New Forum For Us Too Fat

[Jonson83]

NO,i am not missing the point.

In the long run it is simply not feasible to maintain such a diet.It is not healthly and it discourages exercise.This is why so many people FAIL in the longrun after using it.Nobody can keep such a diet over long periods of time(10-15-20 years..rest of your life..)

As for 'weight watchers' ....weight watchers!! thats a money making con and i honestly can't believe you use a program such as that as an example of a balanced diet/lifestyle.

Its very simple,exercise + balanced diet = good health,good body.Any doctor with any self respect would agree.I am not going to explain to you what a balanced diet consists of.You should already know! or maybe you should do some 'real research' ??? Everyone knows this is the right way to go,if you are unsure of what this means,then you can simply go to your local doctor and he will explain it for you.

The problem is,people are to lazy to actually do any exercise and lack the self displine to eat properly for more than a week.

..and this is where atkins comes in.

Don't have to exercise

Can eat tasty fatty foods

Lose weight at a rapid pace

That is why it is so popular.

'Are you confusing Ketosis with Ketotic acidosis?'

No i am not.The later is related to diabetes,the former is bad in the long run.Your body is not supposed to be deprieved of anything.

I hate to repeat myself but i really have to stress this point.Anyone who is serious about losing weight and maintaining an average level of bodyfat after that should have a balanced diet and exercise regulary.Every MD/doctor/whoever you go to when you are sick.... will agree.The suggestion that the atkins diet is better is nonsense.

Wow Wow wow, where to begin? You did not answer even ONE of my points

Every doctor? Hardly...You should take a look at the following link

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...754C0A9649C8B63

and the following which is "extreme atkins" but labels hardly matter

Your body is not supposed to be deprived of anything you say?

What does that mean? Meats and eggs contain all nutrients you need- fish

has omega-6 acid

Maybe you mean your body needs transfats from donuts?

Are you even aware that the food pyramid was officially discarded?

It shows the state of confusion medicine is in about what is "balanced"

My doctor in Canada thinks it's crap and he is hardly a quack...

Thai doctors I have interviewed believe Thai diet is best..

Hardly all the same opinions....

You obviously need an authoritarian answer to your beliefs and are probably unaware

that so called "balnced diet" recommendations come from flawed studies done decades ago.

Here's a link that explains:

.....I answered everyone of your 'questions' ?? Maybe a trip to the opticians is in order?

>The vast majority of doctors recomend eating from a balanced diet and exercising regulary.Nearly all agree that this is the best way to fight fat and maintain a desirable bodyweight.I refuse to argue this point any further.Its not even debateble.

'your body is not supposed to be deprieved of anything you say'

NO it is not.I thought that would be kinda obvious??

dep·ri·va·tion> The absence, loss, or withholding of something needed.

Bottom line.It all comes down to the individual,but the vast majority of people should be eating from a balanced diet and avoid fad diets such as atkins.

Are you seriously trying to debate that?

[Jonson83]

Good luck pampal

[Zardoz]

NO,i am not missing the point.

In the long run it is simply not feasible to maintain such a diet.It is not healthly and it discourages exercise.This is why so many people FAIL in the longrun after using it.Nobody can keep such a diet over long periods of time(10-15-20 years..rest of your life..)

As for 'weight watchers' ....weight watchers!! thats a money making con and i honestly can't believe you use a program such as that as an example of a balanced diet/lifestyle.

Its very simple,exercise + balanced diet = good health,good body.Any doctor with any self respect would agree.I am not going to explain to you what a balanced diet consists of.You should already know! or maybe you should do some 'real research' ??? Everyone knows this is the right way to go,if you are unsure of what this means,then you can simply go to your local doctor and he will explain it for you.

The problem is,people are to lazy to actually do any exercise and lack the self displine to eat properly for more than a week.

..and this is where atkins comes in.

Don't have to exercise

Can eat tasty fatty foods

Lose weight at a rapid pace

That is why it is so popular.

'Are you confusing Ketosis with Ketotic acidosis?'

No i am not.The later is related to diabetes,the former is bad in the long run.Your body is not supposed to be deprieved of anything.

I hate to repeat myself but i really have to stress this point.Anyone who is serious about losing weight and maintaining an average level of bodyfat after that should have a balanced diet and exercise regulary.Every MD/doctor/whoever you go to when you are sick.... will agree.The suggestion that the atkins diet is better is nonsense.

Wow Wow wow, where to begin? You did not answer even ONE of my points

Every doctor? Hardly...You should take a look at the following link

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...754C0A9649C8B63

and the following which is "extreme atkins" but labels hardly matter

Your body is not supposed to be deprived of anything you say?

What does that mean? Meats and eggs contain all nutrients you need- fish

has omega-6 acid

Maybe you mean your body needs transfats from donuts?

Are you even aware that the food pyramid was officially discarded?

It shows the state of confusion medicine is in about what is "balanced"

My doctor in Canada thinks it's crap and he is hardly a quack...

Thai doctors I have interviewed believe Thai diet is best..

Hardly all the same opinions....

You obviously need an authoritarian answer to your beliefs and are probably unaware

that so called "balnced diet" recommendations come from flawed studies done decades ago.

Here's a link that explains:

.....I answered everyone of your 'questions' ?? Maybe a trip to the opticians is in order?

>The vast majority of doctors recomend eating from a balanced diet and exercising regulary.Nearly all agree that this is the best way to fight fat and maintain a desirable bodyweight.I refuse to argue this point any further.Its not even debateble.

'your body is not supposed to be deprieved of anything you say'

NO it is not.I thought that would be kinda obvious??

dep·ri·va·tion> The absence, loss, or withholding of something needed.

Bottom line.It all comes down to the individual,but the vast majority of people should be eating from a balanced diet and avoid fad diets such as atkins.

Are you seriously trying to debate that?

Actually you didn't answer any of my questions..maybe a trip to the univeristy

for a course in logic and analytical reasoning is in order? A course in anthropology

would help too as you have no scientific knowledge either.

Your post come across as "reactionary" another good word you may care to look up.

Obviously you didn't check or bother to read any of the links I gave you.

A balanced diet is a balanced diet you seem to be happy with that as though it were

obvious. Look up "begging the question" when you take that logic course.

hint: I am NOT trying to say that you shouldn't eat a balanced diet...just question

what the best definition of that term is..Atkins and Paleodiet and Carnivore

and others represent their own definition of balanced.

Far from being "fad" diets, they are probably closer to the way our

ancestors ate for millions of years. Our diet is the fad one.

[marshbags]

Taken from my local newspaper today is yet another article on the concerns related to health and low carb diets.

In particular the old favourite yet to be clinically proved to be advantages to health, relating to meaningful long term studies by non commercial academics....The Atkins Diet

Individual opinions of a non academic nature are both dangerous and meaningless.

Think about it before engaging in this sort of make do short term reduction, the rest is up to you of course.

Thursday February 8 2007

Quote:-

Doctors issue health alert over woman made ill by Atkins diet

People who strictly follow the Atkins diet could be risking their lives, doctors reported today.

A team in New York described how they treated a 40-year-old woman who developed a dangerous condition called ketoacidosis after cutting out carbohydrates.

The obese woman had rigorously followed the diet and taken the recommended precautions, including using vitamins and other supplements marketed by Atkins.

After arriving in a distressed state at a hospital emergency department, she was placed in an intensive care unit.

Four days later she was well enough to be discharged.

Doctors writing today in The Lancet medical journal said that before her admission, the woman had lost appetite and felt nauseous, vomiting four to six times a day.

After becoming increasingly short of breath, she presented at hospital as an emergency.

The woman was in “moderate distress” with a respiratory rate of 20 to 30 breaths per minute.

Tests confirmed ketoacidosis – a serious condition that occurs when dangerous levels of acids called ketones build up in the blood.

Ketones are produced in the liver when insulin levels fall due to starvation or diabetes. In the case of this patient, doctors concluded that the Atkins diet was chiefly to blame.

Professor Klaus-Dieter Lessnau, who led the team from the New York School of Medicine, wrote: “Our patient had an underlying ketosis caused by the Atkins diet and developed severe ketoacidosis possibly when her oral intake has compromised from mild pancreatitis or gastroenteritis.

“This problem may become more recognised because this diet is becoming increasingly popular worldwide.”

The Atkins diet claims to produce rapid weight loss by cutting carbohydrates. For a month before she fell ill, the woman had lived on meat, cheese and salads.

She also took supplements recommended by the diet, including Atkins Basic3 multivitamins, Atkins Essential Oils, Atkins Dieters’ Advantage and a “thermogenic” formula, Atkins Accel.

As instructed in the original Atkins diet book, she monitored her urine twice daily using dipsticks. During this month-long period, she lost about nine kilograms of weight.

Commenting on the case, Dr Lyn Steffen and Ms Jennifer Nettleton, from the University of Minnesota School of Public Health in Minneapolis, USA, delivered a further warning about Atkins and other carb- cutting diets.

“Low carbohydrate diets for weight management are far from healthy, given their association with ketosis, constipation or diarrhoea, halitosis, headache, and general fatigue to name a few side effects,” they wrote in The Lancet.

“These diets also increase the protein load to the kidneys and alter the acid balance in the body, which can result in loss of minerals from bone stores, thus compromising bone integrity.”

They said “indisputable safety” was the most important factor when formulating prescriptions for weight loss.

But their report concluded: “Low carbohydrate diets currently fall short of this benchmark.”

Unquote.

marshbags

P.S.

Yet another post echoing the points made at the beginning of the debate and one echoed by most diet related experts including many connected to health / slimming clubs world wide., i might add.

QUOTE(Jonson83 @ 2007-02-06 22:06:53)

NO,i am not missing the point.

In the long run it is simply not feasible to maintain such a diet.It is not healthly and it discourages exercise.This is why so many people FAIL in the longrun after using it.Nobody can keep such a diet over long periods of time(10-15-20 years..rest of your life..)

As for 'weight watchers' ....weight watchers!! thats a money making con and i honestly can't believe you use a program such as that as an example of a balanced diet/lifestyle.

Its very simple,exercise + balanced diet = good health,good body.Any doctor with any self respect would agree.I am not going to explain to you what a balanced diet consists of.You should already know! or maybe you should do some 'real research' ??? Everyone knows this is the right way to go,if you are unsure of what this means,then you can simply go to your local doctor and he will explain it for you.

The problem is,people are to lazy to actually do any exercise and lack the self displine to eat properly for more than a week.

..and this is where atkins comes in.

Don't have to exercise

Can eat tasty fatty foods

Lose weight at a rapid pace

That is why it is so popular.

'Are you confusing Ketosis with Ketotic acidosis?'

No i am not.The later is related to diabetes,the former is bad in the long run.Your body is not supposed to be deprieved of anything.

I hate to repeat myself but i really have to stress this point.Anyone who is serious about losing weight and maintaining an average level of bodyfat after that should have a balanced diet and exercise regulary.Every MD/doctor/whoever you go to when you are sick.... will agree.The suggestion that the atkins diet is better is nonsense

Unquote.

Another truth on the realities of dieting and commitment regarding those fortunate enough to be healthy and able to take the more sensible long term actions.

Honesty to yourself once again enters into it in the majority of past attempts / cases, unless of course you fit into the minority who sadly have a health related reason for not being able to loose weight.

[jumnien]

12 days on a healthy low-fat eating plan. Still walking 5 - 10 kilometres per day and the kilos are dripping off and my clothes are fitting better and better. I have a couple months to go but I'd like to thank everyone on this thread for keeping me inspired on a daily basis.

[marshbags]

12 days on a healthy low-fat eating plan. Still walking 5 - 10 kilometres per day and the kilos are dripping off and my clothes are fitting better and better. I have a couple months to go but I'd like to thank everyone on this thread for keeping me inspired on a daily basis.

I,ve been reading your comments mdeland and your are, in my humble opinion, an inpsiration to all the others who need a bit of encouragement.

Incidently i cover a similar distance daily also and it provides a simple way of exercising and at the same time many positives on your well being, don,t you find.

It really is well worth the effort not only for dieters but everyone who is able to partake, even the ones who,s lifestyle is a little more sociable / hectic.

Well done if i may be allowed to say so without sounding condescending.

marshbags and most of the time very

[pampal]

Good luck pampal

Thank you and good luck to you as well

[marshbags]

Taken from a healthier lifestyle article.

Quote:-

Read on for need-to-know information on:

Nutrition

Exercise

Latest news

Options to consider

"With Valentine's day approaching, it is a timely reminder that men's sexual health is adversely influenced by many of the same factors that cause heart disease. While some diseases cannot be treated and medication - especially for raised blood pressure - may have an effect, obesity, lack of exercise and especially excessive alcohol and smoking are all modifiable major risks for reduced erectile function."

1)

Ditch the croissants and Danish pastries, and choose wholegrain bread instead of white.

Opt for herbal tea rather than higher-calorie, caffeinated hot chocolates or milky coffees.

Watch out for the hidden salt in bread, cheese, sausages and other processed foods. Labels that indicate salt, fat and sugar content are now used by major food retailers, making it easier to know what is in your food.

Dairy foods, such as milk and cheese, can be high in fat, so stick to semi-skimmed, skimmed and lower fat varieties, and if you're using cheese to flavour food, go for strong-tasting mature Cheddar or blue cheese - you won't need as much.

2)

Don't stint on your five-a-day. It may sound like a lot but dried, tinned and frozen fruit and veg all count as portions, so add dried fruit such as raisins or apricots to your breakfast cereal, and snack on fresh fruit or chopped carrots.

Prepare warming winter casseroles and stews using water instead of oil and spices, and herbs to replace salt.

Eat more starchy foods potatoes, wholemeal rice, pasta and wholemeal bread, and breakfast cereals. They contain less than half the calories of fat and are a good source of energy, fibre, iron and B vitamins.

3)

Eat oily fish such as mackerel or sardines twice a week.

If you drink alcohol, limit yourself to small amounts (one or two units a day).

Exercise

To keep your heart healthy, exercise is as important as nutrition. Aim for at least 30 minutes of activity five times a week.

4)

If your New Year fitness regime has started lagging in January, now's a great time to try a new activity to alleviate exercise boredom. Consider rambling, sailing or gardening to get you into the fresh air, or try indoor pursuits such as dancing, swimming and ice skating. Other ways to increase your fitness regime include building it into your daily life in small ways, such as getting off the bus or train a stop early and walking briskly to your destination, doing half an hour's energetic housework, walking around and doing stretches while you're on the telephone instead of slumping on the sofa - it all counts!

"With Valentine's day approaching, it is a timely reminder that men's sexual health is adversely influenced by many of the same factors that cause heart disease. While some diseases cannot be treated and medication - especially for raised blood pressure - may have an effect, obesity, lack of exercise and especially excessive alcohol and smoking are all modifiable major risks for reduced erectile function."

Len Shapiro, Health Club Expert.

Unquote.

General news from the same article:-

Latest news

New research by scientists at US Tufts University has shown that the high level of antioxidant compounds, including flavonoids, found in almond skins could protect LDL (bad cholesterol) against oxidation, a process linked to the development of heart disease.

Did you know?

According to the World Health Organization, around one quarter of all cases of coronary heart disease in the developed world are due to inadequate physical exercise.

Matters of the heart

With Valentine's Day on 14 February, you may find matters of the heart playing on your mind. It's sometimes tricky in winter to focus on fitness and healthy food, but doing so will help your heart stay strong.

marshbags

[Zardoz]

Taken from a healthier lifestyle article.

Quote:-

Read on for need-to-know information on:

Nutrition

Exercise

Latest news

Options to consider

"With Valentine's day approaching, it is a timely reminder that men's sexual health is adversely influenced by many of the same factors that cause heart disease. While some diseases cannot be treated and medication - especially for raised blood pressure - may have an effect, obesity, lack of exercise and especially excessive alcohol and smoking are all modifiable major risks for reduced erectile function."

1)

Ditch the croissants and Danish pastries, and choose wholegrain bread instead of white.

Opt for herbal tea rather than higher-calorie, caffeinated hot chocolates or milky coffees.

Watch out for the hidden salt in bread, cheese, sausages and other processed foods. Labels that indicate salt, fat and sugar content are now used by major food retailers, making it easier to know what is in your food.

Dairy foods, such as milk and cheese, can be high in fat, so stick to semi-skimmed, skimmed and lower fat varieties, and if you're using cheese to flavour food, go for strong-tasting mature Cheddar or blue cheese - you won't need as much.

2)

Don't stint on your five-a-day. It may sound like a lot but dried, tinned and frozen fruit and veg all count as portions, so add dried fruit such as raisins or apricots to your breakfast cereal, and snack on fresh fruit or chopped carrots.

Prepare warming winter casseroles and stews using water instead of oil and spices, and herbs to replace salt.

Eat more starchy foods potatoes, wholemeal rice, pasta and wholemeal bread, and breakfast cereals. They contain less than half the calories of fat and are a good source of energy, fibre, iron and B vitamins.

3)

Eat oily fish such as mackerel or sardines twice a week.

If you drink alcohol, limit yourself to small amounts (one or two units a day).

Exercise

To keep your heart healthy, exercise is as important as nutrition. Aim for at least 30 minutes of activity five times a week.

4)

If your New Year fitness regime has started lagging in January, now's a great time to try a new activity to alleviate exercise boredom. Consider rambling, sailing or gardening to get you into the fresh air, or try indoor pursuits such as dancing, swimming and ice skating. Other ways to increase your fitness regime include building it into your daily life in small ways, such as getting off the bus or train a stop early and walking briskly to your destination, doing half an hour's energetic housework, walking around and doing stretches while you're on the telephone instead of slumping on the sofa - it all counts!

"With Valentine's day approaching, it is a timely reminder that men's sexual health is adversely influenced by many of the same factors that cause heart disease. While some diseases cannot be treated and medication - especially for raised blood pressure - may have an effect, obesity, lack of exercise and especially excessive alcohol and smoking are all modifiable major risks for reduced erectile function."

Len Shapiro, Health Club Expert.

Unquote.

General news from the same article:-

Latest news

New research by scientists at US Tufts University has shown that the high level of antioxidant compounds, including flavonoids, found in almond skins could protect LDL (bad cholesterol) against oxidation, a process linked to the development of heart disease.

Did you know?

According to the World Health Organization, around one quarter of all cases of coronary heart disease in the developed world are due to inadequate physical exercise.

Matters of the heart

With Valentine's Day on 14 February, you may find matters of the heart playing on your mind. It's sometimes tricky in winter to focus on fitness and healthy food, but doing so will help your heart stay strong.

marshbags

It's pretty clear that the repeat posts by marshbags and others on the dangers of Atkins

shows how threatening this way of eating is to many.

Are there no other THINKERS on this forum?

The fact that one woman got ketotic acidosis is hardly proof of

anything...transition from standard diet to ANY alternative has to be done

carefully. Thousands on the low carb forums swear by Atkins.

For every newspaper article you can find against it I can find one for...

Is noone here capable of analytical debate? It appears not.

I hope the moderator closes this thread as it is getting nowhere.

[Medit8]

Not sure I agree with your suggestion to close the thread. I, for one, find it interesting. A little less sarcasm and personal insults would be useful, but the content is enlightening. I particularly liked the link to Bear Stanley's site. What an interesting guy and what interesting choices he has made in life in general. Not to mention that it flies in the face of largely universally accepted thoughts on a safe and healthy diet. May he live to 100 and prove that his way works (at least for some). I am not brave enough to try it and certainly not committed or disciplined to avoid any carb for my entire life. I do shun large amounts of carbs and work out about 4 times a week. At 186 cm and 93 kgs, I feel fine at 44. It's 8 kilos more than I would like, but I'm not laying off my wine habit.

Best of luck to everyone in their pursuit of weight loss, but more importantly, the attainment of a healthier lifestyle. Hard to do in Thailand, but imminently achievable with some determination.

[bernie66]

Bernie, fortunately for most of us heavy types there ARE a fair number of people who like us just the way we are- but when it leads to our early deaths that's no good for anyone! The guy I dated last had a previous BF who'd died of diabetes- not the way I wanna go.

Marshbags, mentioning diet and exercise per se are not against the rules here. The guidelines state that posters should not aggressively *hijack* any threads giving one type of advice by suggesting a different kind of advice- this is a support forum, not a debate soapbox. This particular thread is kind of open ended, so you can feel free to go on... and on... ... If you are not sure what the rules now are, please check here.

Hey Steve, my father died from diabetes. I wasn't trying to make light of this .this was only the first three sentences to catch someone's attention. They edit everything I say here. They cut out my entire log leaving only sentences as to make me sound like an idiot. I wrote that their are some excellent amphetamines that a doctor can prescribe in very safe doses. Fasten being one to ask for. I lost my first wife because of my weight , lost my father because of his weight. Please accept my apology if what they left of my comment sounded uncompassionate. The editors here change everything I write. They are upset because I compared how the world deals with Muslim indifference to violence on non muslims as to how Americans deal with Black Americans indifference to violence and crime on non blacks. That is that they both cry victim but do nothing to police their own communities.

[Jonson83]

Taken from a healthier lifestyle article.

Quote:-

Read on for need-to-know information on:

Nutrition

Exercise

Latest news

Options to consider

"With Valentine's day approaching, it is a timely reminder that men's sexual health is adversely influenced by many of the same factors that cause heart disease. While some diseases cannot be treated and medication - especially for raised blood pressure - may have an effect, obesity, lack of exercise and especially excessive alcohol and smoking are all modifiable major risks for reduced erectile function."

1)

Ditch the croissants and Danish pastries, and choose wholegrain bread instead of white.

Opt for herbal tea rather than higher-calorie, caffeinated hot chocolates or milky coffees.

Watch out for the hidden salt in bread, cheese, sausages and other processed foods. Labels that indicate salt, fat and sugar content are now used by major food retailers, making it easier to know what is in your food.

Dairy foods, such as milk and cheese, can be high in fat, so stick to semi-skimmed, skimmed and lower fat varieties, and if you're using cheese to flavour food, go for strong-tasting mature Cheddar or blue cheese - you won't need as much.

2)

Don't stint on your five-a-day. It may sound like a lot but dried, tinned and frozen fruit and veg all count as portions, so add dried fruit such as raisins or apricots to your breakfast cereal, and snack on fresh fruit or chopped carrots.

Prepare warming winter casseroles and stews using water instead of oil and spices, and herbs to replace salt.

Eat more starchy foods potatoes, wholemeal rice, pasta and wholemeal bread, and breakfast cereals. They contain less than half the calories of fat and are a good source of energy, fibre, iron and B vitamins.

3)

Eat oily fish such as mackerel or sardines twice a week.

If you drink alcohol, limit yourself to small amounts (one or two units a day).

Exercise

To keep your heart healthy, exercise is as important as nutrition. Aim for at least 30 minutes of activity five times a week.

4)

If your New Year fitness regime has started lagging in January, now's a great time to try a new activity to alleviate exercise boredom. Consider rambling, sailing or gardening to get you into the fresh air, or try indoor pursuits such as dancing, swimming and ice skating. Other ways to increase your fitness regime include building it into your daily life in small ways, such as getting off the bus or train a stop early and walking briskly to your destination, doing half an hour's energetic housework, walking around and doing stretches while you're on the telephone instead of slumping on the sofa - it all counts!

"With Valentine's day approaching, it is a timely reminder that men's sexual health is adversely influenced by many of the same factors that cause heart disease. While some diseases cannot be treated and medication - especially for raised blood pressure - may have an effect, obesity, lack of exercise and especially excessive alcohol and smoking are all modifiable major risks for reduced erectile function."

Len Shapiro, Health Club Expert.

Unquote.

General news from the same article:-

Latest news

New research by scientists at US Tufts University has shown that the high level of antioxidant compounds, including flavonoids, found in almond skins could protect LDL (bad cholesterol) against oxidation, a process linked to the development of heart disease.

Did you know?

According to the World Health Organization, around one quarter of all cases of coronary heart disease in the developed world are due to inadequate physical exercise.

Matters of the heart

With Valentine's Day on 14 February, you may find matters of the heart playing on your mind. It's sometimes tricky in winter to focus on fitness and healthy food, but doing so will help your heart stay strong.

marshbags

It's pretty clear that the repeat posts by marshbags and others on the dangers of Atkins

shows how threatening this way of eating is to many.

Are there no other THINKERS on this forum?

The fact that one woman got ketotic acidosis is hardly proof of

anything...transition from standard diet to ANY alternative has to be done

carefully. Thousands on the low carb forums swear by Atkins.

For every newspaper article you can find against it I can find one for...

Is noone here capable of analytical debate? It appears not.

I hope the moderator closes this thread as it is getting nowhere.

Close the debate?? Why? because you don't like what were saying? or that were not impressed by your 'the american indians did it' garbage?

I don't even know what your point is? what are you trying to tell us?

This is my point.

Eating from a balanced diet and exercising regulary is the best way to go for long term,serious fat loss.

Why?

>Promotes exercise

>Burns fat consistantly and in the long run is more effective than atkins(This has been proven!)

>Eating poorly from time to time will not cause rapid weight gains ,unlike atkins.

>Your body is not being deprieved of anything,unlike atkins

>You have always got plenty of energy(great for motivation and exercise)..unlike atkins

>Easier to stick to! both short term and long term.

Now this next paragraph may seem arrogant but i am tired of you talking down to me like I am some retard.

Right,I am not like you.I am not like the majority of people who use this particular forum.I am lean,my bodyfat is round about 8-9%(very low).I maintain this and a fair amount of muscle mass through my balanced diet and regular exercise.I have used many different diets to achieve my goals(low fat,low carb etc).I have helped friends lose unwanted fat,and i have seen friends fail completely on fad diets such as atkins.Bottom line,i know what i'm f@@king talking about.I have come on this forum simply because i have an interest in this sort of thing and to offer some friendly advise.Ok? there is absolutely no need for you to talk down to me or anyone else because your arguement has run into a dead end.

What exactly is your arguement anyway??

That because plains indians and cavemen ate that way,we can to? Because our bodies can adapt..that its ok??? Our bodies can adapt to a lot of things.The human body is amazing but just because we can,doesn't mean we should!

You are not a plains indian,nor a caveman.This is the 21st century.You can get any type of food you want.You have access to gyms,fitness centers(not that you need these to exercise) In the long run,compared to other methods of losing unwanted fat.The atkins is crap and i would never advise anyone to do it for the rest of their bloody lives(like you are suggesting!).For your average bloke it is to hard to stick by and it does not promote exercise.Thats the big one.Thats why people are getting fatter,not slimmer.A lack of daily exercise.

Rant over.

[Zardoz]

Taken from a healthier lifestyle article.

Quote:-

Read on for need-to-know information on:

Nutrition

Exercise

Latest news

Options to consider

"With Valentine's day approaching, it is a timely reminder that men's sexual health is adversely influenced by many of the same factors that cause heart disease. While some diseases cannot be treated and medication - especially for raised blood pressure - may have an effect, obesity, lack of exercise and especially excessive alcohol and smoking are all modifiable major risks for reduced erectile function."

1)

Ditch the croissants and Danish pastries, and choose wholegrain bread instead of white.

Opt for herbal tea rather than higher-calorie, caffeinated hot chocolates or milky coffees.

Watch out for the hidden salt in bread, cheese, sausages and other processed foods. Labels that indicate salt, fat and sugar content are now used by major food retailers, making it easier to know what is in your food.

Dairy foods, such as milk and cheese, can be high in fat, so stick to semi-skimmed, skimmed and lower fat varieties, and if you're using cheese to flavour food, go for strong-tasting mature Cheddar or blue cheese - you won't need as much.

2)

Don't stint on your five-a-day. It may sound like a lot but dried, tinned and frozen fruit and veg all count as portions, so add dried fruit such as raisins or apricots to your breakfast cereal, and snack on fresh fruit or chopped carrots.

Prepare warming winter casseroles and stews using water instead of oil and spices, and herbs to replace salt.

Eat more starchy foods potatoes, wholemeal rice, pasta and wholemeal bread, and breakfast cereals. They contain less than half the calories of fat and are a good source of energy, fibre, iron and B vitamins.

3)

Eat oily fish such as mackerel or sardines twice a week.

If you drink alcohol, limit yourself to small amounts (one or two units a day).

Exercise

To keep your heart healthy, exercise is as important as nutrition. Aim for at least 30 minutes of activity five times a week.

4)

If your New Year fitness regime has started lagging in January, now's a great time to try a new activity to alleviate exercise boredom. Consider rambling, sailing or gardening to get you into the fresh air, or try indoor pursuits such as dancing, swimming and ice skating. Other ways to increase your fitness regime include building it into your daily life in small ways, such as getting off the bus or train a stop early and walking briskly to your destination, doing half an hour's energetic housework, walking around and doing stretches while you're on the telephone instead of slumping on the sofa - it all counts!

"With Valentine's day approaching, it is a timely reminder that men's sexual health is adversely influenced by many of the same factors that cause heart disease. While some diseases cannot be treated and medication - especially for raised blood pressure - may have an effect, obesity, lack of exercise and especially excessive alcohol and smoking are all modifiable major risks for reduced erectile function."

Len Shapiro, Health Club Expert.

Unquote.

General news from the same article:-

Latest news

New research by scientists at US Tufts University has shown that the high level of antioxidant compounds, including flavonoids, found in almond skins could protect LDL (bad cholesterol) against oxidation, a process linked to the development of heart disease.

Did you know?

According to the World Health Organization, around one quarter of all cases of coronary heart disease in the developed world are due to inadequate physical exercise.

Matters of the heart

With Valentine's Day on 14 February, you may find matters of the heart playing on your mind. It's sometimes tricky in winter to focus on fitness and healthy food, but doing so will help your heart stay strong.

marshbags

It's pretty clear that the repeat posts by marshbags and others on the dangers of Atkins

shows how threatening this way of eating is to many.

Are there no other THINKERS on this forum?

The fact that one woman got ketotic acidosis is hardly proof of

anything...transition from standard diet to ANY alternative has to be done

carefully. Thousands on the low carb forums swear by Atkins.

For every newspaper article you can find against it I can find one for...

Is noone here capable of analytical debate? It appears not.

I hope the moderator closes this thread as it is getting nowhere.

Close the debate?? Why? because you don't like what were saying? or that were not impressed by your 'the american indians did it' garbage?

I don't even know what your point is? what are you trying to tell us?

This is my point.

Eating from a balanced diet and exercising regulary is the best way to go for long term,serious fat loss.

Why?

>Promotes exercise

>Burns fat consistantly and in the long run is more effective than atkins(This has been proven!)

>Eating poorly from time to time will not cause rapid weight gains ,unlike atkins.

>Your body is not being deprieved of anything,unlike atkins

>You have always got plenty of energy(great for motivation and exercise)..unlike atkins

>Easier to stick to! both short term and long term.

Now this next paragraph may seem arrogant but i am tired of you talking down to me like I am some retard.

Right,I am not like you.I am not like the majority of people who use this particular forum.I am lean,my bodyfat is round about 8-9%(very low).I maintain this and a fair amount of muscle mass through my balanced diet and regular exercise.I have used many different diets to achieve my goals(low fat,low carb etc).I have helped friends lose unwanted fat,and i have seen friends fail completely on fad diets such as atkins.Bottom line,i know what i'm f@@king talking about.I have come on this forum simply because i have an interest in this sort of thing and to offer some friendly advise.Ok? there is absolutely no need for you to talk down to me or anyone else because your arguement has run into a dead end.

What exactly is your arguement anyway??

That because plains indians and cavemen ate that way,we can to? Because our bodies can adapt..that its ok??? Our bodies can adapt to a lot of things.The human body is amazing but just because we can,doesn't mean we should!

You are not a plains indian,nor a caveman.This is the 21st century.You can get any type of food you want.You have access to gyms,fitness centers(not that you need these to exercise) In the long run,compared to other methods of losing unwanted fat.The atkins is crap and i would never advise anyone to do it for the rest of their bloody lives(like you are suggesting!).For your average bloke it is to hard to stick by and it does not promote exercise.Thats the big one.Thats why people are getting fatter,not slimmer.A lack of daily exercise.

Rant over.

OK I'll reply in a nice way but ask you read the links. We are not cavemen you say! true!

We can adapt you say? To what? In what period of time..The fact is that evolution takes place

on a REALLY slow scale ..we cannot simply say I like processed food, my body will adapt to it...

OR are you saying that we can? In the space of approximately 100 years?

Well Medical evidence of the increase of disease at the turn of the 20th century would disagree..

OK but I here you..GENETICS you might say...Indians and Eskimos were gentically adapted to their diets...again time scale arguments apply but more imoportantly is the fact that people like

Stefasson who lived with them and ADOPTED THEIR DIET with no ill effects shows this

argument to be bogus..He was also observed rigorously(at Bellvue hospital in New York) in a now forgotten 1 year experiment

by skeptical, but honest, doctors..who reported him to be in excellent physical health after a year

of eatin a largely carnivorous diet..

There is much similar anecdotal evidence from other people who visited the innuit during that

period too...

It is not that you disagree with me that i want this thread cl;osed but that you seem hung up

by the endless dogmas of the last 40 years or so..dogmas that medicine itself is feeling great doubt about. Now go and look up

[links except news links must go in the pinned links thread]

for links to what i have said in more detail.

By the way alsmost none of these people are saying that exercise is unimportant though

they take different views on the details//

Happy reading!

[Jonson83]

SIgh,........

Why did you even bother responding? You are completely ignoring what i am trying to get through to you.

I do not care for your links to one off studies on eskimos/indians/penguins...lol.For every link you provide i can counter with 5, we have been through this.I understand the point you are trying to get across,but it is irrelevant.

Again,you are making me repeat myself.

For long term weight loss the atkins is not the way to go.I have listed dozens of reasons why other diets/methods are better(refer to my last post)

ARE YOU GOING TO DEBATE THIS.

If not,STOP responding!

Everything you say seems to be coming from oddball scientists or obscure studies? what about your own experiences? Tell me,how much exercise do you do weekly(im guessing not much)? Do you find it easy to stick to your diet? have you had good results? how long have you been dieting like this for?

More importantly,why do you think other people should use a similar diet...for the rest of their lives?

[Ijustwannateach]

Just a note for our posters: NON-NEWS LINKS IN THE LINKS THREAD ONLY, PLEASE. You can refer to the link in your other messages, but links must be placed there for spam-control purposes.

Zardoz, this thread is currently an open discussion. If it spawns other discussions (like this current Atkins-non-Atkins thing) those subdiscussions may become new threads. I'd like to see more discussion of the issues rather than discussion of how others are discussing the issues.

"Steven"

[Zardoz]

SIgh,........

Why did you even bother responding? You are completely ignoring what i am trying to get through to you.

I do not care for your links to one off studies on eskimos/indians/penguins...lol.For every link you provide i can counter with 5, we have been through this.I understand the point you are trying to get across,but it is irrelevant.

Again,you are making me repeat myself.

For long term weight loss the atkins is not the way to go.I have listed dozens of reasons why other diets/methods are better(refer to my last post)

ARE YOU GOING TO DEBATE THIS.

If not,STOP responding!

Everything you say seems to be coming from oddball scientists or obscure studies? what about your own experiences? Tell me,how much exercise do you do weekly(im guessing not much)? Do you find it easy to stick to your diet? have you had good results? how long have you been dieting like this for?

More importantly,why do you think other people should use a similar diet...for the rest of their lives?

YOU stop responding if you cannot see what I am trying to say.

These scientists are "oddball" ? Of course! They disagree with you so they must be...

OK so the world health organisation thinks (any controlled studies here?)

lack of exercise cause a lot of heart disease? OK fine!

Maybe it does maybe it doesn't but of course this is already in the context

of people on the SAD(Standard North American diet) and not

looking at Atkins or similar dieting people.

Maybe you can say in a sentence why you think this diet is not sustainable?

OK Let's get personal in an effort to progress the discussion..

I have been on it for a year and my health has much improved and I have

lost 4 kg. It's not always easy to stick with it but I have found that I don't miss

carbohydrates that much... a slice of garlic bread once in a blue moon I still

indulge in...

Why do I think that people should use this diet the rest of their lives?

The answer is in the plaeodiet.com website but I'll

summarize : We are eating food that we are not adapted to ;

this includes agriculture which is only 10,000 years or so old..evolution takes

place over millions of years so our hunter, mostly meat eating bodies are not

adapted to agricultural products. We can eat them for a while as an emergency

measure in times of famine but long term use causes diseases..The same

argument is of course applicable even more so to the processed food of the last century.

There is plenty of evidence in the above link

I hope that answers some of your questions

[Jonson83]

"OK Let's get personal in an effort to progress the discussion..

I have been on it for a year and my health has much improved and I have

lost 4 kg. It's not always easy to stick with it but I have found that I don't miss

carbohydrates that much... a slice of garlic bread once in a blue moon I still

indulge in..."

Ok.

You don't do any exercise.For anyone considering long term weight loss,thats crazy,yet unsuprising.As i have mentioned before,atkin dieters aren't big on exercise...

If you don't mind me asking,why not? to tired...? lack of motivation? Maybe other reasons that are none of my buisness?

"my health has much improved"

Why? Because you have lost some weight..? Weight loss doesnt always result in better health.Ofcourse,exercise does.

You have only been on the diet for a year,yet you are recomending that others should do it for longer periods(basically the rest of their lives),as opposed to more sensible(IMO) and effective diets?.Do you think you could manage to do it for the rest of your life?

You do understand what will happen if you don't have the will power to keep this up permanantly..don't you?

Well,i hope you understand my point.I understand yours perfectly,i got it in your first post.I just do not believe it is practical for the average man/woman in this day an age.Not as a long term solution to unwanted fat etc There are more sensible,more effective ways of going about it IMO.

Good luck

[Zardoz]

"OK Let's get personal in an effort to progress the discussion..

I have been on it for a year and my health has much improved and I have

lost 4 kg. It's not always easy to stick with it but I have found that I don't miss

carbohydrates that much... a slice of garlic bread once in a blue moon I still

indulge in..."

Ok.

You don't do any exercise.For anyone considering long term weight loss,thats crazy,yet unsuprising.As i have mentioned before,atkin dieters aren't big on exercise...

If you don't mind me asking,why not? to tired...? lack of motivation? Maybe other reasons that are none of my buisness?

"my health has much improved"

Why? Because you have lost some weight..? Weight loss doesnt always result in better health.Ofcourse,exercise does.

You have only been on the diet for a year,yet you are recomending that others should do it for longer periods(basically the rest of their lives),as opposed to more sensible(IMO) and effective diets?.Do you think you could manage to do it for the rest of your life?

You do understand what will happen if you don't have the will power to keep this up permanantly..don't you?

Well,i hope you understand my point.I understand yours perfectly,i got it in your first post.I just do not believe it is practical for the average man/woman in this day an age.Not as a long term solution to unwanted fat etc There are more sensible,more effective ways of going about it IMO.

Good luck

To clarify I must say first of all that I was slightly overweight, the typical mid-40 beerbelly and now

I am pretty close to the way I looked at 30. When I said better health I meant both loss of weight and more energy. My health check-up last year found no major problems at all.

Exercise? I didn't really say but I will say that the weight I lost was not due to any ADDITIONAL

exercise. I walk a good 10 - 20 minutes a day, ride a bike when i have the chance(great in Chiang Mai), even swim

in beautiful Song Pong river when I have the chance. But I do these things naturally and because I feel

like doing them not because I want to lose few more pounds...as there is no weight to lose from carbs

why would a low-carber need that?

.

However THAT's JUST ME. There are other low-carbers and paleodieters(though they don't always call themselves that) who believe in a more systematic

approach and they may be right - indeed I may try there approaches though they are NOT

conventional in some ways: here are two people I respect, the first a NY physician, the second

a well-known scientist/athlete

Finally, what I would say is to do what works for you..and if it doesn't don't be afraid to try other approaches.

[solid]

After I was in the west for too long, I gained weight. BUT I could managed to cut 17kg of fat in 2 yrs!

Nothing complicated, but not easy to do: eat right, just enough, not too much, exercise both cardio and weight training.

These three support each other. Fuse them together, and you will be on fire! No lie.

And the word for it is "commitment".

IT REALLY WORKS.

[mcbride]

After I was in the west for too long, I gained weight. BUT I could managed to cut 17kg of fat in 2 yrs!

Nothing complicated, but not easy to do: eat right, just enough, not too much, exercise both cardio and weight training.

These three support each other. Fuse them together, and you will be on fire! No lie.

And the word for it is "commitment".

IT REALLY WORKS.

Solid, I totally agree with you. The only difference is that I don't eat meat or dairy products. You need to have a dream or "commitment" as you put it. My goal is to live to be 90 years old and disease free.

[firehorse]

Exercise and a balanced diet are the way to go. You can do the one or the other, but you're progress will be slower. We are all different. what works for one may not work for another. This is true of type of exercise and diet. One thing is true for all of us though. Body fat does not turn into muscle and vice versa. This is metabolicly impossible.

For all of you who are just starting, don't do anything that radicaly changes you're diet without first consulting a doctor or qualified dietition. Take it slow and build up as you go. If at first it seems like nothing is happening, don't give up. Keep away from the scales, they're not an intelligent life form. If you want to know how you're going, look in the mirror. If you're still not sure, pay a visit to someone you haven't seen for a while.

[dttk0009]

Exercise and a balanced diet are the way to go. You can do the one or the other, but you're progress will be slower. We are all different. what works for one may not work for another. This is true of type of exercise and diet. One thing is true for all of us though. Body fat does not turn into muscle and vice versa. This is metabolicly impossible.

For all of you who are just starting, don't do anything that radicaly changes you're diet without first consulting a doctor or qualified dietition. Take it slow and build up as you go. If at first it seems like nothing is happening, don't give up. Keep away from the scales, they're not an intelligent life form. If you want to know how you're going, look in the mirror. If you're still not sure, pay a visit to someone you haven't seen for a while.

Too true. I've been working out/dieting on and off for roughly 2 years now, and went from 98kg to 74kg (178cm). A scale isn't really the most reliable way to judge your progress as there are lots of factors that can affect your weight. hel_l, your body can weight can shift something like 2-4lbs just from water weight. Looking in the mirror is pretty much a reflection of how you feel about yourself. If you still think you look too fat, then that's how you'll see yourself. Also, because you see yourself in the mirror so frequently, noticing change over a period of time is very difficult. The best method, and it feels the best too, is when people tell you how much weight you've lost.

Lots of great advice in this thread on how to lose the fat. The one advice I can give is to keep at it. Every time I go on breaks from the gym I regret it, and it's pretty obvious that consistency is key.

[cooldrk]

i'm the only guy i know who goes to the gym 3 to5 times a week and gains 10kg??????!!!!!!!! help is needed for sure.

Hai there, me too.. i gain some weight as i attending the gym session.

But this is some common understanding we must have, which is not told to us by the intructor is that, by work out only will not loss weight, it will buit some fat to muscle.

So if your intension is lossing weight, so you must first loss the fat first, before you shape your body.

Lossing few kg is simple for some of my friend, either male and female, they are diet with some help of organic product.