Partner problems, a family crisis, 5.5 years on...what happened next.

[sniper]

This story is a good example of Thailand can be called the Land of scams, but most scam victims in Thailand are thai people, scammed by fellow Thais, i am never surprised anymore when I hear of this sort of thing or some variation going on. Thai people can be very naive at times. There are lots of pyramid schemes operating and direct marketing nonsense jobs. I speak and read thai quite well so I can understand lots of the background goings on. My own wife got scammed by a friend who was running a share loan scheme scam thing, i was amazed at how brazen the ripoff was by this woman, and how naive and trusting my wife was willing to be, and she is a smart person normally. 

There are some very predatory people in Thailand who take advantage of others because it's easy to do so, if any of you ever hear of money being asked or accepted for any thing other than the purchase of everyday goods, then get very suspicious about what is really going on, there are countless variations of these scams. 

[swissbie]

OP, are you a writer? A very interesting story, from the beginning to the end. Unpredictable. Better luck with your next partner and thanks for the read.

[chudless]

I salute you mate, truly.

 

Your account was well written and worthy of its length. I cannot begin to comprehend what you and your daughter went through,.emotionally especially.

 

You are clearly a decent person and I'm glad that things basically worked out well, at least for you and your daughter, except your relationship of course. 

 

I wish you both the very best for the future, and if you are ever in the Khon Kaen area, PM me.... I'd gladly meet you for a pint.

Edited April 1, 2018 by chudless
Missed a word

[Thaidream]

I truly appreciate you taking the time to come back to the forum and giving everyone the opportunity to learn the outcome of a very interesting story.

 

I wonder, however, if your former partner also was not scammed herself and believed that the money was merely as she described it.  In my experience- Thais often use friends and family members as part of scams as they are gullible and do not understand the full impact of their actions.

 

I applaud you for maintaining a good relationship with your partner and I hope you get that house in Thailand .  You deserve it and more.  Godspeed!!

[ScotBkk]

8 hours ago, Ahab said:

Interesting story, but very long. Good luck.

I fell asleep after an Hour - Good Luck whatever it is ..................

[Gillyflower]

I agree with Stropper and others.  Very interesting story, extremely well written.  I have nothing more to add, it has been said before me.  Good luck to you Nextmove.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Gillyflower

[catman20]

8 hours ago, Rally123 said:

I couldn't be bother to read such a long opening post so I'll just wait for the movie to come out.   

me too

[473geo]

Good read thanks, always appreciate a little insight regarding Thailand and Thai people.

The immediate charges on her first release highlight the need to be cautious of being sucked into the Thai justice system, however well founded the second round of charges. Must have been a real blow.

[xylophone]

6 hours ago, nextmove said:

bwpage3

 

I have told the whole story as far as I am able to.From my side it is the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Why would I be looking for sympathy for my "wife" after what she has put myself and my daughter through? The only reason I did what I did was for my daughter. If no child had been involved I admit that after asserting the evidence I would have walked and never looked back. I always knew I would probably not forgive my wife and that is why I have chosen not to be reconciled in any shape or form other than to provide my innocent daughter with a Mother going forward.

 

I would also point out that "my two thousand Pounds" was not offered to the whole of Isaan but to the people I could only be reasonably expected to know about in connection with my "wife" at the time....as per the professional advice of my then Lawyer.The way you have presented your post you would think my former parther was responsible for scamming the entire population of Isaan.

 

Can you elaborate on what is going wrong for Thai people currently working in Israel please? I am curious since I still have missing pieces to the jigsaw.

 

Thank you.

No matter how much truth there is in your post and how you have tried to put things right and get your life together, there are always some people who will seek to chastise or denigrate you, no matter what.

 

Don't ask me why, but it just seems in the nature of some people.

 

All the very best for the future and may you get your retirement wish, and your daughter make you very proud.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, sniper said:

My own wife got scammed by a friend who was running a share loan scheme scam thing, i was amazed at how brazen the ripoff was by this woman, and how naive and trusting my wife was willing to be, and she is a smart person normally

It's greed that gets people scammed, not naivety or trust.

[Russell17au]

I read your whole story and there was one thing that it showed me and that is how easy it is for us farangs that do not know the Thai language not know what is going on because we just do not understand what they are saying to each other and if we did know then maybe we could stop some of these things from happening.

I personally found your story a very sad account of your life with you partner and I am happy that you and your daughter are achieving great things through your love for each other.

You are always going to find some members of ThaiVisa have nothing good to say about anything because they have a very sad and miserable life so they try to drag other people down to their level, but your life story is a good story for you and your daughter and I do appreciate you sharing it with us and I personally will be looking at increasing me Thai language.

Good luck to you and your daughter

[johndudorn]

8 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

We are very familiar with family, friends, etc from our village going to work in Israel. Many are there currently.

 

Previously, many went to Sweden to pick berries in the same kind of scam your wife was involved in. 

 

Not enough berries to pick to cover the cost of borrowing all the money to get there which was sharked at ridiculous rates.

 

Come back to Thailand and lose their land and/or house because they did not earn any money.

 

Always some Auntie pulling the scam.

 

40 people sleeping on the floor, getting almost nothing to eat the entire time.

 

One Thai man came back and lost his farm and committed suicide.

 

It is sad your wife was caught and arrested, however, either you do not want to tell the whole story or you are looking for sympathy for your wife?

 

Maybe you do know the whole story and know why she got sent to prison for so long and now much money and now many people were scammed.

 

These same types of foreign work scams have completely ruined innocent lives while the perpetrators run off with all their money, land, house etc.  

 

It was a kind gesture for you to pay off a few claims but I suspect is was the tip of the iceberg.

 

Isaan people were scammed out of millions of baht, not a couple thousand pounds.

 

Probably a good idea you moved on and gave your daughter an awesome chance to have a life.

 

 

 

 

My ex-daughter-in-law got taken by a similar scheme in Udorn. My wife figured it out when they had a party just before they were to leave. The scammer would not let anyone take pictures of him... He was caught but no restitution!  He scammed about 15 people... Caused massive problems as most borrowed money to pay the scammer.

[cornishcarlos]

6 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 Can happen to any of us?  Perhaps to you and your associates. This is a story of fraud and human trafficking. I do not know anyone who would do such a thing. It seems to have worked out for the OP who I believe is better off without the convicted criminal in his life.  The woman most certainly knew what she was doing as did her family. 

 

Yes, it could happen to any of us that are involved with a Thai partner.. If you don't realise by now that family (or extended family) can be very manipulative, and people will often do the strangest things where money is involved, then you need to remove those blinkers or you might be the next one writing a post like the OP... 

[cornishcarlos]

2 hours ago, ScotBkk said:

I fell asleep after an Hour - Good Luck whatever it is ..................

 

Did you struggle with the 2 syllable words :)

[Scouse123]

I found it interesting and did read it all. No doubt Aunty was playing a double game and chances are your lady knew about it... to an extent!

 

She was probably also taken for a ride along with the victims.

 

On the plus side, you are doing well, your daughter is getting the education she would not get here, possible future sporting achievements at an advanced level. Fluency in English( not sure if she remembers her Thai language ) and hopefully a bright future .

 

All the best.

[Acemaker]

11 hours ago, Rally123 said:

I couldn't be bother to read such a long opening post so I'll just wait for the movie to come out.   

Smart Ass.

[Rally123]

6 minutes ago, Acemaker said:

Smart Ass.

Why's that?

Edited April 1, 2018 by Rally123

[Acemaker]

5 hours ago, nextmove said:

Well it happned to me ,so I  have to agree it could happen to anyone of us. Its no different than a wife or a husband having an affair behind your back...that can also  "happen to anyone of us". It's really all about the luck of the draw at the end of the day.

 

Just to make a correction here this is only a story about fraud. Human trafficking NEVER took place since there were evidently no real jobs bad or good ever forthcoming.Nobody ended up in a very bad place being abused in a foreign land. However on balance yes I have to agree that my ex partner and  her family almost certainly knew what they were doing and if this was the case I am reviled by it as much as the next decent human being....particularly as myself and my daughter also became victims and suffered the consequences of such an act on a very  personal level .

I wish you well Mate, i think your attitude and level Headedness throughout this whole ordeal has been exemplary.   

[bwpage3]

9 hours ago, nextmove said:

bwpage3

 

I have told the whole story as far as I am able to.From my side it is the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Why would I be looking for sympathy for my "wife" after what she has put myself and my daughter through? The only reason I did what I did was for my daughter. If no child had been involved I admit that after asserting the evidence I would have walked and never looked back. I always knew I would probably not forgive my wife and that is why I have chosen not to be reconciled in any shape or form other than to provide my innocent daughter with a Mother going forward.

 

I would also point out that "my two thousand Pounds" was not offered to the whole of Isaan but to the people I could only be reasonably expected to know about in connection with my "wife" at the time....as per the professional advice of my then Lawyer.The way you have presented your post you would think my former parther was responsible for scamming the entire population of Isaan.

 

Can you elaborate on what is going wrong for Thai people currently working in Israel please? I am curious since I still have missing pieces to the jigsaw.

 

Thank you.

As Johndudorn pointed out is his post, it almost happened to someone in his family as well.

 

In rural Isaan, people are getting paid 200 baht per day to work all day cutting rice or sugarcane by hand, when there is work during cutting season.

 

These people are poor by the exact definition, uneducated (FIL went to grade 5 only) and these scammers know this.

 

So the "Auntie" or the head scammer finds someone in these little villages that they feel the other villages will trust and listen to.

 

They will get a bunch of these villagers together, sometimes 40 or 50 at a trip, and spin these wild elaborate stories how much money they can make picking berries in Sweden or working the farms in Israel.

 

Sweden is by far the worst scam of them all.

 

The trip abroad and this amazingly (fake) chance to make huge sums of money is going to cost the villager's at least 100,000 baht or more in travel and VISA expenses, if the scammer thinks they are gullible and can get more. But don't fear if you are poor and want to work, the scammer will amazing put up the travel money to get them abroad.

 

The villagers are asked to sign their land, house, etc as collateral for the money to get them abroad.

 

In Sweden these villagers were finding themselves sleeping 40 to a floor with minimal food to eat.

 

They were paid on a quota of how many berries they picked per day. The problem is there were way too many pickers for the amount of berries so many people weren't making any money at all per day.

 

They were assessed a charge for sleeping on the floor, what little food they received, water, you name it. All piling up a huge debt on top of the debt they took on for travel expenses.

 

The villagers would come back to Isaan 200,000+ baht in debt to these scammers. Well, when you can only make 200 baht per day when rice and sugarcane need cutting, you will never be able to repay that debt.

 

The "muscle" would come in next threatening bodily injury or even death if these villagers did not indeed sign over their land, house, etc.

 

Most of the villagers were too ashamed to admit getting caught up in this and would just give it all away and stay quiet.

 

Others sought help from local level officials who never seemed to come up with any action.

 

Israel is better these days as the ones that have been there know which farms are good and which to avoid.

 

However, the pay is only currently 20,000 baht per month. So one one is getting rich, but comparing 20k a month to 200 a day seems like a good deal for many who stay for a contract and decide to return.

 

Several we know are sending money back to Isaan to pay for a tractor, so they will have something they can use to make money when they return home. This often entails being away from their wives and small kids for a few years.

 

It is not the riches they were promised to find.

 

As in the case in Sweden this was happening to 40 - 50 people per trip. This is not 7 or 8 people.

 

One particular villager we know got scammed and came back to the village to scam his friends, family, etc. so he could make back the money he lost by spinning all kinds of wild stories how much he made.

 

So to think this is a limited scam, it is not. It is elaborate scam where 100's or 1,000's of people a year get duped by all the incredible stories of how much money they can make abroad.

 

The scammer heads into the village in a brand new expensive pick up truck, flashing lots of cash around and tells everything they can have the same things if they go to work abroad.

 

I deduce that people involved in this kind of activity know 100% how bad these villagers will get hurt and lose everything they own and they could care less.

 

Anyone involved in this scam understands the extent of the scam and what it is doing to these poor, uneducated, villagers. Hence one I know of committing suicide.

 

No one involved in innocent and I think you can understand from the length of your ex-wife's prison sentence, this was a serious crime.

 

It continues to happen to this day, only the players change.

 

I guess when you are dirt poor and uneducated, it is easy to fall for these scammers, many who were trusted friends or neighbors their entire lives.

 

Honestly you could never be expected to understand the numbers of people your wife was involved in, however, due to her going to prison, paying off a few and going back, it is obvious the amount of people paid off was not near enough.

 

1. Did your ex-wife ever go abroad?

 

2. Where were you and what were you doing the entire time she was caught up in this scam?

 

3. What did she do with the money she was making?

 

4. How did she get involved in this scam in the first place? Usually it is greed?????Or falling for the same story of how much money she can make.

 

5. If you really want to fill in the pieces, I think the first question is with a child and foreign husband, why your wife got involved in this? Was she simply naive and got duped or was she falling into the whole greed trap?

 

A form of human trafficking. The side you might not have seen or understood is the damage this caused all the people that got scammed. Physical and mental abuse before, during and after

 

Losing everything they owned.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by bwpage3
spelling

[ScotBkk]

46 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

Did you struggle with the 2 syllable words :)

I think you would do well as a comedian in a Cabaret act. Your humour split my sides - Not ...............................

[zaZa9]

Thanks for puting it out there.

I thought it was a good read.

Unlike many here , some of us are capable of concentrating for more than 3 lines ( the first comment gave me a belly laugh ! ) ... and some of those that  actually can read more than 3 lines without raising an accusative finger appear to be  quite   rare indeed...

( People smuggling , for gods sakes...)

 

Anyway , good luck with it all back in the UK.

It takes a certain fortitude to just carry on for the sake of the baby when expectations are so dashed.

And thanks to those with all the moronic responses - Ive always wanted a rough understanding of the percentage of expat IQ...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by zaZa9

[starky]

No way anybody has the time to read all that. 

[torrzent]

6 hours ago, bheard said:

You included.

Sent from my F3116 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

am guessing you will not bheard

[zaZa9]

1 hour ago, bwpage3 said:

As Johndudorn pointed out is his post, it almost happened to someone in his family as well.

 

In rural Isaan, people are getting paid 200 baht per day to work all day cutting rice or sugarcane by hand, when there is work during cutting season.

 

These people are poor by the exact definition, uneducated (FIL went to grade 5 only) and these scammers know this.

 

So the "Auntie" or the head scammer finds someone in these little villages that they feel the other villages will trust and listen to.

 

They will get a bunch of these villagers together, sometimes 40 or 50 at a trip, and spin these wild elaborate stories how much money they can make picking berries in Sweden or working the farms in Israel.

 

Sweden is by far the worst scam of them all.

 

The trip abroad and this amazingly (fake) chance to make huge sums of money is going to cost the villager's at least 100,000 baht or more in travel and VISA expenses, if the scammer thinks they are gullible and can get more. But don't fear if you are poor and want to work, the scammer will amazing put up the travel money to get them abroad.

 

The villagers are asked to sign their land, house, etc as collateral for the money to get them abroad.

 

In Sweden these villagers were finding themselves sleeping 40 to a floor with minimal food to eat.

 

They were paid on a quota of how many berries they picked per day. The problem is there were way too many pickers for the amount of berries so many people weren't making any money at all per day.

 

They were assessed a charge for sleeping on the floor, what little food they received, water, you name it. All piling up a huge debt on top of the debt they took on for travel expenses.

 

The villagers would come back to Isaan 200,000+ baht in debt to these scammers. Well, when you can only make 200 baht per day when rice and sugarcane need cutting, you will never be able to repay that debt.

 

The "muscle" would come in next threatening bodily injury or even death if these villagers did not indeed sign over their land, house, etc.

 

Most of the villagers were too ashamed to admit getting caught up in this and would just give it all away and stay quiet.

 

Others sought help from local level officials who never seemed to come up with any action.

 

Israel is better these days as the ones that have been there know which farms are good and which to avoid.

 

However, the pay is only currently 20,000 baht per month. So one one is getting rich, but comparing 20k a month to 200 a day seems like a good deal for many who stay for a contract and decide to return.

 

Several we know are sending money back to Isaan to pay for a tractor, so they will have something they can use to make money when they return home. This often entails being away from their wives and small kids for a few years.

 

It is not the riches they were promised to find.

 

As in the case in Sweden this was happening to 40 - 50 people per trip. This is not 7 or 8 people.

 

One particular villager we know got scammed and came back to the village to scam his friends, family, etc. so he could make back the money he lost by spinning all kinds of wild stories how much he made.

 

So to think this is a limited scam, it is not. It is elaborate scam where 100's or 1,000's of people a year get duped by all the incredible stories of how much money they can make abroad.

 

The scammer heads into the village in a brand new expensive pick up truck, flashing lots of cash around and tells everything they can have the same things if they go to work abroad.

 

I deduce that people involved in this kind of activity know 100% how bad these villagers will get hurt and lose everything they own and they could care less.

 

Anyone involved in this scam understands the extent of the scam and what it is doing to these poor, uneducated, villagers. Hence one I know of committing suicide.

 

No one involved in innocent and I think you can understand from the length of your ex-wife's prison sentence, this was a serious crime.

 

It continues to happen to this day, only the players change.

 

I guess when you are dirt poor and uneducated, it is easy to fall for these scammers, many who were trusted friends or neighbors their entire lives.

 

Honestly you could never be expected to understand the numbers of people your wife was involved in, however, due to her going to prison, paying off a few and going back, it is obvious the amount of people paid off was not near enough.

 

1. Did your ex-wife ever go abroad?

 

2. Where were you and what were you doing the entire time she was caught up in this scam?

 

3. What did she do with the money she was making?

 

4. How did she get involved in this scam in the first place? Usually it is greed?????Or falling for the same story of how much money she can make.

 

5. If you really want to fill in the pieces, I think the first question is with a child and foreign husband, why your wife got involved in this? Was she simply naive and got duped or was she falling into the whole greed trap?

 

A form of human trafficking. The side you might not have seen or understood is the damage this caused all the people that got scammed. Physical and mental abuse before, during and after

 

Losing everything they owned.

 

 

 

 

I was about to write , "Im confused ".

But clearly it is you ...

 

You reiterate pretty much everything in the original post , a post  with the premise that his Thai partner worked OVERSEAS in Israel as the basis of the story , BUT  you ask -

1) Did your ex-wife ever go  abroad ?

 

Any man who has the patience to be bothered to respond  to your questions clearly deserves a medal !

( My response : "Nah , she worked in the "Issan Rae Yeoaw " near Nong #@**ing Khai !" )

[Aussieroaming]

Great read, could be a doco winner

[nextmove]

bwpage3

 zaZa9 has clearly read my post in full and shown a clear understanding of the content.

But in the interests of winning my first medal since I scored the winning goal in the Somerset intermediate cup final at Glastonbury Town FC at the tender age of 16 I will attempt to answer your questions.

 

1) Yes, as already mentioned in my OP she went to work in Israel for 5 years. Not picking berries but at a restaurant serving Japanese and Asian cusine. The pay was not great but with customer tips she made a pretty good living by Thai standards. After 5 years (I understand this was the cut off point in Israel due to additional rights at this point workers living there get) they simply kick out the old and bring in next teenager or early twenty something to replace them.

 

2) My partner was with me either in Thailand or the UK .At most she went back to her village maybe 2 times a year although her immediate family would sometimes meet up with us at a beach resort somewhere. What were we doing....enjoying normal family life.

 

3) As far as I can be reasonably certain she did not benefit from any of the money. There was no fancy new phone or clothes or jewellery. Like most in Isaan the duty of the children to provide for their elderly parents is paramount. Her mother was the only one from her family  to benefit out of this. The "Aunty" and her husband who have never been seen in the village since were the main benefactors. No money was ever traced to my partners bank accounts by the police ,it was only found in her mothers account. The evidence against my partner was solely word of mouth and the fact that she had not replied to police letters worked significantly against her. Her father, sister and brothers were also not implicated.How did her mother spend the money ...she  probably lost most of it illegally gambling and buying lottery tickets...but is only a guess since in the years after the event there was no new house with a limo on the drive.

 

4) Another question that I have already answered in my OP to the best of my knowledge.

 

5) Again this has been addressed in my OP. I can only hazzard a guess but I feel that both greed and also being duped played a part.

Well I sympathise with what has happened regarding human trafficking to poor people anywhere in the world in my partners case I really feel you have gone off on a tangent so to speak. Let me reitterate, my ex partner has NEVER been involved in human trafficking, FRAUD yes but not trafficking.

 

I only wanted to hear about Israel to see if perhaps there might be any flaws in her story.You see until this day I still have questions.After being through something like this for many years your mind still strays and ponders over things from time to time. You have given me very little about Israel but continued to go on a tangent about the berry fields of Sweden and the like. In fact I may not be sure over everything but over the Israel situation I am pretty certain as my ex always described so vivedly her work at the restaurant and her disgust at having to share a Tel aviv apartment block with around 20 other Thai's many of whom were not particuarly house or shared fridge proud shall we say.

 

If you care to read my OP a little more clearly and concisely again you will also see that as a result of Israel she got many people sponsorship to work at her restaurant and other restaurants in the area. Nobody ever came back early because the money wasn't good and nobody pressed any any charges. Her sister joined her at the same restaurant some 3 years later before also being kicked out via the Israeli summary justice system for foreign workers about 5 years ago.

 

What did my ex partner do with all her savings from that 5 year stint?...she turned her Father and Mothers wooden house into a part block structure and bought the family a new pickup even though she did not drive herself. When the next hard times hit she sold the pickup at gave the proceeds to her mother and father.When I met her she was working for 300thb per day for a woman in Pratunam market. The extra 100thb or so over a normal workers wage was to recognise my partners auditing skills ,something she had also aquired by taking control of food stocks and orders at the Tel Aviv restaurant.Her knowledge of Japenese cooking was excellent and she even spoke a little Israeli much to the delight of the Israeli tourists we met from time to time.

 

Her sister was a little more shrewd keeping most of her savings when she returned. She owns a small car ,rents a nice apartment and now runs a couple of small boutique shops in Lat phrao,Bangkok. My ex partner now helps her with that for what is basically her board,lodge and food.

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by nextmove

[IsaanFam]

Weak loyalty of you. I would have stayed every single minute with my partner, regardless if prison or cancer. But some people are different, leaving other people at weakest moments. 

[nextmove]

5 minutes ago, IsaanFam said:

Weak loyalty of you. I would have stayed every single minute with my partner, regardless if prison or cancer. But some people are different, leaving other people at weakest moments. 

Can I ask you have you read anything of my OP? 

[zaZa9]

26 minutes ago, IsaanFam said:

Weak loyalty of you. I would have stayed every single minute with my partner, regardless if prison or cancer. But some people are different, leaving other people at weakest moments. 

Great reply !

In the vein of Thaivisa  comprehension skill levels  now  ... ( I will leave out the ego stroking )

 

Whaaa ?? So you are a Thai lesbian with cancer   who " would have " committed  a crime   just to go to the same Womens  gaol  , so as  to spend every  "single minute "  of every waking day with your 'partner' and your baby ?? 

 

 

 

[MadMuhammad]

What an amazing story, thanks for sharing. I’m happy that ou aren’t dragged into the mess any further than being hit up for ‘compensation’.

 

Great work with your daughter and all the best for both of you moving forward.