Pattaya expat threatened with jail after posting negative restaurant review online

[bristolgeoff]

for sure the pattaya grape vine will know the restaurant and location.maybe not in print .you just have to ask around town and you will find out soon enough

[balo]

Don't worry and continue to post your opinions online. As long it is not critical comments about the kingdom , you can post most stuff without worrying. The restaurant owner in question is a big axxxhole , unfortunately TV choose to not publish his name.

[Basil B]

22 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

Not in Thailand.

 

Even when telling the thruth you could end up in jail.

Telling the truth is not a crime, but the one has to be able to prove it is true.

 

Having an opinion seems to be a grey area, seems to me at times having an opinion that differs from someone else can be a crime, the biggest example of this is the  lèse-majesté laws and restrictions on political activists..

[brucegoniners]

What a bunch of crap. Because one guy doesn't like a restaurant and you do you're going to harass him?

 

Some of these people have way too much time on their hands.

 

Also this FB group should ban anyone who took part in these actions.

[Crash999]

10 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Very simple solution. Post the situation to other websites outside of Thailand and let the world react. Such threats are useless against sites such as Trip Adviser as they are hosted outside Thailand.

That would prevent the review from being taken down but unfortunately wouldn’t stop the restaurant owner from filing a defamation case against the author. 

[Mattd]

In reality the restaurant owner's actions are doing far more damage than any post on Breakfast Club Pattaya could ever do by pursuing legal action, if indeed this is the case, from what was posted in BCP, then it was more than just the threat of legal action, there seems to have been talk of physical persuasion as well!!

Edited March 27, 2018 by Mattd

[Pattaya28]

So only "positive" reviews are allowed ? 

If this is the case, then this leaves the entire group of 40,000 worthless.

 

[Lupatria]

1 hour ago, Anythingleft? said:

Defamation, which is a criminal offence in Thailand, is punishable by up to two years in jail.

Commentators have said previously that Thailand’s strict defamation laws have been used as a weapon by the powerful to silence critics.



This law in its current presentation is crippling Thailand from moving forward...

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

I don't see any attempt to move forward here. Unfortunately there is not enough space here to give examples of topics where the country goes backward.

[Pattaya28]

When you "check-in" to a restaurant on Facebook, a day or 2 later, Facebook asks for a "review" of this restaurant automatically.

So what is the position ? 

Only a positive review is allowed ?

A negative review can land you in jail ?

"Democracy" at its' best !!

[Hooliganzone]

An expat in Pattaya has been harassed, bullied and threatened with legal action after posting a negative restaurant review on Facebook.

 

I don't know what restaurant it is. But it sounds Thai owned...

[realenglish1]

I would love to know which restaurant it is  I want to make sure I do not go there Not because of the bad review as many restaurants get good and bad reviews but because they have threatened legal action against one of its patrons

 

It's the same when a Mazda  is suing its customers because they had been

critical of the brand saying there are some defects in the car

If something is true how can it be defamation? I am in the market for a new car however

because of these suites, I am now not going to consider Mazda Same thoughts are about the Restaurant

It hurts them more then helps them They are foolish

[dutchweller]

Having recently been in the courts after being accused of (Verbal) defamation.

 

I can safely say most people who make the accusation of defamation do not know the law fully and most of the time it is thrown out of court as my case was..

 

Most accusations of defamation is just used as a threat and those who do not understand the law in full fall for it and either pay unnecessarily out of court or issue a retraction and apology.

 

Here are some points from the Thai Defamation laws

Section 330. Truth as a Defense

 

In case of defamation, if the person prosecuted for defamation can prove that the imputation made by him is true, he shall not be punished. But he shall not be allowed to prove if such imputation concerns personal matters, and such proof will not be benefit to the public.

 

But in this case as the statement was made online it would come under the following

Section 328. Defamation by Publication

 

If the offence of defamation be committed by means of publication of a document, drawing, painting, cinematography film, picture or letters made visible by any means, gramophone record or another recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means, the offender shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years and fined not exceeding two hundred thousand Baht.

 

If the case did proceeded (Unlikely) and the the Accused is convicted  the defamed will also have to prove a financial loss and will be awarded reparation to the amount losses up to  200,000..

 

I would say it is highly unlikely that the Accuser will proceed as he/she would have to hire a lawyer to file the official proceeding.

I would say more than likely this is a bluff by the  restaurant  to have the review retracted and try and bee remunerated by intimidation  for their loss of face..

 

Also I would point to point 3 below as a rebuttal to the accusations.. 

Section 329. Good Faith Statement

 

A person, in good faith, expresses any opinion or a statement:

1. By way of self-justification or defense, or for the protection of a legitimate interest;
2. In the status of being an official in the exercise of his functions;
3. By way of fair comment on any person or thing subjected to public criticism; or
4. By way of fair report of the open proceeding of any Court or meeting

shall not be guilty of defamation.

 

 

 

Referanced from 

http://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/criminal-code-defamation-sections-326-333/

 

[manarak]

what's wrong with reporters again ?

"over 40.000 members"

I check on facebook - 37846 members.

 

 

[dutchweller]

25 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Telling the truth is not a crime, but the one has to be able to prove it is true.

Correct 

But also the defamed would have to prove a loss 

 

[wedders]

Interestingly I'm eating in the very same restaurant right now....

[007cableguy]

Hypocrisy and "face saving".
Two characteristics that keep this country down.
How can you improve without facing the truth?
I could hardly believe the verdict of the Andy Hall case.

I just read about his verdict which made the news all over but haven't seen it on Thai visa!
Seems strange as it made international news!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

41 minutes ago, Mattd said:

I am a member of this Facebook group and saw the original post about this made by the group's founder, it in turn generated a lot of posts by members, asking for the restaurant to be named and shamed (the moderators had removed the original post for legal reasons) the moderators have said they will not post the restaurant name, this is due to legal worries.

 her their business, it deserves nothing less!

 

So, what's your idea.... do you think many members of the group actually know now what the particular restaurant involved is?  Or, most are in the dark like those of us on the outside of all this?

 

I'd certainly hope the word somehow manages to get around to the locals there, as they'd be the potential customers who, presumably, would now avoid that place like the plague.

 

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, manarak said:

what's wrong with reporters again ?

"over 40.000 members"

I check on facebook - 37846 members.

 

 

40,171 to be exact 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, 007cableguy said:

I just read about his verdict which made the news all over but haven't seen it on Thai visa!
Seems strange as it made international news!

 

There's a thread on it here. Been active all morning.

 

[balo]

An expat in Pattaya has been harassed, bullied and threatened with legal action after posting a negative restaurant review on Facebook.
 
I don't know what restaurant it is. But it sounds Thai owned...

Wrong , it's a farang owned place, think he is an American.

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So, what's your idea.... do you think many members of the group actually know now what the particular restaurant involved is?  Or, most are in the dark like those of us on the outside of all this?

The majority are in the dark, some know but are yet to say anything.

The argument back has been to name the restaurant, so that people can avoid it.

[Mattd]

1 minute ago, balo said:

Wrong , it's a farang owned place, think he is an American.

That would narrow it down quite a bit.

[wedders]

The review in question was also posted to the FB food review group Thailand Wine And Dine.

 

Here is their take on this issue

 

"On DEFAMATION

Recently a member who posted identical reviews to our group and to another FB food forum was threatened with legal action by the restaurant owner concerned.

This is the Thailand Wine & Dine group’s long-standing position on this issue.

1. The reviewer posted a largely negative but heart-felt and factual review, as he always does. It also included positives about the establishment and the meal. I know the reviewer personally and I consider him to be an honest and upstanding individual. His review in my opinion was perfectly acceptable.

2. Thailand Wine & Dine rigorously deletes all hatchet jobs, and any reviews clearly instigated or encouraged by competitors. We have our ways of knowing which are which.

3. Thailand Wine & Dine polices comments with the same rigour. There is no room for trolling buffoons on our group. Honest, informative views and constructive criticism are welcome.

4. Owners and restaurant managers without exception have expressed to me in private just how our group stands head and shoulders above the rest in this respect. For obvious reasons they can’t say this in public, and ‘likes’ to this post will be monitored by those with nothing better to do. The one FB food group set up to support quality food businesses and genuine local food lovers and visitors to Thailand, with no agenda, no kick-backs, no exclusions, and no bias whatsoever - irrespective of the admins personal feelings. These businesses in 99% of cases take the rough with the smooth, and deal with negative reviews in a sensible, constructive manner. They realise that negative criticism can be turned to their advantage with the right response.

5. Finally and most important. Defamation laws in Thailand have previously been notoriously harsh in favouring the allegedly defamed, irrespective of the factual basis of any public criticism. This has changed somewhat. As of recently the truthful nature of a comment on a public service or product is now a defence in defamation cases. The updated law (relevant sections) reads as follows:-

“Section 329. Good Faith Statement

A person, in good faith, expresses any opinion or a statement:

By way of self-justification or defense, or for the protection of a legitimate interest;
In the status of being an official in the exercise of his functions;
BY WAY OF FAIR COMMENT ON ANY PERSON OR THING SUBJECTED TO PUBLIC CRITICISM;
or
By way of fair report of the open proceeding of any Court or meeting

shall not be guilty of defamation.”

“Section 330. Truth as a Defense

In case of defamation, IF THE PERSON PROSECUTED FOR DEFAMATION CAN PROVE THAT THE IMPUTATION MADE BY HIM IS TRUE, HE SHALL NOT BE PUNISHED. But he shall not be allowed to prove if such imputation concerns personal matters, and such proof will not be benefit to the public.”

TO CONCLUDE

It is a costly and lengthy process to take a claim to court, and in the vast majority of cases these are just empty threats. In our view any business subject to fair and honest criticism would do better expending its energies on better communication and improvements within its operations, where appropriate."

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Mattd said:

The majority are in the dark, some know but are yet to say anything.

The argument back has been to name the restaurant, so that people can avoid it.

 

Sorry to hear that. I do hope the word gets around.

 

Under the circumstances, I certainly can understand people who know being reluctant to publicly post explicitly about that particular place and its threats.

 

But that doesn't mean the word can't end up circulating thru other means.

 

 

[outsider]

The restaurant owner could have addressed the situation more positively - use the same platform (social media), invite the expat to go back so the owner can personally see to it that the customer gets what he was expecting (within reason) and turn the whole episode into a positive spin. And win more customers. Instead, he has chosen to do it the Thai way - silencing critics with threats of violence, lawsuit etc. His stupidity and childishness may just cost him the very thing he is trying to protect - his restaurant.

 

Speaking of silencing critics and strict defamation laws, our neighbour Malaysia has just tabled an 'Anti-Fake News Bill 2018' in what is seen as a thinly-veiled attempt at silencing critics and coverage on anything negative on the Malaysian government - including its well-publicised financial scandals etc. Who determines what fake news is? The government. See the point? It seems this new law will also enable the Malaysian authorities to catch and prosecute 'offenders' of other nationalities in other countries though I have no idea how the hell that is going to work and who the hell Malaysia thinks it is.

 

I guess Malaysia and Thailand are in a race to win the 'Most Oppressive State' award.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, wedders said:

The review in question was also posted to the FB food review group Thailand Wine And Dine.

 

Here is their take on this issue

 

 

Thanks for posting that... Useful info to know.

[manarak]

10 minutes ago, Mattd said:

40,171 to be exact 

[dutchweller]

2 minutes ago, wedders said:

The review in question was also posted to the FB food review group Thailand Wine And Dine.

 

Here is their take on this issue

 

"On DEFAMATION

Recently a member who posted identical reviews to our group and to another FB food forum was threatened with legal action by the restaurant owner concerned.

This is the Thailand Wine & Dine group’s long-standing position on this issue.

1. The reviewer posted a largely negative but heart-felt and factual review, as he always does. It also included positives about the establishment and the meal. I know the reviewer personally and I consider him to be an honest and upstanding individual. His review in my opinion was perfectly acceptable.

2. Thailand Wine & Dine rigorously deletes all hatchet jobs, and any reviews clearly instigated or encouraged by competitors. We have our ways of knowing which are which.

3. Thailand Wine & Dine polices comments with the same rigour. There is no room for trolling buffoons on our group. Honest, informative views and constructive criticism are welcome.

4. Owners and restaurant managers without exception have expressed to me in private just how our group stands head and shoulders above the rest in this respect. For obvious reasons they can’t say this in public, and ‘likes’ to this post will be monitored by those with nothing better to do. The one FB food group set up to support quality food businesses and genuine local food lovers and visitors to Thailand, with no agenda, no kick-backs, no exclusions, and no bias whatsoever - irrespective of the admins personal feelings. These businesses in 99% of cases take the rough with the smooth, and deal with negative reviews in a sensible, constructive manner. They realise that negative criticism can be turned to their advantage with the right response.

5. Finally and most important. Defamation laws in Thailand have previously been notoriously harsh in favouring the allegedly defamed, irrespective of the factual basis of any public criticism. This has changed somewhat. As of recently the truthful nature of a comment on a public service or product is now a defence in defamation cases. The updated law (relevant sections) reads as follows:-

“Section 329. Good Faith Statement

A person, in good faith, expresses any opinion or a statement:

By way of self-justification or defense, or for the protection of a legitimate interest;
In the status of being an official in the exercise of his functions;
BY WAY OF FAIR COMMENT ON ANY PERSON OR THING SUBJECTED TO PUBLIC CRITICISM;
or
By way of fair report of the open proceeding of any Court or meeting

shall not be guilty of defamation.”

“Section 330. Truth as a Defense

In case of defamation, IF THE PERSON PROSECUTED FOR DEFAMATION CAN PROVE THAT THE IMPUTATION MADE BY HIM IS TRUE, HE SHALL NOT BE PUNISHED. But he shall not be allowed to prove if such imputation concerns personal matters, and such proof will not be benefit to the public.”

TO CONCLUDE

It is a costly and lengthy process to take a claim to court, and in the vast majority of cases these are just empty threats. In our view any business subject to fair and honest criticism would do better expending its energies on better communication and improvements within its operations, where appropriate."

Your assessment of the current Defamation laws is correct to my experiences

Truth as a Defense

Good Faith Statement

Are exactly the clauses the accusation of defamation against me was thrown out of court on..

 

 

 

[JSixpack]

28 minutes ago, Hooliganzone said:

An expat in Pattaya has been harassed, bullied and threatened with legal action after posting a negative restaurant review on Facebook.

 

I don't know what restaurant it is. But it sounds Thai owned...

 

Happens everywhere, nothing in the least unusual. Why does it sound Thai owned?

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=negative+reviewers+harassed+threatened&gws_rd=cr&hl=en&num=30

 

 

[Mattd]

3 minutes ago, manarak said: