whats left of that purity. And when that culture- the traditions and mores- breaks down, in the absense of law, it will be pandemonium. Imagine in this country, where law is at best arbitrary, where economic divide is insane, where religion (as most religions) can be twisted to justify pretty much any behavior- imagine that the cement that holds these 65 million people were to be dilluted with even more foreign, often incongruous ideas and behaviors- we will look back fondly on the days of thinly masked xenophobia.