Squatter problem on land

[Media1]

8 hours ago, 55Jay said:

Never could wrap my head around squatter's rights.  Village I lived in for 4 years, everybody knows where the farangs live, who's shagging who, where to buy yabba, and who owns the land - if not directly, they know the family.   She knows and is just taking the piss.  Ask nicely, then plow it under.

l drag her out by her hair lol. kicking and screaming 

[swissie]

A real life-story:

Ex-Wife and I bought 2 rai. Started building house. A feisty lady popped-up, claiming the land, as she had her goats foraging on the land "for long time".
We went with her to the land-office, us armed with the chanote. She could not produce any witnesses that could tell exactly how many years the goats we foraging on the land.
The boss of the land-office told her, that she had no legal claim to the land. And that was it, the whole "session" lasted less than 10 minutes.
-----------------------
BUT: As the "law of the land" may well be made in Bangkok, the INTERPRETATION of the law may vary from province to province, from amphoe to amphoe, from land-office to land-office. As I have gathered over the years: A "squatter-situation" somewhere in the Isaan compared to the "Central-Region" of Thailand are not weighted equally. But it certainly helps a lot, if the land-title is strictly Chanote and nothing less.
-----------------------
PS: As it happened, the "feisty-Lady" turned out to be a poor soul, living in a shack with no electricity. At first, I intended to hook her up to electricity at my cost. But no, everytime she saw me, she gave me a look that could kill. Daily, for almost fife years. If I would still be living there, nothing would have changed. An enemy for life.

At any rate: During such disputes, the Farang is well advised not to enter "center-stage". Better to play the uninterested bystander and let the Thai GF/Wife expose herself during such disputes. As long as the Thai GF/Wife is taking the interests of the Farang into account, that is.
Cheers.

[Banana7]

I would follow the instructions given by the Police - remove the fence and trees - no advance notice - do it as quickly as possible like lightning!

 

Get the land office to plant the survey markers. As soon as they are planted, take photos of markers and surround area. Put up a fence, if it is not expensive, or at least put up substantial big immovable markers, about 1 meter away from the government markers, in each directions, with a sign "private property - no trespassing".

 

Manage your lawyer. Whenever engaging a lawyer, usually at the first meeting, ask for the process or plan to resolve the matter, the milestones, and the cost to reach each milestone. Confirm everything in writing. Also make sure he is qualified to handle the case - ask how many other similar matters has he handled, how long did they take, and what was the total cost, who was the opposing party's lawyer, what was the end result, ask for dates too. Ask for detailed billing - date time length of event, activity or event description, cost. If he's not qualified or he can't articulate the process and costs, fire him - he doesn't know what he is doing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Banana7

[cyberfarang]

My stupid wife owns 5 rai of land near Chiang Rai. She owned the land before we were married, so it legally belongs to her, nothing to do with me.

 

15 years ago and unbeknown to me, she let her sister-in-law`s cousins grow rice on the land and to this day they are still there. These people have claimed the land as their own and refuse to budge. I checked up Thai law and if been allowed access or to use the land for more than 10 years, it then gives them rights to remain for as long as they wish. I have washed my hands of it and told my wife she may as well write the land off.

 

Seems like the OP`s wife has done similar. I wish him luck with this one because those people have nothing to lose by standing their ground and it also seems the law will be on their side.

[henry15]

20 hours ago, cooked said:

I may well be wrong but as far as I know there is such a thing as squatters rights, if they have been allowed to cultivate land for (?) seven  years then they can continue to use it. I read about people allowing the neighbour's banana trees to spread onto their land only to learn that they had lost rights. So you don't lose ownership, just your rights to use the land.

I really would go for a hearing before going to court, you will gain respect in the village even though it will likely cost you. The old village justice system is still a major factor in many peoples' thinking. A court decision can be appealed, dragged out, involve further fees. 

You are wrong. Squatters rights were abolished during the  reign of Rama V.  Only in Isaan they  think its still exist 555

[cornishcarlos]

5 minutes ago, henry15 said:

You are wrong. Squatters rights were abolished during the  reign of Rama V.  Only in Isaan they  think its still exist 555

 

As with a lot of laws in Thailand, it doesn't really matter if they exist or not... People will do what they want until someone stops them doing what they want !!

His only real option in this case is to follow advice of the police and get rid of the offending trees, put up a fence and then let her initiate any legal proceedings..

Suggest the Op keeps a low profile if possible, never seems to help if you're visible :)

[thaibeachlovers]

Seems to me that if she's "old" the problem will eventually go away all by itself. If OP's wife hasn't needed to use the land, is it such a big deal to just let her stay there? Just clear the banana trees, as the police have said that is OK, and put up your own fence as close as possible to her house, then wait for nature to take its course.

Edited April 6, 2018 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, swissie said:

 

At any rate: During such disputes, the Farang is well advised not to enter "center-stage". Better to play the uninterested bystander and let the Thai GF/Wife expose herself during such disputes. As long as the Thai GF/Wife is taking the interests of the Farang into account, that is.
Cheers.

Best advice I've read on this thread. It's not the OP's land anyway, whether he paid for it or not ( unless he's become a Thai citizen ).

[tassieman]

[OP Reply] Thanks again all...looks like the POA will be (1) to knock the fence down asap and cut out the trees; (2) obtain an interim court notice stating ownership; (3) deliver the squatter an eviction notice; (4) if she persists then return to the police and request they take action.

 

What happens next is anyone's guess...but at least the ball will be in the squatter's court and she will have to resort to court action. If she doesn't go to the court and continues to try and occupy the land at least we will have enlisted the police to assist.

[scubascuba3]

[OP Reply] Thanks again all...looks like the POA will be (1) to knock the fence down asap and cut out the trees; (2) obtain an interim court notice stating ownership; (3) deliver the squatter an eviction notice; (4) if she persists then return to the police and request they take action.
 
What happens next is anyone's guess...but at least the ball will be in the squatter's court and she will have to resort to court action. If she doesn't go to the court and continues to try and occupy the land at least we will have enlisted the police to assist.

It will be interesting to hear how you plan to cut down the fence and trees in terms of the lady not being there

[dickjones2018]

friend of wife, got land from her mom... found that some "squatter" build a HOUSE & a fence on it...

[tassieman]

On ‎6‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 5:51 PM, scubascuba3 said:

On ‎6‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 12:53 PM, tassieman said:

[OP Reply] Thanks again all...looks like the POA will be (1) to knock the fence down asap and cut out the trees; (2) obtain an interim court notice stating ownership; (3) deliver the squatter an eviction notice; (4) if she persists then return to the police and request they take action.
 
What happens next is anyone's guess...but at least the ball will be in the squatter's court and she will have to resort to court action. If she doesn't go to the court and continues to try and occupy the land at least we will have enlisted the police to assist.

It will be interesting to hear how you plan to cut down the fence and trees in terms of the lady not being there

well, according to my wife, the guy we rented the ponds to was planning to go in last night with a couple of local yokels to push the fence down... a bit of fighting fire with fire etc. and, to those who suggested the farang should stay out of the firing line 100% agree. Fortuitously, I have had to visit Cambodia on business anyway and so well well away from any action that might transpire.

 

Hey, on some other posts I have read about getting the Army involved as a sort of alternative to the police...how does this work if someone knows pls? thanks, TM

[tassieman]

[OP UPDATE] not sure anyone's really interested in the "Battle of the Prawn Farm" but here goes lol. 

My wife has enlisted the help of another senior lawyer who has advised we pursue a criminal rather as well as a civil action against the squatter.

We went back to Chachoengsao last week with lawyers and met with the local police. For a price, they came to the land and spoke to the squatter (who by now was starting to erect a hut with a group of local navvies and was starting to farm the ponds herself).

After endless discussion on site, we went back to the cop shop and the squatter was also asked to attend. 

The police again confirmed our right to demolish the fence and structures.

We returned to the site and commenced doing so. Smashing the fence and gates etc.

Just as we were finishing (about to launch into the banana trees), my wife called a halt to proceedings.

The police had caller her and said that the provincial head of Chachoengsao had been contacted by the squatter's lawyer and the provincial head of Chachoengsao  then contacted the police to say "lay off".

Personally, I find this all a bit hard to believe, especially at 4 pm on a Friday afternoon, but all I can do is trust my wife here (yes...STOP laughing please lol)

So we demolished 95% of the fence and yes it felt wonderful :) 

So, awaiting next installment in the saga.

I suggested to my wife we offer to recompense the squatter for the cost of the fence/labour on the undertaking she or associates do not trespass and await the court's decision.

I think it would look good in the eyes of the court that we are not entirely heartless people etc etc (and we are not...well, at least I'm not hahahahaha)

 

End of this installment! As a bit of a newbie to things Thailand (and especially in the provinces) THE WHOLE EPISODE HAS BEEN RELATIVELY MIND BLOWING. The fact that one of our lawyer associates was pistol-toting was a BIG surprise to this tassieman. It's the wild west for sure. A bit too full on for me lol. TM

 

[eisfeld]

4 hours ago, tassieman said:

[OP UPDATE]

Thanks for keeping us posted. What you have just found out is that all you did was bring a few more people (police and lawyers) to get some cash out of this but the real problem wasn't solved. All this talking doesn't lead anywhere with a squatter like that. You need to either stand your own ground (literally) and just get rid of all the structures, errect a fence and call the police when the squatter is trespassing or get a court order and let the police enforce it.

 

The old lady squatter getting a lawyer who then asks the village head to call the police to tell you to stop? Yea right! :) She probably knows someone or has someone in the family who knows someone etc. pp.

[swissie]

This has turned into quite a story. (I am contemplating buying the movie rights to this one.)
But I can't say that I am surprised.

In a country where the law is perceived as a mere recommendation (a guideline, if you will), no wonder that people come to the realisation that there is no "legal-certainty" in la-la-land.

But things are looking up. Less and less Farangs are willing to invest their life savings in la-la-land.
Rumor has it, that only Farangs having undergone a recent lobotomy are still doing it.
Cheers. 

[tassieman]

11 hours ago, swissie said:

[OP] (not) funny you say that (less and less Farangs are willing to invest their life savings in la-la-land) cos the incident has certainly soured my love affair with the LoS. In hindsight I now wish I'd stayed out of it and stayed at home on the sofa, let my wife try and fix it cos it's her property. It's also caused a massive rift twixt she and me, but at least shown me first hand some of the entrenched issues in living in the LoS. 

11 hours ago, swissie said:

(I am contemplating buying the movie rights to this one.)

They are yours my friend  . Will post what happens in court at some stage. I have decamped to Cambodia and will probably head back to the Land o' Oz and try to refind a little sanity...I know i left it somewhere. Thanks all again for input.  

 

[tassieman]

[OP] well, the plot continues to thicken. The squatter has laid a criminal charge against my wife for damage to property (dismantling the fence). I have advised my wife to instruct her lawyer to lay a similar charge based on the damage to my wife's property caused by the fence construction and the denial of access which has led to fish stock losses.

To any legally-type eagles who may be reading this. A Plan C is to put the land up for sale, lick our wounds a little, but wash our hands of the whole thing and let someone else deal with the squatter. The matter isn't yet before the court and so I can't see any problem with doing this (offering the land for sale). To me it makes a definitive statement: you can only sell land if you have the rightful ownership and I also want to keep the pressure on the squatter and whoever is clearly supporting her...also change the ball game and possibly bring in other players (real estate agents/buyer) who may have relevant connections and means of pressure. Advice/strategies appreciated. TM

[eisfeld]

Sorry but that sounds just like making it even more of a headache. Who's gonna buy the land with a squatter on it and legal issues against the owner? Nobody. And it's not gonna wash your hands of anything if she really wants to pursue legal charges because of damage to property. That doesn't just disappear...

 

I would stop the nonsense, get a court order to evict her, let the police do that and be done with it.

[tassieman]

18 hours ago, eisfeld said:

I would stop the nonsense, get a court order to evict her, let the police do that and be done with it.

[OP] Yes, point taken and this is where it's all heading. The police insisted we pay the squatter damages for the fence and a 'fine' to have the criminal charge of property damage against my wife dropped. In return for the payment, the squatter has signed an agreement to vacate the land in 7 days taking the remains of the fence with her (which I doubt she will do, but...). After the 7 days we can remove any remaining structures  the banana trees and corn but have to pay some minor compensation. The squatter will have to take the matter to court now if she so wishes. Anyway, as I write our new fence and locked gate is being constructed. It's been pretty messy but hopefully we have regained control of the situation (for a hefty price). cheers, TM

[DILLIGAD]

When somebody is doing something illegal, why is the oneness on you, to pay to move them along & reimburse them for anything. I have seen instances similar to this so many times here and it just highlights that the people enforcing the laws are mindless numbskulls.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blackcab]

We had exactly the same problem. We paid a senior person in the district office to clear the land for us. They sent 4 garbage trucks, a water lorry and about 20 street cleaners. I am not joking.

 

The shacks were dismantled, everything was cleaned and the garbage was taken away in short order.

 

The squatters decided they didn't want to cross the local officials so they walked about 100 meters away and set up on another piece of land.

 

Our problem solved.

[Damrongsak]

On 5/1/2018 at 12:52 PM, swissie said:

...Rumor has it, that only Farangs having undergone a recent lobotomy are still doing it...

Maybe that explains why I lost consciousnesses for about 3 days after my wedding and woke up with a splitting headache.

 

We own a little lot up the street from our house in Loei. Very narrow.  A landlord next door build a little row of student rooms (it's near a teacher's college).  He put a brick/mortar fence about 2 meters on our side of the property line, making it too narrow to be of any real use.  We were in the US and the land was in my sis-in-law's name.   The encroacher is an A-hole and government worker.  Thought he could bully.  Sis-in-law's husband was also a govt worker and she takes no prisoners.  It took perhaps 3-5 years to get through the courts and make him move the wall.  The court got to the point where they threatened to have his government pension taken away.  I still want to meet the dude some day and let him know who he was really screwing with - he had no clue. We were making good money at the time, so legal fees were of no concern whatsoever.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Damrongsak

[JAZZDOG]

Two givens;

-Attorneys get paid more for not solving problems and taking allot time not solving problems is best

 

-Old lady is going to be pissed no matter what when she gets booted. She has no money.

 

Get a bad assed aggressive attorney that agrees to roll her off immediately. Bull rush her hard so she understands there are no options but to leave. Had a similar problem in Central America and paid to have it done, employed an armed guard with dogs for a short while. Don't worry she will go squat elsewhere. If that doesn't work do a Dave Chappell and kick her right in the ..........

[tassieman]

[OP] Thanks again all who have offered advice/support. Looks like things are on the mend at the land (which is great for my wife having probably spent BHT200,000+ on lawyers and 'gifts' to them who will remain unnamed, as well as compensation to the squatter for the damage to the fence we broke). In the end, it was a bit of good luck that swayed the day. My wife's chanoot for the land office recognized holding extended across the road and onto the disputed land. In the last meet up with the squatter and her daughter and son-in-law at the cop shop, they threw in the proverbial towel. My wife is now building a fence of her own and now she can continue to farm the ponds unhindered (hopefully). I have had enough of the LoS for the time being; well paid job's is still open in the Land of Oz to which I shall retreat....a little wiser for my time in Thailand :). Take care all, thanks again, thread pretty much closed methinks, cheers, TM.

Edited May 19, 2018 by tassieman
spelling

[eisfeld]

Glad it turned out well. Hope it stays that way. You learned some good lessons on the way. 200k for nothing basically. Next time, you hopefully can skip some of that spend :)