New Thai law to pave way for same-sex partnerships

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Could say the same thing about a dog. Providing it has a good home, who cares who it`s guardians are.

 

Sorry, it doesn`t work that way where children are concerned. The norm for children is, they have a mother, they have a father, they have aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents, they have a proper family background.

     So, gay parents don't have aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents?  A child of gay parents would just be missing a mother or a father--and there are many children being raised well with a single male or female parent figure.

[Jingthing]

The proposed Thai law is about assets not parental rights. So far the same ignorant homophobic attitudes reflected in some of the posts here are and will be reflected in the law here.

Practically speaking if the couple has children only one person in the couple will legally be the parent. So let's say the parent dies so then the child would be an orphan but if they had both had parental rights the child would still have a parent. The couples both having parental rights obviously provides more stability for the children.



Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[greenchair]

4 hours ago, d2b2 said:

The only thing worse than being misinformed, is being misinformed and spreading that misinformation 

https://journals.lww.com/jrnldbp/Abstract/2016/04000/Same_Sex_and_Different_Sex_Parent_Households_and.1.aspx

So one study of 95 female couples by telephone survey in your mind is an extensive study, similar to alcoholic and drug families. 

The children were only asked about to the age of 17 which is hardly indicative. 

How many male male studies have been done. 

And not with one phone call either. 

In depth study? 

[AGareth2]

is the percentage of gay children with straight parents the same as gay children to same sex couples?

[jak2002003]

2 hours ago, greenchair said:

So one study of 95 female couples by telephone survey in your mind is an extensive study, similar to alcoholic and drug families. 

The children were only asked about to the age of 17 which is hardly indicative. 

How many male male studies have been done. 

And not with one phone call either. 

In depth study? 

Well, our 3 boys all grew up with their 2 gay fathers.. and they all turned out straight.  

 

People like you would probably have taken our children away from us because for some reason you think gay parents are not healthy for children.  

 

Would you also like to take children away from single parents, after their partner died or left?  How about taking kids off mixed race marriages, or parents of different religions while you are at it?

 

You would like to put them in a loving Christian Family to teach them family values.. where they would be brainwashed into religion, or molested by some pervert priest.  But you would still think that was better than letting 2 loving decent human males to raise them.

 

And, I read other posters on here think my partner and I should be murdered..and the rest of our gay friends.... like they do in Saudi Arabia... because we are gay?  Right?  Wow!  Some evil, nasty little people on here... and YOU would prefer children be raised by people like that rather than a gay couple?!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eligius]

50 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Well, our 3 boys all grew up with their 2 gay fathers.. and they all turned out straight.  

 

People like you would probably have taken our children away from us because for some reason you think gay parents are not healthy for children.  

 

Would you also like to take children away from single parents, after their partner died or left?  How about taking kids off mixed race marriages, or parents of different religions while you are at it?

 

You would like to put them in a loving Christian Family to teach them family values.. where they would be brainwashed into religion, or molested by some pervert priest.  But you would still think that was better than letting 2 loving decent human males to raise them.

 

And, I read other posters on here think my partner and I should be murdered..and the rest of our gay friends.... like they do in Saudi Arabia... because we are gay?  Right?  Wow!  Some evil, nasty little people on here... and YOU would prefer children be raised by people like that rather than a gay couple?!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Superb post (above)  - one of the best ever on this topic! Nothing more to add to this, beyond the observation that the inhumanity of some people is CHILLING (stoning and murdering gays, as per the enlightened state of Saudi Arabia  - for God's sake!).

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Eligius

[d2b2]

4 hours ago, greenchair said:

So one study of 95 female couples by telephone survey in your mind is an extensive study, similar to alcoholic and drug families. 

The children were only asked about to the age of 17 which is hardly indicative. 

How many male male studies have been done. 

And not with one phone call either. 

In depth study? 

There are numerous studies showing similar results whereas most studies showing otherwise lack per review and support. It is like climate change. A bunch of bunk studies without peer review are cited by those who want to live in the dark and the relavant studies be dammed.  Google the question yourself. There are plenty to find if understanding the issue is what you seek, otherwise stay in the dark. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by d2b2

[cyberfarang]

7 hours ago, newnative said:

     So, gay parents don't have aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents?  A child of gay parents would just be missing a mother or a father--and there are many children being raised well with a single male or female parent figure.

Stupid question. Work it out for yourself, can`t be bothered to explain.

[newnative]

38 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Stupid question. Work it out for yourself, can`t be bothered to explain.

    Nothing to work out and it was, obviously, a rhetorical question.

[greenchair]

5 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Well, our 3 boys all grew up with their 2 gay fathers.. and they all turned out straight.  

 

People like you would probably have taken our children away from us because for some reason you think gay parents are not healthy for children.  

 

Would you also like to take children away from single parents, after their partner died or left?  How about taking kids off mixed race marriages, or parents of different religions while you are at it?

 

You would like to put them in a loving Christian Family to teach them family values.. where they would be brainwashed into religion, or molested by some pervert priest.  But you would still think that was better than letting 2 loving decent human males to raise them.

 

And, I read other posters on here think my partner and I should be murdered..and the rest of our gay friends.... like they do in Saudi Arabia... because we are gay?  Right?  Wow!  Some evil, nasty little people on here... and YOU would prefer children be raised by people like that rather than a gay couple?!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say any of the over the top paranoia that you are suggesting. 

I said there needs to be studies done. And any gay loving father would want that for their children to give them the best start in life. Just as there are many studies on heterosexual families, that are welcomed by their loving parents. You obviously have done a great job and created a healthy family with unusual circumstances.but that is exception. The nature of a male is to be a polygamist wonderer and that is enhanced greatly when males double up. I have seen a few gay males in long term relationship that are stable and really no different from heterosexual norms. But mostly gays are promiscuous, have been sexually abused as children themselves , suffer from depression , sometimes find it difficult to find work and spend their nights in gay bars. 

So,  in most cases, I would say the gays shouldn't be raising children or adopting children . 

[Eligius]

According to a number of scientific studies which I have found on whether gay parents have a negative impact on their children's emotional/ mental development, it seems that there is no significant impact of such a kind. Here is a quote from 'Medical Daily' (2013):

 

'The myth of poor mental health by children of same sex parents has been debunked by an Australian study conducted at the University of Melbourne and published in the journal BMC Public Health. The Australian Study of Child Health in Same-Sex Families (ACHESS) is a large investigation of 500 Australian children below the age of 18 with same sex parents. Researchers found that children with LGBT [lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender] parents had the same amount of self-esteem and spent as much family time with their parents compared to children of heterosexual parents. In fact, investigators found that children of gay and lesbian couples to be healthier and have a stronger family unit.'

 

So it seems that the myth of children's being negatively impacted upon in consequence of their being raised by a gay couple is just that - an unfounded myth.

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Eligius

[jak2002003]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

I didn't say any of the over the top paranoia that you are suggesting. 

I said there needs to be studies done. And any gay loving father would want that for their children to give them the best start in life. Just as there are many studies on heterosexual families, that are welcomed by their loving parents. You obviously have done a great job and created a healthy family with unusual circumstances.but that is exception. The nature of a male is to be a polygamist wonderer and that is enhanced greatly when males double up. I have seen a few gay males in long term relationship that are stable and really no different from heterosexual norms. But mostly gays are promiscuous, have been sexually abused as children themselves , suffer from depression , sometimes find it difficult to find work and spend their nights in gay bars. 

So,  in most cases, I would say the gays shouldn't be raising children or adopting children . 

Who are you do decide who should and should not be raising or adopting children?

 

If you think the 'nature' of a male is to be a polygamist... (gay or STRAIGHT), then what is the difference between gay or straight people marrying?  You should be encouraging gays to get married and adopt the family life.. to settle them down to normality.. lol. 

 

'Most gays are promiscuous'......how do you know this?  You think straight men are not promiscuous?  I see straight men in the bars here going off with hookers.  Many straight men have affairs in their relationships too.  Just gay people are more honest about it!  In fact, most of my female friends have had straight male boyfriends cheat on them at some point in their lives.  

 

NO gay people I know (and most of my friends are gay) have been sexually abused as a child.  Where do you dream that up from?  

 

Are you really so ignorant as to believe what you are saying?  No more gays suffer form depression than straights... as for finding is difficult to work... where is you evidence?  Gay teenagers may spend a couple nights a week in gay bars... but straight people spend their night is straight bars!!!!

 

You seen to be confusing a persons social life and personality with being gay a straight.  If you spent some time with gay people your own age you would see we are no different to anybody else (except what we like in the bedroom).  

 

For you to have thought up all these ideas, or actually spent time looking for them, researching them.. shows nothing more that you are out to put down gay people.. and reinforce your warped view about them.

 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, greenchair said:

...
But mostly gays are promiscuous, have been sexually abused as children themselves , suffer from depression , sometimes find it difficult to find work and spend their nights in gay bars. 

So,  in most cases, I would say the gays shouldn't be raising children or adopting children . 

Thank you for more of the anti-gay HATE SPEECH that you've emitted here for years now. We've been over this garbage anti-gay propaganda you promote before. When challenged for sources, you provide totally ideological sources from far right wing anti-gay hate groups. You try to act like you're providing objective facts when you're doing the opposite. SHAME ON YOU.

 

To add, these laws impact lesbian parents as well, actually more so.

[Fish Head Soup]

8 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

And, I read other posters on here think my partner and I should be murdered..and the rest of our gay friends.... like they do in Saudi Arabia... because we are gay?  Right?  Wow!  Some evil, nasty little people on here.

A little dramatic no? Murder? I don't see anyone here advocating murder. You have just juiced the reality up to add some drama.

[Kadilo]

4 hours ago, greenchair said:

. But mostly gays are promiscuous, have been sexually abused as children themselves , suffer from depression , sometimes find it difficult to find work and spend their nights in gay bars. 

So,  in most cases, I would say the gays shouldn't be raising children or adopting children . 

You sure you are not speaking about your own problems ?

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Fish Head Soup said:

A little dramatic no? Murder? I don't see anyone here advocating murder. You have just juiced the reality up to add some drama.

He isn't actually. There was a post here advocating Saudi style laws. They have the death penalty for being gay there. What, you didn't know that? Other nations as well. Well, anyway, now you know. 

Quote

Where is it illegal to be gay?

...

The legal status of people in same-sex relationships depends very much on where they live. At one end of the spectrum there are those countries that punish homosexuality with the death penalty - Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Yemen - as well as in parts of Nigeria and Somalia.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-25927595

 

Quote

12 Countries That Will Kill You for Being LGBT

https://www.advocate.com/world/2016/5/27/12-countries-will-kill-you-being-lgbt

[Fish Head Soup]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He isn't actually. There was a post here advocating Saudi style laws. They have the death penalty for being gay there. What, you didn't know that? Other nations as well. Well, anyway, now you know. 

Yes I'm aware that Saudi has the death penalty for being homosexual. I said earlier in the thread that they have it right.

 

The death penalty isn't murder.

 

Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. The death penalty is premeditated, and it is indeed the killing of another person, but it's lawful. If the majority have agreed to give the government conditional power to kill with their permission and they elect the civilian leaders who order the executions, then it is not murder.

 

The use of the word murder in the original post was an attempt to dramatize the consequences of breaching the social code, a breach of the rules upon which a society has more or less agreed upon. The use of the word 'murder' was a crude attempt at playing victim.

 

Even though the death penalty is available to the authorities in Saudi it is rarely used for the crime of homosexuality, the punishment is more likely to simply be flogging or prison time.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Fish Head Soup
Clarity

[cyberfarang]

Watch this and form your own opinions:

 

 

[Fish Head Soup]

^They are totally in the right. But it has nothing to do with religion for me. I'm not a religious person.

[Eligius]

On the question (raised by other posters) of whether killing gays by the state in Saudi Arabia is 'murder' or not (if it is mandated by the majority who elect the nation's leaders): in Saudi Arabia there is no genuine democracy and even attempts to get it are resisted (sound familiar?). Wikipedia says:

 

'In January 2016, Saudi Arabia executed the prominent Shia cleric Sheikh Nimr who had called for pro-democracy demonstrations and for free elections in Saudi Arabia.'

 

So, whether Saudi executes gays rarely or often, the act still essentially remains murder - murder by an illicit state power - in the eyes of most decent and civilised human beings.

 

And flogging gays (the preferred punishment there) just for being gay is pretty deplorable by most humane standards.

 

(By the way, I find it horrific beyond belief that in the year 2018 there are actually Westerners who advocate such punishments for human beings who happen to be gay.

In contrast, Jesus stopped the stoning of a prostitute/ adultress 2,000 years ago!).

 

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Eligius

[Wilsonandson]

If same sex marriage is going to be accepted the same as marriage between opposite sexes will people be able to register their marriage legally?

What about citizenship? Can marrying a Thai citizen qualify you for citizenship later on? Will you be able to have children using IVF? Can you adopt children? What about land ownership?

The legal side must also be the same for same sex marriage if it is truely going to be taken seriously.

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, Fish Head Soup said:

Yes I'm aware that Saudi has the death penalty for being homosexual. I said earlier in the thread that they have it right.

 

The death penalty isn't murder.

 

Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. The death penalty is premeditated, and it is indeed the killing of another person, but it's lawful. If the majority have agreed to give the government conditional power to kill with their permission and they elect the civilian leaders who order the executions, then it is not murder.

 

The use of the word murder in the original post was an attempt to dramatize the consequences of breaching the social code, a breach of the rules upon which a society has more or less agreed upon. The use of the word 'murder' was a crude attempt at playing victim.

 

Even though the death penalty is available to the authorities in Saudi it is rarely used for the crime of homosexuality, the punishment is more likely to simply be flogging or prison time.

So sorry, dude.

I hadn't realized before that it was YOU that has outrageously supported the death penalty for gay people.

You're splitting hairs with your it isn't murder B.S. You support killing gays only for being gay. Others, soak that in. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Jingthing

[d2b2]

I wonder how many of the nedative comments are being posted by men who have realtionships that are subject to the judgement of society. Older men with young wives, cross racial, arranged....

[Eligius]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So sorry, dude.

I hadn't realized before that it was YOU that has outrageously supported the death penalty for gay people.

You're splitting hairs with your it isn't murder B.S. You support killing gays only for being gay. Others, soak that in. 

Yes (agree with the above post): as I said in my earlier comments - supporting murdering someone just because they are gay is HORRIFIC and UNBELIEVABLE!

 

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Eligius

[greenchair]

On 4/26/2018 at 8:05 AM, mfd101 said:

Given that probably 99% of gay people are the children of straight parents, how does your argument stand up in those cases?

According to extensive studies, children that grow up to be gay overwhelmingly have been sexually abused as children, have parents that were drug addicts, parents that are alcoholics or have been physically abused. Of course there are some that do not fall into any of those categories. But then if a child was abused at 2 or 3 years old, there's a chance he /she wouldn't remember it. So who knows. Generally speaking there are few gays that didn't have some kind of serious trauma in their childhood. 

[watcharacters]

On 4/25/2018 at 10:55 AM, WinnieTheKhwai said:

 

But still limited to just one person right?  It reeks more of Western liberal imperialism than an actual step forward. 

 

Why don't governments just stay out of marriage completely.  Just stop micromanaging and documenting the way people choose to live together.

 

"Why don't governments just stay out of marriage completely.  Just stop micromanaging and documenting the way people choose to live together."

 

I suspect that what same sex proponents are basically seeking.      I gather they simply want the legitimizing of whatever relationship they choose.

 

Seems reasonable to me..

[Jingthing]

49 minutes ago, greenchair said:

According to extensive studies, children that grow up to be gay overwhelmingly have been sexually abused as children, have parents that were drug addicts, parents that are alcoholics or have been physically abused. Of course there are some that do not fall into any of those categories. But then if a child was abused at 2 or 3 years old, there's a chance he /she wouldn't remember it. So who knows. Generally speaking there are few gays that didn't have some kind of serious trauma in their childhood. 

Your entire post is filled with disgusting lies. Pure 100 percent anti-gay hate speech. I've confronted you before for sources for your troll attempts to convert people to your hate filled POV towards gay people and all you've ever posted are links from blatant anti-gay hate sites. Again, SHAME ON YOU. Anyone that buys your filth, check the souces yourself. greenchair won't bother posting them again because he knows how WORTHLESS they are. 

 

While I support free speech, I  think when people post extremely false information / hate speech as you have so many times over the years, they deserve aggressive push back. People if you actually encounter such extremist ignorant bigotry IRL, please do not stay silent. Call them out. Demand credible sources for their lies.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

39 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

"Why don't governments just stay out of marriage completely.  Just stop micromanaging and documenting the way people choose to live together."

 

I suspect that what same sex proponents are basically seeking.      I gather they simply want the legitimizing of whatever relationship they choose.

 

Seems reasonable to me..

I think the mainstream global feeling of gay people is that we should have the exact same legal rights as non-gay people. Nothing more and nothing less. This proposal in Thailand is so much less. Nothing to celebrate. Basically, a crumb served with weak tea. 

[ramrod711]

I have always believed that 2 people of the same sex should absolutely have the right to be just as miserable as 2 people of the opposite sex. I think for the most part, Thai people are much more free and willing to accept other peoples sexuality. Seems to be a much healthier attitude than in the west, and no I am not gay.

[Eligius]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Your entire post is filled with disgusting lies. Pure 100 percent anti-gay hate speech. I've confronted you before for sources for your troll attempts to convert people to your hate filled POV towards gay people and all you've ever posted are links from blatant anti-gay hate sites. Again, SHAME ON YOU. Anyone that buys your filth, check the souces yourself. greenchair won't bother posting them again because he knows how WORTHLESS they are. 

 

Yes, Jingthing. The claim that gays 'overwhelmingly' have been sexually abused as children and have alcoholic or drug-addicted parents is LUDICROUS! No serious and sober scholar would give any credence to such absurd and wild allegations.

 

I can only say that of the many gays I have known and do know in my life - virtually none fit into these prejudice-generated categories. They are baseless sweeping generalisations. Utterly ridiculous. Might just as well say: 'Most heterosexual men are known to be murderers and rapists and have alcoholic fathers and prostitute mothers'. Why not? It is little more ludicrous than the claims made above about gays.