UK Labour leader Corbyn apologises for anti-Semitism in his party‍​

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Regardless, the Palestinians are Semite people and there is no indication at all of Corbyn being an anti-Semite (including throughout his long campaign for a non violent, political solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict and there is plenty of evidence of his fight against all forms of racism.

 

The FACT is, this is a fabricated accusation against Corbyn and Labour and it is playing out exactly as the Tory government are under pressure for actually enacting racist policies against the Windrush generation.

 

FACT.

Regardless?

 

Thank you for owning up to the FACT that you insinuated antisemitism refers to Arabs as it obviously does to Jews. It does not in any way. Antisemitism refers to Jews only.

 

Thank you.  

 

If you or anyone else is still interested in pushing the falsehood about antisemitism referring to Arabs, perhaps this can help you out  --

https://www.jta.org/2018/04/18/news-opinion/world/j-k-rowling-giving-master-class-identifying-anti-semitism-magical

J.K. Rowling

 

✔@jk_rowling

 

 

The 'Arabs are semitic too' hot takes have arrived. #Antisemitism

11:10 PM - Apr 18, 2018

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“Split hairs. Debate etymology,” she said in a tweet attached to a definition of anti-Semitism as “hostility to or prejudice against Jews.” “Gloss over the abuse of your fellow citizens by attacking the actions of another country’s government. Would your response to any other form of racism or bigotry be to squirm, deflect or justify?”

Edited April 26, 2018 by Jingthing

[Chomper Higgot]

Here's an observation:

 

A number of TVF members frequently make statements on this forum regarding deporting foreigners from the UK, others support these comments with 'likes' and supportive comments to the call to deport. 

 

This past month the UK government has been embroiled in a scandal over exactly deporting foreigners (the Windrush Generation), the UK press and media has been full of this story, and as evidenced by the number of posts on TVF calling for deportation of foreigners this is a news item worthy of discussion on TVF.

 

But the Windrush Generation debacle never made it to these pages.

 

An accusation regarding antisemitism in the Labour Party gets full coverage and pages of comments.

 

No Labour government has ever deported Jews or denied them access to medical care, welfare, housing education, legal support.

 

Right now in the UK the Tory government have deported members of the Windrush  Generation and denied others access to medical care, welfare, housing education, legal support.

 

Not an accusation of racism, actual racism in action as government policy.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Regardless?

 

Thank you for owning up to the FACT that you insinuated antisemitism refers to Arabs as it obviously does to Jews. It does not in any way. Antisemitism refers to Jews only.

 

Thank you.  

So where is the antisemitism in the Labour Party or on the part of Corbyn?

 

[jayboy]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Regardless, the Palestinians are Semite people and there is no indication at all of Corbyn being an anti-Semite (including throughout his long campaign for a non violent, political solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict and there is plenty of evidence of his fight against all forms of racism.

 

The FACT is, this is a fabricated accusation against Corbyn and Labour and it is playing out exactly as the Tory government are under pressure for actually enacting racist policies against the Windrush generation.

 

FACT.

Difficult to know whether ignorance or obtuseness predominant here.What is beyond doubt that those who seek to diminish anti Semitism as an issue invariably suggest most of the people in the Middle East are 'Semites", actually a meaningless term.

 

AS to Corbyn few suggest he is anti Semitic.His failure - and it is an appalling one - is that he associates with and tolerates the most vile Jew haters.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So where is the antisemitism in the Labour Party or on the part of Corbyn?

 

OMG -- are you seriously suggesting that antisemitism isn't a problem in the labour party? Bizarre!

Edited April 26, 2018 by Jingthing

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

OMG -- are you seriously suggesting that antisemitism isn't a problem in the labour party? Bizarre!

I didn't say it wasn't a problem.

 

I asked to be shown the evidence. 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Difficult to know whether ignorance or obtuseness predominant here.What is beyond doubt that those who seek to diminish anti Semitism as an issue invariably suggest most of the people in the Middle East are 'Semites", actually a meaningless term.

 

AS to Corbyn few suggest he is anti Semitic.His failure - and it is an appalling one - is that he associates with and tolerates the most vile Jew haters.

Corbyn's 'failure' is he would dramatically change the UK's political and diplomatic stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict. 

 

 

[Thorgal]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Corbyn's 'failure' is he would dramatically change the UK's political and diplomatic stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict. 

 

 

 

That's political suicide nowadays...

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, Thorgal said:

 

That's political suicide nowadays...

Well it is certainly a position that will solicit a robust campaign to undermine those that might place such policies into action.

 

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Well it is certainly a position that will solicit a robust campaign to undermine those that might place such policies into action.

 

 

The robust campaign is already under way, in an attempt to pre-empt him.

[jayboy]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Corbyn's 'failure' is he would dramatically change the UK's political and diplomatic stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict. 

 

 

Usual drivel purporting that the anti Semites in Corbyn's circle are just critics of the policies of the Israel state.Reality is that there are some vile and disgusting Jew haters among Corbyn's close supporters and that is a separate issue from critiizing Israel - which I do myself.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

Usual drivel purporting that the anti Semites in Corbyn's circle are just critics of the policies of the Israel state.Reality is that there are some vile and disgusting Jew haters among Corbyn's close supporters and that is a separate issue from critiizing Israel - which I do myself.

 

 

'Purporting' as in 'something I never actually said but that you wish to attribute to me'.

 

Don't put words in my mouth, tackle me on the statement that I actually made:

 

Corbyn's 'failure' is he would dramatically change the UK's political and diplomatic stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict. 

[jayboy]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

'Purporting' as in 'something I never actually said but that you wish to attribute to me'.

 

Don't put words in my mouth, tackle me on the statement that I actually made:

 

Corbyn's 'failure' is he would dramatically change the UK's political and diplomatic stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict. 

Don't be more of a dullard than you can help.The statement you made betrays the mindset of a slightly dim 70's polytechnic student.

 

But if you insist I'll analyze the commonplace statement and confused statement you made.You are assuming that Labour under Corbyn wins a general election so that it can put a new Middle Eastern policy into place.Broadly speaking it would have a right to do so since it would have a genuine mandate.It would have to spell out in advance exactly what it had in mind.But what would that policy be - to recognise a two state solution? But that is already UK policy.To withdraw diplomatic recognition from Israel? To recognise Palestine as a state? UK has already done that in 2011 but I suppose could go further by supporting full UN membership.

 

Corbyn has already set out his policy.He is an old style not very intelligent lefty but he doesn't support the dramatic anti Israel change you dream about.

 

1.He doesn't support a boycott, divestment or sanctions (BDS)

 

2.He does support action against illegal settlements - already UK policy

 

3.He has said he would be happy to buy Israeli goods.

 

4.His shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry has expressed full support for Israel to defend itself from military assault and terror attacks

 

So what is this dramatic change you are fantasising about?.Corbyn is, despite the fact as shown above he proposes no real change, is far too tolerant of the Jew hating minority in his party - ie the anti Semitic creeps now being exposed.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, jayboy said:

(1) Don't be more of a dullard than you can help.The statement you made betrays the mindset of a slightly dim 70's polytechnic student.

 

(2) But if you insist I'll analyze the commonplace statement and confused statement you made.You are assuming that Labour under Corbyn wins a general election so that it can put a new Middle Eastern policy into place.Broadly speaking it would have a right to do so since it would have a genuine mandate.It would have to spell out in advance exactly what it had in mind.But what would that policy be - to recognise a two state solution? But that is already UK policy.To withdraw diplomatic recognition from Israel? To recognise Palestine as a state? UK has already done that in 2011 but I suppose could go further by supporting full UN membership.

 

(3) Corbyn has already set out his policy.He is an old style not very intelligent lefty but he doesn't support the dramatic anti Israel change you dream about.

 

1.He doesn't support a boycott, divestment or sanctions (BDS)

 

2.He does support action against illegal settlements - already UK policy

 

3.He has said he would be happy to buy Israeli goods.

 

4.His shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry has expressed full support for Israel to defend itself from military assault and terror attacks

 

(4) So what is this dramatic change you are fantasising about?.Corbyn is, despite the fact as shown above he proposes no real change, is far too tolerant of the Jew hating minority in his party - ie the anti Semitic creeps now being exposed.

(1) You open with a personal attack, is that necessary for your line of argument? 

(2) You construct arguments I have not made, straw men you can deal with, why is that necessary for your argument?

(3) You return to a personal attack on Corbyn and add another set of straw men, why is that necessary for your argument?

(4) The dramatic change is to place the rights of the Palestinians into UK policy towards the Israel / Palestine conflict and the enforcement of international law. To break with the pro-Israel lobby and to engage with other middle east parties to the conflict. 

 

Now have another go at engaging with my comment:

 

Corbyn's 'failure' is he would dramatically change the UK's political and diplomatic stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict. 

 

And see if you can do so without personal attacks, putting your words in other people's mouths or resorting to straw men to support your point of view. 

 

Whatever your views on Labour and Israel are, your angry personal attacks are not helping your case. 

[jayboy]

(1) You open with a personal attack, is that necessary for your line of argument? 
(2) You construct arguments I have not made, straw men you can deal with, why is that necessary for your argument?
(3) You return to a personal attack on Corbyn and add another set of straw men, why is that necessary for your argument?
(4) The dramatic change is to place the rights of the Palestinians into UK policy towards the Israel / Palestine conflict and the enforcement of international law. To break with the pro-Israel lobby and to engage with other middle east parties to the conflict. 
 
Now have another go at engaging with my comment:
 
Corbyn's 'failure' is he would dramatically change the UK's political and diplomatic stance on the Israel/Palestine conflict. 
 
And see if you can do so without personal attacks, putting your words in other people's mouths or resorting to straw men to support your point of view. 
 
Whatever your views on Labour and Israel are, your angry personal attacks are not helping your case. 

Ah now we have it.The mask has slipped - “to break with the pro Israel lobby”, that global conspiracy of shady hook nosed capitalists to subvert foreign governments in the interests of Israel.

And by the way check out the thread subject matter.It’s about Jeremy Corbyn apologizing for the Anti Semites his party.

As for your summary of dramatic changes it’s not very dramatic as most of those policies are already in place.You seem to be unaware incidentally unaware that Labour is the traditional Zionist party while Tories tend to be more Arabist.

Your distinctive contribution seems to be your wish to engage more with Hamas and the like.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Khun Han]

18 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

Ah now we have it.The mask has slipped - “to break with the pro Israel lobby”, that global conspiracy of shady hook nosed capitalists to subvert foreign governments in the interests of Israel.

And by the way check out the thread subject matter.It’s about Jeremy Corbyn apologizing for the Anti Semites his party.

As for your summary of dramatic changes it’s not very dramatic as most of those policies are already in place.You seem to be unaware incidentally unaware that Labour is the traditional Zionist party while Tories tend to be more Arabist.

Your distinctive contribution seems to be your wish to engage more with Hamas and the like.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

Aside from your childish determination to turn the conversation racist and ugly, are you really suggesting that countries don't have lobbying interests, some very powerful and persuasive?

[jayboy]

10 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Aside from your childish determination to turn the conversation racist and ugly, are you really suggesting that countries don't have lobbying interests, some very powerful and persuasive?

Silly post.All countries naturally do what they can to preserve their interests but it is one of the distinctive characteristics of anti Semites and Jew haters to posit a grasping international Jewish conspiracy.The Nazis did it openly.These days the anti Semites speak in more cautious terms but the dog whistle can usually be detected.

 

It is both comical and nuts that you think a robust criticism of racism/anti Semitism is somehow "racist and ugly".You're looking in the wrong direction.

[Khun Han]

9 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Silly post.All countries naturally do what they can to preserve their interests but it is one of the distinctive characteristics of anti Semites and Jew haters to posit a grasping international Jewish conspiracy.The Nazis did it openly.These days the anti Semites speak in more cautious terms but the dog whistle can usually be detected.

 

It is both comical and nuts that you think a robust criticism of racism/anti Semitism is somehow "racist and ugly".You're looking in the wrong direction.

 

You need to slow down (a lot!). The only poster going on about Jewish conspiracies in this discussion (and in a very childish and ugly way) is yourself. Chomper merely pointed out that Corbyn would be likely to turn away from Israeli lobbying.

[jayboy]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

You need to slow down (a lot!). The only poster going on about Jewish conspiracies in this discussion (and in a very childish and ugly way) is yourself. Chomper merely pointed out that Corbyn would be likely to turn away from Israeli lobbying.

Oh sure.You're not fooling most people.

 

And don't be dishonest about what Chomper said.He said the Corbyn government would break away from the pro Israeli lobby - i.e all Jews who believe in the right of Israel to exist (unlike Corbyn's friends Hamas)

 

Nothing here suggests critics of Israel should not have every right to speak out - and in doing so does not remotely become anti Semitic.

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, jayboy said:

Oh sure.You're not fooling most people.

 

And don't be dishonest about what Chomper said.He said the Corbyn government would break away from the pro Israeli lobby - i.e all Jews who believe in the right of Israel to exist (unlike Corbyn's friends Hamas)

 

Nothing here suggests critics of Israel should not have every right to speak out - and in doing so does not remotely become anti Semitic.

 

You continue to project your nonsense onto another poster's entirely fair opinion. Astonishing!

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

 

Ah now we have it.The mask has slipped - “to break with the pro Israel lobby”, that global conspiracy of shady hook nosed capitalists to subvert foreign governments in the interests of Israel.

And by the way check out the thread subject matter.It’s about Jeremy Corbyn apologizing for the Anti Semites his party.

As for your summary of dramatic changes it’s not very dramatic as most of those policies are already in place.You seem to be unaware incidentally unaware that Labour is the traditional Zionist party while Tories tend to be more Arabist.

Your distinctive contribution seems to be your wish to engage more with Hamas and the like.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

I've highlighted your interpretation of the pro-israel lobby. 

 

Your words, don't try to pin them on me.

 

Once again you give us an example of your seething anger and eagerness to sling accusations of racism/anti-semitism at people who disagree with you.

 

The fact that you have to make up anti-Semitic comments and attribute these to people who have said no such thing is an indication of how poor your argument is. 

[jayboy]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I've highlighted your interpretation of the pro-israel lobby. 

 

Your words, don't try to pin them on me.

 

Once again you give us an example of your seething anger and eagerness to sling accusations of racism/anti-semitism at people who disagree with you.

 

The fact that you have to make up anti-Semitic comments and attribute these to people who have said no such thing is an indication of how poor your argument is. 

I wasn't pinning the words on you.I was simply repeating one of the unfortunately common tropes of the anti Semites, an example of which (the picture of cartoonish Jews conspiring round a table) recently embarrassed Jeremy Corbyn.

[jayboy]

18 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You continue to project your nonsense onto another poster's entirely fair opinion. Astonishing!

In other words you take a different view.

 

But what's astonishing to me at least is how apparently decent people let evil slide by.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, jayboy said:

I wasn't pinning the words on you.I was simply repeating one of the unfortunately common tropes of the anti Semites, an example of which (the picture of cartoonish Jews conspiring round a table) recently embarrassed Jeremy Corbyn.

No jayboy, you were pinning the words on me.

 

Wind your anger in and come back with some reasoned and respectful arguments. You might win people over.

 

As it is you are projecting seething anger. 

[jayboy]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No jayboy, you were pinning the words on me.

 

Wind your anger in and come back with some reasoned and respectful arguments. You might win people over.

 

As it is you are projecting seething anger. 

I am afraid you will just have to accept what I say about this.

 

Personally I believe the current surge in anti Semitism in the British Labour party and the leadership's shameful lack of action is worth getting angry about.

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I am afraid you will just have to accept what I say about this.

 

Personally I believe the current surge in anti Semitism in the British Labour party and the leadership's shameful lack of action is worth getting angry about.

I don't have to accept what you say Jayboy, not without evidence that you are correct.

 

This 'surge in anti Semitism in the British Labour party' to which you refer, where's the evidence of this 'surge'?

 

 

[jayboy]

22 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don't have to accept what you say Jayboy, not without evidence that you are correct.

 

This 'surge in anti Semitism in the British Labour party' to which you refer, where's the evidence of this 'surge'?

 

 

You are welcome to believe what you like But please allow me to be the authority on what I said and what I meant.

 

As to the current surge in anti Semitism in the Labour party under Corbyn's "leadership" you are again welcome to believe what you like.Perhaps it doesn't exist it all.Perhaps it's just Jeremy's Tory lite opponents within the party's efforts  to smear and undermine him.Some people believe that.You are welcome to believe it too.

[Khun Han]

32 minutes ago, jayboy said:

You are welcome to believe what you like But please allow me to be the authority on what I said and what I meant.

 

As to the current surge in anti Semitism in the Labour party under Corbyn's "leadership" you are again welcome to believe what you like.Perhaps it doesn't exist it all.Perhaps it's just Jeremy's Tory lite opponents within the party's efforts  to smear and undermine him.Some people believe that.You are welcome to believe it too.

 

Whilst there's no doubt that the Blairites are making hay over this, there is no evidence of them being involved in a wider conspiracy. Is anyone in the mainstream claiming that?

[jayboy]

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Whilst there's no doubt that the Blairites are making hay over this, there is no evidence of them being involved in a wider conspiracy. Is anyone in the mainstream claiming that?

Er, yes

 

http://mondoweiss.net/2018/03/jeremy-semitism-hysteria/

 

It's interesting that some of the wackier conspiracy theories are of Jewish origin themselves... but that's another story and one too complex and nuanced for this forum.

 

I was going to take issue with your unwittingly revealing comment about Blairites making hay - but I began to suffer from what fighter pilots call target confusion.

[midas]

20 hours ago, dexterm said:

It is constantly hyped up in the news almost daily rehashing events of weeks/months/years ago, because a certain foreign power is orchestrating a campaign to undermine Corbyn because of his stance against the abuse of human and civil rights by that same foreign power. 

Corbyn has apologized for any actions by Labor members, suspended and expelled some, set up investigations, read the riot act to anyone who may display anti semitism, met with Jewish leaders to work out how to confront the issue. Good lord..I don't know what else the man can do.

Interestingly the UK conservative parties who may harbor some serious anti semites never get this sort of targeted treatment. It's all part of a very nasty campaign to prevent Corbyn becoming PM, and his influence in foreign policy that may entail.

 

I suggest you view "The Lobby" available on Youtube to see how a certain foreign power operates to manipulate UK politics.

" I suggest you view "The Lobby" available on Youtube to see how a certain foreign power operates to manipulate UK politics "

 

Un freaking believable !!

Well I certainly don't feel so uneducated about this anymore! Thank you for directing me to that and thank goodness for Al Jazeera!

Has anyone in the British media exposed these revelations? Has any talk show host in the UK explained to the British public what's going on ? I'm sure there wouldn't be many working people in the UK (because of time pressure  )would understand how this kind of manipulation against Jeremy Corbyn is being carried out.

I don't know about you but the positive side of rehashing events over weeks and months is at least it keeps it in the public eye which a certain foreign power would probably find most inconvenient if the British public take the time to understand these underhanded practices.  

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by midas