Thai Wagyu Beef in Kap Choeng/Surin.

[khwaibah]

The ramrod of the operation is taged up with many FB&line groups. The below photos are what she calls "Sweet Israel Grass". I am told it has 20% protein and it came from her source out of Kalasin. She and her group had about 80 kilos of the grass stock sent to them. As you can tell see is cutting the root stock off for replanting. This gras is about 6 weeks old. Any info would be appreciated.

 

[kickstart]

Sweet Israel Grass, that is a new one to me, a look at Google nothing like this in the photos come up, has the name from Thai into English been lost in translation? can you type the name in Thai, or do as I have done type the name in Thai into Thai Google, normal it will give you the botanical  name  in English, and you can go from there,

Looking at at that grass it  looks like Nappier  Packchon or Elephant Grass, both have the same  botanical name ,but they are slightly different, if it is the protein will not be 20 %, no more than 9-10 %, that sample looks like a young grass cattle will  like that .

[khwaibah]

13 minutes ago, kickstart said:

Sweet Israel Grass, that is a new one to me, a look at Google nothing like this in the photos come up, has the name from Thai into English been lost in translation? can you type the name in Thai, or do as I have done type the name in Thai into Thai Google, normal it will give you the botanical  name  in English, and you can go from there,

Looking at at that grass it  looks like Nappier  Packchon or Elephant Grass, both have the same  botanical name ,but they are slightly different, if it is the protein will not be 20 %, no more than 9-10 %, that sample looks like a young grass cattle will  like that .

Thats what the wife calls it. I tend to believe its a Nappier grass very strong relations.

[CLW]

Do the bespoken crossbreeds have horns?

Are there horn less beef cattle breeding lines available in Thailand?

[khwaibah]

26 minutes ago, CLW said:

Do the bespoken crossbreeds have horns?

Are there horn less beef cattle breeding lines available in Thailand?

 

Some do and some don't.

[colinneil]

 

 

 

Sweet Israel grass is nappier grass, as the name suggests it is a strain from Israel.

My wife is growing some, grows well, looks good.

She bought it from a farm at Khonkaen.

[CLW]

 
 
 
Sweet Israel grass is nappier grass, as the name suggests it is a strain from Israel.
My wife is growing some, grows well, looks good.
She bought it from a farm at Khonkaen.

I not doubt that but this is absolutely new to me.
Looking forward to get more information.

[khwaibah]

21 hours ago, colinneil said:

 

 

 

Sweet Israel grass is nappier grass, as the name suggests it is a strain from Israel.

My wife is growing some, grows well, looks good.

She bought it from a farm at Khonkaen.

 Thanks for your insight. My wife bought hers out of Kalasin. My research is showing me that the Israeli Agriculture Ministry was invited by the Thai Embassy from Tel Aviv for a visit to Thailand in 2012 and that visit was to the isaan area and this is pretty much where the sweet israeli grass was brought in. 

[kickstart]

23 hours ago, CLW said:

Do the bespoken crossbreeds have horns?

Are there horn less beef cattle breeding lines available in Thailand?

2

Do crossbreeds have horns,yes and no ,depends on the breed this photo is of Mum and dauter,mum is a Simental xFresainx Brahmaen Indo brazil ,she has no horns ,the Simentail from her mother was polled, (natraly haveing no horns ) ,her dauter is a Brangus,Angus xBrahman ,almost 10 months old she has no horns ,the Angus is a natraly polled breed ,so this heiffer has no horns ,this is her 6th calf, her past calves ,a Droughtmaster polled ,the Charalia and Brahman's calves had horns ,an Angus' calf was polled .

We have other Brangus cattle and they have horns, we have Brangus heifer 15 months old horns are they but not showing, will be no more than 4-5 inches long when she has grown up.

In the farm photos Slugs11 photo of  his Braford, cow, and calf, they will not have horns, Bradford is a Hereford x Brahman, the Hereford breed being naturally polled, but some bloodlines do have horns

So, it all depends on  breeding my cow is in calf ,this time to a Brahman, I would say that calf will have horns, as she is only 25% Simmental the naturally polled triant  will not be they the whole time, a sire and dam that are polled the offspring should all be polled.

This year we will have a Beefmaster x Brangus calf that should be polled, they are some polled Beefmaster breeds, not certain if mine is one, the main thing I looked at was an easy calving  breed 

As you have worked out, polled cattle are available in Thailand, the crossbreeds are all Europen or USA  breeds. 

[CLW]

Do crossbreeds have horns,yes and no ,depends on the breed this photo is of Mum and dauter,mum is a Simental xFresainx Brahmaen Indo brazil ,she has no horns ,the Simentail from her mother was polled, (natraly haveing no horns ) ,her dauter is a Brangus,Angus xBrahman ,almost 10 months old she has no horns ,the Angus is a natraly polled breed ,so this heiffer has no horns ,this is her 6th calf, her past calves ,a Droughtmaster polled ,the Charalia and Brahman's calves had horns ,an Angus' calf was polled .
We have other Brangus cattle and they have horns, we have Brangus heifer 15 months old horns are they but not showing, will be no more than 4-5 inches long when she has grown up.
In the farm photos Slugs11 photo of  his Braford, cow, and calf, they will not have horns, Bradford is a Hereford x Brahman, the Hereford breed being naturally polled, but some bloodlines do have horns
So, it all depends on  breeding my cow is in calf ,this time to a Brahman, I would say that calf will have horns, as she is only 25% Simmental the naturally polled triant  will not be they the whole time, a sire and dam that are polled the offspring should all be polled.
This year we will have a Beefmaster x Brangus calf that should be polled, they are some polled Beefmaster breeds, not certain if mine is one, the main thing I looked at was an easy calving  breed 
As you have worked out, polled cattle are available in Thailand, the crossbreeds are all Europen or USA  breeds. 

Thanks KS. Great information as always. I just could find out from the internet that the no horn trait is dominant. Therefore if you cross a no horn bull with a regular cow it should be horn less, right? At least in the first generation. And than I followed your description that the trait is segregating as usual in genetics.

[kickstart]

25 minutes ago, CLW said:

30 minutes ago, kickstart said:

Do crossbreeds have horns,yes and no ,depends on the breed this photo is of Mum and dauter,mum is a Simental xFresainx Brahmaen Indo brazil ,she has no horns ,the Simentail from her mother was polled, (natraly haveing no horns ) ,her dauter is a Brangus,Angus xBrahman ,almost 10 months old she has no horns ,the Angus is a natraly polled breed ,so this heiffer has no horns ,this is her 6th calf, her past calves ,a Droughtmaster polled ,the Charalia and Brahman's calves had horns ,an Angus' calf was polled .
We have other Brangus cattle and they have horns, we have Brangus heifer 15 months old horns are they but not showing, will be no more than 4-5 inches long when she has grown up.
In the farm photos Slugs11 photo of  his Braford, cow, and calf, they will not have horns, Bradford is a Hereford x Brahman, the Hereford breed being naturally polled, but some bloodlines do have horns
So, it all depends on  breeding my cow is in calf ,this time to a Brahman, I would say that calf will have horns, as she is only 25% Simmental the naturally polled triant  will not be they the whole time, a sire and dam that are polled the offspring should all be polled.
This year we will have a Beefmaster x Brangus calf that should be polled, they are some polled Beefmaster breeds, not certain if mine is one, the main thing I looked at was an easy calving  breed 
As you have worked out, polled cattle are available in Thailand, the crossbreeds are all Europen or USA  breeds. 

Thanks KS. Great information as always. I just could find out from the internet that the no horn trait is dominant. Therefore if you cross a no horn bull with a regular cow it should be horn less, right? At least in the first generation. And than I followed your description that the trait is segregating as usual in genetics.

 

28 minutes ago, CLW said:

32 minutes ago, kickstart said:

Do crossbreeds have horns,yes and no ,depends on the breed this photo is of Mum and dauter,mum is a Simental xFresainx Brahmaen Indo brazil ,she has no horns ,the Simentail from her mother was polled, (natraly haveing no horns ) ,her dauter is a Brangus,Angus xBrahman ,almost 10 months old she has no horns ,the Angus is a natraly polled breed ,so this heiffer has no horns ,this is her 6th calf, her past calves ,a Droughtmaster polled ,the Charalia and Brahman's calves had horns ,an Angus' calf was polled .
We have other Brangus cattle and they have horns, we have Brangus heifer 15 months old horns are they but not showing, will be no more than 4-5 inches long when she has grown up.
In the farm photos Slugs11 photo of  his Braford, cow, and calf, they will not have horns, Bradford is a Hereford x Brahman, the Hereford breed being naturally polled, but some bloodlines do have horns
So, it all depends on  breeding my cow is in calf ,this time to a Brahman, I would say that calf will have horns, as she is only 25% Simmental the naturally polled triant  will not be they the whole time, a sire and dam that are polled the offspring should all be polled.
This year we will have a Beefmaster x Brangus calf that should be polled, they are some polled Beefmaster breeds, not certain if mine is one, the main thing I looked at was an easy calving  breed 
As you have worked out, polled cattle are available in Thailand, the crossbreeds are all Europen or USA  breeds. 

Thanks KS. Great information as always. I just could find out from the internet that the no horn trait is dominant. Therefore if you cross a no horn bull with a regular cow it should be horn less, right? At least in the first generation. And than I followed your description that the trait is segregating as usual in genetics.

Could not have put it better myself,my Native Thai cow has a bull   about the same age, same sire ,he has horns ,but he will be only 33% Angus ,breeds being Thai native, Angus, Brahman, the trait is not they ,but if he served an Angus cow it would be 83% Angus the trait would be they .

Talk of trait's the Brangus breed is all black ,black is a dominant color in breeding, why she is this colour I do not know, except his grandfather mum's sire  was red, or the Brangus semen come from SK farm Pattaya ,one of they own bulls ,they are in to Red Brahmans ,his other grandfather could have been a Red Brahman ,but the leggy Indo Brazil, has come out in her 

[kickstart]

2 hours ago, khwaibah said:

 Thanks for your insight. My wife bought hers out of Kalasin. My research is showing me that the Israeli Agriculture Ministry was invited by the Thai Embassy from Tel Aviv for a visit to Thailand in 2012 and that visit was to the isaan area and this is pretty much where the sweet israeli grass was brought in. 

 

 

What bit I know of Israeli farming it is intensive, lot of irrigated crops. 

Let's see how this grass grows on poor Issan soil without a lot of inputs.

 

[colinneil]

16 minutes ago, kickstart said:

 

 

What bit I know of Israeli farming it is intensive, lot of irrigated crops. 

Let's see how this grass grows on poor Issan soil without a lot of inputs.

 

The plot my wife has planted is growing well, before the area had turkeys on it for just over 1 year, no other fertilizer has been applied.

[khwaibah]

10 hours ago, kickstart said:

 

 

What bit I know of Israeli farming it is intensive, lot of irrigated crops. 

Let's see how this grass grows on poor Issan soil without a lot of inputs.

 

Growing like a weed on ours and others.

[kickstart]

4 hours ago, khwaibah said:

Growing like a weed on ours and others.

Maybe growing well now ,see what it is like when 2-3 cuts are taken, and it has exhausted  all the nutrients available, and if we have a wet year or a lot of sudden rain and it gets waterlogged will it still grow, think this time next year.

Still, think some urea will be needed to keep it going.

[khwaibah]

55 minutes ago, kickstart said:

Maybe growing well now ,see what it is like when 2-3 cuts are taken, and it has exhausted  all the nutrients available, and if we have a wet year or a lot of sudden rain and it gets waterlogged will it still grow, think this time next year.

Still, think some urea will be needed to keep it going.

 

and that we have.

 

[CLW]

Interesting video

[khwaibah]

Great progress today. All the corral is gone at the east end. 15 each  10 wheelers of dirt has been delivered and most spread out. 9 new uprights with concrete base have been set and roof removal over the feed area has been removed.Had 15 volunteers on site. May have some photos in a day or two.

Edited May 14, 2018 by khwaibah

[khwaibah]

Across from the hospital on the 214 highway on your right as you are coming into Kap Choeng and heading toward SI is the Department of Livestock and the Department of Agriculture. Signs are Thai. There are some food stalls along the highway BUT they are all going to go by by for the highway upgrade. COWS R US just helped a couple move sooner. There is a new corral like appearance and gravel parking along with a proper shop that is selling Wagyu Beef. 

 

[khwaibah]

First new born. Calf.

 

[khwaibah]

Dinner time.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by khwaibah

[khwaibah]

Joe from the thread Bought 12 Cows  

a visit to us in Kap Choeng. Great guy and a great family. I shall pick up where he left off as I do not like to hy-jack another thread.

 

Yesterday I was in Kap Choeng and went to the new beef shop (opposite hospital)set up by Surin wholesalers.

The lady was very helpful with information but her knowledge was minimal of what she was selling. She told us that it was Angus from Charolaise/Brahman cows ( ???????) something to do with Australia she said... Same as picture on her sign board.... It was 280bht per kg for tenderloin... we bought, some plus another undistiguishable cut below

 

The colour looked like pork or veal..... Took it home for dinner......the tenderloin was a bit tough and tasteless and the other was not actually edible for me. I would need to still be chewing now.... I thought wow people are buying this at 280 bht per kg.

My family members said they thought it was local cow or roadside as I call it.. Anyway, I would not buy it again even at half that price...... I think selling good cuts of decent beef is definitely a good market opportunity...

 

I 200 % agree that meat looks like something the dog drug in. This photo has been shown and my comments made about the quality. It has been confirmed that the beef was local BUT not from the KC project. The project beef is about 2 years away by my estimation. Items noted, new barn roofing extension are going in for added protection from the weather.. All heifers are now in their respective corrals, 85, Twelve of these first have now been inseminated by the DL. 

[kickstart]

2 hours ago, khwaibah said:

Joe from the thread Bought 12 Cows  

a visit to us in Kap Choeng. Great guy and a great family. I shall pick up where he left off as I do not like to hy-jack another thread.

 

Yesterday I was in Kap Choeng and went to the new beef shop (opposite hospital)set up by Surin wholesalers.

The lady was very helpful with information but her knowledge was minimal of what she was selling. She told us that it was Angus from Charolaise/Brahman cows ( ???????) something to do with Australia she said... Same as picture on her sign board.... It was 280bht per kg for tenderloin... we bought, some plus another undistiguishable cut below

 

The colour looked like pork or veal..... Took it home for dinner......the tenderloin was a bit tough and tasteless and the other was not actually edible for me. I would need to still be chewing now.... I thought wow people are buying this at 280 bht per kg.

My family members said they thought it was local cow or roadside as I call it.. Anyway, I would not buy it again even at half that price...... I think selling good cuts of decent beef is definitely a good market opportunity...

 

I 200 % agree that meat looks like something the dog drug in. This photo has been shown and my comments made about the quality. It has been confirmed that the beef was local BUT not from the KC project. The project beef is about 2 years away by my estimation. Items noted, new barn roofing extension are going in for added protection from the weather.. All heifers are now in their respective corrals, 85, Twelve of these first have now been inseminated by the DL. 

11

I thought you were going for Wagyu beef, but you are using Brahman semen on these heifers if they is any Wagya blood in these heifers, they will be even less with a Brahman bull, that is what you are using, like the last 3 you had served 

Looking at some of the heifers a bit on the thin side, conception rate will not be that high, see what the conception rate will be when the vet does the PD's pregnancy diagnose at 2-3 months.

[khwaibah]

11 hours ago, kickstart said:

I thought you were going for Wagyu beef, but you are using Brahman semen on these heifers if they is any Wagya blood in these heifers, they will be even less with a Brahman bull, that is what you are using, like the last 3 you had served 

Looking at some of the heifers a bit on the thin side, conception rate will not be that high, see what the conception rate will be when the vet does the PD's pregnancy diagnose at 2-3 months.

You can direct your questions to the Department of Livestock.

[khwaibah]

11 hours ago, kickstart said:

I thought you were going for Wagyu beef, but you are using Brahman semen on these heifers if they is any Wagya blood in these heifers, they will be even less with a Brahman bull, that is what you are using, like the last 3 you had served 

Looking at some of the heifers a bit on the thin side, conception rate will not be that high, see what the conception rate will be when the vet does the PD's pregnancy diagnose at 2-3 months.

This is a Thai Government Project. Funded and Operated by them. The advice and questions you are suggesting need to be directed at the Department of Livestock. What I can say is the Department of Livestock in Kap Choeng wants to develop other projects locally. They require 50 people to sign up as thats the size of the heard they get. The DL has turned down two groups of locals that only had 30 each. This is a long term project and ongoing educational training for the local. The DL has its own vet and their staff to assist.

[kickstart]

Hi All

         I got a PM from a guy in Singapore, about selling Alfalfa hay in Thailand, anyway he also  wrote about a nappier grass verity called Dwarf Nappier,grows about 4ft tall ,he was interested in this verity, so he sent some to a Lab in New York state for analysis, and the results he said 21% protein, which at first he did not believe ,so he had it tested again, 21% protein, 24%  DM , dry matter. 

Now a grass verity with a protein of 21% is something special, most grass verities are no more than 10-12 % protein, I think Michal Hare said one of his grasses has a protein of 15 %.

So, Khwaibah said this Sweet Israel Grass has a protein of 20 %, is this the same grass as this Dwarf Nappier, but a different name?

Dwarf Nappier as I said grows to a height of 4 foot, a lot shorter than  Nappier Packchon, a high leaf to stem ratio cattle will eat more and waist less.

Anyone growing it any problems, with all the rain and floods how does it grow in wet fields, Khwaibah said it grows like weeds, do cattle like it, a photo of it growing would be good.

The guy in Singapore said his company found it growing well

in Indonesia, on land that has a lot of volcanic ash, fertile land, a bit different from poor Issan land. 

[khwaibah]

3 hours ago, kickstart said:

Hi All

         I got a PM from a guy in Singapore, about selling Alfalfa hay in Thailand, anyway he also  wrote about a nappier grass verity called Dwarf Nappier,grows about 4ft tall ,he was interested in this verity, so he sent some to a Lab in New York state for analysis, and the results he said 21% protein, which at first he did not believe ,so he had it tested again, 21% protein, 24%  DM , dry matter. 

Now a grass verity with a protein of 21% is something special, most grass verities are no more than 10-12 % protein, I think Michal Hare said one of his grasses has a protein of 15 %.

So, Khwaibah said this Sweet Israel Grass has a protein of 20 %, is this the same grass as this Dwarf Nappier, but a different name?

Dwarf Nappier as I said grows to a height of 4 foot, a lot shorter than  Nappier Packchon, a high leaf to stem ratio cattle will eat more and waist less.

Anyone growing it any problems, with all the rain and floods how does it grow in wet fields, Khwaibah said it grows like weeds, do cattle like it, a photo of it growing would be good.

The guy in Singapore said his company found it growing well

in Indonesia, on land that has a lot of volcanic ash, fertile land, a bit different from poor Issan land. 

 

I can't say if its the same but for info.. the project is up to over 450 head spread out over 3  barns in a 5 km radius. Just on the wife project they have about 40 rai in Nappier grass and looking to plant more. Also there was a large gathering today at the Surin DLD just north of Prasat.

[CLW]

Hi All
         I got a PM from a guy in Singapore, about selling Alfalfa hay in Thailand, anyway he also  wrote about a nappier grass verity called Dwarf Nappier,grows about 4ft tall ,he was interested in this verity, so he sent some to a Lab in New York state for analysis, and the results he said 21% protein, which at first he did not believe ,so he had it tested again, 21% protein, 24%  DM , dry matter. 
Now a grass verity with a protein of 21% is something special, most grass verities are no more than 10-12 % protein, I think Michal Hare said one of his grasses has a protein of 15 %.
So, Khwaibah said this Sweet Israel Grass has a protein of 20 %, is this the same grass as this Dwarf Nappier, but a different name?
Dwarf Nappier as I said grows to a height of 4 foot, a lot shorter than  Nappier Packchon, a high leaf to stem ratio cattle will eat more and waist less.
Anyone growing it any problems, with all the rain and floods how does it grow in wet fields, Khwaibah said it grows like weeds, do cattle like it, a photo of it growing would be good.
The guy in Singapore said his company found it growing well
in Indonesia, on land that has a lot of volcanic ash, fertile land, a bit different from poor Issan land. 

Probably this dwarf napier is the variety / cultivar Muaklek.

But doesn't it also depend on the soil and fertiliser how high the protein content will be?

[kickstart]

3 hours ago, CLW said:

Probably this dwarf napier is the variety / cultivar Muaklek.

But doesn't it also depend on the soil and fertiliser how high the protein content will be?

The Muaklec Nappier is Packchon  II ,  so I was told was  partly developed at the government research station  at Packchon ,in Korat province ,not so far from the DPO .the DPO  at Mortlec are now growing it to feed to they cows, last time I was they some of  it was 3 meters tall well past its sell-by date, hardly a dwarf verity, just pity the poor cows having to eat/digest the stuff, it is chopped by a forage harvester .

Good point about soil and fertility, this guy, said   he found it growing in Indonesia, growing on volcanic ash land, and I would say the locals they could be like our farmers a bit tight on using urea fertilizer, relying on natural fertility,

but they might take some advice and cut the crop at a young stage, 40-45 days, the protein will be high and being dwarf the leaf to stem ratio will be good, all the feed value is in the leaves, not the stem.

Taking this point into consideration I would say it would be a better grass than our  Nappier, which has more stem than leaf as it grows old.

Even if the protein was say 12-15% growing on our soils, still a lot better than the 6-8% protein (if that), a lot of our Nappier is at when fed to cattle.  I am just trying to find out how this grass is growing on our soils. 

[CLW]

The Muaklec Nappier is Packchon  II ,  so I was told was  partly developed at the government research station  at Packchon ,in Korat province ,not so far from the DPO .the DPO  at Mortlec are now growing it to feed to they cows, last time I was they some of  it was 3 meters tall well past its sell-by date, hardly a dwarf verity, just pity the poor cows having to eat/digest the stuff, it is chopped by a forage harvester .
Good point about soil and fertility, this guy, said   he found it growing in Indonesia, growing on volcanic ash land, and I would say the locals they could be like our farmers a bit tight on using urea fertilizer, relying on natural fertility,
but they might take some advice and cut the crop at a young stage, 40-45 days, the protein will be high and being dwarf the leaf to stem ratio will be good, all the feed value is in the leaves, not the stem.
Taking this point into consideration I would say it would be a better grass than our  Nappier, which has more stem than leaf as it grows old.
Even if the protein was say 12-15% growing on our soils, still a lot better than the 6-8% protein (if that), a lot of our Nappier is at when fed to cattle.  I am just trying to find out how this grass is growing on our soils. 

Yeah the old Thai problem mass over nutrients.

I attached a link that could be dwarf napier. Anyway it should be cut at this stage for best nutritional value.

https://goo.gl/images/JT6gdL/URL]