Is it possible to naturalise a child with foreign parents who was born in Thailand?

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

3 minutes ago, Fab5BKK said:

"Dura lex, sed lex", the law is harsh but it's the law

Laws change over time. For good reason. Jus soli seems to me to be a more correct way of processing things - with some caveats included of course. The law is the law for better or worse, often the latter, one must accept that. Bureaucracy however, is the red tape that keeps the pen pushers in meaningless day jobs. 

Edited April 18, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[sanemax]

18 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

So renouncing the Burmese passport / citizenship might be a better bet?

I really wouldnt know what to suggest .

Reason being that I do not know the laws and there are so many variables .

Add to that that the laws change and some are upheld are some are not .

I am not even sure that any rigid laws exist , regarding this issue .

And even if rigid laws do exist , its down to the authorities as to whether they implement them .

    Bangkok doesnt seem to eager to give out Thai Nationality to foreigners , although there have been new laws passed last year to resolve the issue .

   You could get your Daughter a UK PP now and just keep quiet about it and not use it , so that it will be there in the future if She needs it , but then again, you run the risk of the Thai authorities finding out about it

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

23 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I really wouldnt know what to suggest .

Reason being that I do not know the laws and there are so many variables .

Add to that that the laws change and some are upheld are some are not .

I am not even sure that any rigid laws exist , regarding this issue .

And even if rigid laws do exist , its down to the authorities as to whether they implement them .

    Bangkok doesnt seem to eager to give out Thai Nationality to foreigners , although there have been new laws passed last year to resolve the issue .

   You could get your Daughter a UK PP now and just keep quiet about it and not use it , so that it will be there in the future if She needs it , but then again, you run the risk of the Thai authorities finding out about it

This is my point about the bureaucracy of it all, there are too many regulations in some areas and none in others. I understand the need for legislation in certain areas regarding citizenship of a nation - particularly one like Thailand, but even if one's cause is justified, the finality of it can come down to a local officials decision and given their intellect and venal nature, it really shouldn't do. I will definitely get my little'n a British passport, that's a given - down the line, but getting one ahead of my attempts to resolve the Thai ID issue might be detrimental. Nightmare!

Edited April 18, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[StevieAus]

Sorry to be negative but at this time I don't think it will happen

We live in the North Chiang Mai Province and have a US friend with a Burmese wife

They have two kids born here who can get a US passport but according to our lawyer in Chiang Mai who is also a Barrister at this stage unless one parent isThai no passport

They are both too young for ID cards

[jackdd]

Your GF is obviously now Burmese and not stateless, so i don't think she can become Thai anymore by some special way.

Your daughter has Burmese and British parents and thus can get a Burmese and British passport.

In my opinion their only way to become Thai would be to go the "normal" way that any foreigner can go.

Edited April 18, 2018 by jackdd

[phil2407]

Ask Ubonjoe - he’s pretty excellent at legal things 

[LukKrueng]

On 4/17/2018 at 4:38 PM, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Thanks for your kind words. I have enquired through a legal contact as I have mentioned, but have not yet contacted the MoI, but now that I have looked into it a little more, I certainly will do. It could be that she will qualify for a passport (if not an ID card) already, but given that neither her mother or myself are Thai nationals, I find it unlikely. I have a friend who acquired a Thai passport for his son who was 2 years old at the time, so I'm pretty sure it's possible to get a passport at least, but maybe not the ID? Although I was under the impression you needed the ID before the passport was granted. Maybe I'm mistaken. Seems like the Thai government  is being typically irresponsible and xenophobic in it's historic approach to this matter, although that might be slowly changing due to pressure from international law courts and the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC) which they are technically violating by not allowing children born to Burmese migrants or long term residents (such as my gf) in Thailand citizenship. http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/Burmese-Migrants-in-Thailand-7.html - this explains so. I will have to follow this up with the MoI, but after reading through a fair amount of info online it seems that my daughter should qualify for citizenship but that I should delay getting her a UK PP or taking her out the country in order to facilitate it, which is a shame, but something I'd do if it meant she was granted the Thai passport asap.

You are confusing Thai citizenship with Thai ID card. Yes, in order to get a Thai ID card (the real one, not the pink one) you must be a Thai citizen. According to the Thai Law, every Thai person MUST get a Thai ID card at age 15, and always carry the card with them. During the Yinglak administration the law was amended so now children can get the ID card at age 7 or so, but this is not obligatory until they are 15. A passport can be issued to an infant as soon as a birth certificate is issued.

 

As for citizenship laws - every country has its own laws. For instance, any person born in the US of A is automatically a US citizen, regardless of his parents citizenship / status in the USA. In Thailand - at least one parent MUST be a Thai citizen in order for a child to get the Thai citizenship. There are other countries in the world with similar laws and that doesn't break any international law. The Thai government has been processing the status of stateless hill tribe people for a long time now, but are far from being done with it. In your case, your spouse is a Burmese national and you are a British national therefore not stateless and do not qualify for Thai citizenship nor do your children.

About 10 years ago came to force a regulation that children who were born in Thailand in a specific period of time and could prove good ties to Thailand - could qualify for Thai citizenship. I personally know of families that had some of their children born within that period and got the citizenship, and their other children, born out of that specific period (same parents, same household, wrong date of birth) didn't get the citizenship. I also heard from 1 person that a child born in Thailand to a permanent resident (PR) can get a Thai citizenship once they reach 18 years of age. I only heard that from one source so I don't know if true or not.

 

 

 

On 4/17/2018 at 4:41 PM, Lungstib said:

As far as I am aware a child needs one Thai Parent and born in Thailand to automatically qualify for a passport. Yes, you hear of kids just born here getting some special dispensation but its still rare. The office you choose to tackle this problem may be critical. Some local government departments do things that others wont. Up in the far north where I live we have many Thai Yai or Shan who are a race split by the Thai/Burma border with many still coming over to Thailand for the supposed better chance of work. We are talking hundreds of cases and our local office is well known to be the worst for helping sort out Thai I.D. for anyone. My friends children who were born here and got Thai I.D. now live in France and have French passports. They have still been allowed to keep both but in the past, especially boys, could not keep another passport if they wanted to hold on to their Thai one. Things may be changing but they change slowly and not always all over the country. It wont be easy.

 

The law regarding single citizenship in Thailand was changed many years ago (well over 20) and ever since then Thai citizens can hold their Thai citizenship even after they get a second one. As far as I understand from many threads here on TVF there is even a special extension of stay for Thai nationals who come into Thailand using their other nationality's passport and would like to stay longer than their original permit to stay based on their other passport.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

13 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

You are confusing Thai citizenship with Thai ID card. Yes, in order to get a Thai ID card (the real one, not the pink one) you must be a Thai citizen. According to the Thai Law, every Thai person MUST get a Thai ID card at age 15, and always carry the card with them. During the Yinglak administration the law was amended so now children can get the ID card at age 7 or so, but this is not obligatory until they are 15. A passport can be issued to an infant as soon as a birth certificate is issued.

 

As for citizenship laws - every country has its own laws. For instance, any person born in the US of A is automatically a US citizen, regardless of his parents citizenship / status in the USA. In Thailand - at least one parent MUST be a Thai citizen in order for a child to get the Thai citizenship. There are other countries in the world with similar laws and that doesn't break any international law. The Thai government has been processing the status of stateless hill tribe people for a long time now, but are far from being done with it. In your case, your spouse is a Burmese national and you are a British national therefore not stateless and do not qualify for Thai citizenship nor do your children.

About 10 years ago came to force a regulation that children who were born in Thailand in a specific period of time and could prove good ties to Thailand - could qualify for Thai citizenship. I personally know of families that had some of their children born within that period and got the citizenship, and their other children, born out of that specific period (same parents, same household, wrong date of birth) didn't get the citizenship. I also heard from 1 person that a child born in Thailand to a permanent resident (PR) can get a Thai citizenship once they reach 18 years of age. I only heard that from one source so I don't know if true or not.

 

 

 

 

The law regarding single citizenship in Thailand was changed many years ago (well over 20) and ever since then Thai citizens can hold their Thai citizenship even after they get a second one. As far as I understand from many threads here on TVF there is even a special extension of stay for Thai nationals who come into Thailand using their other nationality's passport and would like to stay longer than their original permit to stay based on their other passport.

I don't see that I am confusing anything mate. The holding of a passport or national identification card follows if you ARE a citizen of a country. I know you aren't compelled to have one if you don't want one (re: a passport), but the two are inextricably linked, so this is a moot point. The passport is what would be most important for us anyway, as we would of course need it to travel on and to prove that our daughter is a Thai national, thus underscoring my point. 

Edited April 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

to prove that our daughter is in fact a Thai national

But your daughter isn't a Thai national

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

Well, it seems like my girl renouncing her Burmese passport / nationality might technically help the situation as she would be stateless, but then we would still have the problem of my daughter being entitled to a British passport. Jus soli is still the situation that makes sense and is employed (in at part at least) by most civilised countries, including mine. This situation is patently absurd and unnecessary too. In the end just bribing one some local official to get the ball rolling might be the best bet IF we continue to pursue the Thai nationality. I know of people who have done so and got what they wanted - Mon people living in the same village as my missus for example. Shame, but if left in the hands of my bird it would probably work out, as we all know that $$ trumps the law in this place.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

But your daughter isn't a Thai national

I AM AWARE OF THAT YOU TOOL! Why would I start this thread if she WAS a Thai national!?!?! This was hypothetical context. <deleted> - read...carefully.

[jackdd]

1 minute ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Well, it seems like my girl renouncing her Burmese passport / nationality might technically help the situation as she would be stateless

I do of course not know the Burmese laws, but i highly doubt you can renounce a nationality if it would make you stateless.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

I do of course not know the Burmese laws, but i highly doubt you can renounce a nationality if it would make you stateless.

Yes, possible. I do not know. It's all a big mess of stupid <deleted> that makes little sense.

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

In the end just bribing one some local official to get the ball rolling might be the best bet IF we continue to pursue the Thai nationality. I know of people who have done so and got what they wanted

This was difficult, but possible 5-10 years ago .

Of the many Thai I.D applications from stateless people , to get your application to the top of the queue , you could pay 400 000 Baht (bribe).

   Now its all computerised , thats neigh on impossible

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

 

 

Edited April 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

29 minutes ago, sanemax said:

This was difficult, but possible 5-10 years ago .

Of the many Thai I.D applications from stateless people , to get your application to the top of the queue , you could pay 400 000 Baht (bribe).

   Now its all computerised , thats neigh on impossible

The overwhelming response is becoming quite negative here, it may well be realistic, but I always refuse to give up without a good fight. What I will say is that I know of people who were not 'technically' eligible for Thai citizenship that received passports / ID through bribes, if it was more than 5 years ago I'm not sure, however. They paid around 100k. I would imagine it's still possible, computerised or not. It would depend on the official's tenacity / connections more than the system I'd say. I would obviously rather not give these corrupt turds a penny of mine or my family's money though, and instead proceed down legal channels until they are exhausted. If Thai nationality is not possible then I would have to look into exactly what the restrictions of our daughter remaining here with a Burmese and British passport would be. I don't see why it would be any different from my girlfriends situation, she can live in Thailand legally for all of her life, but is restricted in her ability to vote/own land/property outside of Kanchanaburi and work without a permit, (although she has had a WP for years and works legally in BKK). If this were the worst case scenario, that wouldn't be so bad, but it would still seem unfair to me, coming from the UK where we have much more lenient jus soli based law regarding citizenship.

Edited April 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[sanemax]

24 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Jus soli is still the situation that makes sense and is employed (in at part at least) by most civilised countries, including mine.

Thats not correct .

Children born in the U.K. to two foreign Parents and not British citizens .

If one of the Parents is not a British citizen , but has the right to live in the U.K permanently , then the Child is British .

    

[jackdd]

48 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Yes, possible. I do not know. It's all a big mess of stupid <deleted> that makes little sense.

What exactly does not make sense for you? Thai citizenship is only possible by blood or naturalization

Obviously at least one of your GFs parents is Burmese (and the other is also Burmese or at least not Thai), because your GF had no problems to get her Burmese passport, her parents have to be registered somewhere in Burma.

 

I would assume the situation was about like this:

Your GFs parents are Burmese. They came to Thailand, because probably the life here was better. When they came here they told Thai authorities to be stateless, which was not true, because they are actually Burmese. But if they would have said they are Burmese they would probably have been deported.

Then your GF was born, as child of "stateless" people, and she got her residence permit based on this.

If the situation is like this, then your GF (and her parents) was actually never eligible to stay in Thailand like this, and the Burmese passport she now has proves this.

I would make sure to not tell anybody about this. Maybe theoretically they could still be deported for this.

 

Burmese mother, British father, no right to have Thai citizenship, that's the legal situation in which you are.

If your daughter would somehow apply for citizenship because she is stateless (which she isn't, she does obviously have dual citizenship) Thai authorities see your name in her Birth certificate and tell her to get the citizenship of her dad.

I see the only chance for you daughter to be eligible for Thai citizenship if your GF becomes Thai.

Your GF works in Thailand, can't she just go the regular naturalization way?

 

 

 

Edit:

From Wikipedia: Thailand operated a system of pure jus soli prior to 1972, but afterwards due to illegal immigration from Burma the Nationality Act was amended to require that both parents be legally resident and domiciled in Thailand for at least five years in order for their child to be granted Thai citizenship at birth.

 

I've never heard that somebody did this, but who knows.... So if you happen to live in Thailand since 5 years this would be another way (But maybe they are talking about permanent residents)

Edited April 19, 2018 by jackdd

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

19 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Thats not correct .

Children born in the U.K. to two foreign Parents and not British citizens .

If one of the Parents is not a British citizen , but has the right to live in the U.K permanently , then the Child is British .

    

Which is exactly our situation here in Thailand! There are many people who are 'settled' (which is a loose term in itself). Especially during our membership of the EU, there have been many thousands who have become 'settled', but are not originally British citizens, who have had children in the UK that have become British (passport carrying) citizens. I personally know of 2 myself, from Polish decent. So the law is a lot more relaxed and in my opinion, fairer, in the UK on this matter.

 

37 minutes ago, sanemax said:

This was difficult, but possible 5-10 years ago .

Of the many Thai I.D applications from stateless people , to get your application to the top of the queue , you could pay 400 000 Baht (bribe).

   Now its all computerised , thats neigh on impossible

The overwhelming response is becoming quite negative here, it may well be realistic, but I always refuse to give up without a good fight. What I will say is that I know of people who were not 'technically' eligible for Thai citizenship received passports / ID through bribes, if it was more than 5 years ago I'm not sure, however. They paid around 100k. I would imagine it's still possible, computerised or not. It would depend on the official's tenacity / connections more than the system I'd say. I would obviously rather not give these corrupt turds a penny of my or my family's money though, and instead proceed down legal channels until they are exhausted. If Thai nationality is not possible then I would have to look into the restrictions of our daughter remaining here with a Burmese and British passport would be. I don't see why it would be any different from my girlfriends situation, she can live in Thailand legally for all of her life, but is restricted in her ability to vote/own land/property outside of Kanchanaburi and work without a permit, (although she has had a WP for years and works legally in BKK). If this were the worst case scenario, that wouldn't be so bad, but it would still seem unfair to me, coming from the UK where we have much more lenient jus soli based law regarding citizenship - as do most decent countries.

Edited April 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

29 minutes ago, jackdd said:

What exactly does not make sense for you? Thai citizenship is only possible by blood or naturalization

Obviously at least one of your GFs parents is Burmese (and the other is also Burmese or at least not Thai), because your GF had no problems to get her Burmese passport, her parents have to be registered somewhere in Burma.

 

I would assume the situation was about like this:

Your GFs parents are Burmese. They came to Thailand, because probably the life here was better. When they came here they told Thai authorities to be stateless, which was not true, because they are actually Burmese. But if they would have said they are Burmese they would probably have been deported.

Then your GF was born, as child of "stateless" people, and she got her residence permit based on this.

If the situation is like this, then your GF (and her parents) was actually never eligible to stay in Thailand like this, and the Burmese passport she now has proves this.

I would make sure to not tell anybody about this. Maybe theoretically they could still be deported for this.

 

Burmese mother, British father, no right to have Thai citizenship, that's the legal situation in which you are.

If your daughter would somehow apply for citizenship because she is stateless (which she isn't, she does obviously have dual citizenship) Thai authorities see your name in her Birth certificate and tell her to get the citizenship of her dad.

I see the only chance for you daughter to be eligible for Thai citizenship if your GF becomes Thai.

Your GF works in Thailand, can't she just go the regular naturalization way?

 

 

 

Edit:

From Wikipedia: Thailand operated a system of pure jus soli prior to 1972, but afterwards due to illegal immigration from Burma the Nationality Act was amended to require that both parents be legally resident and domiciled in Thailand for at least five years in order for their child to be granted Thai citizenship at birth.

 

I've never heard that somebody did this, but who knows.... So if you happen to live in Thailand since 5 years this would be another way.

29 minutes ago, jackdd said:

 

Look, I understand very well the distinction between jus soli and jus sanguinis, and I understand that Thailand operates (after a more recent amendment to the law) on a jus sanguinis basis re: citizenship, as do a number of other counties. You're incorrect in your above supposition, my gf's parents are both of ethnic minority background. Father is Mon (I imagine he was born in Burma, but is not technically Burmese - not a Burmese citizen) and her mother was Yuan - again NOT Burmese, and I don't think she was born in Burma either, also never held a passport. Neither have birth certs. and were both born 70 years ago, and probably not in a hospital where their births were registered. There are many 1000s of people over here in the same boat. To my knowledge, the family lived in Kbrui, Thailand in the late 70s and moved back to Burma where the extended family had land/smallholdings. This area was rife with violent skirmishes and the Thai military / government were enforcing deportation / forced migration of ethnic Burmese/minority groups back into Burma. My gf was born in Burma in 1981 and was, again, not born in a hospital and thus her birth was not registered  by the state or by the family thereafter. This part of the world is a lot more lawless and lacking in proper clerical infrastructure, it's nothing like it is in the West - especially 35+ yrs ago. I know the family were granted residence in Thailand and were afforded the ability to own land and in time were made 'permanent residents' with diminished rights of travel / ownership of property and right to work. They have remained in Kburi ever since and don't consider themselves Burmese - none of them have a passport, besides my missus and her younger brother who is ironically - Thai, ID card and all! I think he is because he was born in Thailand at a time when they were naturalising the children of domiciled migrants. Because my gf was not born here at roughly the same time, it means she has not been able to acquire Thai citizenship, nor have her elder siblings who were also born outside of TH. In the UK, they would ALL have been naturalised or deported at this point. Simple as that. It's the state of limbo that they (and now we through extraction) are in that is most aggravating. It is possible that my gf could be naturalised, this is yet another thing I will have to look into with the correct agencies. Still, the fact that our daughter was born here and has lived all 5 and half years of her life here / is schooled here and has never left the country - and is the child of someone with permanent residency - if not full citizenship, should to a fair and balanced system mean that she is entitled to citizenship if not now, then at least down the line. As I have said earlier, this is what would happen in my own country. A massive bureaucratic/litigious headache awaits us, of that I'm sure.

 

BTW I haven't facilitated the British passport for our daughter yet, so she isn't technically of dual nationality. She doesn't have a Burmese of British passport, but is of course entitled to both.

Edited April 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[sanemax]

As your Child was born in Thailand and goes to School here , she should be able to get Thai I.D. on completion of schooling .

   Getting her a U.K PP now will make her ineligible to receive Thai I.D. and if you do get a UK PP and take her to the UK , she would have to come back on a Thai visa and you would have to keep that up to date , or she will go on overstay

   

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

18 minutes ago, sanemax said:

As your Child was born in Thailand and goes to School here , she should be able to get Thai I.D. on completion of schooling .

   Getting her a U.K PP now will make her ineligible to receive Thai I.D. and if you do get a UK PP and take her to the UK , she would have to come back on a Thai visa and you would have to keep that up to date , or she will go on overstay

   

You may well be right, but that wouldn't be much use as it means she wouldn't be able to travel outside of the country and would effectively be on lock-down until she is what? 16? Must be an alternative available that would be more advantageous, even if it meant her getting both a British and Burmese passport and living under the same set of rules as her mother does here. She was able to complete her schooling and own land here (in Kburi) where she and her family have houses and a smallholding - of their own construction. I'm thinking perhaps naturalisation of my missus would be the best avenue to explore and although I very much appreciate people's advice and constructive comments here, I will seek government / UNHCF advisement to clarify what our options are and what would make the most sense for us to do in our rather unusual situation.

Edited April 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[jvs]

 

12 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

You may well be right, but that wouldn't be much use as it means she wouldn't be able to travel outside of the country and would effectively be on lock-down until she is what? 16? Must be an alternative available that would be more advantageous, even if it meant her getting both a British and Burmese passport and living under the same set of rules as her mother does here. She was able to complete her schooling and own land here (in Kburi) where she and her family have houses and a smallholding - of their own construction. I'm thinking perhaps naturalisation of my missus would be the best avenue to explore and although I very much appreciate people's advice and constructive comments here, I will seek government / UNHCF advisement to clarify what our options are and what would make the most sense for us to do in our rather unusual situation.

Is your name on the birth certificate?If so the Thai government may tell you the child is British and there fore there is no need for them to consider Thai id.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

8 minutes ago, jvs said:

 

Is your name on the birth certificate?If so the Thai government may tell you the child is British and there fore there is no need for them to consider Thai id.

My name is there yes, which will facilitate the British passport, which is just as if not more important ultimately, but this is also why I would like to be able to naturalise my gf, so that our daughter is entitled to Thai citizenship under the law through jus sanguinis. The fact that my gf is a 'permanent resident' of Thailand should however, to my mind, enable her to claim Thai citizenship - in conjunction with the fact that she was born and has lived here all her life - as it would do in the UK for example. I will probably update this thread when an outcome has been reached.

Edited April 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[LukKrueng]

5 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

I don't see that I am confusing anything mate. The holding of a passport or national identification card follows if you ARE a citizen of a country. I know you aren't compelled to have one if you don't want one (re: a passport), but the two are inextricably linked, so this is a moot point. The passport is what would be most important for us anyway, as we would of course need it to travel on and to prove that our daughter is a Thai national, thus underscoring my point. 

no Thai child under 6 or 7 (can't remember the exact age) can get an id card, and every Thai person must have one at age 15. For a child under 15 there is no link between a passport and an id card.

moreover, your child is NOT a Thai national because neither her father nor her mother are Thai nationals according to your posts. Thai citizenship is not automatically granted to every baby born on Thailand

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

20 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

no Thai child under 6 or 7 (can't remember the exact age) can get an id card, and every Thai person must have one at age 15. For a child under 15 there is no link between a passport and an id card.

moreover, your child is NOT a Thai national because neither her father nor her mother are Thai nationals according to your posts. Thai citizenship is not automatically granted to every baby born on Thailand

I'm not saying there is a link between an ID card and a passport, as I've recently learnt that you can acquire a passport before the ID is ever granted. There is however a link between holding an ID and/or passport and one's nationality - how else do you identify your nationality internationally ?. That was my point, that I was making in response to your earlier comment. Again, I'm FULLY AWARE that my daughter is NOT a Thai national at this point and will have significant difficulty becoming one, I don't need you or anyone else to keep pointing that out! What's the need to do so? Nothing better to do with your time? I am also painfully aware that TH no longer operates under the jus soli framework re: citizenship, so you aren't telling me anything I don't already know! What I'm debating and investigating is whether or not she will be able to obtain Thai nationality either through the virtue that her mother is a 'permanent resident' in Thailand or if it would become possible IF my missus were able to be naturalsied. If you have nothing constructive to contribute, don't <deleted> comment! 

Edited April 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

I'm not saying there is a link between an ID card and a passport, as I've recently learnt that you can acquire a passport before the ID is ever granted. There is however a link between holding an ID and/or passport and one's nationality - how else do you identify your nationality internationally ?. That was my point, that I was making in response to your earlier comment. Again, I'm FULLY AWARE that my daughter is NOT a Thai national at this point and will have significant difficulty becoming one, I don't need you or anyone else to keep pointing that out! What's the need to do so? Nothing better to do with your time? I am also painfully aware that TH no longer operates under the jus soli framework re: citizenship, so you aren't telling me anything I don't already know! What I'm debating and investigating is whether or not she will be able to obtain Thai nationality either through the virtue that her mother is a 'permanent resident' in Thailand or if it would become possible IF my missus were able to be naturalsied. If you have nothing constructive to contribute, don't <deleted> comment! 

I don't know why I even bother replying your abusive reply, but do read AGAIN my first reply to you. I mentioned there I have heard from one (unconfirmed) source only that a child of a permanent resident can apply for citizenship once they are 18 years of age.

[TerryLH]

5 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

BTW I haven't facilitated the British passport for our daughter yet, so she isn't technically of dual nationality. She doesn't have a Burmese of British passport, but is of course entitled to both.

Dual Nationality isn't something that is only awarded because of passports, so technically you are wrong with that statement.

 

4 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

The fact that my gf is a 'permanent resident' of Thailand should however, to my mind, enable her to claim Thai citizenship - in conjunction with the fact that she was born and has lived here all her life -

 

5 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

My gf was born in Burma in 1981 and was, again, not born in a hospital and thus her birth was not registered  by the state or by the family thereafter.

Which is it?  She can't have been born in both countries, could she?

 

Perhaps you should spend your time contacting appropriate agencies etc instead of arguing with people here. It doesn't sound like you're going to get the answer you want in this topic.

 

Good luck.

Terry

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

1 hour ago, TerryLH said:

Dual Nationality isn't something that is only awarded because of passports, so technically you are wrong with that statement.

 

 

Which is it?  She can't have been born in both countries, could she?

 

Perhaps you should spend your time contacting appropriate agencies etc instead of arguing with people here. It doesn't sound like you're going to get the answer you want in this topic.

 

Good luck.

Terry

Thanks Terry.

Maybe I have been unclear. She is a permanent resident of Thailand, as are her family, but she is not a Thai citizen - she doesn't have the same rights as an ID card carrying Thai national, but she is allowed to remain in the country and owns land with property on it in Kburi. She was in fact born in Burma in 1981 - but the birth was not registered at the time, as she was born at home. I don't know if her family later registered it or not, but she was able to get a Burmese passport 3 years back, so my thinking is they probably did do at a later date. Moreover, I'm only taking exception to people who keep reiterating the same point in what comes across as some kind of cynical and sour attempt to discourage me. As if I'm unaware of the fact that my daughter is not a Thai national, and on the face of it at least is not directly entitled, via jus sanguinis at least, to Thai nationality. Why would I start the thread if I weren't already aware of this fact? That is what aggravates me, as it is unnecessary and seems to be done out of spite or perhaps boredom, either way I don't care, it's not helpful.

 

I am of course tackling this issue already, IF you read the above statements and my initial post you would know that I'm seeking legal advice, which has thus far not been particularly helpful. Once my gf is back in town next week I will enlist her help to contact the MoI and her local government via the phone if possible, while I will contact the UNHCF and continuing to update my legal adviser. 

 

I appreciate the helpful information and advice from some members here, really, it's been insightful. For those of you who have offered such advice - my sincere thanks. 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[jimster]

On 4/19/2018 at 3:58 PM, LukKrueng said:

I don't know why I even bother replying your abusive reply, but do read AGAIN my first reply to you. I mentioned there I have heard from one (unconfirmed) source only that a child of a permanent resident can apply for citizenship once they are 18 years of age.

According to a private Thai hospital, if BOTH the mother and father possess a pink alien ID card, the child is automatically conferred Thai citizenship. Strangely, this notice, mentioned on the instructions of how to apply for a birth certificate is only on the Thai version. On the English version, it does not mention the possibility of two foreign parents, both with pink ID cards being able to apply for Thai citizenship for their child.

 

Now it could be that it's not mentioned in the English version because the hospital (and the authorities) assume the only foreigners likely to possess a pink ID card are low skilled workers on L-A visas from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia (many of whom speak Thai, though they can't necessarily read it) and thus westerners and other third country foreigners are ineligible, therefore there is no need to mention this. Or it was an oversight. It could also be that this is a new law, only introduced under the current government.

 

Personally it's not relevant to me as I am married to a Thai national and thus our children have automatically had Thai nationality conferred onto them. I would find it interesting if the government nevertheless decided (if this turns out to be the case) to be more inclusive towards foreigners from neighboring countries who work in Thailand under L-A labor visas who decide to have children in Thailand by granting them citizenship. I understand some efforts have been made to grant citizenship to stateless children born in Thailand who have studied for a certain number of years at a Thai government school, perhaps this is the next step.