So here is the dilemma, if not Thailand then where?

[Jingthing]

27 minutes ago, flagator96 said:

If you have an account of 800K BHT, that is approximately the $25K Mexico requires for the permanent residency process to begin (takes 4 years). If you have $100K you can get it at once. Plus, you DO NOT have to move the funds in Mexico which is much better than Thailand's demands for a local bank acct to get renewals of your retirement extension within Thailand.

Other advantages of Mexico is of course that you will not need 90 day reporting hassles, multiple re-entry permit (legalized extortion) fees, fear of being fined if you do not report to the police your new location even when you travel within Thailand, and all the other problems and hassles that Thailand imposes on us. Also the obvious upside is that at the end of 4 years you can get permanent residency, and you do not have to show the financial means at the final application or ever again! Then you can put an end to all the heavy handed junk that Thailand will be imposing on you for the rest of your life if you choose to stay there. Plus, it is exceedingly difficult to get permanent residency in Thailand just because the country does not want you to have these rights and makes it exceedingly difficult. Finally, just because Colombia made the mistake of canceling it's permanent residency it does not mean that Mexico will do it too. Just some food for thought :)

This is new information to me which I have never seen before about showing investment accounts over 100K getting an immediate permanent residence status. It sounds too good to be true. I will look into that further. Thanks. 

 

I have already found some supporting info about the 100K thing but nothing about 25K over four years working that way. I think the 25K (approx.) is more about income than showing money. 

This 100K thing. Is that relatively new? I hadn't looked into Mexico for quite a while, but not that long, and never saw it before.

 

I do think cost of living in general is higher in Mexico than Thailand. I remember when I was looking at destinations there the city of Merida, Yucatan sounded interesting (but haven't been there yet). I love Puerto Vallarta but I think as a popular beach resort probably too expensive. I'm wondering if Guadalajara is hit by the violence too much. The expat popular Lake Chapala area I found unspeakably BORING. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, Unsane said:

Mexico?  Wouldn't go there on holiday let alone live there.

Have you not been?

Amazing country.

But I do think at this point some places that may have been previously attractive are not anymore.

[Unsane]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

The have qute hairy ladies there, for those who like that. Makes me think of  From Dusk to Down. Loved that movie. Selma Hayek? OFMG.

I love a hairy canary, but still not enough to make me visit.

[Airalee]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This is new information to me which I have never seen before about showing investment accounts over 100K getting an immediate permanent residence status. It sounds too good to be true. I will look into that further. Thanks. 

 

I have already found some supporting info about the 100K thing but nothing about 25K over four years working that way. I think the 25K (approx.) is more about income than showing money. 

This 100K thing. Is that relatively new? I hadn't looked into Mexico for quite a while, but not that long, and never saw it before.

 

I do think cost of living in general is higher in Mexico than Thailand. I remember when I was looking at destinations there the city of Merida, Yucatan sounded interesting (but haven't been there yet). I love Puerto Vallarta but I think as a popular beach resort probably too expensive. I'm wondering if Guadalajara is hit by the violence too much. The expat popular Lake Chapala area I found unspeakably BORING. 

You obviously didn’t click on the link I provided you.

[jerry921]

I'm too young for social security, I retired early with no regular income, just investments. When it comes to getting the permanent residency immediately, your mileage may vary as Mexican authorities are a bit like Thai authorities in so far as being inconsistently trained and inconsistent in understanding and enforcement of the rules. In my case, they said that because I sounded unsure that I wanted to live in Mexico forever, that I should go through the temporary residency (4 year) process.

 

Here is a page from the Mexico embassy in the US detailing the requirements for the RT (residente temporale):

 

https://consulmex2.sre.gob.mx/washington/images/2017/visas/eng/TEMPORARY-RESIDENT-dic.pdf

 

The actual income/asset requirement is set annually in Mexican pesos, and so the actual amount varies with the exchange rate, and you probably need a little extra to keep them happy.

 

If you go the RT route they will only give you one year the first time. At the end of the first year you can renew for one, two or three years. To renew for 3 years based on assets you probably have to show 3 times the one year amount - it's not clear. So $100k should do the trick for 3 years. In my case I showed more because I had it from the sale of my house. And I showed them only a single US bank account.

 

But if you have minimal assets you can just renew for one year at a time and just show them your $26k as long as you have enough other income to live on without running that amount down. That's obviously more hassle than the 1yr-3yr route, but still about equivalent I suppose to getting one year Thai retirement extensions for 4 years. After that you're free of the financial requirements and get the permanent card, good for life.

 

If you can become fluent in Spanish you can get (dual) citizenship after being a permanent resident for a number of years. You don't have to give up your old citizenship.

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, Airalee said:

You obviously didn’t click on the link I provided you.

Yes, I missed that but I wouldn't take IL as a final source on visa matters. Their focus is selling stuff.

 

The show 100K thing one time is looking to me so far to be real but need more details.

 

That's pretty amazing if that would lead to permanent residence.

 

I had pretty much ruled out Mexico when they raised the income requirements before. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, jerry921 said:

I'm too young for social security, I retired early with no regular income, just investments. When it comes to getting the permanent residency immediately, your mileage may vary as Mexican authorities are a bit like Thai authorities in so far as being inconsistently trained and inconsistent in understanding and enforcement of the rules. In my case, they said that because I sounded unsure that I wanted to live in Mexico forever, that I should go through the temporary residency (4 year) process.

 

Here is a page from the Mexico embassy in the US detailing the requirements for the RT (residente temporale):

 

https://consulmex2.sre.gob.mx/washington/images/2017/visas/eng/TEMPORARY-RESIDENT-dic.pdf

 

The actual income/asset requirement is set annually in Mexican pesos, and so the actual amount varies with the exchange rate, and you probably need a little extra to keep them happy.

 

If you go the RT route they will only give you one year the first time. At the end of the first year you can renew for one, two or three years. To renew for 3 years based on assets you probably have to show 3 times the one year amount - it's not clear. So $100k should do the trick for 3 years. In my case I showed more because I had it from the sale of my house. And I showed them only a single US bank account.

 

But if you have minimal assets you can just renew for one year at a time and just show them your $26k as long as you have enough other income to live on without running that amount down. That's obviously more hassle than the 1yr-3yr route, but still about equivalent I suppose to getting one year Thai retirement extensions for 4 years. After that you're free of the financial requirements and get the permanent card, good for life.

 

If you can become fluent in Spanish you can get (dual) citizenship after being a permanent resident for a number of years. You don't have to give up your old citizenship.

Are they asking about INCOME as well if you apply based on showing money? 

My understanding is that this process is started OUTSIDE Mexico. 

If you can show the 100K I don't see a downside (as yet) to just applying for the permanent residence based on that. Avoid the yearly hassles. If you change your mind, you can just leave.

What are the FEES for the show 100K permanent thingie?
Medical screening?

Do they require police record reports (can be a hassle if they need from Thailand)? 

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

List of some "recommended" Mexican choices.

Merida leads the list but it is VERY HOT (and not on the beach).

San Miguel is overly expensive, always sounded like a snob appeal place to me. 

Guanajauto sounds worth checking out (colonial city). 

Interesting they mention Mazatlan. I thought that area has been seriously impacted by the drug violence. Hmm. I do like the ocean there. 

 

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/cheap-places-retire-mexico-62237.html

 

As mentioned on the link, for Americans the idea that you might still be able to be close enough to access Medicare is intriguing as well. Practically not sure how that really works though unless you're more like a part time expat. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Jingthing

[JAZZDOG]

Some years back I traded my sailboat for a house in Barra de Navidad just south of Puerto Vallarta. Really beautiful area and it did well as a weekly rental. Honestly I got bad vibes when I would stay there sometimes weeks at a time during the winter.

I sold it a few years later to a guy from NYC and the next year it got wacked by one of the worst hurricanes in history but came through it well. Presently the area of Jalisco state is at ground zero of the narco wars. Such a shame as the place was sweet but the migrating drug violence makes it a no go for me. Also many issues dealing with the government as far as corruption, A surfing buddy of mine, his brother got shot and killed in a roadside ambush just driving 3 miles from where they were staying to a surf spot. This was back in the eighties and the rest of the crew got away. When they went to the police with the body to report the shooting they were all arrested and held for weeks until their families paid $40K each for their release. Scary then, scary now !

[lkv]

Nobody seems to have mentioned Bali so far.

[jerry921]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Are they asking about INCOME as well if you apply based on showing money? 

My understanding is that this process is started OUTSIDE Mexico. 

If you can show the 100K I don't see a downside (as yet) to just applying for the permanent residence based on that. Avoid the yearly hassles. If you change your mind, you can just leave.

What are the FEES for the show 100K permanent thingie?
Medical screening?

Do they require police record reports (can be a hassle if they need from Thailand)? 

 

I don't think there's a downside to trying for the residente permanente up front, but the consulate I dealt with was reluctant to do that for me, even with plenty of assets shown (I showed them the money from the sale of my house, which I'd fully owned, multiple hundreds of thousands). They apparently like to put you through the 4-year trial before giving you the lifetime thing just to avoid handing out too many of the lifetime things. I also made a try for the permanent one after the first 1 year, which is supposed to be possible, but my local immigration office said no-can-do. They even said I could only get a 1-year extension, but I insisted on applying for the 3 year and that was approved. But all they can do is say no, it didn't cost me anything, they just change a tick-box on the form and give you the temporary one. You don't pay the appropriate fee until they've steered you into the path they're going to approve.

 

It's like Thailand, "YMMV" is the operative rule. But the 4-year plan always works.

 

If you are fluent in Spanish to start with, it may tilt the decision toward granting you permanent right off. Since you (jingthing) have been retired in Thailand for a while, they may decide you're more likely to stay retired in Mexico and give you the permanent visa. It will depend on which consulate you apply at and whether they like you. I ran into a junior employee working as acting consulate while the office was in between real senior people, so she was reluctant to paint outside the lines.

 

It's a two-step process, the step you complete at the Mexican consulate in your home country, and the step you complete at Mexican Immigration office (INM) in your Mexican city after you arrive. There are fees both times. All the numbers go up regularly. The fee at the consulate is $36. The fee at INM is 8008 pesos (under US$450). I've seen the assets required listed as $103k and $110k, so I believe it's $110k and the quote in the link below is old. The 8008 peso fee may be a bit higher too. Once you're approved by the consulate, the INM office won't refuse you.

 

There's no medical check required, and if there's a police background check the consulate does it on their own without telling you.

 

https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/montreal/index.php/en/extranjeros/visas/168-visa-de-residente-permanente

 

 

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

Nobody seems to have mentioned Bali so far.

Is any Muslim country is on the list? Even Bali have muslims as a minority, it is still belonging to a Muslim ruled country. 

 

1 hour ago, lkv said:

Nobody seems to have mentioned Bali so far.

Or Malaysia, they also had a prorgram to attrack more retirements, owning land, and so on 10 years ago. 

 

MM2H Malaysia My 2. Home was a huge investment to be attractive

http://www.mm2h.com/why-retire-in-malaysia/

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Hummin

[torrzent]

2 hours ago, jerry921 said:

I don't think there's a downside to trying for the residente permanente up front, but the consulate I dealt with was reluctant to do that for me, even with plenty of assets shown (I showed them the money from the sale of my house, which I'd fully owned, multiple hundreds of thousands). They apparently like to put you through the 4-year trial before giving you the lifetime thing just to avoid handing out too many of the lifetime things. I also made a try for the permanent one after the first 1 year, which is supposed to be possible, but my local immigration office said no-can-do. They even said I could only get a 1-year extension, but I insisted on applying for the 3 year and that was approved. But all they can do is say no, it didn't cost me anything, they just change a tick-box on the form and give you the temporary one. You don't pay the appropriate fee until they've steered you into the path they're going to approve.

 

It's like Thailand, "YMMV" is the operative rule. But the 4-year plan always works.

 

If you are fluent in Spanish to start with, it may tilt the decision toward granting you permanent right off. Since you (jingthing) have been retired in Thailand for a while, they may decide you're more likely to stay retired in Mexico and give you the permanent visa. It will depend on which consulate you apply at and whether they like you. I ran into a junior employee working as acting consulate while the office was in between real senior people, so she was reluctant to paint outside the lines.

 

It's a two-step process, the step you complete at the Mexican consulate in your home country, and the step you complete at Mexican Immigration office (INM) in your Mexican city after you arrive. There are fees both times. All the numbers go up regularly. The fee at the consulate is $36. The fee at INM is 8008 pesos (under US$450). I've seen the assets required listed as $103k and $110k, so I believe it's $110k and the quote in the link below is old. The 8008 peso fee may be a bit higher too. Once you're approved by the consulate, the INM office won't refuse you.

 

There's no medical check required, and if there's a police background check the consulate does it on their own without telling you.

 

https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/montreal/index.php/en/extranjeros/visas/168-visa-de-residente-permanente

 

 

The other problem with Mexico is that you are on the tax hook for all your worldwide earnings....a bit like the IRS in the US.  If you give them all your financials up front, then you could expect a huge tax surprise.

[torrzent]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

Is any Muslim country is on the list? Even Bali have muslims as a minority, it is still belonging to a Muslim ruled country.

Bali is actually a Hindu majority place.  By your logic any place with a muslim minority, including Florida is a risk?

[torrzent]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I definitely think some localities in Mexico are desirable as expat destinations but fewer than before because of the drug violence. For example, Acapulco which I've been to and enjoyed, forget about it. Probably also forget about Mazatlan (also been to and loved). I think the Puerto Vallarta area would be OK and some of the inland colonial cities.

Trouble is I can't meet the financial requirements for their retirement visa (nor can most Americans based on social security checks only) so for me Mexico is out. 

The road from CDMX to Acapulco is one of the most dangerous in the world for kidnappings and is where the mass kidnapping of the students occurred.  Anywhere in Guerrero is dangerous.

Edited May 9, 2018 by torrzent

[torrzent]

12 hours ago, Hummin said:

They have qute hairy ladies there, for those who like that. Makes me think of  From Dusk to Down. Loved that movie. Selma Hayek? O

 

 

Yes very hairy and stocky with short necks and legs...look like Turkish weightlifters.

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, torrzent said:

Bali is actually a Hindu majority place.  By your logic any place with a muslim minority, including Florida is a risk?

Bali is a province in a muslim country. Actually the country with most muslims. Hope that cleared my statement about Bali. 

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, simon43 said:

At least in Thailand the authorities generally agree that building on the beach side of the road is not a good idea if the sea view is obscured.

I don't know how many Thai beaches you have been on, but that just isn't true. Even Chaweng is entirely built up on the beach side of the road.

[simon43]

Even Chaweng is entirely built up on the beach side of the road.

Yes, my bad. Clearly the authorities in Samui haven't got a clue managing a sustainable beach environment.

I lived in Phuket for many years. so my opinion was based on beaches like Patong (minimal beachside buildings), Nai Yang beach (idem and the army regularly demolishes some of the buildings on the beachside), Nai Harn. Also Jomtien of course.

My point is that allowing construction on the beach-side of the road is not really beneficial to the ambiance of the area, and Ngalapi Beach is a classic example of this. I don't hold out any hope that the undiscovered beaches in south Myanmar will be spared this destruction.

Ngalapi Beach sand is not yellow. It's a sort of off-white, and there are many rocks in the sea. I understand why it has dropped in the list of best beaches in the world.

[MaeJoMTB]

56 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't know how many Thai beaches you have been on, but that just isn't true. Even Chaweng is entirely built up on the beach side of the road.

Nothing wrong with the beach in Vietnam (Vung Tau backbeach).

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[jerry921]

3 hours ago, torrzent said:

Yes very hairy and stocky with short necks and legs...look like Turkish weightlifters.

There are a lot of different ethnic variations in Mexico with different body types, but I think if being a p4p sexpat is your number one goal, Thailand is where you best stay.

 

OTOH Mexican culture is very family-centered and I think your chances of a successful LTR are higher in Mexico. From the gringo men who marry Mexican ladies I hear mostly happy stories, in stark contrast to the constant horror stories on TV about farang men taken for their life savings by manipulative bargirls.

 

For gays, I think Thailand has to be more gay-friendly and present more opportunities than Mexico, but at least Mexico isn't a Muslim country.

 

If you're post-sexual then it doesn't matter anymore. Plenty of eye-candy if you're past doing more than looking.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, jerry921 said:

...

 

For gays, I think Thailand has to be more gay-friendly and present more opportunities than Mexico, but at least Mexico isn't a Muslim country.
...

On that topic in general this survey is of interest.

 

https://www.planetromeo.com/en/care/gay-happiness-index/

On the survey Thailand is rated 16th in the world for "gay happiness" and Mexico 32nd which really isn't too shabby. As anywhere, specific location makes a difference. In Mexico, Puerto Vallarta is a major resort very popular with gay people and less known Merida is considered possibly the most gay friendly area in Mexico. The dominant culture is different than the rest of Mexico. A city like Guanajuato is considered quite conservative, so it would follow less than gay friendly. Also worth noting, Mexico is very far ahead of Thailand on legal civil rights for gay people. 

[torrzent]

2 hours ago, jerry921 said:

 

 

2 hours ago, jerry921 said:

There are a lot of different ethnic variations in Mexico with different body types, but I think if being a p4p sexpat is your number one goal, Thailand is where you best stay.

Not sure why you are trying to hijack the thread and turn it into a discussion on sex.

 

2 hours ago, jerry921 said:

OTOH Mexican culture is very family-centered and I think your chances of a successful LTR are higher in Mexico. From the gringo men who marry Mexican ladies I hear mostly happy stories, in stark contrast to the constant horror stories on TV about farang men taken for their life savings by manipulative bargirls.

That family thing is way over-rated.  I am sure El Chapo's mom thinks he is a nice boy, just misunderstood.

 

2 hours ago, jerry921 said:

If you're post-sexual then it doesn't matter anymore.

Not even sure what a "post" sexual is?  Is this about mail order brides?  You should get with the times.  Its all about apps like Tinder these days.  Not alot of letters being sent.

[mogandave]

The other problem with Mexico is that you are on the tax hook for all your worldwide earnings....a bit like the IRS in the US.  If you give them all your financials up front, then you could expect a huge tax surprise.

I can’t speak to the rest of the world, but if you’re working in Thailand, and paying taxes to Thailand, the first ~$120K is exempt in the US.

I do not like Mexico, and would not live there long term.

[torrzent]

17 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

I can’t speak to the rest of the world, but if you’re working in Thailand, and paying taxes to Thailand, the first ~$120K is exempt in the US.

I do not like Mexico, and would not live there long term.
 

Have to agree.  It is hard to believe that a few name dropping blowhards on here keep talking about these crime ridden cesspools like Mexico, Brazil, Colombia as viable alternative locations.

[Hummin]

26 minutes ago, torrzent said:

Have to agree.  It is hard to believe that a few name dropping blowhards on here keep talking about these crime ridden cesspools like Mexico, Brazil, Colombia as viable alternative locations.

You cant have it all, do you? 

 

Brazil advantages easy visa, gooood steaks, decent prices, good wine, clean air, good clima year around with nice breeze coming up from Antartica. 

 

Dissadnatages Crime

 

Mexico hairy women fantastic beaches and diving. 

 

Colombia best blow

[torrzent]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

You cant have it all, do you? 

 

Brazil advantages easy visa, gooood steaks, decent prices, good wine, clean air, good clima year around with nice breeze coming up from Antartica. 

 

Dissadnatages Crime

 

Mexico hairy women fantastic beaches and diving. 

 

Colombia best blow

Who wants to risk their life to eat a steak?  Kind of like a soi dog racing across an 8 lane expressway to get a scoobie snack!  It may get lucky once or twice, but is road kill waiting to happen, just like a retiree going to any of those 3 countries.

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, torrzent said:

Who wants to risk their life to eat a steak?  Kind of like a soi dog racing across an 8 lane expressway to get a scoobie snack!  It may get lucky once or twice, but is road kill waiting to happen, just like a retiree going to any of those 3 countries.

It is ok to be realistic, and if we had statistic of expats deaths comparing all countries we have talked about in her, do you really think Thailand have less unexpected violents deaths than Mexico and Brazil? 

 

We are talking about murder, road accidents, dengue, and so on

[torrzent]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It is ok to be realistic, and if we had statistic of expats deaths comparing all countries we have talked about in her, do you really think Thailand have less unexpected violents deaths than Mexico and Brazil? 

 

We are talking about murder, road accidents, dengue, and so on

Let's introduce some facts to the discussion rather than conjecture and BS

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/mexico-murder-tally-numbers-2016-second-syria-beats-homicides-iraq-afghanistan-armed-conflict-survey-a7727631.html

And that's from 2 years back.  On track for new records this year.

I heard Syria has good steak, why not head there?

[Hummin]

23 minutes ago, torrzent said:

Let's introduce some facts to the discussion rather than conjecture and BS

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/mexico-murder-tally-numbers-2016-second-syria-beats-homicides-iraq-afghanistan-armed-conflict-survey-a7727631.html

And that's from 2 years back.  On track for new records this year.

I heard Syria has good steak, why not head there?

And I have statistic I can not link to claiming Thailand is one of the most dangerous expat and tourist destination as well Phil. Google and she how many expats living in those ereas you are linking to. Be realistic when you claim facts. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Hummin