Hopes of Brexit transition deal face Irish barrier

[smedly]

5 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Smedley, I do get it - it is also as biased and as informative as many other Brexit posts. Some truths, some distortions, some rubbish.

 

The reality is that Brexit is far more complicated than ANYONE realises.

I am under no illusion that it is complicated but I am also under not doubt that the EU are not making it easy on purpose, I would have walked a long time ago

 

Under WTO trading rules the EU gets taxed on exports to the UK at some 14billion - the UK exports to the EU some 4billion...............you do the maths

 

Oh and yes there are 27 member states but only a few of them export a meaningful amount to the UK - Germany - France - Italy - Norway and a little from Ireland but it is huge for them - 80% of their exports

 

anyway I'm done with this, everybody has they own views and I have voiced mine and provided some informative links to credible articles from educated people that know more about these matters than anyone here.

[samran]

12 minutes ago, smedly said:

The people of the UK voted to leave the EU, when the people of the UK were ticking boxes on the ballot they were "not" considering the Irish Republic........why should they, it is now up to the ROI to sit down with the UK and work something out then apply for permission from Brussels, the UK is blocking nothing and as I have said repeatedly have already offered simple working solutions to the problem which are being ignored 

You start from the basis that Ireland owe you something. The reality is they don't. They are going to make the UK work for it, as with every other FTA you'll seek out over the next decade. 

[smedly]

7 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I am all for an agreement and that is what the Irish govt has been pushing for since the brexit vote. 

 

The uk govt has singularly failed to address the issues brexit raises, particularly regarding the GFA. 

 

Hence, the current impasse. 

for Christ sake - the GFA has nothing to do with the EU or it's membership, it is totally nothing to with the EU, the fact you don't understand that means there is no point to this stupid conversation if you keep bringing it up

 

*****************The GFA has nothing to do with the EU and never did************************

 

now I'm done with this stupidity

[smedly]

7 minutes ago, samran said:

You start from the basis that Ireland owe you something. The reality is they don't. They are going to make the UK work for it, as with every other FTA you'll seek out over the next decade. 

The UK provide Ireland with 80% of their trade 

 

who is Ireland anyway, with a population of 5m who use the UK for Jobs handouts and free healthcare - that is Ireland, I am under no illusion what Ireland is - they offer absolutely nothing to the UK and would do well to remember that

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

for Christ sake - the GFA has nothing to do with the EU or it's membership, it is totally nothing to with the EU, the fact you don't understand that means there is no point to this stupid conversation if you keep bringing it up

 

*****************The GFA has nothing to do with the EU and never did************************

 

now I'm done with this stupidity

It is an issue, amongst others, that concerns the Irish govt. 

 

brexit has implications for its operation and the Irish govt, quite rightly, wants, at the least, an ad hoc agreement to enable any issues that arise from brexit to be resolved. 

 

The uk govt has failed to deliver this so far. 

[samran]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

The UK provide Ireland with 80% of their trade 

 

who is Ireland anyway, with a population of 5m who use the UK for Jobs handouts and free healthcare - that is Ireland, I am under no illusion what Ireland is - they offer absolutely nothing to the UK and would do well to remember that

Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner!

 

with an attitude like that, they - like Australia NZ and Canada before them, will take their business elsewhere. Fortunately for Ireland, unlike those three ‘kith and kin’ countries you mention, have unfettered access to the EU. The adjustment will be there, but largely minimal. 

[dunroaming]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

The UK are demanding nothing, the UK is leaving the EU

 

It is Ireland who are demanding that the UK act, at the end of the day the UK is leaving the EU and will not be erecting any border on the UK side between itself and the tiny republic of Ireland, if there is a border is will be on the Ireland/EU side - the UK does not approve of this

A staggeringly simplistic view.  The Irish border issue is very complex partly because of the Good Friday agreement.  Without that Ireland would be just another EU country and the borders would be treated in the same way as France or Germany or any other EU country.  It is the British who have promised the public no hard border and they have to come up with a way for that to work. At the moment they haven't and that is why the EU and specifically Ireland are irritated by the lack of clarity.

 

Blaming the EU for Britain's inability to offer any solutions is just simply naïve.

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

you are clearly ignoring the fact that Northern Ireland is as much part of the UK as England Scotland and Wales, on the last poll (recently) almost 80% want to remain within the UK, the suggestion from Brussels and ROI that N.Ireland has some sort of border between it and the UK is quite frankly ridiculous and will never ever happen on so many levels - even to suggest it is straight off the loony tree 

A majority in NI voted to remain in the EU and for good reason. Brexit is such a crap idea.

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

A majority in NI voted to remain in the EU and for good reason. Brexit is such a crap idea.

Under the Good Friday agreement, they still have the opportunity, if their Republican brothers will have them.  Unification could probably be sorted out before Brexit.

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Under the Good Friday agreement, they still have the opportunity, if their Republican brothers will have them.  Unification could probably be sorted out before Brexit.

Or, just stay in the customs union. No brainer. The Brexiters don't get it so what does one infer? ?

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[khunken]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

The UK provide Ireland with 80% of their trade 

 

who is Ireland anyway, with a population of 5m who use the UK for Jobs handouts and free healthcare - that is Ireland, I am under no illusion what Ireland is - they offer absolutely nothing to the UK and would do well to remember that

Well there you have it - the high & mighty UK talking down to the Irish serfs. It's one of the reasons that Ireland wanted & gained independence, unfortunately not for the whole island.

 

Earlier May made one offer that was acceptable to Ireland & the EU. That was vetoed by the DUP that May relies on to stay in power. Subsequently the UK has not made another acceptable offer. That is the problem.

 

Wouldn't it be so ironic if little old Ireland was the catalyst that buggered the arrogant UK government's attempts to fudge the border issue in order to benefit from an orderly Brexit? No, I hope it doesn't happen but the ball is in the UK's court.

[harleyclarkey]

The British agreed last December with the EC and Ireland to an Irish border solution.

The Irish Prime Minister wanted this in legal terms. The British, with the dogmatic, immovable, die-hard, Northern Ireland DUP having the final say reneged!

They are the party who, very unfortunately, are calling the shots in all of this. They are the party that will possibly/probably see a hard and devastating Brexit. 

 

Please read a bit of history for those who beleive the Irish are somehow acting as the puppets of the EC or are being silly buggers. There were thirty years of dreadful appalling unwarranted violence from, mainly, the IRA and the Loyalists thugs. A hard border will be devastating for the return to normality the North is currently enjoying. There must be NO hard border. 

 

Brexit is a mess brought on by a duped British electorate led by the lies and deceit from LeFarge and that Bore Johnson. For the jolly glad we are British brigade this will not end well for you. The youth of the UK voted by a good majority to remain. I guess it was the disillusioned "let's rebuild the Empire, brigade" that has thrown them, and their future, out of the EC. 

 

There, of course, should be no border as Ireland is an ancient Island violently and brutally occupied and colonised for 800 years by the British. They came in the 12th century and in 1494 The English crown officially claimed Ireland as part of England.

The North was never, ever, a part of the UK until taken by brute force. 

 

Just move back to the mainland from the six counties, hand and back what is rightfully ours and all will be well. Border issue solved.

[evadgib]

5 minutes ago, harleyclarkey said:

The British agreed last December with the EC and Ireland to an Irish border solution.

The Irish Prime Minister wanted this in legal terms. The British, with the dogmatic, immovable, die-hard, Northern Ireland DUP having the final say reneged!

They are the party who, very unfortunately, are calling the shots in all of this. They are the party that will possibly/probably see a hard and devastating Brexit. 

 

Please read a bit of history for those who beleive the Irish are somehow acting as the puppets of the EC or are being silly buggers. There were thirty years of dreadful appalling unwarranted violence from, mainly, the IRA and the Loyalists thugs. A hard border will be devastating for the return to normality the North is currently enjoying. There must be NO hard border. 

 

Brexit is a mess brought on by a duped British electorate led by the lies and deceit from LeFarge and that Bore Johnson. For the jolly glad we are British brigade this will not end well for you. The youth of the UK voted by a good majority to remain. I guess it was the disillusioned "let's rebuild the Empire, brigade" that has thrown them, and their future, out of the EC. 

 

There, of course, should be no border as Ireland is an ancient Island violently and brutally occupied and colonised for 800 years by the British. They came in the 12th century and in 1494 The English crown officially claimed Ireland as part of England.

The North was never, ever, a part of the UK until taken by brute force. 

 

Just move back to the mainland from the six counties, hand and back what is rightfully ours and all will be well. Border issue solved.

....and what about our contributions to your GDP?

[harleyclarkey]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

The UK provide Ireland with 80% of their trade 

 

who is Ireland anyway, with a population of 5m who use the UK for Jobs handouts and free healthcare - that is Ireland, I am under no illusion what Ireland is - they offer absolutely nothing to the UK and would do well to remember that

Smedley, your post is a typical example of the arrogant attitude some, just some, uneducated British have of the Irish. 

 

Health care is available to all EC citizens in any EU country..,.EC111. France and Germany leave you/the UK in the dark for health care. In Ireland, we have pressure on our health care system but it is staffed by the best in the world. Bar none.

 

As for handouts.... the Irish are fantastic loyal workers. They also fought alongside their British counterparts in two world wars with distinction, even when you occupied us as conquerors during the Great War, the Irish still fought alongside you. 

 

You are now short of workers which of course will slow your economy. The Irish are a terrific asset to the UK. 

 

We also are your 5th largest trading partner for your exports and the EU your largest!

[StreetCowboy]

17 minutes ago, harleyclarkey said:

The British agreed last December with the EC and Ireland to an Irish border solution.

The Irish Prime Minister wanted this in legal terms. The British, with the dogmatic, immovable, die-hard, Northern Ireland DUP having the final say reneged!

They are the party who, very unfortunately, are calling the shots in all of this. They are the party that will possibly/probably see a hard and devastating Brexit. 

 

Please read a bit of history for those who beleive the Irish are somehow acting as the puppets of the EC or are being silly buggers. There were thirty years of dreadful appalling unwarranted violence from, mainly, the IRA and the Loyalists thugs. A hard border will be devastating for the return to normality the North is currently enjoying. There must be NO hard border. 

 

Brexit is a mess brought on by a duped British electorate led by the lies and deceit from LeFarge and that Bore Johnson. For the jolly glad we are British brigade this will not end well for you. The youth of the UK voted by a good majority to remain. I guess it was the disillusioned "let's rebuild the Empire, brigade" that has thrown them, and their future, out of the EC. 

 

There, of course, should be no border as Ireland is an ancient Island violently and brutally occupied and colonised for 800 years by the British. They came in the 12th century and in 1494 The English crown officially claimed Ireland as part of England.

The North was never, ever, a part of the UK until taken by brute force. 

 

Just move back to the mainland from the six counties, hand and back what is rightfully ours and all will be well. Border issue solved.

You can no more repatriate the Ulstermen to any land but Ulster than you can repatriate the English to Denmark, Saxony and the Low Countries.  That sort of attitude just hardens sectarian prejudices and prevents anyone from moving forward into the 21st century from whatever dark cranny of history their minds inhabit.  We are where we are, and the best way to anywhere else is to start from here.

[harleyclarkey]

10 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

You can no more repatriate the Ulstermen to any land but Ulster than you can repatriate the English to Denmark, Saxony and the Low Countries.  That sort of attitude just hardens sectarian prejudices and prevents anyone from moving forward into the 21st century from whatever dark cranny of history their minds inhabit.  We are where we are, and the best way to anywhere else is to start from here.

 

You cannot "repatriate" Ulstermen to Ulster. By the way, it is the Northern Ireland six counties and not Ulster.

Ulster also includes Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan which are, as you might know, in the Republic. 

 

Your logic is also flawed as Denmark, Saxony and the low countries have no territory ceded by force and are whole nations. 

 

What hardens attitudes is the fact that Ireland is not a whole island ...as it should be. 

Again....the hardliners in the North have no right to be here! When you take something by brute, and was it brutal, force then you have no right to it.

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, harleyclarkey said:

 

You cannot "repatriate" Ulstermen to Ulster. By the way, it is the Northern Ireland six counties and not Ulster.

Ulster also includes Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan which are, as you might know, in the Republic. 

 

Your logic is also flawed as Denmark, Saxony and the low countries have no territory ceded by force and are whole nations. 

 

What hardens attitudes is the fact that Ireland is not a whole island ...as it should be. 

Again....the hardliners in the North have no right to be here! When you take something by brute, and was it brutal, force then you have no right to it.

You can't throw people out of their country because of the sins of history, regardless of what inherited resentments American Indians, or Australian Aborigines, or the Britons of Wales, or the Irish or anyone else might dredge up from days of yore.

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

I would have walked a long time ago

That illustrates that you really do not get it at all.  Walking away was never an option.

[Grouse]

38 minutes ago, evadgib said:

....and what about our contributions to your GDP?

Trivial

[Grouse]

Great timing

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

The people of the UK voted to leave the EU, when the people of the UK were ticking boxes on the ballot they were "not" considering the Irish Republic........why should they, it is now up to the ROI to sit down with the UK and work something out then apply for permission from Brussels, the UK is blocking nothing and as I have said repeatedly have already offered simple working solutions to the problem which are being ignored 

When people ticked the boxes they had no idea what they were voting for or the implications.  They were fed bulls*it by both sides and bought it hook, line and sinker.  Rather than facing up to that the Brexiteers choose to just put their fingers in their ears and bury their heads in the sand.

 

Now you have May and her boys rapidly running out of time and still not coming up with any proposals.  If they came up with an answer to the Irish border problem tomorrow there still wouldn't be time to put it into place before Brexit.

 

Just call a general election tomorrow, get rid of this government of idiots and then scrap Brexit completely.  Why do we have to put up with being forced to accept being worse off?

[khunken]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Great timing

Not quite - it's tomorrow. -:)

[dunroaming]

5 minutes ago, khunken said:

Not quite - it's tomorrow. -:)

Better tell them in the pub in the village here.  The carpark is already full of builders vans  and it's not even midday yet.

[evadgib]

16 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Trivial

Hardly; given UK is their closest and greatest trading partner!

[Grouse]

15 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Hardly; given UK is their closest and greatest trading partner!

Sorry, I misunderstood your point. I thought you were talking about direct support for NI from U.K. Coffers

 

on a different topic, I note my subs to Adobe go to Ireland! Something not quite right...

[StreetCowboy]

29 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

...Why do we have to put up with being forced to accept being worse off?

Stiff upper lip, man! It's all part of growing up and being British.

Rough with the smooth, wheat with the chaff, what?

[Jip99]

35 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

When people ticked the boxes they had no idea what they were voting for or the implications.  They were fed bulls*it by both sides and bought it hook, line and sinker.  Rather than facing up to that the Brexiteers choose to just put their fingers in their ears and bury their heads in the sand.

 

Now you have May and her boys rapidly running out of time and still not coming up with any proposals.  If they came up with an answer to the Irish border problem tomorrow there still wouldn't be time to put it into place before Brexit.

 

Just call a general election tomorrow, get rid of this government of idiots and then scrap Brexit completely.  Why do we have to put up with being forced to accept being worse off?

 

 

Because that is democracy.

[dunroaming]

6 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Stiff upper lip, man! It's all part of growing up and being British.

Rough with the smooth, wheat with the chaff, what?

Yes but.........

[dunroaming]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Because that is democracy.

No it isn't.  Democracy doesn't mean if you make a big mistake you have to suck it up and accept it.  In fact that is about as undemocratic as you can get.