Large mistake made advice and help required

[mstevens]

3 hours ago, wump said:

Nothing good ever comes from returning excess money to Thais. Happened to me tens of times in 7-11 and now I just don't say anything anymore. They lose their face when admitting to a mistake so I am sure they rather not receive the excess back than losing their face. Also, if the teller has paid the difference from their own money and you come back, the boss might fire them if the story comes out.

Just do nothing and enjoy the money. You won't get locked up. It's not your fault and nobody is forced to count the money they receive from an exchange place. THEY have to do the math, not you. What if the ATM gave you 20,000 too much? You always count your money with ATMs?

Edit: If there was calls involved, he really should answer them and return the money. 

 

Would you not feel a sense of satisfaction from doing the right thing i.e. returning money to someone that is not yours and knowing that your honesty will prevent this person having to make up the shortfall themselves?  Surely that sense of doing the right thing would be more of a feel-good factor than keeping the excess change handed to you in a 7 Eleven?

[Airalee]

6 minutes ago, mstevens said:

 

Would you not feel a sense of satisfaction from doing the right thing i.e. returning money to someone that is not yours and knowing that your honesty will prevent this person having to make up the shortfall themselves?  Surely that sense of doing the right thing would be more of a feel-good factor than keeping the excess change handed to you in a 7 Eleven?

Unfortunately, morally bankrupt people don’t think like that.  Sad but true.

[MyFriend You]

• There is a scam going around South American resort areas for the same thing, slight variations of it as well.
• Exchange booth clerks give more money to foreigners than they were supposed to and call him/her telling they the same thing your relative told you.........give mney back, go to jail, can;t leave country etc  etc etc..........get the money back and keep it for themselves.
• Nuther one is a casino letting you win, then hotel won't change local money you won for $$, tell you the banks will be open in AM you can change it there, bank is in on it, drag feet, won't change your local money, so you decide to change it in airport, no money changer will take it, you decide to take it out with you and are quickly reminded that you can't take more then (small amount) out of country..........customs confiscate your 'winnings'  and shares it with everyone from dealer on down to aprt folks.     
• True story, happened to me in Zimbabwe, won over $8,000 at the blackjack table,  the scenario I say above actually happened to me - but when I got to the Window to show my pspt, 'the nice lady'  there asked me if I had any local money, I said yes I did, and was taking it to South Africa to exchange it since no one would in Victoria Falls.  Then I showed her my Diplomatic Passport, .......can't touch my bags, Thank You Ma'am.  I walked to the plane with a bunch of sad folks looking out the windows..........and here money getting on a plane to South Africa.   Fun Times they were.

[jacko45k]

On 4/4/2018 at 11:25 PM, Deserted said:

Well he does genuinely believe they did try to cheat him on one or two of the currencies but it seems like he is trying to get away with the mistake made.

Which is a form of cheating on his part.

You also suggest he is stubborn and will not listen, is ignoring calls and wants to keep the money.

If you have recommended to him that he returns it and he chooses not to, I believe you have done all you can, and he must take his chances.

 

[sead]

No he wont get in trouble. The person making the mistake is going to have trouble paying from her own pocket. A value close to her 6 weeks working. I would have gone back but that is me. 

[Monkeyrobot]

Since when does a money exchange ask for your phone number? And why did he not count the money when receiving it. It’s black and white on the receipt, 300 US dollar = 9000 Baht or there about. When I change money I count it and leave the receipt with the money changer or throw it away. If I did leave my number and someone a few days later called or text demanding 20,000B I’d take it as some type of scam. Something not right here, money changers don’t make mistakes like that they count the cash at least 3 times before they hand it over to you. 

[wump]

6 hours ago, mstevens said:

 

Would you not feel a sense of satisfaction from doing the right thing i.e. returning money to someone that is not yours and knowing that your honesty will prevent this person having to make up the shortfall themselves?  Surely that sense of doing the right thing would be more of a feel-good factor than keeping the excess change handed to you in a 7 Eleven?

Sadly, of course I would feel this is the right thing to do. I don't even need a 'thank you'. But I got so many bad looks (or non-understanding looks) at 7-11 that I just let it be. If they don't want me to be honest, so be it.

[wump]

3 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

• There is a scam going around South American resort areas for the same thing, slight variations of it as well.
• Exchange booth clerks give more money to foreigners than they were supposed to and call him/her telling they the same thing your relative told you.........give mney back, go to jail, can;t leave country etc  etc etc..........get the money back and keep it for themselves.
• Nuther one is a casino letting you win, then hotel won't change local money you won for $$, tell you the banks will be open in AM you can change it there, bank is in on it, drag feet, won't change your local money, so you decide to change it in airport, no money changer will take it, you decide to take it out with you and are quickly reminded that you can't take more then (small amount) out of country..........customs confiscate your 'winnings'  and shares it with everyone from dealer on down to aprt folks.     
• True story, happened to me in Zimbabwe, won over $8,000 at the blackjack table,  the scenario I say above actually happened to me - but when I got to the Window to show my pspt, 'the nice lady'  there asked me if I had any local money, I said yes I did, and was taking it to South Africa to exchange it since no one would in Victoria Falls.  Then I showed her my Diplomatic Passport, .......can't touch my bags, Thank You Ma'am.  I walked to the plane with a bunch of sad folks looking out the windows..........and here money getting on a plane to South Africa.   Fun Times they were.

If you play for $8000 in Zimbabwe you got much bigger problems than op.

[Scouse123]

On 4/4/2018 at 9:28 PM, Deserted said:

Sorry for asking all this. The main question is what will happen if he doesn't give it back. 

And here lies the question which is what you really want the answer to!

 

The top and bottom of this story are he has no intention of giving it back, he is justifying his reasons for hanging on to it and being dishonest as anybody can do, in that position, when they are being dishonest by saying that the exchange was attempting to give him the wrong rate, and saying that the exchange bureau was trying to cheat him on the rate.

 

I don't believe this as rates are clearly displayed and government licensed and usually you are given a receipt printed out by the computer.

 

His only concern and nagging doubts are ' Do the Thais have the wherewithal to catch up with him when he exits the country? "  or will he get away with it?

 

The chances are the employee who made the error will have to repay those funds from their salary and/or be dismissed from their job!

 

I hope he feels better knowing this!

 

[wazzupnow]

On 4/4/2018 at 9:28 PM, Deserted said:

Sorry for asking all this. The main question is what will happen if he doesn't give it back. 

i think nothing will happen, we all know thais can not count with out calculator

worse scenario they will ask him to pay when he leaves

just make sure he has plenty of time to check in at airport when he leaves

take 2 hours more for it  and what problem than atm s everywhere

[jerry921]

23 hours ago, NoBrainer said:

I did not see wether he was given the amount of currency stated on the receipt, and the receipt is calculated wrong, or wether the receipt is calculated correctly, but they handed him more than the amount he was supposed to get via the receipt.

 

Makes a difference.

Agree. If they did the figuring wrong and gave him the amount the receipt said, and he signed it, then I don't quite see that it's "theft" - someone noted that the rates on the board vary from the rates on the receipt, surely it's the changer's responsibility to use the right rate, and only your responsibility to make sure the rate is acceptable to you.

Think if they use a rate that's too much in their favor and you sign and later return and demand more money what are they going to do?  I think they're not going to give it to you, so I don't think a smallish error in the rate in your favor is necessarily your problem.

 

Also if the receipt matches the amount he got, then it very well may be a scam to try to defraud the money changer company and if he gives them back the money the company won't get it but the criminal employee will.

 

If on the other hand, the employee counted out more money than the receipt says, then the only way they know which transaction it happened on is by having reviewed their CCTV, so in that case I think a call to arrange repayment is appropriate. But they should have to come to him to collect, he shouldn't be obliged to travel to another city to repay.

 

 

[watcharacters]

23 hours ago, namatjira said:

Have to feel really sorry for the Thai person who made the mistake,

as said earlier, he will now be faced with making up the short fall which amounts to about 2 to 3 months of wages ... that’s quite a penalty but the way it works...make sure he is aware of that...for a Thai that is huge money ......... a mistake is a mistake but to knowingly profit out of that mistake is not the right thing to do...

guess if he gets picked up at immigration it will be rough justice but no less than what he is handing out to the employee...

 

 

For me returning an overpayment is just a matter of doing the "right thing".

 

But anyone knowing the person who has made the mistake must make up the difference out of his or her own pocket is morrally bankrupt.

 

A countrywide lesson in how to give change is a good idea I believe.     I've rarely had a Thai cashier count the money out in my hand.   They should count it to themselves and count again as they give the change to the customer.

 

 

[Just Weird]

2 hours ago, jerry921 said:

Agree. If they did the figuring wrong and gave him the amount the receipt said, and he signed it, then I don't quite see that it's "theft" - someone noted that the rates on the board vary from the rates on the receipt, surely it's the changer's responsibility to use the right rate, and only your responsibility to make sure the rate is acceptable to you.

Think if they use a rate that's too much in their favor and you sign and later return and demand more money what are they going to do?  I think they're not going to give it to you, so I don't think a smallish error in the rate in your favor is necessarily your problem.

 

If on the other hand, the employee counted out more money than the receipt says, then the only way they know which transaction it happened on is by having reviewed their CCTV, so in that case I think a call to arrange repayment is appropriate. But they should have to come to him to collect, he shouldn't be obliged to travel to another city to repay.

 

 

"Agree. If they did the figuring wrong and gave him the amount the receipt said, and he signed it, then I don't quite see that it's "theft"."

So what do you see it as, good luck, a gift from the exchange cashier?  It became theft the moment he answered the call and received subsequent calls from the exchange and the problem was explained to him. His decision, effectively, to tell them to shove it where the sun doesn't shine, makes it theft or obtaining a pecuniary advantage. 

 

"so I don't think a smallish error in the rate in your favor is necessarily your problem".

B20,000, "a smallish error"?

 

"But they should have to come to him to collect, he shouldn't be obliged to travel to another city to repay".

He only has to travel to an ATM or the nearest branch of the exchange's bank to transfer his ill-gotten gains back to where it belongs!

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Just Weird

[Just Weird]

2 hours ago, watcharacters said:

I've rarely had a Thai cashier count the money out in my hand.   They should count it to themselves and count again as they give the change to the customer.

Bit difficult to do that through the security window and the sunken tray that most banks/exchanges use to stop hands being able to get through!

[Lacessit]

10 hours ago, Monkeyrobot said:

Since when does a money exchange ask for your phone number? And why did he not count the money when receiving it. It’s black and white on the receipt, 300 US dollar = 9000 Baht or there about. When I change money I count it and leave the receipt with the money changer or throw it away. If I did leave my number and someone a few days later called or text demanding 20,000B I’d take it as some type of scam. Something not right here, money changers don’t make mistakes like that they count the cash at least 3 times before they hand it over to you. 

I am always asked for my phone number when I exchange money, nine years now. It's a safeguard against counterfeiting by a customer. The phone number is linked to my passport via the SIM, so I can be traced. Makes sense to me.

The money exchanger I use has never called me. They count the money I give them by hand, then combine machine counting with manual counting for the baht they give me. Can't say I've seen them counting 3 times or more.

[Lacessit]

20 hours ago, wump said:

Nothing good ever comes from returning excess money to Thais. Happened to me tens of times in 7-11 and now I just don't say anything anymore. They lose their face when admitting to a mistake so I am sure they rather not receive the excess back than losing their face. Also, if the teller has paid the difference from their own money and you come back, the boss might fire them if the story comes out.

Just do nothing and enjoy the money. You won't get locked up. It's not your fault and nobody is forced to count the money they receive from an exchange place. THEY have to do the math, not you. What if the ATM gave you 20,000 too much? You always count your money with ATMs?

Edit: If there was calls involved, he really should answer them and return the money. 

Have to admire your exercise in rationalisation of dishonesty. Have you ever been a used car salesman?

[jerry921]

16 hours ago, Just Weird said:

B20,000, "a smallish error"?

You're right, I went back and re-read the OP and learned the amount was larger than I thought. It's a big error.

 

Still, aren't all transactions final once signed and executed? Or is there a 30 day right of refund on these transactions in Thailand that I'm unaware of? I think the rule is "All sales final". That cuts both ways, and covers mistakes as well as breaking news that causes the rate to skyrocket or plummet.

 

If, on the other hand, the changer simply counted out the wrong number of bills, different than what the receipt said, then since the transaction wasn't what was agreed to, the changer is not being unreasonable to ask for the mistake back. But I think it is up to the conscience of the other party, legally I think done is done and the OP can choose to carry the 20000 baht on his conscience if he wishes. How heavy that rests would depend on when he found out about the mistake.

 

IANALB I don't think it's legally theft in either case (whether the money handed over matches the receipt or not). The teller handed the money over voluntarily, no threat of force involved, so it's not theft. The teller was doing the math and the counting, so it's not fraud or embezzlement unless there was a prior private agreement between the two to make a fraudulent transaction on purpose. It's a mistake. Their mistake. Their responsibility. Their problem.

 

 

 

[Letseng]

1 hour ago, jerry921 said:

You're right, I went back and re-read the OP and learned the amount was larger than I thought. It's a big error.

 

Still, aren't all transactions final once signed and executed? Or is there a 30 day right of refund on these transactions in Thailand that I'm unaware of? I think the rule is "All sales final". That cuts both ways, and covers mistakes as well as breaking news that causes the rate to skyrocket or plummet.

 

If, on the other hand, the changer simply counted out the wrong number of bills, different than what the receipt said, then since the transaction wasn't what was agreed to, the changer is not being unreasonable to ask for the mistake back. But I think it is up to the conscience of the other party, legally I think done is done and the OP can choose to carry the 20000 baht on his conscience if he wishes. How heavy that rests would depend on when he found out about the mistake.

 

IANALB I don't think it's legally theft in either case (whether the money handed over matches the receipt or not). The teller handed the money over voluntarily, no threat of force involved, so it's not theft. The teller was doing the math and the counting, so it's not fraud or embezzlement unless there was a prior private agreement between the two to make a fraudulent transaction on purpose. It's a mistake. Their mistake. Their responsibility. Their problem.

 

 

 

Try and tell this argument to your bank when they credit your account with 20.000 by mistake. Even a "I already spent it" would not be accepted.

People are quick to complain when the teller counts out 20 Baht less, but are quite happy to keep it when it is in their favor. 

 

No matter what the legal situation is, a decent person would return the money.

 

[Just Weird]

2 hours ago, jerry921 said:

You're right, I went back and re-read the OP and learned the amount was larger than I thought. It's a big error.

 

Still, aren't all transactions final once signed and executed? Or is there a 30 day right of refund on these transactions in Thailand that I'm unaware of? I think the rule is "All sales final". That cuts both ways, and covers mistakes as well as breaking news that causes the rate to skyrocket or plummet.

 

If, on the other hand, the changer simply counted out the wrong number of bills, different than what the receipt said, then since the transaction wasn't what was agreed to, the changer is not being unreasonable to ask for the mistake back. But I think it is up to the conscience of the other party, legally I think done is done and the OP can choose to carry the 20000 baht on his conscience if he wishes. How heavy that rests would depend on when he found out about the mistake.

 

IANALB I don't think it's legally theft in either case (whether the money handed over matches the receipt or not). The teller handed the money over voluntarily, no threat of force involved, so it's not theft. The teller was doing the math and the counting, so it's not fraud or embezzlement unless there was a prior private agreement between the two to make a fraudulent transaction on purpose. It's a mistake. Their mistake. Their responsibility. Their problem.

 

 

 

The point is that the cashier made an error and called the customer several times to explain. The customer conceded that a genuine mistake was made and stopped taking subsequent calls from the exchange (obviously because he knew he was in the wrong) and refused to return the exchange's money.  That can be interpreted as obtaining a pecuniary advantage or theft, i.e. deliberately intending to permanently deprive someone of what is theirs.

 

"The teller handed the money over voluntarily, no threat of force involved, so it's not theft. The teller was doing the math and the counting, so it's not fraud or embezzlement unless there was a prior private agreement between the two to make a fraudulent transaction on purpose. It's a mistake. Their mistake. Their responsibility. Their problem".

A lot of emphatic legal assertions there from someone who started off with, to quote you, IANALB!

Edited April 7, 2018 by Just Weird

[Just Weird]

"Deserted", the "nephew" of the "uncle" has been very quiet for 4 pages, wonder if he got locked up?

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, Just Weird said:

"Deserted", the "nephew" of the "uncle" has been very quiet for 4 pages, wonder if he got locked up?

 

A bit like the 2 girls with fake money in Chiang Mai - no comments for days.

[cgphuket]

Very simple.  If company reports to police and immigration that a foreigner cheated them, and they have his passport number, he will be stopped and arrested at immigration.  Best he can hope for, if he doesn't want to be held in Thailand and go to court, is to pay 20,000 plus gift for the police in order to leave.  Will surely miss his flight.       Contact company and pay back the extra money.   It aint rocket science.

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

A bit like the 2 girls with fake money in Chiang Mai - no comments for days.

There was a recent post on one of those girls Facebook page that they were expected home in 5 days.  I guess they already drank the proceeds of the gofundme account.  

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

"Deserted", the "nephew" of the "uncle" has been very quiet for 4 pages, wonder if he got locked up?

More like he's enjoying his holiday not sitting around a computer to see what messages he's got.

[MyFriend You]

On 4/6/2018 at 3:56 AM, wump said:

If you play for $8000 in Zimbabwe you got much bigger problems than op.

Didn't say that  -  I won $8,000 only changed $400 in chips.  It was a scam to get money out of the casino by letting me win, they knew I was leaving country in the early morning flight, everybody along the way was in on it...they were hoping the customs would confiscate it and every one would get a share.......they got a shock when I showed them my Diplomatic passport, which allows me to take money out of the country, undeclared.  They got screwed, I spent it in S Africa.

[Monomial]

On 4/7/2018 at 12:52 PM, cgphuket said:

Very simple.  If company reports to police and immigration that a foreigner cheated them, and they have his passport number, he will be stopped and arrested at immigration.  Best he can hope for, if he doesn't want to be held in Thailand and go to court, is to pay 20,000 plus gift for the police in order to leave.  Will surely miss his flight.       Contact company and pay back the extra money.   It aint rocket science.

 

Not quite that simple actually. If a company files a police report and produces evidence, such as a contract, then the police will decide whether or not to accept the complaint. If they do, only then will someone be stopped exiting the country.  A company can't simply claim anything they want and get someone held at the border. Much will depend on the trail of evidence they have and if they can prove to the police that the foreigner genuinely cheated them. For all the police know, the clerk stole the money and is trying to blame someone else.

 

It is no different than if you or I wanted to file a complaint against someone. There is a legal procedure that needs to be followed. There is a possibility that he will be stopped, but there is also a possibility that the company does not have sufficient evidence to make this happen.

 

[Letseng]

1 hour ago, Monomial said:

 

Not quite that simple actually. If a company files a police report and produces evidence, such as a contract, then the police will decide whether or not to accept the complaint. If they do, only then will someone be stopped exiting the country.  A company can't simply claim anything they want and get someone held at the border. Much will depend on the trail of evidence they have and if they can prove to the police that the foreigner genuinely cheated them. For all the police know, the clerk stole the money and is trying to blame someone else.

 

It is no different than if you or I wanted to file a complaint against someone. There is a legal procedure that needs to be followed. There is a possibility that he will be stopped, but there is also a possibility that the company does not have sufficient evidence to make this happen.

 

To lay his departure will be punishment enough. New tix for all to pay for. 

[poohy]

Probably best to repay

But send the cash but and make sure hes not out of pocket IE debit all charges to transfer, they can then pick the bones out of that

keep all receipts, these people are probably crooks anyway

[IsaanFam]

Passport for exchanging money? Seems legit.