Nine dead, 16 hurt by van ploughing over Toronto sidewalk - police

[pegman]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

What is perfectly reasonable is to wait for information from the police and/or other authorities rather than jumping to false conclusions based upon one's prejudices.

 

That the police prefer to establish facts rather than release unfounded speculations to the media is anathema to some people, true; but not to reasonable ones.

 

That the police prefer to confirm a suspects identity before releasing it is anathema to some people, true; but not to reasonable ones.

 

That the assumption of innocence means that a suspect's identity wont usually be released by the police (unless required to be in order to assist in the suspect's location and apprehension) is anathema to some people, true; but not to reasonable ones.

The POS who first spread that this was terror related was former NYC Police commissioner Bill Bratton who stated on MSNBC that his sources say Alek Minassian, 25, who plowed a van into a crowd of pedestrians in  Toronto was KNOWN TO POLICE, and they now consider it a terrorist attack.

 

Of course now we know that was TOTAL B.S. Minassian had not in fact ever had contract with police. Americans being Americans once again.

[simple1]

11 hours ago, overherebc said:

When questioning it should be remembered that black is negative red is positive and some water will give a better contact.

Think you're clever?

[jerojero]

Sometimes I wish I was Canadian. The suspect was purposely trying to get shot (death by cop). Looks like a Glock in the video, maybe not to the firrst reponders.
Excellent policing and stunning bravery by the Mounties. US cops shoot people all the time for far less threat, the guy already committed multiple homicide.

Not Mounties. They are Canada's National police force. Most Canadian cities have their own police forces, as this is the case: Toronto Police force.

[jerojero]

Not a Mountie. Stupid City Cop should have shot.

Are you American? Yeehaw! Shoot first ask questions later. This Toronto Police officer should be commended for taking a murderer into custody unharmed. Ultimate professional! Let the perp face justice of the legal system and enjoy his next 60 years in prison!

[jerojero]

A muslim loving Prime Minister and his Somali Head of Immigration for Canada.

Obviously you know nothing of Canada and its people. Nor it's culture or Leaders. Your rant words puts your racism on record my friend.

[neeray]

4 minutes ago, jerojero said:

20 hours ago, taipan1949 said:

Not a Mountie. Stupid City Cop should have shot.

Are you American? Yeehaw! Shoot first ask questions later. This Toronto Police officer should be commended for taking a murderer into custody unharmed. Ultimate professional! Let the perp face justice of the legal system and enjoy his next 60 years in prison!

Agreed, Officer Ken Lam is the ultimate professional. A sharp contrast to "take downs" in other countries.

[jerojero]

I remember when Canada used to be a respected country. 
 
Welcome to Canada 2.0. Cuckanada. Where isis members are put before their own veterans and senior citizens. 

What a b.s comment. What shred of proof might you have for anything remotely related to any kind of Canadian government or citizens support for Isis. Utter b.s

[neeray]

5 minutes ago, jerojero said:

18 hours ago, lust said:

I remember when Canada used to be a respected country. 
 
Welcome to Canada 2.0. Cuckanada. Where isis members are put before their own veterans and senior citizens. 

What a b.s comment. What shred of proof might you have for anything remotely related to any kind of Canadian government or citizens support for Isis. Utter b.s

He/she is talking for talking, or should I say pounding for pounding (on his/her keyboard). We are a multi cultural country for sure (As white, I am now in the visible minority) but certainly not sympathetic to ISIS. "Canada 2.0, Cuckanada" ...... I've never heard of either one. Talk about "utter b.s."

[simple1]

17 minutes ago, neeray said:

He/she is talking for talking, or should I say pounding for pounding (on his/her keyboard). We are a multi cultural country for sure (As white, I am now in the visible minority) but certainly not sympathetic to ISIS. "Canada 2.0, Cuckanada" ...... I've never heard of either one. Talk about "utter b.s."

You sure? Ethnic origin facts for Canadian demographics...

 

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/demo26a-eng.htm

[neeray]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

You sure? Ethnic origin facts for Canadian demographics...

 

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/demo26a-eng.htm

Yes, I am very, very sure. This was a government fact released quite some years ago, maybe as many as 5 or 10 years ago. So even greater spread now.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, neeray said:

Yes, I am very, very sure. This was a government fact released quite some years ago, maybe as many as 5 or 10 years ago. So even greater spread now.

Apologies, more recent figures from 2016 census...

 

32.3% of Canadians considered their ethnic origin to be Canadian. Other major groups recorded were English (18.3%), Scottish (13.9%), French (13.6%), Irish (13.4%), German (9.6%) and Chinese (5.1%). 

 

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/canada-population/

[stevenl]

On 4/24/2018 at 6:27 AM, geriatrickid said:

The chap appears meet some of the criteria for mental illness;

- 7 years as a student at a community college

- Software applications developer 

- when he finally crashes out, he behaves erratically waving an object at a police officer demanding that  the police officer shoot him in the head, aka "Suicide by cop"

- Known to police.

 

There is a G7 Foreign Ministers meeting going on in Toronto.

I will be surprised if he is a jihadist. He's of Armenian heritage, and likely to be Armenian Apostolic Christian if anything.  I am expecting that he will be  another nutter answering the voices in his head. 

He also meets 2 other requirements for mental illness: he is white;

he is non islamist.

[DM07]

11 hours ago, nausea said:

I don't think the guy would have done this without the Islamic example. Like cars ploughing into people wasn't a big problem 10 years ago. Now, it's a big problem, bigger than the gun debate in the US. You can solve that (the gun debate) by legislation, this you can't solve.

Oh...so now it is the Muslims fault and responsibility, even if there are no Muslims involved?

That is some really @#$%!^ up logic!

[pegman]

3 hours ago, neeray said:

He/she is talking for talking, or should I say pounding for pounding (on his/her keyboard). We are a multi cultural country for sure (As white, I am now in the visible minority) but certainly not sympathetic to ISIS. "Canada 2.0, Cuckanada" ...... I've never heard of either one. Talk about "utter b.s."

You may be right in Toronto but Canada is still made up of 75% Euro ethnicities https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada

[neeray]

1 minute ago, pegman said:

You may be right in Toronto but Canada is still made up of 75% Euro ethnicities https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada

You are correct. Toronto and Vancouver are where the non-white dominate. In checking my facts, I notice that in a couple decades, it is predicted that 7 out of 10 will be non-white. Our immigration policy is in excess of 300,000 annually and growing.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, neeray said:

You are correct. Toronto and Vancouver are where the non-white dominate. In checking my facts, I notice that in a couple decades, it is predicted that 7 out of 10 will be non-white. Our immigration policy is in excess of 300,000 annually and growing.

Ethnic population forecast by 2036

 

https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/91-551-x/2017001/tbl/tbl_05-eng.htm

[Jingthing]

14 hours ago, nausea said:

I don't think the guy would have done this without the Islamic example. Like cars ploughing into people wasn't a big problem 10 years ago. Now, it's a big problem, bigger than the gun debate in the US. You can solve that (the gun debate) by legislation, this you can't solve.

Maybe not but the cat's out of the bag. You can kill large numbers of people by driving at high speeds on crowded walkways? Who knew? Well anyone could have known if they thought about it. The sad reality is that over time cities are probably going to need to spend a lot on securing walkways. 

[lust]

7 hours ago, jerojero said:

On 4/24/2018 at 11:20 AM, lust said:

I remember when Canada used to be a respected country. 
 
Welcome to Canada 2.0. Cuckanada. Where isis members are put before their own veterans and senior citizens. 

What a b.s comment. What shred of proof might you have for anything remotely related to any kind of Canadian government or citizens support for Isis. Utter b.s

I encourage you to educate yourself. 

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/plan-to-deal-with-returning-isis-fighters-sparks-fiery-exchange-between-scheer-pm-1.3698183

[7by7]

3 hours ago, neeray said:

You are correct. Toronto and Vancouver are where the non-white dominate. In checking my facts, I notice that in a couple decades, it is predicted that 7 out of 10 will be non-white. Our immigration policy is in excess of 300,000 annually and growing.

 What you choose to forget is that prior to the 15th century the population of Canada, indeed the whole of the Americas, was 100% non white!

 

Ethnic Europeans in the Americas are all either immigrants or the descendants of immigrants.

 

The perpetrator of this horrific crime is of Armenian ethnicity. Armenia is in Asia, just. Armenia is one of the earliest Christian civilisations, the Armenian church being established in the 4th century.

 

Place an ethnic Armenian among a group of ethnic southern Europeans, e.g. Spanish, Italian or Greek, and I doubt that you would be able to pick him out.

 

But maybe you consider dark skinned southern Europeans to also be non white? Perhaps your ideal is tall, blond and blue eyed?

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, lust said:

I encourage you to educate yourself. 

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/plan-to-deal-with-returning-isis-fighters-sparks-fiery-exchange-between-scheer-pm-1.3698183

Do you also have a link that supports the claim 'the Canadian government is supporting ISIS'? Because your link doesn't.

[Berkshire]

4 hours ago, neeray said:

You are correct. Toronto and Vancouver are where the non-white dominate. In checking my facts, I notice that in a couple decades, it is predicted that 7 out of 10 will be non-white. Our immigration policy is in excess of 300,000 annually and growing.

What does it matter, so long as all are Canadian. 

[bristolboy]

8 hours ago, simple1 said:

Apologies, more recent figures from 2016 census...

 

32.3% of Canadians considered their ethnic origin to be Canadian. Other major groups recorded were English (18.3%), Scottish (13.9%), French (13.6%), Irish (13.4%), German (9.6%) and Chinese (5.1%). 

 

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/canada-population/

 

5 hours ago, neeray said:

You are correct. Toronto and Vancouver are where the non-white dominate. In checking my facts, I notice that in a couple decades, it is predicted that 7 out of 10 will be non-white. Our immigration policy is in excess of 300,000 annually and growing.

No, it is not predicted that 7 out of 10 will be non-white:

Visible minorities may comprise one-third of Canadians by 2036

 Increasingly, the face of the average Canadian is anything but average.

There was plenty of diversity on display in Wednesday’s deposit of Statistics Canada census data, including 250 different ethnic origins across the country, and hints of more to come: visible minorities could comprise fully one-third of Canadians by 2036 as immigration drives population growth not just in the cities, but across the country.

The release marks just the latest – and second-to-last – in a year-long series of statistical snapshots of the Canadian condition, one that also heralded the return of data from the much-maligned long-form census for the first time in a decade.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/visible-minorities-may-comprise-one-third-of-canadians-by-2036/

 

And it should also be noted that the majority of immigrants are economic immigrants who will immediately benefit the Canadian economy. 

In 2016, Canada had 1,212,075 new immigrants who had permanently settled in Canada from 2011 to 2016. These recent immigrants represented 3.5% of Canada's total population in 2016.

The majority (60.3%) of these new immigrants were admitted under the economic category, 26.8% were admitted under the family class to join family already in the country, and 11.6% were admitted to Canada as refugees.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/171025/dq171025b-eng.htm

 

Canada's population is aging and it needs young workers to replace retirees.

[Chomper Higgot]

On 24 April 2018 at 4:22 AM, Jingthing said:

They're calling it deliberate.

Motive not yet determined.

People will naturally assume Islamist terrorism but too early to say for sure 

That's the problem with assumption - No links to Islam terrorism.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

On 24 April 2018 at 11:03 AM, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

Not a terrorist. CBC traces his history, which seems to have led to his flipping after being rejected by the ladies. 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-van-attack-driver-profile-alek-minassian-1.4632435

A shared history with many a farang who washes up in Thailand. 

[Chomper Higgot]

On 24 April 2018 at 11:20 AM, lust said:

I remember when Canada used to be a respected country. 

 

Welcome to Canada 2.0. Cuckanada. Where isis members are put before their own veterans and senior citizens. 

The killer here was not a member or supporter of ISIS, he was a sad git who couldn't get a woman... an experience that has driven many a farang to come to Thailand. 

 

Oddly, this not being able to get a women is allied with deep seated mysoginism (would anyone guess that from reading posts on TVF I wonder?!)

[Chomper Higgot]

On 24 April 2018 at 5:40 PM, Jingthing said:

These kinds of mass murder by vehicle attacks have been closely associated with Islamist terrorism in recent years so I think it is perfectly reasonable to suspect that as the motive at first before there is actual specific information. It's just a matter of probabilities. Usually but not always. 

 

Next ... 

Alternatively, Islamist violence is perpetrated by a tiny (minute) minority of the billion plus muslims in the world.

 

The vast majority of peace loving, law abiding muslims are not responsible for any crimes of violence.

 

If you choose, as many here do, to leap to assumptions and blame islam and muslims with no evidence you are responsible for spreading un founded fear and the associated hatred. 

 

If you are wrong, man up, apologise and learn the lesson for the future - do not assume.

[Chomper Higgot]

23 hours ago, nausea said:

I don't think the guy would have done this without the Islamic example. Like cars ploughing into people wasn't a big problem 10 years ago. Now, it's a big problem, bigger than the gun debate in the US. You can solve that (the gun debate) by legislation, this you can't solve.

Am I allowed to say this.... <deleted> man get a grip.

 

The perp he chose to do what he did, he is responsible and he's not a muslim. 

 

 

[nausea]

33 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Am I allowed to say this.... <deleted> man get a grip.

The perp he chose to do what he did, he is responsible and he's not a muslim. 

Ha! You can say what you like as far as I'm concerned, I'm not particularly precious. You're right to be worried though, I got banned for saying to someone "don't be an idiot", almost a term of endearment in the UK. Cultural US/UK problem I suspect.

[mrdome]

Well, you learn something new everyday, as already stated by ChomperHiggins, we have a new kind of terrorist threat: Men who can't get laid and blame others for it - Yikes - meet the incels (involuntarily celibates), most of them just keyboard warriors but now two of them have killed in retaliation:

 

http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2018/04/24/incels-hail-toronto-van-driver-who-killed-10-as-a-new-elliot-rodger-talk-of-future-acid-attacks-and-mass-rapes/

 

This is all completely new (and sickening) to me.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Alternatively, Islamist violence is perpetrated by a tiny (minute) minority of the billion plus muslims in the world.

 

The vast majority of peace loving, law abiding muslims are not responsible for any crimes of violence.

 

If you choose, as many here do, to leap to assumptions and blame islam and muslims with no evidence you are responsible for spreading un founded fear and the associated hatred. 

 

If you are wrong, man up, apologise and learn the lesson for the future - do not assume.

Dude, you totally misread my POV. I never said this attack was Islamist. I merely stated the obvious reality -- because these kinds of vehicle mass murders have been associated with Islamist terrorism (but not always) BEFORE any evidence actually exists, people ARE going to strongly suspect Islamist motives. You can't stop them. They just will.  I have nothing to apologize for in saying the way it is in the world. That is an objective reality.  I would never favor actually reporting it is Islamist before there is evidence. If some "news" sources did that, shame on them.

 

Don't bother giving me insipid morality lectures again for stuff I didn't even do. 

 

As far as Islamist terror in the world, you are correct actual active actors are a small minority. HOWEVER, Muslim people that have sympathy or feel support for such acts represent a much, much larger population. That's a truth you seem to be trying to avoid. But it is real. Inconvenient and unpleasant, but real.