Hi all, 

 

I have to renounce my child’s Thai passport in order to get her Hong Kong passport. I don’t know the renounciation process. Please kindly advice. 

 

My child’s birth father is Thai but he has never taken any responsibility as a father including financial responsibility since she was born.  I am from Hong Kong so my child follows me to stay in here and she has a Hong Kong citizenship as well. To get the Hong Kong passport, she needs to renounce her Thai passport. I need to process this urgently because we are planning to live in mainland China. Holding a Thai Passport makes it impossible for my child to get a visa to China due to certain issue. 

 

Please help us and give us advice . Thank you. 

I would start at the Thai embassy (actually a Consulate-General) in HK, they're in Fairmont House, Central.

 

They ought to be able to assist and issue a "declaration of renunciation" (that's what it's called in the UK anyway). Also under UK law, you have to be 18 in order to do this, I expect Thailand has something similar.

 

Their website http://www.thai-consulate.org.hk/web/map_en.php says nothing about renouncing Thai citizenship (not really surprising) but it's still your best starting point.

 

31 minutes ago, HK woman said:

To get the Hong Kong passport, she needs to renounce her Thai passport.

She would be renouncing her Thai citizenship.

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

under UK law, you have to be 18 in order to do this

Yes, this would be making a decision for a child that the later-adult might not give consent to. 

 

@HK woman: In order to preserve all options, I would explain to the Chinese officials that Thailand requires the child become an adult to renounce, but that they will be living with you as a Chinese citizen until that time.

You say the child is Chinese citizen, so you should be able to to just apply for a passport in China? (Just don't tell them that she also has a Thai passport if that's a problem, unless you tell them they won't know?)

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

She would be renouncing her Thai citizenship.

And you state this because you think the Hong Kong Chinese mother is not aware of this?

Actually i think the OP as well as people who answered here are confusing things and didn't read properly:

OP said that her daughter has Thai and Chinese (Hong Kong) Citizenship. And that the daughter has a Thai passport right now.

Then she asked how to renounce a Thai passport. People who replied interpreted this as renounce Thai citizenship, but i think that's not what OP actually meant. Of course if she had to choose between Thai or Chinese citizenship she would choose Chinese.

16 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You say the child is Chinese citizen, so you should be able to to just apply for a passport in China? (Just don't tell them that she also has a Thai passport if that's a problem, unless you tell them they won't know?)

I tend to agree with you. She would just have to be careful if using both passports.

Not sure how thorough immigration in China is but the could notice that she had no entry stamps for here if she traveled directly to here from China to here and used her Thai passport.

To the OP if might be worthwhile to check on how the Chinese law against dual nationalities is written. Some have an exception if a person has the other nationality from birth which the child does have.

 

I’m speculating, but it sounds like the mother needs to naturalise her child as a Chinese citizen. 

 

With the child of a HK resident/Chinese citizen, my understanding is that a child of this person who is born overseas when one of the parents has residency, according to overall Chinese nationality law, they don’t get Chinese nationality.

 

Being a child of HK resident will give them automatic residency rights in HK, but not the right to a HK SAR passport which is reserved for Chinese citizens with HK residency rights. 

 

The HK SAR passport is useful as being Chinese citizens, subject to the correct visa they can then travel and live in the mainland.

 

so the child at present is a HK resident but not a Chinese National. To become a Chinese National they first must renounce all other citizenships, in this case Thai.

 

To the Poster, id approach the Thai consulate in HK to see how this needs to be done. It may be the case they need to wait till the age of majority (20) before they can actually do it. 

Edited March 17, 20188 yr by samran

I have two points to add to what others have written.

 

First, decisions made by parents with respect to their minor children (under 18) are binding in China. They cannot be subsequently challenged when those children become adults.

 

Second, see this:

Quote

Chinese nationals of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region with right of abode in foreign countries may, for the purpose of travelling to other countries and territories, use the relevant documents issued by the foreign governments. However, they will not be entitled to consular protection in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and other parts of the People’s Republic of China on account of their holding the above mentioned documents.

Source: https://www.gov.hk/en/residents/immigration/chinese/law.htm

I take this to mean that a Hong Kong resident can use a Thai passport to travel to Thailand. This differs from the rules for most Chinese nationals.

 

3 hours ago, Bullie said:

And you state this because you think the Hong Kong Chinese mother is not aware of this?

Just clarifying in case she isn’t aware, because there is a big difference between cancelling a passport and renouncing citizenship.

 

Edited March 17, 20188 yr by elviajero

2 hours ago, samran said:

I’m speculating, but it sounds like the mother needs to naturalise her child as a Chinese citizen. 

 

With the child of a HK resident/Chinese citizen, my understanding is that a child of this person who is born overseas when one of the parents has residency, according to overall Chinese nationality law, they don’t get Chinese nationality.

 

Being a child of HK resident will give them automatic residency rights in HK, but not the right to a HK SAR passport which is reserved for Chinese citizens with HK residency rights. 

 

The HK SAR passport is useful as being Chinese citizens, subject to the correct visa they can then travel and live in the mainland.

 

so the child at present is a HK resident but not a Chinese National. To become a Chinese National they first must renounce all other citizenships, in this case Thai.

 

To the Poster, id approach the Thai consulate in HK to see how this needs to be done. It may be the case they need to wait till the age of majority (20) before they can actually do it. 

Yes, that is my case. We can’t wait until she is 20 and hopefully find a proper Thai law which allows my child to renounce her Thai nationality. Also, I can use this law to convince Thai embassy in Hong Kong to treat my daughter’s case as a special case and allow her to renounce her Thai nationality. I have gone through so many troubles in getting a China visa for my child to go to China as the China Visa department wouldn’t consider her as Thai as she is holding a Chinese permanent citizenship and her mum is Chinese, also her so-called birth father is not present for the visa application process. She can’t travel to China like me by applying a special permit for unlimited entry into China because she is holding a Thai passport but not Hong Kong passport.  Therefore, the renounciation of her Thai passport is a must and urgent  in order to ease all the troubles that we are facing . 

 

Please note that her Thai birth father has never wanted to help or even perform his fatherhood duty. My daughter has no wish to live in Thailand as having a father like that is a haunting memories for her. 

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

Actually i think the OP as well as people who answered here are confusing things and didn't read properly:

OP said that her daughter has Thai and Chinese (Hong Kong) Citizenship. And that the daughter has a Thai passport right now.

Then she asked how to renounce a Thai passport. People who replied interpreted this as renounce Thai citizenship, but i think that's not what OP actually meant. Of course if she had to choose between Thai or Chinese citizenship she would choose Chinese.

Yes, my daughter and I have come to the decision to choose Chinese citizenship. We will continue to face difficulties in many issues in life if she is still holding a Thai passport but HK passport. We both can’t take further life stress from this issue anymore. 

 

Just want to say thanks for people’s replies. I truly appreciate your information. 

3 hours ago, HK woman said:

...We can’t wait until she is 20 and hopefully find a proper Thai law which allows my child to renounce her Thai nationality. Also, I can use this law to convince Thai embassy in Hong Kong to treat my daughter’s case as a special case and allow her to renounce her Thai nationality...

 

 

Renunciation of Thai nationality is covered by "Chapter 2. Loss of Thai Nationality" of Thailand's Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1962) as amended.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwNib_gx9zYEWGF4eE1ZYmdKQm8

 

In the case of your daughter, section 15 of the Nationality Act B.E 2508 as amended by the Nationality Act (No.2) B.E. 2535 (1992) appears to be applicable:

 

Quote

Section 15.  Except in the case under Section 14, a person who has Thai nationality
and other nationality, or who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization may, if he desires to
renounce Thai nationality, file an application with the competent official according to such
form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.
The granting or refusal of permission for renunciation of Thai nationality shall lie with
the discretion of the Minister.

According to section 4 of the Nationality Act, "Minister" means the Minister taking charge and control of the execution of this Act. Currently, this is the Minister of Interior (กระทรวงมหาดไทย).

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

 

Renunciation of Thai nationality is covered by "Chapter 2. Loss of Thai Nationality" of Thailand's Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1962) as amended.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwNib_gx9zYEWGF4eE1ZYmdKQm8

 

In the case of your daughter, section 15 of the Nationality Act B.E 2508 as amended by the Nationality Act (No.2) B.E. 2535 (1992) appears to be applicable:

 

According to section 4 of the Nationality Act, "Minister" means the Minister taking charge and control of the execution of this Act. Currently, this is the Minister of Interior (กระทรวงมหาดไทย).

Thanks. I will print out this act and talk with the embassy . 

The Thai Embassy, respectively its consular section, may prefer the original Thai text:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwNib_gx9zYEUXVPWUVpZ013WWc

9 hours ago, samran said:

To the Poster, id approach the Thai consulate in HK to see how this needs to be done. It may be the case they need to wait till the age of majority (20) before they can actually do it. 

If it is allowed before age 20, which is doubtful, wouldn't the fathers permission be required?

48 minutes ago, elviajero said:

If it is allowed before age 20, which is doubtful, wouldn't the fathers permission be required?

 

48 minutes ago, elviajero said:

If it is allowed before age 20, which is doubtful, wouldn't the fathers permission be required?

Her father has never given her any care and financial support since she was born.  He lives in Thailand and we live in Hong Kong. He doesn’t care for her existence. Do we need his permission in this case? 

17 minutes ago, HK woman said:

Her father has never given her any care and financial support since she was born.  He lives in Thailand and we live in Hong Kong. He doesn’t care for her existence. Do we need his permission in this case? 

His care/financial support (lack of) are irrelevant. I don't know if you need his permission or not, but I wouldn't be surprised as your daughter is under 20.

First question I would ask is, where was your daughter born? If in Thailand and your daughter still has her valid Thai passport what I would do is to fly to Thailand and apply at the embassy here in Thailand for a Chinese passport in order for her to be able to fly to and live in china/Hong Kong, not mentioning the fact that she has a Thai passport at all. The fact that you are the mother and have Chinese citizenship and can prove these facts should be enough for her to get the passport issued here in Thailand without the need for her to renounce her Thai citizenship. It’s always good to have two nationalities (or more) these days as you never know when a countries policies change for the worse.

9 hours ago, Falcon said:

First question I would ask is, where was your daughter born? If in Thailand and your daughter still has her valid Thai passport what I would do is to fly to Thailand and apply at the embassy here in Thailand for a Chinese passport in order for her to be able to fly to and live in china/Hong Kong, not mentioning the fact that she has a Thai passport at all. The fact that you are the mother and have Chinese citizenship and can prove these facts should be enough for her to get the passport issued here in Thailand without the need for her to renounce her Thai citizenship. It’s always good to have two nationalities (or more) these days as you never know when a countries policies change for the worse.

She can’t get the Chinese passport unless she give up her Thai passport according to the requirement by the HK immigration department. She only holds the permanent citizenship in here. Holding a Thai passport and live in Hong Kong gives her a lot of trouble especially when we want to travel to other countries. Thai passport needs visa for most of the countries that we travel and her birth father will never present when applying for travel visa for her that makes difficult and impossible. If she follows me to hold a HK passport, we won’t face these difficulties. 

We are quite stress out as we have planned to live in China and now she can’t process her visa from the China Embassy by using Thai passport nor gettting a ten year travel permit to China like me( which all the HK people eligible to get but not her). 

 

10 hours ago, Falcon said:

First question I would ask is, where was your daughter born? If in Thailand and your daughter still has her valid Thai passport what I would do is to fly to Thailand and apply at the embassy here in Thailand for a Chinese passport in order for her to be able to fly to and live in china/Hong Kong, not mentioning the fact that she has a Thai passport at all. The fact that you are the mother and have Chinese citizenship and can prove these facts should be enough for her to get the passport issued here in Thailand without the need for her to renounce her Thai citizenship. It’s always good to have two nationalities (or more) these days as you never know when a countries policies change for the worse.

Doesn’t work that way.

 

Born in Thailand the birth certificate will state the fathers nationality (Thai)  which will make the child ineligible for automatic Chinese citizenship from birth. 

 

HK basically governs itself it sets its own immigration rules.

 

The child has unrestricted PR rights to live and work in HK due to having a HK mother, but she does not (yet) have Chinese citizenship. To get the chinese citizenship, she must first renounce her Thai citizenship - it is their rules. 

 

The problem the mother faces is two-fold. Whether the law allows for this to happen before the child turns 20. Secondly if the mother has sole custody over the child.

 

i suspect that even though the father has never had a role in the child’s life, legally speaking unless the mother gets a court order in Thailand recognising this fact then she will need his involvement.

 

to the mother - how have you been able to get a thai passport for your child all these years? That in normal cases requires BOTH parents to be present when applying.

11 hours ago, HK woman said:

Her father has never given her any care and financial support since she was born.  He lives in Thailand and we live in Hong Kong. He doesn’t care for her existence. Do we need his permission in this case? 

To get around needing his permission you would have to get full parental rights and custody from a Amphoe (district office) here based upon abandonment. You would need proof of it which can be witnesses to the fact.

My daughter’s father is a very calculated and cunning businessman. Everything he plans and thinks ahead of time. He had another woman when I gave birth to my daughter, and he predicted that I would leave him when I found out the truth, so in my daughter’s birth certificate instead of writing down her mother is Chinese, he wrote Thai; he also intentional fill up my name wrongly in her birth certificate ( he didn’t put my full name there, only wrote English name and surname) . Because of this, when we returned to Hong Kong, my daughter has no right to reside in here. I spent ten years to process her HK citizenship. In this ten years, I journey unbearable life suffer and spent so much money just to get her this citizenship. Without my love to my daughter and my strong sense of responsibility and duty as a mother, I would have just given up. 

We decided to give him a chance not so long ago and hopefully he will change to be a better man after all those eleven years passing. We met him and gave him a chance to be a father. He pretended to treasure, but again using his executive strategies and calculated act to spilt us up apart and destroy our relationship. My daughter and I had been quarrelled for a month and my daughter yelled and cried for wanting to kill herself. Do you know how hard it was for me to pass that month? She was happy and cheerful even her father has never presented in her life because I do my best to provide for, care for , love and protect her. But after seeing her birth father for a few days, this man could totally control her mind and create another life story for her. We scare to see this evil man again! 

We are really feeling total hopeless and desperation. To move to China, the main purpose is to start a new life and leave all the sad memories beside and hopefully will never connect to his birth father again. But with a Thai passport, our hope become hopeless again, the connection with his father is forever there. It is like a nightmare that follows you the rest of your life and will never end. 

I am just an ordinary woman and mother. I don’t have special knowledge about laws. I know there maybe some experts in this forum. I am begging for your help for giving me the best law that allows me to talk with Thai embassy in HK and to convince them to help my daughter to renounce her Thai citizenship and grant us to live a life without connecting to her birth father. My daughter and I cried in Thai embassy in HK and begged for the way to solve her problem. We are truly exhausted and can’t talk further stress about this issue again. Please help us! 

 

PS . I edited the post and added this message in, but it said, “ can’t edit” , so I retype it again. Hope it is not a repeat post. 

39 minutes ago, samran said:

Doesn’t work that way.

 

Born in Thailand the birth certificate will state the fathers nationality (Thai)  which will make the child ineligible for automatic Chinese citizenship from birth. 

 

HK basically governs itself it sets its own immigration rules.

 

The child has unrestricted PR rights to live and work in HK due to having a HK mother, but she does not (yet) have Chinese citizenship. To get the chinese citizenship, she must first renounce her Thai citizenship - it is their rules. 

 

The problem the mother faces is two-fold. Whether the law allows for this to happen before the child turns 20. Secondly if the mother has sole custody over the child.

 

i suspect that even though the father has never had a role in the child’s life, legally speaking unless the mother gets a court order in Thailand recognising this fact then she will need his involvement.

 

to the mother - how have you been able to get a thai passport for your child all these years? That in normal cases requires BOTH parents to be present when applying.

I don’t have custody of my child. I wanted to divorce since I found out he has another woman, but I couldn’t. We got married in Thai Embassy in HK, ten years ago, I went to there to ask for a divorce, the embassy told me they couldn’t do it,I have to do it in Thailand and the child father also told me that there is no way for us to divorce. Ten years later, Thai embassy in HK said that we can legally divorce if we both present to sign the paper. 

The child was born in Thailand , so he got Thai passport. I don’t need to present because her birth father handled everything. I was just an ordinary woman trusted my husband and let him take care everything. 

Again, he won’t want any custody for my child either because he doesn’t want any responsibility and financial burden. But he will want to get my child when my child grows up and having a good future which can provide support and benefits to him. 

How old is your daughter?

 

Here is a link of someone detailing the process, you may need to travel to Thailand to obtain some documents. But this person is over the age of 18/20, so won't need parents permission to renounce citizenship. I'm sure the process would be similar for you, but your case is way more complicated. If she is under 18/20 (not sure what is the legal age as adult), you will need the Thai fathers permission / documents sign by him for things to be done. The law in Thailand is very unfair and there is no way around it. If possible I suggest you wait till she is 18/20 if you want to avoid contact with the father and live a peaceful life. 

 

The only quicker way around it is to have sole custody of your daughter, which I'm sure the father won't allow and won't sign the papers to give you sole custody.  Best of luck.

 

https://sopez.wordpress.com/2017/04/17/the-average-singaporeans-guide-to-renouncing-thai-citizenship/

Thank you, Mike. 

So, from what you wrote: You are still married with the father and currently both of you share the custody. The father won't agree to anything.

That's not what you want to hear, but i would suggest you somehow wait until your daughter is an adult and then she can change her citizenship.

 

I would assume that to gain sole custody for your daughter, first you need to get divorced. This will probably take some time, you need to appear in court with witnesses and so on.

Then after you managed to get divorced you can try to get sole custody, which means more court hearings, witnesses, and so on.

And after probably several years in Thai courts you maybe have sole custody, and then you can finally file for the renunciation of her Thai citizenship, which again will take some time.

 

Actually when i was a kid i was in nearly the same situation, but both parents German and a german court and so on, but just so you get some ideas what your husband could do, because this is what my father actually did:

My father never really cared about me, but when i was a kid we "lived" together, which means my father was at home on the weekend. When i was about 8 years old my father brought home another woman, which my mom did not accept, so she filed for divorce and i moved out together with her. Of course my father refused to do this and he started to threaten my mother in many different ways, because he didn't like it that she wanted a divorce.

My mother also filed for sole custody, which does of course include several appointment at the court, everything always prolonged as long as possible by my father. What he also did was to also file for sole custody for me. And of course, as clever as he is, he brought witnesses to the court who stated that my mom was not able to take care of me, and everything else you can imagine that was bad and made it look like the sole custody should go to my dad.

As i said german court, two germans, they gave the custody to my mom.

 

But now imagine this at a Thai court, Thai vs. Foreigner. It seems your husband is clever, he probably knows how courts work way better than you. He maybe knows how to bribe the right people and he will also know how to find witnesses who say what he wants. If you pressure him too much and he goes the way that my father went, it could happen that at the end he is the one who has sole custody for your daughter and you won't see her again until she is 20.

Edited March 19, 20188 yr by jackdd

If you can afford it, hire a private investigator to gather information on your child's father. (Warning: this will be expensive.) There are usually skeletons in the closet of people like that. With the right leverage, you can ensure he signs whatever documents you need to protect yourself and your daughter. Good luck!

Edited March 19, 20188 yr by BritTim