Pattaya expat threatened with jail after posting negative restaurant review online

[Skeptic7]

15 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

What a sad state of affairs and what a sad reflection on Thailand. All shim sham and face. 

 

Next is don't criticize the football team?  music? beer?

This IS Thailand nowadays. A sad Police State of affairs. Overly sensitive and thin skinned, hypocrtical, way too easily offended and outraged while personal liberties and free speech are disappearing or flat out not permitted. 

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There are thousands of restaurants in Pattaya. Nobody can realistically eat at a high percentage of them, even me, and I do try. The public depends on information provided by people that HAVE eaten at places. Mature restaurant owners understand that they will be getting some negative reviews and also understand that's not a big deal and that the public to filter that in context of other comments. If a restaurant is getting mostly negative comments, they had best look into their operation rather than irrationally lash out at others.

Exactly and exactly the point behind the Facebook group, you do learn to filter out the negative comments that are obviously biased, especially the comments involving price, comparisons with the UK etc.

In this day and age it is pretty much essential that restaurant owners understand that social media reviews are part of their business and the ones that do are the ones that can turn a negative review to their advantage and benefit.

[transam]

1 hour ago, Sprigger said:

I walked past this very same restaurant last night and shouted your chicken is rubbery, owner replied thank you very much mister.

Noooo, it was "Cluck off"....

[wedders]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Great!

Could you or someone else PM me the name of this restaurant. I won't publicize it. I just want to avoid reviewing them! Intimidation works!

I think like most of these situations, it has been blown out of all proportion. I enjoyed my meal, and enjoyed a lengthy chat with the owner. Hopefully by tomorrow the whole thing will have been sorted amicably.

 

In the meantime please feel free to enjoy reviews on Thailand Wine And Dine where there is far more sensible discussion about this topic, and reviews on this amongst other restaurants that don't involve hyperbole, conspiracy theories, wild guesses and crazy assumptions.

[electric]

Somebody in the Breakfast Club needs to email a Whitehouse staffer with this story. Tag it as "Private & Confidential"

 

The whole story, including names etc, will be on CNN tomorrow.

[lagavulin1]

4 hours ago, crazykopite said:

I will keep my thoughts to myself ! yet another reason why I will never visit Pattaya.

Not just Patts though is it ? Didn't  somebody report that a certain car company was threatening to sue some buyers for complaining about the quality of their cars ??

Never heard how that resolved itself.

[Internatltraveler]

Midas,

I did not write my "unique perspective" to defend all that happens, anywhere. I am not in the position to know all the facts of any criminal actions anywhere here, so do you expect someone who only reads a media article about anything being able to render a legal opinion on any action? This is what I am talking about....we read an article with the spin the media puts onto it and then we formulate an uneducated opinion that is mostly critical about something that may or may not have been reported accurately or not in its entirety with the intention of getting more readers or provoking some action based on the agenda of the writer.

 

Until you factually and objectively know the facts about any case you are referring to it is best to keep our mouth closed and do sufficient research acting on behalf of an independent investigator to formulate our belief. That is what any justice system is supposed to be based on isn't it? We do not often agree in total to any criminal action in any country that is a high profile case. Often it is not the crime that is being prosecuted anyway, it is the system that is being tested. Even in systems that offer innocence till proven guilty, this is not the whole case. Prisons are loaded with cases that were found guilty who have proven later to be totally innocent but many criminals slide out of the case simply by challenging the system of its rigid compliance guidelines in presenting a case.

 

Things are rarely as simply as we would like them to be and to offer comments that have minimal basis in reality only show us our own ignorance and misunderstanding of the law or guidelines of proof in whatever country we live in. Not all countries adhere to the idea of innocent to proven guilty of the English standard. Look at international laws that require the proof of innocence rather than the proof of guilt and you will not agree with the way they approach the law, but their laws do not comply to the same standards.

 

As you know the junta here has its own set of standards that it has to adhere to the best it can even with corruption issues and time tested issues that it deals with. We as foreigners may agree or disagree but these rules are what they are. If we do not want to comply then the gates are open for our departure. We are only guests in Thailand and are obligated to adhere to the laws regardless of who impose those laws, be it a military junta, a democratic government or a socialistic or communist one. We have choices and one of those choices is to understand a country that expressing our opinions may be forbidden then we best understand the seriousness of the violations we knowingly are creating. If we were citizens then maybe we would have a better position to challenge the system but otherwise we are just seen as trouble makers that can be expelled out of the system.

 

I do not agree with a lot of things in some countries I have lived in but I still comply with the laws, plain and simple. I choose to live a happy and joyful life as much as I can instead of destroying my happiness by fighting battles that cannot be won by me. I have learned to accept things that I cannot change and to make an effort to change the things that I can when I have the power and ability to do so. That is simply a wisdom that comes from the lack of good judgement in my years of living. You live as you wish and understand that the consequences of your actions and beliefs are your responsibility to live with, no one else's. You are always free to make choices in life. I choose to live in harmony as much as I can and to adapt to where I live and I intend to live as long as I can by adapting to my environment and controlling my perceptions because that is all I really have ultimate control of anyway..there is always a choice on what road we take.

 

Thanks for sharing your comments.

[timewilltell]

4 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Very simple solution. Post the situation to other websites outside of Thailand and let the world react. Such threats are useless against sites such as Trip Adviser as they are hosted outside Thailand.

Well no.  Actually the offended party can bring an action where he first knows about it.  Under Thai law you can sue either where you say you were or in the area of the offending party's domicile.  In practice, this will mean wherever it is convenient for the case bringer to say he saw the defaming post.  Unlike the UK, for example, the defendant cannot transfer the case back to his home to save costs without the consent of the court which just does not happen.  Posting outside does not help the person posting or protect him, unless he is outside Thailand and stays there for the limitation period (arrest on entry likely if a case is filed and he is not here).  He will not even know it is filed as you can serve papers at any recent (meaning several years) last address allegedly known (even if you know the defendant is in fact somewhere else).  The courts accept pretty much every case with or without evidence on the basis that every person has a right to bring a case.  The defendant has no rights to save costs by demanding the case is served locally to him - and cases can be brought privately for criminal or civil matters.  This is a huge hole in the system since defendants can be financially ruined simply by bringing cases all around the country - Ask Andrew Drummond about that.

 

For all the written stuff about defendants rights, in reality you are screwed and particularly if you are a foreigner and someone wants to shut you up or cause you millions of baht of wasted costs.  You never get anywhere near your legal fees back - win or lose - and are on a hiding to nothing. Of course, the laws are there for the use of the government but abused by everyone else in the process.  I see Malaysia is contemplating something similar.  It's 1984 folks.

[Jingthing]

Again, clearly there are some people on this thread that know the name of this restaurant. I really want to know the name. PLEASE PM me with the name. I'm not on FB. 

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, mcdiddly said:

The definition of defamation is; the action of damaging the good reputation of someone; slander or libel. Slander and libel is based on the legal primis that the statement is false. An opinion is subjective. 

The truth is not a defence in the Thai legal system. My policy is to say nothing, and not go back.

[PhonThong]

4 hours ago, Mattd said:

I am a member of this Facebook group and saw the original post about this made by the group's founder, it in turn generated a lot of posts by members, asking for the restaurant to be named and shamed (the moderators had removed the original post for legal reasons) the moderators have said they will not post the restaurant name, this is due to legal worries.

 

I personally did not see the post, but have read thousands of reviews on the group, some good, bad, terrible, etc. 

The whole purpose of the group is to let members review restaurants and other food outlets, not just in Pattaya, but anywhere in the world.

 

In general it works well and does give some insight in to the food scene and what is good or bad, like all chat type groups, you can take some comments with a pinch of salt.

 

Everybody should be entitled to an opinion and not everyone will agree with it, especially when it comes to food and service.

Unfortunately Thailand has not quite developed to the stage of being mature enough to accept criticism, hence the stupid defamation laws.

 

The restaurant owner must be easily upset if going to take legal action, personally I hope it costs him or her their business, it deserves nothing less!

I guess then that this restaurant is not on Trip Advisor or some other travel site. Because the rules of those sites stipulate that they must allow reviews. They then are allowed to answer it and agree or disagree with the reviewer.  I think if someone knows the name of this restaurant, they should check and see if it is a member of a travel site and if so, report them. 

[HLover]

Could someone for the love of Christ be creative and just name the bar using Pig Latin?

Your welcome.

 

Amateurs.

[Jingthing]

It's a restaurant. 

[Dap]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Again, clearly there are some people on this thread that know the name of this restaurant. I really want to know the name. PLEASE PM me with the name. I'm not on FB. 

See post #105

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Dap said:

See post #105

Thanks but no thanks.

That was a joke.

Others, don't waste your time looking there. 

I'm just asking for a PM. Won't be posting it. 

[wedders]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Again, clearly there are some people on this thread that know the name of this restaurant. I really want to know the name. PLEASE PM me with the name. I'm not on FB. 

As I said above there's a chance the whole thing will be quickly resolved, here's hoping common sense rapidly prevails. After a chat with both parties I have a good idea how this situation probably arose, and it would be very sad if the situation degenerated further in the circumstances.

[Jingthing]

Just now, wedders said:

As I said above there's a chance the whole thing will be quickly resolved, here's hoping common sense rapidly prevails. After a chat with both parties I have a good idea how this situation probably arose, and it would be very sad if the situation degenerated further in the circumstances.

I still want to know the name if you don't mind. 

[Dap]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Thanks but no thanks.

That was a joke.

Others, don't waste your time looking there. 

I'm just asking for a PM. Won't be posting it. 

A thousand pardons 

[wedders]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I still want to know the name if you don't mind. 

If it comes out it comes out but I would rather those involved had the chance to sort it first. Sorry. 

[Xaos]

It wouldn't be worth for restaurant to take it to court as it cost money's. Pay lawyers and takes time, bluffs

[mrmicbkktxl]

1 hour ago, Internatltraveler said:

Midas,

I did not write my "unique perspective" to defend all that happens, anywhere. I am not in the position to know all the facts of any criminal actions anywhere here, so do you expect someone who only reads a media article about anything being able to render a legal opinion on any action? This is what I am talking about....we read an article with the spin the media puts onto it and then we formulate an uneducated opinion that is mostly critical about something that may or may not have been reported accurately or not in its entirety with the intention of getting more readers or provoking some action based on the agenda of the writer.

 

Until you factually and objectively know the facts about any case you are referring to it is best to keep our mouth closed and do sufficient research acting on behalf of an independent investigator to formulate our belief. That is what any justice system is supposed to be based on isn't it? We do not often agree in total to any criminal action in any country that is a high profile case. Often it is not the crime that is being prosecuted anyway, it is the system that is being tested. Even in systems that offer innocence till proven guilty, this is not the whole case. Prisons are loaded with cases that were found guilty who have proven later to be totally innocent but many criminals slide out of the case simply by challenging the system of its rigid compliance guidelines in presenting a case.

 

Things are rarely as simply as we would like them to be and to offer comments that have minimal basis in reality only show us our own ignorance and misunderstanding of the law or guidelines of proof in whatever country we live in. Not all countries adhere to the idea of innocent to proven guilty of the English standard. Look at international laws that require the proof of innocence rather than the proof of guilt and you will not agree with the way they approach the law, but their laws do not comply to the same standards.

 

As you know the junta here has its own set of standards that it has to adhere to the best it can even with corruption issues and time tested issues that it deals with. We as foreigners may agree or disagree but these rules are what they are. If we do not want to comply then the gates are open for our departure. We are only guests in Thailand and are obligated to adhere to the laws regardless of who impose those laws, be it a military junta, a democratic government or a socialistic or communist one. We have choices and one of those choices is to understand a country that expressing our opinions may be forbidden then we best understand the seriousness of the violations we knowingly are creating. If we were citizens then maybe we would have a better position to challenge the system but otherwise we are just seen as trouble makers that can be expelled out of the system.

 

I do not agree with a lot of things in some countries I have lived in but I still comply with the laws, plain and simple. I choose to live a happy and joyful life as much as I can instead of destroying my happiness by fighting battles that cannot be won by me. I have learned to accept things that I cannot change and to make an effort to change the things that I can when I have the power and ability to do so. That is simply a wisdom that comes from the lack of good judgement in my years of living. You live as you wish and understand that the consequences of your actions and beliefs are your responsibility to live with, no one else's. You are always free to make choices in life. I choose to live in harmony as much as I can and to adapt to where I live and I intend to live as long as I can by adapting to my environment and controlling my perceptions because that is all I really have ultimate control of anyway..there is always a choice on what road we take.

 

Thanks for sharing your comments.

All very true but I still don’t like how certain  things are handled in Thailand  and i’m almost 19years here.Sometimes it’s difficult just to swallow the shit whats going on here.I have family here so it’s not easy “if you don’t like it,leave” and it’s probably not only me in this position,specially if you come from a country where freedom of speach is a highly good

[jmacken306]

Someone must of not liked the food, service or a person because more words could be written about cleanliness. Not many places I've visited in Thailand would be opening the doors if Thailand  had health inspectors like the USA. Oh oh my ride is here I got to go eat at the Restaurant by the river,

[digger70]

They can't handle the Truth,,,,,They call it Defamation,,,,,, Can't & will Not lose Face,,,,    

[hottrader77]

7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Dear Pattaya members,

 

Apropos of nothing in particular... 

 

Why don't you all start having informal conversations regarding the general nature of life in Pattaya?

 

Just a random thought...

 

ive known critics say bad reviews just to get things for free or get money out of businesses before 

[maddox41]

OK so a Michelin star reviewer comes into your restaurant and you don't get a star and the review isn't  what you expect!!, so what do you?  threaten to sue and take legal action. 

This restaurant owner sounds Thai  probably  a front for something else

Smells fishy  

OH got to love thailand the land of the bubble  

OH to be perfect in your own mind and <deleted>..... Useless in real life 

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, hottrader77 said:

ive known critics say bad reviews just to get things for free or get money out of businesses before 

You're right and that's similarly outrageous to an owner suing a bad reviewer.

However, in my experience, most complaints are legit and good restaurants will offer to fix things if it's possible. Most Pattaya restaurants are not so good that way though. 

 

Recently I had an interesting experience at an international brand restaurant. There was a big problem with my meal there and the branch wasn't willing to fix it right there, which they could have quite easily. So I emailed the international customer service people and they kindly offered a comped future meal. But, hilariously, there was another major and different problem with the comped meal. Nothing customer service can do about a branch being that bad. Oh well! Sometimes you just can't win. 

[tropo]

3 hours ago, Easy Come Easy Go said:

So the internet should be a place where only posting positive things like images of puppies or cats is permitted? Nobody can voice their opinion on a meal they have just eaten?? If you run a business such as a restaurant, you should expect and deal with differing opinions and reactions. It is par for the course, especially if you serve up a shoddy or subpar service 

 I don't make the laws in Thailand and we have no influence over their either. Thaivisa doesn't run into problems as they are quick to delete potentially libelous posts.

[sandrabbit]

After reading the Thailand wine'n'dine facebook comments page I get the impression that post 105 is not too far off the mark as the moderator Peter Garwood mentions there are two other recent reports on the place and is wondering if the owner of the restaurant would like them deleted.

[tropo]

3 hours ago, iforget said:

More accurately, defamation may be a criminal offence. It's up to the plaintiff ("victim" of the defamation), who may decide to bring only a civil suit. A criminal accusation is definitely scarier, but if the plaintiff goes down that route, he/she is less likely to get a big payoff from a concurrent civil suit.

So, if you want to scare everyone, go for criminal defamation. If you want big bucks, go for a civil suit.  

It is absolutely standard practice to bring the civil and criminal cases at the same time. The criminal case makes it much more likely the defendant will pay up a large sum to stay out of jail. The pay off would likely be negotiated during the criminal case with an agreement the civil case would be dropped. It's normally done in a meditation room at the courthouse. 

[tropo]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

So you've just outed yours as the gaff in the OP?

Yes, it's my restaurant. Would you like all the details of the legal action too?