Thailand’s Military Forges Ahead with Israel Artillery System

[dave_boo]

4 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Have any of the critics on this thread considered that the purchase value of  US$26 million is chump change and is insignificant as far as purchases go? This suggests a limited number of items will be purchased and that they are most likely intended for specialized tasks. It is not unreasonable for Thailand to purchase new equipment to replace obsolete or broken equipment. Artillery pieces have a limited lifespan because of metal fatigue.  Some of the current artillery pieces in service are out of date and obsolete.

 

In case everyone has forgotten, Cambodia has  shelled Thailand in recent years, and there is significant turmoil on the border with  Myanmar due to the drug cartels. As well there is an insurgency in the south.

Don't go talking sense.

 

Most likely these armchair generals haven't even heard of STANAG. There's a reason that an Aussie can pick up an M14 carbine's magazine, slap it into his Austrian made bullpup and continue fighting. 

 

Granted, technically the ATMOS uses the NATO JBMoU but same same.

 

[Eric Loh]

15 minutes ago, dave_boo said:

Don't go talking sense.

 

Most likely these armchair generals haven't even heard of STANAG. There's a reason that an Aussie can pick up an M14 carbine's magazine, slap it into his Austrian made bullpup and continue fighting. 

 

Granted, technically the ATMOS uses the NATO JBMoU but same same.

 

Talking sense is considering that this military only fight internal wars and no major wars in the last 25 years. Talking sense is when there are more social needs and channeling the procurement  budget to improve education. Talking sense is when most military procurements are shrouded with corruption and operational malfunction. 

[Thechook]

Still partying and spending everything on toys for the military that they will never use.

[stephen tracy]

5 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Have any of the critics on this thread considered that the purchase value of  US$26 million is chump change and is insignificant as far as purchases go? This suggests a limited number of items will be purchased and that they are most likely intended for specialized tasks. It is not unreasonable for Thailand to purchase new equipment to replace obsolete or broken equipment. Artillery pieces have a limited lifespan because of metal fatigue.  Some of the current artillery pieces in service are out of date and obsolete.

 

In case everyone has forgotten, Cambodia has  shelled Thailand in recent years, and there is significant turmoil on the border with  Myanmar due to the drug cartels. As well there is an insurgency in the south.

In the case of Myanmar drug cartels and the southern insurgency, I'm not sure how effective an artillery system would be... or a submarine.

[JAG]

7 hours ago, dave_boo said:

Don't go talking sense.

 

Most likely these armchair generals haven't even heard of STANAG. There's a reason that an Aussie can pick up an M14 carbine's magazine, slap it into his Austrian made bullpup and continue fighting. 

 

Granted, technically the ATMOS uses the NATO JBMoU but same same.

 

Umh.. The M14 is a 7.62 calibre weapon.

The "bullpup" Steyr F88 (actually made in Australia but never mind) is a 5.56 calibre weapon.

Neither the magazine nor the rounds will fit...

 

Signed: "an armchair general"!

Edited April 17, 2018 by JAG

[JAG]

11 hours ago, hansnl said:

I presume you are in a nice and cozy cocoon?

Don't know about the trouble in the south?

Don't know about the rogue state and groups in the west?

Don't know about the communist states in the north and the east?

Don't know about the badly covered tensions in the east?

The Thai military isn't bloated, it's on par with the total population.

But underpowered and loaded with material that might be called insufficient, hence the acquisitions.

The trouble in the south will not be solved by artillery. A 155mm howitzer is not effective against a "drive by shooter" with a pistol mounted on a Honda Wave.

 

The rogue state and groups in the west - I assume that you are referring to the drug and smuggling gangs along the long mountainous jungle covered border with Burma? A heavy wheeled artillery system such as this is effectively road bound in such terrain, and well-made roads with strong bridges at that. these are not very common in this area. Moreover, the concentration of fire produced by these weapons has to be controlled and directed by forward observers, moving on foot with infantry through thick jungle, searching for and finding this enemy. That is not an activity which I suspect the Thai army will be too enthusiastic about. The alternative, speculative fire on locations which you think might contain the enemy, is totally ineffective.

 

The communist state to the north and east has not the slightest interest, means nor reason, for invading Thailand.

 

The tensions in the East (border clashes with Cambodia ) have largely been initiated by Thailand.

 

This system is heavy and requires hard surfaces or good roads to move about. Not a problem in Israel, where it was designed, rather more of a problem in mountainous jungle such as we have here. It also has a very high rate of fire, which means lots and lots of equally heavy and equally road bound trucks to keep it resupplied. 

 

Its a set of shiny new toys, nothing more or less.

Edited April 17, 2018 by JAG

[Baerboxer]

14 hours ago, JAG said:

By my reckoning that makes 15 different types of howitzers, 7 155mm calibre and 8 105mm calibre.

 

The logistic, ammunition holdings and resupply, repair and training systems needed to keep that variety of equipment working and their crews trained (especially bearing in mind that most will be conscripts serving for two years or less) must be a fantastic effort!

That Quartermaster must be a very very busy chap!

 

Logistics, planning, maintenance & repair, servicing, training - you must be joking! 

 

No need to train, already know everything. No need service, never goes wrong or breaks; and anyway if foreign goods not work properly just throw away and buy new more expensive ones!

 

QM won't be as busy as those jolly procurement chappies!

[Baerboxer]

7 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Entirely initiated by elements in the Thai military and the Yellow Shirts. 

 

Yeah because the dictator and former Khmer Rouge terrorist Hun Sen would never ever do anything naughty.

 

Especially when his eternal buddy was in power. 

[Baerboxer]

32 minutes ago, JAG said:

The trouble in the south will not be solved by artillery. A 155mm howitzer is not effective against a "drive by shooter" with a pistol mounted on a Honda Wave.

 

The rogue state and groups in the west - I assume that you are referring to the drug and smuggling gangs along the long mountainous jungle covered border with Burma? A heavy wheeled artillery system such as this is effectively road bound in such terrain, and well-made roads with strong bridges at that. these are not very common in this area. Moreover, the concentration of fire produced by these weapons has to be controlled and directed by forward observers, moving on foot with infantry through thick jungle, searching for and finding this enemy. That is not an activity which I suspect the Thai army will be too enthusiastic about. The alternative, speculative fire on locations which you think might contain the enemy, is totally ineffective.

 

The communist state to the north and east has not the slightest interest, means nor reason, for invading Thailand.

 

The tensions in the East (border clashes with Cambodia ) have largely been initiated by Thailand.

 

This system is heavy and requires hard surfaces or good roads to move about. Not a problem in Israel, where it was designed, rather more of a problem in mountainous jungle such as we have here. It also has a very high rate of fire, which means lots and lots of equally heavy and equally road bound trucks to keep it resupplied. 

 

Its a set of shiny new toys, nothing more or less.

Israel is surrounded by many enemies, most if not all of whom have called for it's destruction at various times since it's founding as a state.

 

Not sure Thailand faces these types of "threat".

 

But hey ho. All the boys have got to have their share of new toys.

 

Perhaps they're going to adopt a sort of creeping artillery barrage to counter those drive-by Honda Wave shootings. Sure they'll be some collateral damage but they might hit a shooter now and then with a bit of luck! 

 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Obsessed. 

 

BTW the Preah Vihear temple dispute happened in 2008 while Samak was PM. 

 

From Wikipedia and just for clarification: According to the Cambodian ambassador to the United Nations, the most recent dispute began on 15 July 2008 when about 50 Thai soldiers moved into the Keo Sikha Kiri Svara pagoda vicinity which he claims is located in Cambodia's territory about 300 metres (980 ft) from the Temple of Preah Vihear.

 

That is not forgetting it was the Yellow Shirts protesting at the site that was the trigger for the whole nationalist event after Cambodia announced they were applying for World Heritage status for the temple. 

 

It was all a sham at the time designed to make Samak's government seem ineffective and as a ploy to try and impeach the cabinet for supporting the Cambodian application and to kick out the elected government.

 

Again, the biggest threat to democracy still is, as was then, these elitist, nationalist Thai groups working with the military.

 

 

 

Oh well, if the Cambodian Ambassador told the UN. After all, no one lies to the UN do they? Just ask the Russians, Burmese, Israelis, Americans, British, etc etc etc.

 

And Hun Sen appointing his Thai buddy as a Cambodian Government Minister, whilst a fugitive criminal, was bound to improve the relationships between the two countries. Or did you miss that?

 

Obsessed - yes, your obsession with blaming the Yellow shirts with everything whilst trying to ignore the wrongs of the Shins and Reds  is noticeable.

 

Nothing to do with democracy. All about getting control of the trough and finding ways to line your pockets are quickly and bountiful as possible.

 

 

 

 

[lvr181]

15 hours ago, JAG said:

Its a set of shiny new toys, nothing more or less.

There is more - probably large brown envelopes as well. 

[Eric Loh]

14 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Oh well, if the Cambodian Ambassador told the UN. After all, no one lies to the UN do they? Just ask the Russians, Burmese, Israelis, Americans, British, etc etc etc.

 

And Hun Sen appointing his Thai buddy as a Cambodian Government Minister, whilst a fugitive criminal, was bound to improve the relationships between the two countries. Or did you miss that?

 

Obsessed - yes, your obsession with blaming the Yellow shirts with everything whilst trying to ignore the wrongs of the Shins and Reds  is noticeable.

 

Nothing to do with democracy. All about getting control of the trough and finding ways to line your pockets are quickly and bountiful as possible.

 

 

 

 

And your obsession with blaming Thaksin is just as noticeable even to the extent of mentioning him in a topic which is not related to him. 

[dave_boo]

20 hours ago, JAG said:

Umh.. The M14 is a 7.62 calibre weapon.

The "bullpup" Steyr F88 (actually made in Australia but never mind) is a 5.56 calibre weapon.

Neither the magazine nor the rounds will fit...

 

Signed: "an armchair general"!

Congratulations you won the pedantic of the day award. There's no way I could have originally had M16 and then decided to change it to M4 and simply didn't hit the backspace key enough times. 

 

Oh, that's right, you'd have to acknowledge the carbine section which would have indicated I wasn't talking about the M1A carbine or SOCOM.

[JAG]

27 minutes ago, dave_boo said:

Congratulations you won the pedantic of the day award. There's no way I could have originally had M16 and then decided to change it to M4 and simply didn't hit the backspace key enough times. 

 

Oh, that's right, you'd have to acknowledge the carbine section which would have indicated I wasn't talking about the M1A carbine or SOCOM.

Nothing pedantic at all. You spouted lots of abbreviations and initials, which incidentally I and several other posters on here I know are very familiar with but would really serve to convince the uninitiated that you were an expert, bumped your gums scornfully about "armchair generals" and then made a blatantly wrong statement. Simple matter to replace "M14" with "M16", but you didn't did you. It was after all the central point of your post.

[unblocktheplanet]

Just wondering who got greased in this deal...

[Oziex1]

Lot of posts discussing the need for more Military hardware. Come on we know what its all about, some posters have nailed it. It's the trough.

[Jonah Tenner]

On 17.4.2018 at 8:47 AM, Anak Nakal said:

Next buy UAC!

(Underwater Aircraft Carrier)

I hear Marvel and Disney have some surplus...