Nine dead, 16 hurt by van ploughing over Toronto sidewalk - police

[riclag]

12 hours ago, DM07 said:

Oh...so now it is the Muslims fault and responsibility, even if there are no Muslims involved?

That is some really @#$%!^ up logic!

I'm with you on this. #73 post was wrong (Nausea) to make that assumption.

[Mac98]

On 4/24/2018 at 9:37 AM, Watchful said:

 

Um, did you see the video of the cop and suspect?  If I was the cop and the dude was pointing at me, I would have shot him.  NOT to kill, but to put him down. The cop could have become the 11th victim!

 

The other really strange thing was asking for information, but not identifying the suspect's name!  What was the point of that?

 

I mean are they asking for people to phone in any rumors they hear?

Information: Did anyone exit the van before the incident began? Was anything seen, other than a random attack, that could have set off the attack at that location? Are there other recordings of the incident? Any possible conspirators or potential helpers in the area, such as a getaway driver that fled the scene?

[Berkshire]

11 hours ago, mrdome said:

Well, you learn something new everyday, as already stated by ChomperHiggins, we have a new kind of terrorist threat: Men who can't get laid and blame others for it - Yikes - meet the incels (involuntarily celibates), most of them just keyboard warriors but now two of them have killed in retaliation:

 

http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2018/04/24/incels-hail-toronto-van-driver-who-killed-10-as-a-new-elliot-rodger-talk-of-future-acid-attacks-and-mass-rapes/

 

This is all completely new (and sickening) to me.

Before this incident, I'd never heard of this "incel" group.  I know that there are quite a lot of men in the west who simply aren't getting laid and consequently have sexual frustrations.  Most will not act out in such a violent way.  But imagine if this becomes contagious, frustrated men acting out in copycat fashion.  It doesn't have to be by van or motor vehicle, but by guns and other ways.  This could become a real problem.  Which brings me to Thailand.  How about this new marketing slogan:  "Come to Pattaya, get laid, save lives."  

 

Disclaimer: Just trying to bring a little humor to this depressing topic.   

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

Before this incident, I'd never heard of this "incel" group.  I know that there are quite a lot of men in the west who simply aren't getting laid and consequently have sexual frustrations.  Most will not act out in such a violent way.  But imagine if this becomes contagious, frustrated men acting out in copycat fashion.  It doesn't have to be by van or motor vehicle, but by guns and other ways.  This could become a real problem.  Which brings me to Thailand.  How about this new marketing slogan:  "Come to Pattaya, get laid, save lives."  

 

Disclaimer: Just trying to bring a little humor to this depressing topic.   

A picture is emerging (reported in Washington Post) that the killer was specifically targeting women i.e. femicide. Femicide is more common in macho societies such as in South America. Can't remember the detail but I recall there was a mass murder of women by a white guy - separated the men and shot dead the women.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femicide

[CharlesSwann]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

A picture is emerging (reported in Washington Post) that the killer was specifically targeting women i.e. femicide. Femicide is more common in macho societies such as in South America. Can't remember the detail but I recall there was a mass murder of women by a white guy - separated the men and shot dead the women.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femicide

I have a different theory.

 

'Incel' is simply misogyny, as commonly found in gay males who neither accept nor probably understand their sexual inversion (cinema and literature is rife with the phenomenon). Couple that with young people's sense of self-righteous victimhood today and this is the result. Look at pictures of Elliot Rodger - the high priest of incels. Don't tell me he isn't gay.

 

Macho men don't kill women because they are women - otherwise there would general carnage. For one thing, it's against their sense of machismo. Effete society seems to be trying to invent a new kind of anti-male scenario here. I don't buy it. Sure, there are always psychopaths, but that's different.

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, CharlesSwann said:

I have a different theory.

 

'Incel' is simply misogyny, as commonly found in gay males who neither accept nor probably understand their sexual inversion (cinema and literature is rife with the phenomenon). Couple that with young people's sense of self-righteous victimhood today and this is the result. Look at pictures of Elliot Rodger - the high priest of incels. Don't tell me he isn't gay.

 

Macho men don't kill women because they are women - otherwise there would general carnage. For one thing, it's against their sense of machismo. Effete society seems to be trying to invent a new kind of anti-male scenario here. I don't buy it. Sure, there are always psychopaths, but that's different.

Sourced from far right ideology? Did you read the femicide link? Seems to me your 'theory' is rubbish.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

So because he's ethnically East Indian he's a murderer? Do all fatalities resulting from 2 vehicle collisions qualify as murder? Or do you think it's only a crime  when the victims are white and the driver is not? 

 A few years ago in South London a four vehicle road traffic collision resulted in the death of a white pedestrian.

 

Three of the drivers involved were white, the fourth a Muslim of Pakistani origin. All four drivers were arrested and questioned, but all four released without charge.

 

However, people of the same mindset as @taipan ignored the involvement of the three white drivers and concentrated on the Muslim Pakistani one, calling this incident an Islamist terrorist attack! This accusation even appeared as a fact on various websites such as Pamela Geller and Gatestone!

 

 

[CharlesSwann]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Sourced from far right ideology? Seems to me your 'theory' is rubbish.

So did you check the pics of Elliot Rodger? You're saying you don't think he's gay?

 

Note that I didn't say *all* gays display misogyny, only that it is a common trait. One can easily supply a very long list of examples to support this.

[darksidedog]

A couple of offensive Troll posts have been removed, along with a bunch of replies.

[watcharacters]

On 4/24/2018 at 11:21 AM, lust said:

Just a little bit of cultural enrichment, hey Trudeau? 

 

I gather you don't like Trudeau but making light of an event that  produced so many deaths and injuries seems  wrong to me.

[bristolboy]

23 minutes ago, CharlesSwann said:

I have a different theory.

 

'Incel' is simply misogyny, as commonly found in gay males who neither accept nor probably understand their sexual inversion (cinema and literature is rife with the phenomenon). Couple that with young people's sense of self-righteous victimhood today and this is the result. Look at pictures of Elliot Rodger - the high priest of incels. Don't tell me he isn't gay.

 

Macho men don't kill women because they are women - otherwise there would general carnage. For one thing, it's against their sense of machismo. Effete society seems to be trying to invent a new kind of anti-male scenario here. I don't buy it. Sure, there are always psychopaths, but that's different.

Because there's such a low incidence of male violence against women in societies where machismo is the norm? 

You can spin all the tendentious theories you like, but reality is contradicting you at every turn.

[GroveHillWanderer]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Dude, you totally misread my POV. I never said this attack was Islamist. I merely stated the obvious reality -- because these kinds of vehicle mass murders have been associated with Islamist terrorism (but not always) BEFORE any evidence actually exists, people ARE going to strongly suspect Islamist motives. You can't stop them. They just will.  I have nothing to apologize for in saying the way it is in the world. That is an objective reality.  

I don't agree. Where is your evidence that people in general are going to strongly suspect something without a single shred of evidence? Maybe some would but the friends and acquaintances that I spoke to about this made no such assumptions. As soon as I heard about this, while it certainly crossed my mind that Islamic terrorism would be one of the possibilities, I didn't 'strongly suspect' it.

[CharlesSwann]

35 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Because there's such a low incidence of male violence against women in societies where machismo is the norm? 

You can spin all the tendentious theories you like, but reality is contradicting you at every turn.

We're not talking about domestic violence, but homicidal rampage.

We know macho men are hamfisted fools, but they are not out to kill women because they are women.

We are talking particularly about the incel phenomenon, as inspired by Elliot Rodger. I'm still waiting for someone to try to deny that he's gay.

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I don't agree. Where is your evidence that people in general are going to strongly suspect something without a single shred of evidence? Maybe some would but the friends and acquaintances that I spoke to about this made no such assumptions. As soon as I heard about this, while it certainly crossed my mind that Islamic terrorism would be one of the possibilities, I didn't 'strongly suspect' it.

You're splitting hairs. It DOES come into most people's minds BECAUSE that method of mass murder has been associated with Islamist terrorism. That's not Islamophobia, that's common sense. Obviously it would be stupid to definitively conclude it's about that unless actual evidence shows it.

 

Here is another real life common sense example. Recently an important Hamas missile developer was assassinated in Malaysia. Most people would and do think that Israel is likely behind that because of the obvious MOTIVATION and historical precedent of such actions. I do too and I support Israel. Now we don't KNOW for sure that it is at this point and perhaps we never will. Considering that a strong possibility just makes sense, unless and until evidence comes forward showing something else.

 

Cheers. 

[simple1]

27 minutes ago, CharlesSwann said:

<snip>

We are talking particularly about the incel phenomenon, as inspired by Elliot Rodger. I'm still waiting for someone to try to deny that he's gay.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/ucsb-shooting-forum-associated-with-elliot-rodger-reacts-2014-5

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mysteries-love/201406/elliot-rodger-s-narcissism

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/fox-news-apology-elliot-rodger-homosexual-impulses_n_5397527

[Expatthailover]

Very very sad for the deceased and those they leave behind.

Canada is such a nice country with great people.

 

[pegman]

4 hours ago, Expatthailover said:

Very very sad for the deceased and those they leave behind.

Canada is such a nice country with great people.

 

Tks for the kind words about my country. It's the senselessness of it that is hard to come to grips with. We had a very simular thing happen in 1989. Young guy with a number of the same characteristics as this guy shoot dead 14 women at a school in Montreal. Both were hate crimes. Both were likely unpreventable. 

[CharlesSwann]

On 26/04/2018 at 2:48 PM, simple1 said:

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/ucsb-shooting-forum-associated-with-elliot-rodger-reacts-2014-5

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mysteries-love/201406/elliot-rodger-s-narcissism

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/fox-news-apology-elliot-rodger-homosexual-impulses_n_5397527

 

You're only proving my point. The video on that psychologytoday website is all the evidence that anyone with an ounce of understanding of human nature needs to know that that guy is gay. Hilarious the elaborate web the psychologist had to weave to avoid blaming homosexuality. But course, with today's rainbow hysteria, it's not politically correct to say or even imply anything negative about gays.

 

There's nothing new about this phenomenon - it goes back to Emperor Nero. Society needs to understand this, or at least watch out, because psychologically-frustrated people can be embittered and dangerous.

[mikebike]

11 minutes ago, CharlesSwann said:

You're only proving my point. The video on that psychologytoday website is all the evidence that anyone with an ounce of understanding of human nature needs to know that that guy is gay. Hilarious the elaborate web the psychologist had to weave to avoid blaming homosexuality. But course, with today's rainbow hysteria, it's not politically correct to say or even imply anything negative about gays.

That's your take-away from the links? A reinforcement of your totally unfounded guess that Rodger is gay?

 

Would you entertain any circumstance where a deranged man has a clinically narcissistic hatred of women and actually is hetro?

[7by7]

On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 8:33 AM, Jingthing said:

You're splitting hairs. It DOES come into most people's minds BECAUSE that method of mass murder has been associated with Islamist terrorism. That's not Islamophobia, that's common sense.

Yes, when I first heard reports of this, and similar incidents, that it may be an Islamist terrorist attack did cross my mind. What also crossed my mind was that it was the sort of incident it actually was. I also thought it could be a drunk driver who lost control, a catastrophic vehicular failure of some kind or simply a driver using their phone or not paying attention for some other reason. Even the smallest amount of research will show you that there are, sadly, far more pedestrians killed each year in the latter three types of incident than the former two.

 

You may say that those types of incidents don't kill and injure as many as a deliberate attack; and usually you'd be right, but not always.

 

On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 8:33 AM, Jingthing said:

Obviously it would be stupid to definitively conclude it's about that unless actual evidence shows it.

But certain elements, unfortunately well represented amongst members here, always immediately assume such incidents are Islamist terrorism rather than waiting for the actual facts. Furthermore, they actually accuse the police and others of attempting to hide that the incident is Islamist terrorism merely because the identity of the attacker(s) is not immediately released!

 

As this, and many other incidents, prove; these ignorant people are usually wrong in their assumption. Do they come back and admit their error? No, they merely repeat it again and again every time such a tragic incident occurs. That they are correct maybe 25% of the time is no excuse for that.

[mikebike]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Yes, when I first heard reports of this, and similar incidents, that it may be an Islamist terrorist attack did cross my mind. What also crossed my mind was that it was the sort of incident it actually was. I also thought it could be a drunk driver who lost control, a catastrophic vehicular failure of some kind or simply a driver using their phone or not paying attention for some other reason. Even the smallest amount of research will show you that there are, sadly, far more pedestrians killed each year in the latter three types of incident than the former two.

 

You may say that those types of incidents don't kill and injure as many as a deliberate attack; and usually you'd be right, but not always.

 

But certain elements, unfortunately well represented amongst members here, always immediately assume such incidents are Islamist terrorism rather than waiting for the actual facts. Furthermore, they actually accuse the police and others of attempting to hide that the incident is Islamist terrorism merely because the identity of the attacker(s) is not immediately released!

 

As this, and many other incidents, prove; these ignorant people are usually wrong in their assumption. Do they come back and admit their error? No, they merely repeat it again and again every time such a tragic incident occurs. That they are correct maybe 25% of the time is no excuse for that.

And really didn't have to wait long in this case. CBC (Canadian national broadcaster) was on to the incel thing within 24hrs.

[CharlesSwann]

4 hours ago, mikebike said:

That's your take-away from the links? A reinforcement of your totally unfounded guess that Rodger is gay?

 

Would you entertain any circumstance where a deranged man has a clinically narcissistic hatred of women and actually is hetro?

I trust my own observation rather than the PC narrative.

 

Someone above thought this was all about brute machismo. Now it's about hetero narcissists? Get your stories straight. Neither make sense. From my observation, macho men are neither narcissistic nor mysogynist, whereas gays, from my observation, are often narcissists and often misogynist. Sorry for that home truth.

 

Occam's razor applies. The guy is gay but can't accept it, gets frustrated, takes it out on the cause of his frustration.

 

Carry on burying your head in the sand.

[mikebike]

9 minutes ago, CharlesSwann said:

I trust my own observation rather than the PC narrative.

 

Someone above thought this was all about brute machismo. Now it's about hetero narcissists? Get your stories straight. Neither make sense. From my observation, macho men are neither narcissistic nor mysogynist, whereas gays, from my observation, are often narcissists and often misogynist. Sorry for that home truth.

 

Occam's razor applies. The guy is gay but can't accept it, gets frustrated, takes it out on the cause of his frustration.

 

Carry on burying your head in the sand.

Apparently your skills of observation are severely lacking. "The guy" is a heterosexual involuntary celebate. 

 

He wants GIRLS but is incapable of being a freaking normal human so no western woman wants him. Half the expats living here were in the same boat. Is this really all that hard for you to digest? Hitting too close to home?

 

All you got is, "I think he is gay therefore it is fact".

[Jingthing]

The guy definitely was NOT gay (at least based on that video) but he was definitely very messed up in the head. He was extremely creepy. I am surprised that he couldn't pull some girls just based on his looks (if he was gay he would have no problem getting lots of sex of course) but I reckon the level of his creepiness was off the charts. 

 

Keeping it real, I couldn't bring myself to watch the entire video. He's just too nauseating. 

 

I have met misogynist straight men and gay men as well. In my experience most gay men value women as friends but are sexually indifferent to them (which angers some women). I think it's a myth that men become gay because they hate women. Nope -- it's because they love men. 

[partington]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The guy definitely was NOT gay (at least based on that video) but he was definitely very messed up in the head. He was extremely creepy. I am surprised that he couldn't pull some girls just based on his looks (if he was gay he would have no problem getting lots of sex of course) but I reckon the level of his creepiness was off the charts. 

 

Keeping it real, I couldn't bring myself to watch the entire video. He's just too nauseating. 

 

I have met misogynist straight men and gay men as well. In my experience most gay men value women as friends but are sexually indifferent to them (which angers some women). I think it's a myth that men become gay because they hate women. Nope -- it's because they love men. 

I utterly agree with this. Most of the men I met in Thailand who I would consider misogynists were completely heterosexual whoremongers, who would go on and on about western women not being deferential enough to them, and saying stuff like "haha you don't pay hookers for the sex, you pay them to go away afterwards hahahah".

 

Classic misogyny is to use women for sex while not liking to talk to women much. You read it all the time in posts here too.