Court Forest Homes: Govt Asks Netizens For Solutions

[webfact]

Court Forest Homes: Govt Asks Netizens For Solutions

By Teeranai Charuvastra, Staff Reporter

 

Image: ThaigovSpokesman / Facebook

 

BANGKOK — After claiming he had run out of ideas on what to do with judges’ forest dachas under construction on a northern mountain, junta chairman Prayuth Chan-ocha turned to the internet.

 

In an online post published Tuesday afternoon, an official Facebook page of the Government House asked netizens to comment what the regime should doto solve the controversy. Protesters in the north called on Prayuth to demolish the project entirely, but court officials maintain they need the villas, which perch on the picturesque Doi Suthep, as their homes.

 

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2018/05/01/court-forest-homes-govt-asks-netizens-for-solutions/

 

-- © Copyright Khaosod English 2018-05-01

[cornishcarlos]

Easy...

Remove the ban on political activity.

Stop harassing anyone that doesn't agree with you.

Call an election.

Do not try to compete in the election.

Let a democratically elected government sort the issue out.

Then disappear over the horizon, never to be seen or heard from again.

 

Done

[jonclark]

"but court officials maintain they need the villas, which perch on the picturesque Doi Suthep, as their homes"

 

What too poor to buy your own?? Jog on mate. 

[YetAnother]

29 minutes ago, webfact said:

After claiming he had run out of ideas on what to do with judges’ forest dachas under construction on a northern mountain, junta chairman Prayuth Chan-ocha turned to the internet.

After all the bad decisions he has made in the past 4 years ,now he cannot make a decision

[Just1Voice]

This has become a very unpleasant boondoggle for the General.  One he better tread very carefully with. 

 

 

 

[Tilacme]

Everything crossing the forest tree line to be demolished and replanted.

[smutcakes]

I want to know who the contractors were.

 

If the judges absolutely need to have housing as part of their perks, then i am sure there are many less controversial places for them to be built.

 

All those who were involved in the projects approval regardless of political affiliation should be sacked for negligence and blasted into orbit. Even a kindergarten kid would know that this type of largesse is just vulgar and unnecessary. 

 

I would say the first things the judiciary should do instead of worrying about their housing is to adjust the relevant laws that allowed this to happen. (fat chance of that happening)

 

Would be interesting to get some internal photos to see if internally they have been fitted out specifically to the individual judges specifications.

[Megasin1]

well, he can listen to the people, or not listen to the people, i think personally he will select the latter option

but this one doesn't look like its going to go away easily

 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Everything crossing the forest tree line to be demolished and replanted.

What forest tree line? It is not in a National Park it is denuded forest developed legally. There needs a to be a certain concept introduced to the Thai Kingdom, called ZONING. Sometimes public land IS sold off to developers when it concurs with the public interest. Yes this should be decided democratically.

I would be interested in selling off my current holdings for a Hillside condo retreat with city lights view and would pay a premium for it.
Is it better to have clogged creeks and sick trees ? Other areas could be re-forested in equal area in another zone. Think different folks!

[midas]

20 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

What forest tree line? It is not in a National Park it is denuded forest developed legally. There needs a to be a certain concept introduced to the Thai Kingdom, called ZONING. Sometimes public land IS sold off to developers when it concurs with the public interest. Yes this should be decided democratically.

I would be interested in selling off my current holdings for a Hillside condo retreat with city lights view and would pay a premium for it.
Is it better to have clogged creeks and sick trees ? Other areas could be re-forested in equal area in another zone. Think different folks!

 

Yes but you are not Thai so clearly you cannot think the same way?
Another zone as you put it isn't comparable because it wouldn't have the same proximity to the sacred temple on the top of the mountain.

Edited May 1, 2018 by midas

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Take down the Zoo and the Night Safari then.
I have been in Chiang Mai longer than you think this is just politically displaced anger.

How was it not noticed for so long? I cycled in front of the gates of this complex for a couple years, no idea what was going on up there.

[Tilacme]

18 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

What forest tree line? It is not in a National Park it is denuded forest developed legally. There needs a to be a certain concept introduced to the Thai Kingdom, called ZONING. Sometimes public land IS sold off to developers when it concurs with the public interest. Yes this should be decided democratically.

I would be interested in selling off my current holdings for a Hillside condo retreat with city lights view and would pay a premium for it.
Is it better to have clogged creeks and sick trees ? Other areas could be re-forested in equal area in another zone. Think different folks!

A 4 year old could draw the natural tree line on the aerial photo provided. Think babes and little children folks.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Of course the first cut looks ugly but just imagine if funds accumulated from ten plots on each side developed and sold to rich investors in each side were used for “environmental” Purposes?

 

Reduction of burning, development of public transportation and better roads? Protection of native animals. Thailand North is big. There is plenty of room for nature, and only Capital can protect it. Not leftist agitation and anger.

 

[greenchair]

There is not anything illegal about the construction. It's not part of the reserve. 

It's none of these people's business. I just don't understand why the boss is putting up with this bs. 

[rkidlad]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

There is not anything illegal about the construction. It's not part of the reserve. 

It's none of these people's business. I just don't understand why the boss is putting up with this bs. 

Because when ‘the boss’ is up against anything even resembling a formidable opponent, he doesn’t know how to lead. He knows how to bark orders. He doesn’t know how to make important decisions. Heaven forbid the thought of any country invading while he was a general. 

[SABloke]

3 hours ago, Megasin1 said:

well, he can listen to the people, or not listen to the people, i think personally he will select the latter option

but this one doesn't look like its going to go away easily

 

In the same way Rajabhakti Park didn't look like it would go away easily? Or his brother pulling 105k a month for being a member of parliament but only joining 1.5% of required meetings? Or his nephew getting a building contract for  hundreds of millions despite having a company worth only 1 million plus? Or Prawit being caught red handed with more watches the Big P has morals? Or the stolen historic plaque? Or the recording of him not wanting a group of candidates - then denying it was him - but said candidates got mysteriously discarded anyway? Or...

 

My point is: you are not the first person the dub something as the "final straw" and/or "not gonna be swept under the rug and forgotten". Hasn't happened so far...and probably won't. Not only does he hold all the cards, he owns the card factory, and publishes the annual card rules book.

Edited May 1, 2018 by SABloke

[KiwiKiwi]

10 minutes ago, SABloke said:

In the same way Rajabhakti Park didn't look like it would go away easily? Or his brother pulling 105k a month for being a member of parliament but only joining 1.5% of required meetings? Or his nephew getting a building contract for  hundreds of millions despite having a company worth only 1 million plus? Or Prawit being caught red handed with more watches the Big P has morals? Or the stolen historic plaque? Or the recording of him not wanting a group of candidates - then denying it was him - but said candidates got mysteriously discarded anyway? Or...

 

My point is: you are not the first person the dub something as the "final straw" and/or "not gonna be swept under the rug and forgotten". Hasn't happened so far...and probably won't. Not only does he hold all the cards, he owns the card factory, and publishes the annual card rules book.

Yep. Spot on.

 

Many people have predicted what would happen according to what would happen in the land we come from, and have been wrong for that reason (same as I have been).

 

Thais are not the same and they still function within a very primitive  assessment of what is right and proper.

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[greenchair]

11 hours ago, rkidlad said:

Because when ‘the boss’ is up against anything even resembling a formidable opponent, he doesn’t know how to lead. He knows how to bark orders. He doesn’t know how to make important decisions. Heaven forbid the thought of any country invading while he was a general. 

A bit off topic don't you think? 

What is your opinion about my comment that there is nothing illegal about the construction or the land that it is on? 

If there were anything illegal, then it could all be sorted at the court. They should have protested many years ago. They are trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted. 

[baboon]

16 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

This has become a very unpleasant boondoggle for the General.  One he better tread very carefully with. 

Alienate the judges or alienate an awful lot of voters - he loses either way. What a shame...

[smutcakes]

14 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Of course the first cut looks ugly but just imagine if funds accumulated from ten plots on each side developed and sold to rich investors in each side were used for “environmental” Purposes?

 

Reduction of burning, development of public transportation and better roads? Protection of native animals. Thailand North is big. There is plenty of room for nature, and only Capital can protect it. Not leftist agitation and anger.

 

As you say yourself the north is big, so why the need to cut down forest for this when there is plenty more suitable land available.

[cmsally]

The army has been trying to find a legal solution to this for some time but has come up with nothing. Mostly when a "visible stalemate" such as this has been reached, it is because someone is willing to chuck a large piece of dirt at them which they don't want to come out as an open projectile.

Saying that this should be left because there is a lot of green space left , is rather worrying in that the army control a lot of Thailands green space. One of the main arguments centres around the transfer of land between state enterprises and as to where the accountability lies (if there is any!).

There are many cases of state vs Joe Somchai  in cases such as this and state seems to win.

Court rules in favour of National Parks Dept in Kaeng Krachan encroachment case

 

Bonanza Khao Yai resort faces demolition for encroachment of Khao Yai national park

 

Serious Targeting of Doi Suthep-Pui Encroachment

 

There is an unspoken understanding that the reclamation of land by the authorities (which at present = army) guarantees the protection of land/forest from development. Any enforcement of eviction seems to be done under the auspices of illegal development , encroachment vs conservation and environment

 

The case we see at present just highlights the fact that state/govt see themselves as being above the normal rules and regulations. All these reclamations and evictions that they have carried out on the back of "conservation" would seen to be a farce in that they are not worthy to be caretakers of the land. The case sets a dangerous precedent in that any state controlled land can be transferred inter departmentally without accountability and also any legitimate evictions in the future could be fought under the auspices of state entities cannot be trusted with land that should be protected.

 

 

[cmsally]

30 minutes ago, baboon said:

Alienate the judges or alienate an awful lot of voters - he loses either way. What a shame...

I don't agree, he has already succeeded with the latter and he pays the former's salaries so no problem there.

Definitely something bigger in the pot.

[Eric Loh]

17 hours ago, webfact said:

In an online post published Tuesday afternoon, an official Facebook page of the Government House asked netizens to comment what the regime should doto solve the controversy.

Why even bother when the previous online poll by his close buxom buddy and deputy was ignored and flushed down his toilet bowl when the netizen responses were negative.  

[jippytum]

This developement in a sensatve area should have had some sort of public enquiry before the work started .Public opinion will prevail 

[rkidlad]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

A bit off topic don't you think? 

What is your opinion about my comment that there is nothing illegal about the construction or the land that it is on? 

If there were anything illegal, then it could all be sorted at the court. They should have protested many years ago. They are trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted. 

Not off topic at all. You said you don’t understand why the boss is putting up with this bs. I explained why. Simples. 

[klauskunkel]

Yesterday the PM needed "help to think". Today that help translated into "Govt Asks Netizens For Solutions". 

Looks like the PM is on an inactive post.

[greenchair]

Why are they protesting now? 

Why didn't they protest before millions of baht of public money was spent? 

It's just a stupid time to start. 

[Srikcir]

16 hours ago, greenchair said:

There is not anything illegal about the construction.

The Public has been given very little information about this development to say there is not anything illegal. The courts basic argument supporting the legality of the development is that the government received legal title and the property is not in a designated protected national forest boundary.

 

But such affirmations do not represent the totality of applicable laws.

For example, there are environmental laws and government procurement laws. They apply to the government as well as the former to private endeavors. In the case of the Doi Suthep development, it is the government's duty to assure that there is compliance with both areas of laws (if not other areas) to protect the interests of the Thai people. 

 

Environmental laws - The military as essentially a private party in the transfer of property to the courts stated that the court planned development was environmentally acceptable according to the military's own evaluation. Who cares what a third party believes? The government's responsibility is not waived by the actions of a third party nor even by the actions of any governmental agency. The government had a legal responsibility to hold public hearings and to issue an environmental impact report. Should the public not be satisfied with the findings, ie., no impact, the public has the right to contest the government's findings (ahem) in court. This was the very same process followed recently regarding Egat's proposed Krabi coal-fired power plant. I believe that not only were Thailand's environmental laws were violated with approval of the Doi Suthep development, but the constitution itself was violated. The fact that court officials are on record with personal comments (vs judicial rulings) regarding the development's legality are not only irresponsible as members of the judiciary but violate the separation of the judicial system as a check and balance against government abuse.

 

Procurement laws - As Smutcakes in Post #7 commented, "I want to know who the contractors were."

EXACTLY. There has been no disclosure as to the government procurement process used to select a contractor (not even the contractor's name) and the reasonableness of the cost. This has the stench of corruption. Given that the present government already has a conflict of interest with the military, the junta and the judiciary, the public should demand full disclosure. Where are all the government anti-corruption agencies supposedly on guard for government corruption? Are they waiting for a whistle blower to embarrass them into action? Prayut as PM has in effect created national conflict and confusion over this development that puts him in violation of the constitution (Section 265?).

Prayut has two choices:

1. invoke Article 44 to bypass applicable laws
2. comply with the applicable laws

Prayut asking for a solution from the public is not only disingenuous but a concession of his role as PM. And he wants to be elected the next PM?

 

[baboon]

4 hours ago, cmsally said:

I don't agree, he has already succeeded with the latter and he pays the former's salaries so no problem there.

Definitely something bigger in the pot.

He may pay the judges' salaries but that does not mean they couldn't cause him enormous headaches by ruling against him. I don't see that they have allegiance to him personally and what could he do: sack them en masse? 

 

Yes he has alienated a good number of people up there, but never underestimate the power of collective amnesia, which is what he will be counting on. Look at how he is trying to reinvent himself as a politician. Yes, you and I know he is nothing but a bullyboy and a despot but these makeovers do have an effect. 

 

I stand by my original statement...

Edited May 2, 2018 by baboon

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

The Public has been given very little information about this development to say there is not anything illegal. The courts basic argument supporting the legality of the development is that the government received legal title and the property is not in a designated protected national forest boundary.

 

But such affirmations do not represent the totality of applicable laws.

For example, there are environmental laws and government procurement laws. They apply to the government as well as the former to private endeavors. In the case of the Doi Suthep development, it is the government's duty to assure that there is compliance with both areas of laws (if not other areas) to protect the interests of the Thai people. 

 

Environmental laws - The military as essentially a private party in the transfer of property to the courts stated that the court planned development was environmentally acceptable according to the military's own evaluation. Who cares what a third party believes? The government's responsibility is not waived by the actions of a third party nor even by the actions of any governmental agency. The government had a legal responsibility to hold public hearings and to issue an environmental impact report. Should the public not be satisfied with the findings, ie., no impact, the public has the right to contest the government's findings (ahem) in court. This was the very same process followed recently regarding Egat's proposed Krabi coal-fired power plant. I believe that not only were Thailand's environmental laws were violated with approval of the Doi Suthep development, but the constitution itself was violated. The fact that court officials are on record with personal comments (vs judicial rulings) regarding the development's legality are not only irresponsible as members of the judiciary but violate the separation of the judicial system as a check and balance against government abuse.

 

Procurement laws - As Smutcakes in Post #7 commented, "I want to know who the contractors were."

EXACTLY. There has been no disclosure as to the government procurement process used to select a contractor (not even the contractor's name) and the reasonableness of the cost. This has the stench of corruption. Given that the present government already has a conflict of interest with the military, the junta and the judiciary, the public should demand full disclosure. Where are all the government anti-corruption agencies supposedly on guard for government corruption? Are they waiting for a whistle blower to embarrass them into action? Prayut as PM has in effect created national conflict and confusion over this development that puts him in violation of the constitution (Section 265?).

Prayut has two choices:

1. invoke Article 44 to bypass applicable laws
2. comply with the applicable laws

Prayut asking for a solution from the public is not only disingenuous but a concession of his role as PM. And he wants to be elected the next PM?

 

I agree with everything you say. 

But like the egat proposal. 

All of this haggling should have been done before it was constructed. 

It's ludicrous to bring it all down. The government has offered to donate it for use to the public. 

The judge's offered to regenerate trees and blend the whole area into the forest after construction is finished. Pulling it down is ridiculous. It's not the solution.