Building A House In Issan

[khunandy]

Yes, would love to see an update.. Or even if things went bad or just slow, please don't be shy, it can always be fixed again.

Hi all,

Sorry about going AWOL for a while, its been a busy time. The house story has taken a turn and in short at this present time the builder has been sacked. Its a great pity but there was a series of events over the last few months that built up to a position where we could have lost some money. here is how it happened , some owner/builders may benefit from this and recognise when the rot can set in.

The agreement from the start was periodical payments when certain stages of construction were accomplished. Each payment was to be 300,000 baht and all was going well until 3 months ago. The builder asked for a payment but hadn't achieved the agreed stage. My wife and I talked about it and we had a meeting with the builder, I explained that we would pay but voiced my concerns that the supply of materials was slow the following payment wouldn't be forthcoming unless all the materials to complete the house were on site within a month and the labour force was increased to at least try to complete the house within the agreed period. Both the material supplies and the labourer numbers had slowed to a trickle.

We also pointed out that he had a clause in the contract that he would face penalty costs (1% per day) if he did not meet the deadline. We didnt have any intention really to enforce the penalties but just wanted some leverage if things got ridiculous. It seemed a good meeting and lots of smiles and assurances all round. I went off to work then for 4 weeks. To cut a long story short , some materials arrived in bits and pieces, the workmanship went downhill and my wife was just getting totally frustrated hassling them to redo shoddy work. This was a big dissapointment as he was going so well for the previous six months.

I had a month of making the calls home, little progress made and a wife getting to the end of her tether. When I got home the contract date was up and I had another meeting with the builder, he smiled a lot and told me everything was under control but the simple truth is that there was very little to see for the last 300,000 baht payment. It was decision time.

We told the builder that we would give him 2 weeks to get all the required material on site to complete the work, he was reminded that the contract date had expired but I was willing to ignore the penalty clause if I saw a genuine effort to finish the job. he failed to turn up for a few agreed meetings and started to ignore my wifes phoncalls so we knew he had to go. We waited the two weeks out as agreed. In the meantime the building foreman/supervisor told us that he was owed 200,000 baht...alarm bells went off.

We were withholding 400,000 baht, enough to finish the job and fix some stuff ups. The final staw came when the wife and I went to look at the house and the builder and his foreman were sitting on the tailgate of his pickup watching a guy weld the handrails for the stairs. I looked at the handrails and they were uneven, the welding looked like bird sh*t and on top of it all they were not the agreed design or material. I called them both over, pointed at the railings and asked what was going on and why were they just sitting there watching this guy do a crappy job. This led to me checking the newly installed timber windows, half were mis-shapen and badly installed, even to the point of opposing handles on the twin windows not matching by up to 4 inches on some of them, this is almost unbelievable if you can understand what I am trying to describe.

It went downhill from there. I walked off to cool down as this habit theirs of doing a lot of things twice was getting to me.

The wife stayed to talk with them and sure enough the request for more money and more time came, we had discussed this when we found out the builder owed his foreman a lot of money and had already decided that we wouldnt be handing over any more until the final acceptance of the finished house.

In short it developed into a screaming match between my wife and the builder, the foremans son got in the act and it ended up going pear shaped with the wife running them off the site, all of them and their equipment were gone in 30 minutes.

So as it stands now, we have another builder lined up, have received quotations for finishing the house and will not be out of pocket. My wife has employed a mediator (I think he is a govt man) to sit down with all parties and disolve the contract, settle agreed costs for any materials exceeding the last progress payment and then get on with the job with the new builder. One of the main reasons we decided to finish with the guy is that the house is basically finished , everything now is cosmetic but the workmanship had gone downhill and cheap materials have started to be used. I feel that we would have ended up with a nice well built house but the finishing touches letting it down.

Sorry for the lack of photos once again, in all the drama I left the camera at home. So that is where it stands right now.

On a positive note we are very happy with the house, the extra sitting area we had added outside the main bedroom is great, the upper story catches whatever breeze is about and we have nice views from all rooms. The only thing we need to think about is the upstairs central courtyard, this gets full exposure to the sun and will require some sort of shading, I expect the addition of plants and palms will reduce it but at midday it is an extremely hot area.

Khun Andy

[siamaloha]

The only thing we need to think about is the upstairs central courtyard, this gets full exposure to the sun and will require some sort of shading, I expect the addition of plants and palms will reduce it but at midday it is an extremely hot area.

When I first looked at those government plans for this house, that was my first thought.. that the open courtyard would often be practically unusable, especially with the sun beating down on it, or during the rainy season.

So sorry to hear about the contractor problems Khun Andy... it seemed things were moving along so well. Sounds like you're back on track though, and look forward to seeing some pics. Good luck!

[chanchao]

Thanks for the update!!!

Rest assured you're not the first or the last person to go through something like that. The cause is probably the contractor's inability to plan costs, perhaps not just this house but also any other projects he might be doing; he will have tried to pass people and money around but in the end couldn't fill one hole with the other anymore and things fell apart; it happens; that's why payments are phased in this business.

Hope you find a good contractor to finish the job; seems the final 10% of any job always takes 90% of the time, effort and aggravation..

Edited June 22, 2007 by chanchao

[khunandy]

Thanks for the update!!!

Rest assured you're not the first or the last person to go through something like that. The cause is probably the contractor's inability to plan costs, perhaps not just this house but also any other projects he might be doing; he will have tried to pass people and money around but in the end couldn't fill one hole with the other anymore and things fell apart; it happens; that's why payments are phased in this business.

Hope you find a good contractor to finish the job; seems the final 10% of any job always takes 90% of the time, effort and aggravation..

Chanchao,

I think you hit the nail right on the head, he was building a nice house a few miles down the road and we have heard that they had some very stiff penalty clauses if it wasnt finished in time for Songkran. The final stages were finished in such record time that I suspect our money and labour force were used to finish that house.

He only had to be honest with me, when I suspected that he had money problems I offered to buy what he needed so the team had things to go on with but he didnt like the idea, he wanted the cash.

Thanks for your supportive words anyway, the other builder is standing by for the paperwork to be finalised then he will finish it. Ironically he was our prefered builder last year but had other projects on the go and couldnt fit us in.

Khun Andy

[khunandy]

Hi all,

My wife sent me some photos today so I could add them to this topic. building should resume next week but at least the perimeter wall and water tank are still being constructed in the meantime.

I liked the strength of this building method, each of the horizontal braces has its own vertical foundation. Looks like the elusive stringline went missing again half way down though.

We are pleased with the "look" of the house from the street

A different angle of the front.

The bath was supposed to be bigger but something got lost in translation and my frequesnt absences. I had visions of lying back and enjoying the view but it is a pretty small bath. this bathroom is off the main bedroom

This is the ensuite from the guest bedroom and also has a door from the central courtyard upstairs. I would have like to have had a nicer theme to the room and better quality tiles but it was within the house budget and it doesnt look too bad

This is looking from the side. Upstairs to the left is the ensuite from the main bedroom and to the right is my study. Downstairs to the left is the downstairs (Thai) kitchen and to the right is the laundry.

This is the extra verandah/sitting area we had added onto to the original plans, I really wanted somewhere private,cool and shady to sit looking over the farm land to the mountains, beautiful sunsets from this verandah. This area gets a nice breeze in the afternoons and has a nice timber slat ceiling and ceiling fan. Perfect

Same area, this comes off the main bedroom. I have sat here at sunset and had a couple of cold ones, it keeps the dream alive. The wifes family owns most of the farm land we can see from here.

Rear view. This was the main alteration we had done to the original plan. We had it stretched longer to accomodate the sitting area on the left and the ensuite on the right. In the middle is the main bedroom which is now 8 metres x 4.2 metres. It is nice to have the ensuite leading off one end and the verandah off the other and the central courtyard from the middle.

Anyway, I was getting down in the dumps due to the recent hassles but feel energised again now, my wife has had a few weeks away from the daily grind of dealing with the builders and she is keen to recommence next week as well.

Khun Andy

[Zeid]

Khun Andy

this is what i am talking about and more or less what i plan to do,

do you mind to ask how much did it all in all cost?

Great House, i am not sure in your culture what you do to push the envy eye away but touch wood

[khunandy]

Khun Andy

this is what i am talking about and more or less what i plan to do,

do you mind to ask how much did it all in all cost?

Great House, i am not sure in your culture what you do to push the envy eye away but touch wood

Hi Zeid

The total price was to be 2.4 mil , we paid the builder 2 mil before the hassles so we have 400,000 baht to finish it, from the two quotes we have had to finish it looks like we might actually save some money, heres hoping anyway.

There are of course extras that were not in the original quote, The western kitchen for instance, the roof gutters and down pipes, the retaining walls and water storage tank, air cons etc etc...the list grows.

I wont be doing a final tally until we move in.

I am just comfortable knowing that we arent being too extravagant in these extras , just trying to be practical.

Khun Andy

[khunandy]

Khun Andy

this is what i am talking about and more or less what i plan to do,

do you mind to ask how much did it all in all cost?

Great House, i am not sure in your culture what you do to push the envy eye away but touch wood

Hi Zeid

The total price was to be 2.4 mil , we paid the builder 2 mil before the hassles so we have 400,000 baht to finish it, from the two quotes we have had to finish it looks like we might actually save some money, heres hoping anyway.

There are of course extras that were not in the original quote, The western kitchen for instance, the roof gutters and down pipes, the retaining walls and water storage tank, air cons etc etc...the list grows.

I wont be doing a final tally until we move in.

I am just comfortable knowing that we arent being too extravagant in these extras , just trying to be practical.

Khun Andy

Dont know why it loaded twice...dodgy internet connection today.

Edited June 27, 2007 by khunandy

[Zeid]

K Andy

i want to prin out the plans but it seems the link is not correct and my wife now back in thailand i have no idea how to get there, can you please send me the main page where you selected from the houses, there was another house that was white. maybe i can get a quote while the mrs is there.

i would keep the lower floor open so that the dogs can stay there a workshop, and the wife can sing her head off to the koroeke machine.

[Zeid]

done

site working

got all the houses.

K. ANDY

your posts have been really great will e-mailmy wife today to get quotes.

and i just quit my job.... ###### post

[Crossy]

The plans page moved slightly it's here now http://subweb.dpt.go.th/pip/house_model/framehome.html

Or the same plans are hosted here, in a more friendly format http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/

EDIT House looks great Andy

We're still in the process of filling (adding another .5m after last November's flood). The Missus also decided to make a 'few' adjustments meaning we're now based on No27 but with fairly significant (architect involved) modifications.

Edited June 27, 2007 by Crossy

[Zeid]

and i looked around till i found a place and started downloading all the plans. thanks for the link yes it is very nice site.

nanon more user friendly

[khunandy]

The plans page moved slightly it's here now http://subweb.dpt.go.th/pip/house_model/framehome.html

Or the same plans are hosted here, in a more friendly format http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/

EDIT House looks great Andy

We're still in the process of filling (adding another .5m after last November's flood). The Missus also decided to make a 'few' adjustments meaning we're now based on No27 but with fairly significant (architect involved) modifications.

Just looked at #27, I really like this one and wondered why I didnt build it, nice little balconies and a nice traditional high pitched roof. One thing mate, 27 and 30 are basically the same foot print and I am glad i extended the main bedroom and jiggled things about. No doubt you have made your alterations as well.

Khun Andy

Crossy, you are a gem. I am in China at the moment and the company server will not let me into that Thai site. I thought I would have to wait a few weeks before I could check something out.

Its taking a while to download but I am looking forward to checking out #27 again.

Good luck

Khun Andy

Edited June 27, 2007 by khunandy

[Zeid]

andy your is #27 yes?

[Crossy]

Its taking a while to download but I am looking forward to checking out #27 again.

No problem

27 is very similar to yours, main change is the roof structure which is more suited to the pointy bits the wife wants and the support columns being circular (more tree like she says), I'll bet she paints them brown.

Meanwhile, we were out the other day when the Lovely Lady spots this:-

Luckily (?) the owners were out so we couldn't have a proper look, but it's a new construction, be interesting to know how much it cost.

[Zeid]

this is somewhat was looking at but the wife says it will bring ghosts, and quite convinced that it will

is it cheaper to use these panels than to make all from brinks, because it is more appealing this way.

[khunandy]

andy your is #27 yes?

No Zeid mine is No 30,

Crossy,

Last week I saw what looked like your #27 being built but with the same roof design as your photo on your last post, I wanted to stop and have a look but was pressed for time. It is on the Nth bound ring road by-passing udon thani city, I am definately going to stop and have a look in 3 weeks time because it really looked nice. Totally changed the charactor into classic thai

Khun Andy

[Crossy]

Last week I saw what looked like your #27 being built but with the same roof design as your photo on your last post,..., I am definately going to stop and have a look in 3 weeks time because it really looked nice. Totally changed the charactor into classic thai

If you can take some photos that would be great, may give my lady more ideas (funny how none of them make it cheaper). The nice thing about having an architect who uses AutoCAD is that changes are really quick and if you don't like the look, you can put it back.

I like your extra balcony (idea filed for next time I see the man), we've removed the front steps and extended the slab out front by 2m to give a nice large sitting area (the roof is extended too). Once we've got some final drawings I'll post here.

[khunandy]

[

If you can take some photos that would be great, may give my lady more ideas (funny how none of them make it cheaper). The nice thing about having an architect who uses AutoCAD is that changes are really quick and if you don't like the look, you can put it back.

I like your extra balcony (idea filed for next time I see the man), we've removed the front steps and extended the slab out front by 2m to give a nice large sitting area (the roof is extended too). Once we've got some final drawings I'll post here.

Yes mate I can do that, it will be around the 20th July. Your 2 metres extension out the front sounds like a good idea. Later on I may continue extending my upstairs verandah to wrap around the back.

As I mentioned before my thoughts at he moment are how to provide shade for the upstairs courtyard. I can think of a few ugly, quick solutions but want it to be in theme with the house if possible.

Cheers

Khun Andy

[khunandy]

[

If you can take some photos that would be great, may give my lady more ideas (funny how none of them make it cheaper). The nice thing about having an architect who uses AutoCAD is that changes are really quick and if you don't like the look, you can put it back.

I like your extra balcony (idea filed for next time I see the man), we've removed the front steps and extended the slab out front by 2m to give a nice large sitting area (the roof is extended too). Once we've got some final drawings I'll post here.

Yes mate I can do that, it will be around the 20th July. Your 2 metres extension out the front sounds like a good idea. Later on I may continue extending my upstairs verandah to wrap around the back.

As I mentioned before my thoughts at he moment are how to provide shade for the upstairs courtyard. I can think of a few ugly, quick solutions but want it to be in theme with the house if possible.

Cheers

Khun Andy

[chanchao]

Thanks for the pictures!!!!!!!!!! I am *SERIOUSLY* impressed with this. Also the semi-outside bathroom, the terrace.. it's the ultimate Thai living but built in a sensible way and to a great budget.

Be careful with the perimeter wall, it's kind of a pet peeve of mine. An excellent example was posted in this topic:

Nice house, well, Central Thai style which isn't my thing, but nice looking all the same. But look at that absolutely HIDEOUS wall... It's not just hideous from the outside but must look equally hideous also from the inside. I'd rather have no wall that such a ugly concrete-brick monstrosity. Save some money, then put in something that blends in, not something you'd build around a jail. I think walls are overrated as protection anyway.

this is somewhat was looking at but the wife says it will bring ghosts, and quite convinced that it will

is it cheaper to use these panels than to make all from brinks, because it is more appealing this way.

Heh, wood, especially the good stuff that lasts and is weather resistant is seriously expensive. And of course it needs more maintenance, so I've pretty much given up on it other than to use superficially for beautification, not structurally.

The Central Thai style house probably cost a heck of a lot more than KhunAndy's house, and it doesn't look any better. Actually I greatly prefer the look of KhunAndy's house, which is PERFECT architecture and built with affordable and appropriate materials without going overboard on the wood and associated expense & hassle.

[chanchao]

Questions / critique:

1. Glass blocks for windows downstairs..... Grrrr. Or is that a bathroom area?

2. Is your roof vented at the top? Mostly louver style vents go into the top triangular gable which allows the roof to cool down so the rooms below it aren't heated up too much. It's hard to see on the picture but they look like solid wood?

Edited June 28, 2007 by chanchao

[khunandy]

Questions / critique:

1. Glass blocks for windows downstairs..... Grrrr. Or is that a bathroom area?

2. Is your roof vented at the top? Mostly louver style vents go into the top triangular gable which allows the roof to cool down so the rooms below it aren't heated up too much. It's hard to see on the picture but they look like solid wood?

Chanchao,

Glass blocks Grrr indeed . There is tale to this but the nuts and bolts of the matter are that this was done in my absense and was an "executive decision" of my wifes. When she first sent me the photo I couldn't stop looking at those bloody glass blocks. I have gotten used to them now and will cunningly disguise them with some vegetation. I may even speak with the new builder about changing them, for some reason the missus likes them. What to do???

The roofs are vented on the gables although the louvres are slim, we will just have to see how good it works, I was expecting larger louvre slats. Although the mathamatics say there is still the same volume of air flowing through (roughly).

The exterior wood panelling is purely cosmetic and is "grained and stained" fibre board.

This is how the perimeter wall is to be constructed

[Crossy]

Nice house, well, Central Thai style which isn't my thing, but nice looking all the same. But look at that absolutely HIDEOUS wall... It's not just hideous from the outside but must look equally hideous also from the inside. I'd rather have no wall that such a ugly concrete-brick monstrosity. Save some money, then put in something that blends in, not something you'd build around a jail. I think walls are overrated as protection anyway.

Yep, 'orrible wall, even has the broken glass on top We had a peer through the gate (much to the annoyance of the HUGE Rotti living within), the wall is rendered and painted, doesn't actually look too bad but certainly not what we're doing.

We have a khlong on three sides and no sluice, hence the flooding problem (but it does mean we have boat access to the river) so only having a wall on the road side more to keep out the cows that wander along occasionally than any real security.

I do like the Central Thai style, we're basically doing a no27 with a modified roof styled on the central but without the complex-to-build (expensive) curves, really just adding the spikey bits and overhanging gables to the existing structure, we're right next to a Wat so shouldn't look out of place.

I asked the Missus about the centre courtyard getting hot, the answer "sit downstairs or under the roof" Actually, it will likely end up full of plants which are really good at absorbing excess sunshine, we shall see

[khunandy]

I asked the Missus about the centre courtyard getting hot, the answer "sit downstairs or under the roof" Actually, it will likely end up full of plants which are really good at absorbing excess sunshine, we shall see

Ha ha, thats exactly what my wife said, along with a sideways glance that I know so well. your position close to the water sounds nice, I have a definate affection for close proximity to water. Flood risks accepted.

Be nice to see your plans when you have them finished.

[chanchao]

Depends how clean the water is... I once lived near water that was pretty nasty stuff. But if it's clean enough then sure I'd like to be near a stream..

I may even speak with the new builder about changing them, for some reason the missus likes them. What to do???

Breaking those walls is real cheap and easy. You're not walking away from a lot of cost as those blocks go for about 40 baht each. Of course any replacement windows could get expensive. What room is behind that wall? My 'dream home' (as it exists in my dreams only) currently includes some of those tall door/window panels that 'slide & fold' open. Like this:

In Thailand for example Häfele make all the hardware needed for that, I think you can use it with any type of door/window panel.

I like the permiter wall design!

Edited June 28, 2007 by chanchao

[khunandy]

Depends how clean the water is... I once lived near water that was pretty nasty stuff. But if it's clean enough then sure I'd like to be near a stream..

I may even speak with the new builder about changing them, for some reason the missus likes them. What to do???

Breaking those walls is real cheap and easy. You're not walking away from a lot of cost as those blocks go for about 40 baht each. Of course any replacement windows could get expensive. What room is behind that wall? My 'dream home' (as it exists in my dreams only) currently includes some of those tall door/window panels that 'slide & fold' open. Like this:

In Thailand for example Häfele make all the hardware needed for that, I think you can use it with any type of door/window panel.

I like the permiter wall design!

Chanchao,

Behind the glass block windows is a utility room, maybe for a caretaker while we are away or whatever. Actually the effect of the blocks from the inside is quite pleasant but as you say it would be easily replaced and it does detract a bit from the house design.

The upstairs lounge room has a nice big set of concertina doors on the original plans but we changed them due to wanting to fit flywire doors. We will be having timber and glass double doors instead. We both liked the look of the originals but I cant be ar*ed slapping away at insects while watching telly.

Khun Andy

[NovaBlue05]

I asked the Missus about the centre courtyard getting hot, the answer "sit downstairs or under the roof" Actually, it will likely end up full of plants which are really good at absorbing excess sunshine, we shall see

Probably as good as any suggestion. I can't think of anything else offhand which wouldn't be aesthetically undesirable. Use the downstairs for lounging during the heat of the day and the upstairs after sundown

[Livinginexile]

Nice one Andy

It looks like you're building paradise to me.

Please keep us posted as to progress (some pics too)

Best of luck to you and the Mrs

[selftaopath]

our new home is being built in Roi Et... our original interest was in this plan (http://www.masterplan101.com/plan_04_2.html) from a firm based in Bangkok. They quoted over 6 million baht to build the house so we decided to hire a local architect and engineer to produce a simular plan and build... so far so good.

currently they are working on the 2nd floor ceiling and completing work on the first floor walls. as you can see there's still a long way to go before it can be lived in. i asked that priority be taken to make the bedrooms and bathrooms liveable... so i expect to move in 3-4 months from now. here's a breakdown on the room sizes if you're interested.

FLOOR 1

kitchen 32sq.m. / 344sq.ft.

livingroom 60sq.m. / 646sq.ft.

diningroom 32sq.m. / 344sq.ft

central area (entertaining/bar/staircase) 99sq.m. / 1,066sq.ft.

guest bathroom 5sq.m. / 54 sq.ft.

bedroom 1 23sq.m. / 348 sq.ft

bedroom 1 bathroom 4sq.m. / 43 sq.ft.

bedroom 2 20sq.m. / 215sq.ft.

bedroom 2 bathroom 5sq.m. / 54 sq.ft.

FLOOR 2

office 32sq.m. / 344sq.ft.

bedroom 3 23sq.m. / 348sq.ft.

bedroom 3 bathroom 4sq.m. / 43sq.ft.

master bedroom 68sq.m. / 732sq.ft.

master bathroom 18sq.m. / 194sq.ft.

central area (hall/staircase/opening to floor 1) 32sq.m. / 344sq.ft.

terrace area (outdoor) 141sq.m. / 1,518sq.ft.

FLOOR 3

entertaining (incl. staircase area) 61sq.m. / 657sq.ft.

terrace area (outdoor) 93sq.m. / 1,001sq.ft.

TOTAL AREA

indoor 518sq.m. / 5,576sq.ft

terrace (outdoor) 234sq.m. / 2,518sq.ft.

TOTAL VOLUME

indoor

(all ceilings are 3.4 meters / 11 feet high) 1,761cu.m. / 62,196cu.ft.

TOTAL COSTS

contract Baht 2,375,000 / US$ 69,500

contract includes all major construction materials and labor charges (including cement, steel, interior/exterior paint, interior doors, drywall for ceilings, floor tile installation, bathroom fixture installation, electrical and plumbing installation, exterior window and door installation, exterior terrace railings, driveway construction).

additional costs i will take care of include: all windows and exterior doors (custom made), bathroom fixtures (sinks, toilets, baths, etc.), electrical supples, light fixtures, plumbing supplies, kitchen appliances, kitchen cabinets (and installation), floor tiles, driveway materials. i agreed to pay for these charges myself primarily so i can be sure the materials meet "western" standards.

if interested i'll keep everyone updated as it comes along!

dan

Hi Dan, I really could use some help. We would appreciate it if you or anyone else can direct us to an architect or builder, preferrably in Isaan and near Khon Kaen. For more than a month now we are stuck at finding a suitable architect or builder. We originally contacted an "expert architect/ builder" in my T/G/F 's mooban in Nong Sung (near Khon Kaen). We showed him some layout plans from a house being built (commercially in Hua Hin) and can be viewed at www.thai-homes/brochures/thevinyards-web.pdf He assured me he could do the job i.e. make detailed drawings and set up the start of building etc. WELL he has since become MIA- doesn't answer his phone etc. I have been relying on my g/f to contact individuals who are near her mooban (our future home) but seems like she is unable to find anyone. I can see the benefits to hiring Isaan people but we can not find them :-) So now it feels like we are "all dressed up with no place to go." Ideally I would love working with an English speaking person, cutting down on alot of translating thru my g/f. I envy those of you who have successfully gone before many of us; hope we can benefit from your experience.

Best regards, and thanks again

Keoki