Why so many Thai restaurants abroad ...

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, connda said:

Why so many Thai restaurants abroad ...

Because they can charge and receive $10 to $15 for a dish that will only get them the equivalent of $1 in Thailand.

 

Plus they can hire virtual slave labor to do the cooking and grunt work.  Entice Thais to go to the US on a tourist visa and work 'under-the-table' (and illegally) for chicken scratch.  Owners make a killing.

Yes and no.

Basic overhead is high in the west. It's not only labor costs. That's a big reason for the trend towards food trucks. 

[DrDave]

15 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Yes.  very common.  I have worked in 15 states and few had good ones.  Surprisingly Rhode Island had two that were stunning real.  And in the San Diego area there were a few and the prices were reasonable.  Here in Melbourne Florida area the prices are crazy and the food fair.  Nothing to rave about.  And of course the restaurants are rarely busy as other Thais go and open up too many restaurants for the area.  Almost seems like the 7-11 mentality in Thailand.  More than you can shake a stick at.

 

  My theory on the small restaurants that do not seem by even a cursory financial analysis to not make any money, is they are used as havens or immigration portals.  The owners sponsor some people from the home country perhaps saying they are Thai master chefs, or experts in Thai culture or whatever and that gets them into the USA.  The owners of the restaurant charge some fairly expensive fee to the Thais. Just a theory, that seems to fit some of the places I have seen over the years.

From what I've been able to determine, very few Thai restaurants in the US make much money. We personally know the owners of several restaurants in Florida (including a couple in Melbourne) and California and the only ones that are making any real money are the ones that own several locations. We've seen time and time again, Thais who blow their life savings to buy a restaurant without doing proper due diligence only to be forced to sell it on to another Thai when they finally come to terms that they're losing money. For the ones we know, it's more about realizing a dream and big face, as opposed to an immigration mechanism. Much like the Vietnamese-owned nail salons, Thai restaurants over-saturate the market in some areas to the point where none of them can be profitable.

 

Walk into the kitchen of any Thai restaurant in the US, and there's a better than 50/50 chance that your food is being prepared by Mexican cooks. Usually, the owner retains the recipes and prepares the sauces for the day, and the cooks put the meals together as they're ordered. In some states (like FL), most Thai restaurants serve very little Thai food. Although owned by Thais, most are combination Sushi/Japanese/Thai restaurants, with a lot of Chinese food on the menu, disguised as Thai food.  What Thai food is on the menu is heavily westernized to the point of being almost unrecognizable to people who know Thai food. The only exception we've found to this is a well-known Thai restaurant in Las Vegas which serves truly authentic northern Thai food.

 

We spend a lot of time in RI, but have only been to a couple of Thai restaurants there with nothing being memorable. Would be interested in your suggestions!

 

[Jingthing]

I think it's kind of racist to assume that non-Thais can't cook Thai food, but it does help to have people that know what the food is supposed to taste like involved in the operation. They would usually not be Mexicans. 

[WinterGael]

Thai are very underrepresented in Canada,  but lots of Thai restraunts.  Stats Canada puts it this way...

 

Over 80% are women who came to Canada after marrying a Canadian man.  Most of them opened a restraunt, and from experience, some of them are very good and quite authentic.  But the moral of the story is...

 

What else do they do when their education cannot get them a job in Canada,  nor can their level of English language. So a restraunt makes sense, and some do very well at it.

[smokie36]

If a place sells crying tiger beef and no krapow moo I avoid.

 

Oh and a fiver for steamed rice?

 

Jog on.

[oldhippy]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

That sounds like they are Chinese and Japanese restaurants

No, they are "Asian" restaurants.

No "appellation d'origine".

They just serve whatever.

Cheap business model for cheap people without taste.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by oldhippy
.

[CLW]

No, they are "Asian" restaurants.
No "appellation d'origine".
They just serve whatever.
Cheap business model for cheap people without taste.
 
 

For someone who has never been to Thailand or some background knowledge about Thai cuisine the only thing people know is coconut soup (Tom Kha Gai).
Other served dishes are more asian universal food such as fried spring rolls or fried rice.

[Thongkorn]

We have a Thai restaurant near us which is genuine Thai. The chef is a Thai man. you can ask for genuine Thai food or the cosmetic Thai food, he does more than the green.red yellow curry. We have been there many times.

[Jingthing]

For someone who has never been to Thailand or some background knowledge about Thai cuisine the only thing people know is coconut soup (Tom Kha Gai).
Other served dishes are more asian universal food such as fried spring rolls or fried rice.

Americans also mostly know Sate, Tom yum, pad Thai, green curry, gai yang, and Thai iced tea. There seems to be a Thai American style of gai yang that can actually be really good.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bwpage3]

19 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Yes.  very common.  I have worked in 15 states and few had good ones.  Surprisingly Rhode Island had two that were stunning real.  And in the San Diego area there were a few and the prices were reasonable.  Here in Melbourne Florida area the prices are crazy and the food fair.  Nothing to rave about.  And of course the restaurants are rarely busy as other Thais go and open up too many restaurants for the area.  Almost seems like the 7-11 mentality in Thailand.  More than you can shake a stick at.

 

  My theory on the small restaurants that do not seem by even a cursory financial analysis to not make any money, is they are used as havens or immigration portals.  The owners sponsor some people from the home country perhaps saying they are Thai master chefs, or experts in Thai culture or whatever and that gets them into the USA.  The owners of the restaurant charge some fairly expensive fee to the Thais. Just a theory, that seems to fit some of the places I have seen over the years.

I only frequent one Thai restaurant (once in a great while) in Melbourne as the wife and her friends usually get together at our house and cook their own Thai Food (spicy hot, hot, hot). Lots of Thai restaurants have gone out of business here. Do not understand customer service, try to cook Thai food for Americans which is the worst ever and generally have no idea how to run a business or provide customer service. 

[bwpage3]

3 hours ago, DrDave said:

From what I've been able to determine, very few Thai restaurants in the US make much money. We personally know the owners of several restaurants in Florida (including a couple in Melbourne) and California and the only ones that are making any real money are the ones that own several locations. We've seen time and time again, Thais who blow their life savings to buy a restaurant without doing proper due diligence only to be forced to sell it on to another Thai when they finally come to terms that they're losing money. For the ones we know, it's more about realizing a dream and big face, as opposed to an immigration mechanism. Much like the Vietnamese-owned nail salons, Thai restaurants over-saturate the market in some areas to the point where none of them can be profitable.

 

Walk into the kitchen of any Thai restaurant in the US, and there's a better than 50/50 chance that your food is being prepared by Mexican cooks. Usually, the owner retains the recipes and prepares the sauces for the day, and the cooks put the meals together as they're ordered. In some states (like FL), most Thai restaurants serve very little Thai food. Although owned by Thais, most are combination Sushi/Japanese/Thai restaurants, with a lot of Chinese food on the menu, disguised as Thai food.  What Thai food is on the menu is heavily westernized to the point of being almost unrecognizable to people who know Thai food. The only exception we've found to this is a well-known Thai restaurant in Las Vegas which serves truly authentic northern Thai food.

 

We spend a lot of time in RI, but have only been to a couple of Thai restaurants there with nothing being memorable. Would be interested in your suggestions!

 

Melbourne has the Thai Kitchen on Wickham that serves excellent Isaan food. Small mom and pop joint. The only other one we go to is Siam Thai on Nasa Blvd. Have to have the wife ask for the REAL thai food, although I do like their sushi.

 

Thai food is on the menu is heavily westernized to the point of being almost unrecognizable to people who know Thai food.

 

Boy, that is the truth! When I first moved back from Thailand went to Thai Thai II, I didn't recognize any Thai food. The waitress stated they only make Thai food for American style? What ever that is.

 

Now my wife has a few of her friends over a few times each week and they do the big, authentic Thai food cooking.

 

She much prefers going to Jason's Market and getting the ingredients and doing her own thing.

[wotsdermatter]

21 hours ago, oldhippy said:

the government of Thailand has intentionally bolstered the presence of Thai cuisine outside of Thailand

One unstated fact is that the Thai government started this project because of the popularity of Indonesian restaurants throughout the world and the government was approached by Thai business people and asked them to find a way to overcome/reverse this discrepancy.

[geisha]

Speaking from experience, and knowledge of the ingredients used in Thailand, I would say that a lot of the Asian restaurants, including Thai, serve better quality food  in Europe than  what you get in S E Asia. Taking into account the quality and provenance of the meats / poultry/ seafood, the stricter hygiene, and the fact that there are many qualified  chefs / cooks. Yes, it’s more expensive, obviously you can’t compare. I find the food much healthier using much less salt, msg and sugar , and one can be certain that herbicides / hormones are controlled. 

 All  around the world today you have demand for various cuisines. It’s great to have a choice of tastes and flavours. 

[AYJAYDEE]

1 minute ago, geisha said:

Speaking from experience, and knowledge of the ingredients used in Thailand, I would say that a lot of the Asian restaurants, including Thai, serve better quality food  in Europe than  what you get in S E Asia. Taking into account the quality and provenance of the meats / poultry/ seafood, the stricter hygiene, and the fact that there are many qualified  chefs / cooks. Yes, it’s more expensive, obviously you can’t compare. I find the food much healthier using much less salt, msg and sugar , and one can be certain that herbicides / hormones are controlled. 

 All  around the world today you have demand for various cuisines. It’s great to have a choice of tastes and flavours. 

quality doesnt necessarily equate to taste

 

[2112]

4 hours ago, DrDave said:

The only exception we've found to this is a well-known Thai restaurant in Las Vegas which serves truly authentic northern Thai food.

Would that restaurant be called O-cha? Very good authentic Thai food at that place, particularly their lahb gai.

[Katia]

21 hours ago, andy said:

Add that to important ingredients that are very limited in availability in the US (krapow leaf, etc), and the result is usually disappointing.

Yes, I sadly never encountered a Thai chili until I actually came to Thailand.\

 

 

12 hours ago, nss70 said:

I think the main problem is most places westernise their food to fit western tastes (they think) and/or concentrate on fancy presentation to justify stupid prices. Therefore, anyone who likes actual Thai food is most likely going to find it too sweet, too mild, too bland etc.

A Thai-American friend points out to me some of the differences (also between American "Chinese" food and proper)... relates a story of a time he went to a Thai restaurant with some friends, had the standard fare.  The next day he returned, but his friends weren't with him... he says what he got was much more authentic because they didn't see him as requiring Americanized Thai food.

 

There's a Thai restaurant in the U.S. where my mother and I are regulars.  The staff are all from Thailand (Bangkok and Chiang Mai, mostly).  One guy who works there told me before I left, "You are going to go to Thailand and wonder 'what has this guy been cooking for me all along??'"  When I was recently back to visit he laughed and shook his head and said "now you know the food and I can't lie to you anymore!"  I still like their food, though.  He snorted at my vegetable curry once and said, "That's not real Thai food."  (I liked it anyway.)  Next time I asked him to make me something new to try.

 

My favorite Thai places have always been actually Thai-run, though.  And I don't find they're really that much more expensive than any other restaurant.  (I once had a conversation with my Thai teacher about the price of Western food in Thailand; her question was how the price of Thai food compared in the West... I think she expected me to tell her the price ratio was similar {I can't remember if she expected Thai food was a lot cheaper or more expensive than Western.  If I recall, she had thought I'd say Western food was really cheap the way Thai food is in Thailand.  I had to tell her it's all a lot more expensive.})

 

 

13 hours ago, TSF said:

 Every Thai believes that foreigners (yes they call us foreigners even in our own countries) can't eat spicy food, so the vast majority of Thai restaurants serve bland food tamed down for the foreigners. 

Unfortunately true.  Even at my restaurant where they should know better, "spicy" is not nearly too much for me and I don't consider myself to be a super-spicy eater (to be fair, there's another restaurant I like where they know how to do it and will if you ask for it).  But again, I do find in part it's that lack of actual chilis.

 

Alas.  I had hoped that in Thailand, I would finally find people who can understand what "really spicy" means for my Bloody Mary... nope.  Even after a friend explained to them, in Thai, that it's really okay to make it "phet maak" for me.

 

 

7 hours ago, Tony125 said:

When I go to Thai restaurants in Massachusetts I usually speak some Thai to the owner or staff 

I was surprised the time I was in Scotland and went to a Thai restaurant... staff didn't bat an eyelash when the American tourist started ordering in Thai, and I figured they'd at least have to do a double-take.  (Sometimes in a restaurant in the U.S. I'll get the standard "sorry what did you say" because they had the "I expect her to speak English so I don't recognize she's speaking Thai and hence I don't understand her" moment just like I sometimes get here in Thailand.  {It can't just be that my Thai is bad, because half the time once they realize, it's "OH!" and then we get on just fine.  The best was the time I was at the store and as I was getting out my wallet, the guy ringing me up went to grab a bag.  "Mai ao thuung" I said.  He tells me the price.  I shake my head.  "Mai ao thuung."  He tells me the price again.  I smile and say it again.  He starts laughing because he finally realizes I'm speaking Thai, and then he understood me perfectly.})

[mbamber]

9 hours ago, moe666 said:

I am from Albuquerque NM most of the Thai Places here are run by Laos. My friends place the food is excellent and getting the ingredients no problem until the yellow shirts blocked the airports. Someone mentioned getting leaves all fresh stuff is sent by air.

 

I have had very good Thai food in Cardiff and in Edinburogh, The worst in Brussels 

 

But where ever you go no Philippino food

We had Philippino crew they loved fish heads but their cooks did some nice food as well.

[JemJem]

On 02.04.2018 at 12:14 AM, swissie said:

At this point, it might be a good idea to talk about the "Thai-Cuisine" in general.

Like it or not, the Thai-Cuisine consists of 5 to 6 standart menues. Can and will be expanded by certain "add-on's", but still based on those same basic 5 to 6 standatd dishes.

In comparison: In my home-country, an apprentice-cook will have to be able to cook-up some 50 (fifty) completely different dishes to be certified as a cook (with diploma) after a 3 year apprenticeship.

I don't know how Thailand is going to conquer the world, but it will definitely not be by way of the "Thai-Cuisine".
Bon appetit & cheers.

 

I didn't know Swiss cuisine had quite a variety. Well, sorry, I don't know much about it. Is there a place in Bangkok that you would recommend for Swiss food ? I've wanted to ask you instead of googling :) Thanks.

 

Thai cuisine being popular overseas isn't a new thing of course. I  lived in London, England for a few years in the mid-late 1980's. There were already quite a few Thai restaurants there. And, I lived in Sydney, Australia for a while in the mid-late 1990's. For example, in the Newtown area, the most numerous restaurants back then were Thai and Turkish.

[cauldlad]

Went to a Thai restaurant in York a few years ago with my Thai wife.

 

The owner was Thai and when she came over to our table to speak to my wife it turns out she was from Udon Thani the same place as my wife.

 

When we left I asked my wife what she thought about the food and she said only average. I suspect because they cannot get all the Thai ingredients needed for a true authentic meal. Presumably this would apply to all Thai restaurants abroad unless they are willing to import themselves from Thailand.

 

As already mentioned it was not cheap and my wife could not believe the price for only the two of us.

[DrDave]

23 hours ago, 2112 said:

Would that restaurant be called O-cha? Very good authentic Thai food at that place, particularly their lahb gai.

Don't know that one. The one I was thinking of is Lotus of Siam. From recent reviews I've read, it may have gone downhill a little when they opened a new location closer to the strip. Haven't been there in a few years, so not really sure. My wife is from northern Thailand, and they have an extensive selection of north-style food that we've never seen outside of northern Thailand. The owner/chef has won several prestigious awards.

One problem with reviews is that they're often written by people who don't really know Thai food, or they claim to know "authentic" Thai because they've eaten at the Holiday Inn in Bangkok.

[DrDave]

On 4/2/2018 at 7:26 AM, Jingthing said:

I think it's kind of racist to assume that non-Thais can't cook Thai food, but it does help to have people that know what the food is supposed to taste like involved in the operation. They would usually not be Mexicans. 

I was responding to the notion presented that many Thai restaurants exist as a mechanism to facilitate immigration for family members. My point was that many Thai restaurants (just like many other types of restaurants) employ Mexican cooks rather than Thai family. At least nearly all of the ones for which we personally know the owners, and we know quite a few. In each case, the "cooks" are limited to using the deep fryer as well as adding meat to already prepared curries and sauces for final simmering or stir frying. Recipes and ingredients are typically held very close to the vest.

[55Jay]

Thais restaurants aren't as crazy numerous as 7-11 are here, but there are a lot where I'm from.  But there are lots of Mexican places, "Chinese", and Vietnamese Pho too. 

 

We were in California last month and stopped near the house to try a small Mexican place we hadn't been to before.  Thai restaurant next door, open, empty, no customers coming or going.   Another one directly across the street, line of sight, same thing.  There are 1 or 2 more within a few miles radius.  I've noticed them over the years, somehow they are making a go of it.

 

[Ulysses G.]

I have a Thai friend who visits the US about once a year. She says there are good Thai restaurants in America, but they are far and few between. She loves one in particular in San Francisco, but I am not going to pay a fortune to eat Thai food her, so I've never asked the name. I like some Thai food OK, but have never been crazy about it.

[Hardie]

Thai Town in LA can hold its own with anywhere, easily dozens of restaurants in that one small neighborhood, and many have some Mexican cooks, with at least one Thai at the helm. Prices are reasonable. I can remember when the first Thai restaurant opened in the East Bay, Oakland/Berkeley, BYOB, in 1984, years before I ever came here, may have even played a role...

[LomSak27]

On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 12:30 PM, gk10002000 said:

My theory on the small restaurants that do not seem by even a cursory financial analysis to not make any money, is they are used as havens or immigration portals.  The owners sponsor some people from the home country perhaps saying they are Thai master chefs, or experts in Thai culture or whatever and that gets them into the USA.  The owners of the restaurant charge some fairly expensive fee to the Thais. Just a theory, that seems to fit some of the places I have seen over the years.

Sounds like a theory baked up on the East Coast gk.

 

For the OP, the largest Overseas population of Thais in the world, is in the LA area of California. Not surprisingly it was LA and the yuppies of LA that popularized "pot thai" and Thai cuisine in general to the US and the world in the 1980's. Let me say that again 1980's !!   Right this wasn’t popularized in London, or Glasgow or Melbourne or Hamburg. It was Los Angeles and the US,  and that was 30 years ago. I worked in Thailand in the 80's and when I returned thai food was, yep,  hepact cool ... this on the west coast, but NOT California. In fact I had to lead our workplace lunch  group who wanted thai food as I could order a few dishes, other than pat thai,  that they might like and yes speak thai.  ... For our angry barking  expats, claiming these were chinese inpostering  thai's. The only "fake Thai" cafe's, and there were a couple, were chinese but invariably boat people from  Vietnam. Vietnamese boat people being 95 per cent ethnic Vietnamese Chinese.

Yes yes, they toned down spiceness, added sugar etc etc. Hey they were  selling to a farang market, for our purist posters out there. By the way Kudo's to "Racha Noodles" on Mercer who made sticky rice for most of the 90's even though people had no clue then what it was ... and they never sold  much ... they do now. My how times change.

[gk10002000]

Thai restaurant in Providence, RI. 

 

1: Pakarang.  South Main Street, Fox Point.  Always enjoyed it.

2:  Some place near the airport in Warwick.  Probably Lemongrass but I can't be sure.   It's been quite a few years since I went there.  They always served the rice in decorative bowl, and we always left there with our noses running as if we were coke fiends.  

[bwpage3]

On 4/5/2018 at 8:46 AM, LomSak27 said:

Sounds like a theory baked up on the East Coast gk.

 

For the OP, the largest Overseas population of Thais in the world, is in the LA area of California. Not surprisingly it was LA and the yuppies of LA that popularized "pot thai" and Thai cuisine in general to the US and the world in the 1980's. Let me say that again 1980's !!   Right this wasn’t popularized in London, or Glasgow or Melbourne or Hamburg. It was Los Angeles and the US,  and that was 30 years ago. I worked in Thailand in the 80's and when I returned thai food was, yep,  hepact cool ... this on the west coast, but NOT California. In fact I had to lead our workplace lunch  group who wanted thai food as I could order a few dishes, other than pat thai,  that they might like and yes speak thai.  ... For our angry barking  expats, claiming these were chinese inpostering  thai's. The only "fake Thai" cafe's, and there were a couple, were chinese but invariably boat people from  Vietnam. Vietnamese boat people being 95 per cent ethnic Vietnamese Chinese.

Yes yes, they toned down spiceness, added sugar etc etc. Hey they were  selling to a farang market, for our purist posters out there. By the way Kudo's to "Racha Noodles" on Mercer who made sticky rice for most of the 90's even though people had no clue then what it was ... and they never sold  much ... they do now. My how times change.

A couple of years back there was a Thai lady in Florida that owned a few large size Thai restaurants. She was busted by immigration for using all illegal Thai labor. Restaurant confiscated, she ended up in Jail and all the rest were deported. We know many on visa overstay working in restaurants in Melbourne Florida.