Non-immigrant O visa: obtain a work permit - possible or not? Confused!!

[Sunderland]

I am trying to help a new colleague, who already has a non-immigrant O visa based on his marriage to his Thai wife,  obtain a work permit. I have searched previous topics and it has been mentioned that it is possible to do this without needlessly flying to Kuala Lumpur or Singapore to change the non-immigrant O to a non-immigrant B visa.

 

I am not the actual person doing the paperwork, but the Thai person who is doing the paperwork claims that my colleague must go to K.L. or Singapore as he can under no circumstances obtain a work permit with a non-immigrant O visa.

 

Well, I have read on this forum, and elsewhere that you can. Therefore, I tried in vain to call the Ministry of Labour today numerous times, but kept getting cut off on their automated message system.

 

I then decided to be cunning and sent an email, requesting an answer to this query, to several Thai embassies abroad in the hope of establishing some consistent facts. Here are the replies I have received already:

 

Joanne Varin <[email protected]>

Hi,

 

If you have a Non-O visa and u wish to work in Thailand then you must visit an Immigration Bureau and ask Immigration Officers to change your visa status, you will need to bring an official letter from your employer addressed to them and make sure that your employer helps you get a work permit to show to Immigration Officer.  Under the Non-O visa employment is strictly prohibited.

 

have a nice day,

 

Joanne.

 

 

 

[email protected]

Dear Sir,

 

If you are apply for Visa type O then you are not allow to work in Thailand. 
If you wish to work in Thailand then you will have to apply for the Visa Type B. 
For further information about working in Thailand please contact Immigration Office in Bangkok.

 

Best regard,

Visaabteilung der Königlich Thailändischen Botschaft

Lepsiusstr. 64-66

12163 Berlin

Tel. 030 79481117 (Telefonische Auskunft Mo – Fr von 14.30 – 17.00 Uhr)

Fax 030 79481118

[email protected]

www.thaiembassy.de

Öffnungszeiten der Visaabteilung: Mo – Fr von 09.00 – 12.30 Uhr

 

 

 

Thai Embassy London <[email protected]>	)
to me

Dear Sir/Madam,

With this type of visa, you are allowed to work only on a voluntary basis (not getting paid) only. 

Kind Regards,

Visa Officer

Royal Thai Embassy
29-30 Queen's Gate,
London,
SW7 5JB
www.thaiembassy.org/london

 

 

 

Anyway, I would dearly like to help my new colleague, but as usual it seems things are not as clear as I had hoped. What do the previous posters on this topic who claim that you can obtain a work permit have to say? Why do the embassies seem to think it is not possible to obtain a work permit on a non-immigrant O visa when you claim that it is actually doable? 

 

Thanks in anticipation of useful feedback.

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

For most jobs you can, there can be problems if you for a BOI registered company. 

[Sunderland]

He has been married for more than 10 years and has a Thai wife. Keeping the category O visa while obtaining a work permit seems like a common sense approach if possible.

 

The job is a teaching job. The school are convinced he must spread his wings and fly to K.L. or Singapore and change his non-immigrant visa category from O to B before they can process a work permit.

[lemonjelly]

I was teaching with a WP on a Non-O visa based on marriage.... no problems at all. Sounds like his school admin need to contact local labour office to get it from the horses mouth.

[PoorSucker]

No problem at all, labour office will issue a WP on non-O based on marriage. 

Don't ask consulates they are under the MFA, don't ask immigration they don't issue work permits, labour office does. 

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, Sunderland said:

Why do the embassies seem to think it is not possible to obtain a work permit on a non-immigrant O visa when you claim that it is actually doable? 

Unfortunately Embassies are not the most reliable of sources.

 

No category of visa gives permission to work. Permission comes, usually, in the form of a work permit [WP] issued by the Labour Dept. To qualify for a WP the foreigner needs to have entered the country with a Non-Immigrant Visa. The Non 'B' visa category is specifically issued when someone wants to work or conduct business. The Non 'O' category is issued for 'Other' reasons like voluntary work, visiting spouse/children, retirement etc. If someone has entered with a Non 'O' visa the Labour Dept. won't issue a WP unless the person is the spouse, or parent of a Thai or doing voluntary work.

 

4 hours ago, Sunderland said:

the Thai person who is doing the paperwork claims that my colleague must go to K.L. or Singapore as he can under no circumstances obtain a work permit with a non-immigrant O visa.

They are wrong. If applying for a work permit with a Non 'O' the Labour office will need proof of marriage or being a parent. If that is provided they will issue the WP.

[overherebc]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

Unfortunately Embassies are not the most reliable of sources.

 

No category of visa gives permission to work. Permission comes, usually, in the form of a work permit [WP] issued by the Labour Dept. To qualify for a WP the foreigner needs to have entered the country with a Non-Immigrant Visa. The Non 'B' visa category is specifically issued when someone wants to work or conduct business. The Non 'O' category is issued for 'Other' reasons like voluntary work, visiting spouse/children, retirement etc. If someone has entered with a Non 'O' visa the Labour Dept. won't issue a WP unless the person is the spouse, or parent of a Thai or doing voluntary work.

 

They are wrong. If applying for a work permit with a Non 'O' the Labour office will need proof of marriage or being a parent. If that is provided they will issue the WP.

Proof of marriage etc I have never been asked for and have had WP's issued in a few places in Thailand. 

The Labour Dept' require a Non Imm' Visa, 

As said before ask at the Labour Dept' not Immigration or embassy.

[wobalt]

Some years ago I received a non Immigrant visa O based on marriage. As I later got the opportunity to work in Thailand the category was changed on the ‘fly’ to B at the German embassy.


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[whatsupdoc]

39 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Some years ago I received a non Immigrant visa O based on marriage. As I later got the opportunity to work in Thailand the category was changed on the ‘fly’ to B at the German embassy.


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As said before; with a non Immigrant visa O based on marriage you can get a Work Permit. No need to change to non-B.

[wobalt]

As said before; with a non Immigrant visa O based on marriage you can get a Work Permit. No need to change to non-B.

Yes, but the embassy liked to be on the save side...


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[Sir Dude]

9 hours ago, PoorSucker said:

No problem at all, labour office will issue a WP on non-O based on marriage. 

Don't ask consulates they are under the MFA, don't ask immigration they don't issue work permits, labour office does. 

^This.

You get all the paperwork from the school and go to the Labour Office (preferably with a representative of the school), they (MoL) decide whether or not to give you a work permit. Once you have it (WP), then you go down the immigration office and apply for a visa extension on the strength you have been issued a WP by the MoL. I know plenty of people who have work permits on a non O visa. Work permit is mostly nothing to do with immigration if you are working legit here (will probably just sit in some person's desk in the school admin department so can be shown if immigration rocks-up at the school asking questions) and they just want to see it when you apply for extension. There is, of course, the possibility of meeting incompetent officials that don't know their jobs properly and have their moods dictated by the 'which way is the wind blowing today' method...but I think you just have to have a non immigrant visa of some type to apply for a WP.

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

Once you have it (WP), then you go down the immigration office and apply for a visa extension on the strength you have been issued a WP by the MoL.

There would be no need  to do that if they had a valid non-o visa or a extension of stay (not a visa) based upon marriage.

The advantage of staying on a multiple entry visa or extension of stay is that they would not end when the job ends like one based upon working does.

[wobalt]

Well, when I applied for a WP I received only a temporary WP valid only 3 months. I was advised to let the visa expire in order to receive a long term WP and EoS.
When you use an EoS “O “based on marriage you have to also the meet the known requirements for that.
Could there be some issues when your family’s home is upcountry but your work is in Bangkok??


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[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Well, when I applied for a WP I received only a temporary WP valid only 3 months. I was advised to let the visa expire in order to receive a long term WP and EoS.
When you use an EoS “O “based on marriage you have to also the meet the known requirements for that.
Could there be some issues when your family’s home is upcountry but your work is in Bangkok??

That may of been years ago. A work permit is not longer tied to your permit to stay. They issue one year work permits for a 90 day entry from a visa now.

If a person's salary from working meets the 40k baht income requirement it can be be used to apply for the extension based upon marriage.

I would assume if a person was working in Bangkok they would move to Bangkok and apply for the extension there.

[wobalt]

I would assume if a person was working in Bangkok they would move to Bangkok and apply for the extension there.

Normally, but not necessarily if the partner has an own well going business outside Bangkok


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[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Normally, but not necessarily if the partner has an own well going business outside Bangkok

In that case they could get the work permit in Bangkok and make visits to their wife and still apply for the extension where she is living. Or she could visit him and apply for the extension in Bangkok. There is no rule that states they must live together full time.

[stud858]

Way back when I had non O based on condo ownership,  I was told to leave and get B visa.  Went to Penang. Long story but was denied. Came back to Thailand bkk and they happily changed it to B. Weird things happen.  it all depends how competent the school is and who they deal with on the day.  my guess is go to Bangkok with representative from school to change to B then have school apply for WP. But anything is really possible as what other posters say. Good luck

[overherebc]

Many schools/business just don't know the rules about visas and WP's.

Some do but still try to push the applicant to a single entry B  and then convert to an extension. It gives them a false sense of control over the employee on the lines of 'we can cancel your 'visa'  anytime so you have to do as we say.'

If you are entitled by being married etc to hold a Non O, and I suggest a multi entry, firmly stand your ground with the company, don't go near Imm' and deal directly with the Labour office. 

Do out/ins every 90 days ( just keep Tm 30/28's up to date if required ) 

If and when the work/job finishes you can cancel your WP,  keep your visa and no need for any changes. No 7 days to leave, no hassle on cancel EoS and renew again on marriage etc.

Doesn't matter if your wife has a business somewher/anywhere, it's your visa. The WP will be area specific, not the visa.

Also makes it easier to chase the company for money ref' notice period/severance due etc.

Just keep copies every year on WP, visa and tax records.

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, wobalt said:

Some years ago I received a non Immigrant visa O based on marriage. As I later got the opportunity to work in Thailand the category was changed on the ‘fly’ to B at the German embassy.

If you walk into an embassy and tell them you need a visa to work they will want to issue a Non ‘B’. 

 

If you’re married to a Thai, and planning to work, you don’t need to tell the embassy of your plans to work. You should simply apply for a Non ‘O’.

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, overherebc said:

Proof of marriage etc I have never been asked for and have had WP's issued in a few places in Thailand. 

The Labour Dept' require a Non Imm' Visa, 

Maybe, but generally the labour office will want proof.

 

As a general rule labour offices need to see a Non ‘B’, or a Non ‘O’ with proof of marriage/parenthood. Someone waking in with an Non ‘ED’ visa will likely be turned away.

[wobalt]

I applied for 1 year NON O, which was issued, but later they changed to non B, when I picked it up. the Thai government offered me a consultant job via during my application


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[overherebc]

7 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Maybe, but generally the labour office will want proof.

 

As a general rule labour offices need to see a Non ‘B’, or a Non ‘O’ with proof of marriage/parenthood. Someone waking in with an Non ‘ED’ visa will likely be turned away.

Why would anyone on an ED visa be going to the Labour Dept??????

[elviajero]

10 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Why would anyone on an ED visa be going to the Labour Dept??????

I was pointing out the flaw in your comment; "The Labour Dept' require a Non Imm' Visa,".

 

There are many categories of "Non Imm Visa"; the labour office need one with right category. They also should ensure someones permit to stay qualifies for work.

 

The disconnect between the labour and immigration offices means labour offices sometimes issue work permits to people that break immigration rules.

[overherebc]

37 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I was pointing out the flaw in your comment; "The Labour Dept' require a Non Imm' Visa,".

 

There are many categories of "Non Imm Visa"; the labour office need one with right category. They also should ensure someones permit to stay qualifies for work.

 

The disconnect between the labour and immigration offices means labour offices sometimes issue work permits to people that break immigration rules.

I'm sure if you think hard enough you could confuse people even more.

Stick to the fact that the Labour office will issue a WP on a Non 0 visa, single or multi entry.

??

[elviajero]

3 minutes ago, overherebc said:

I'm sure if you think hard enough you could confuse people even more.

Stick to the fact that the Labour office will issue a WP on a Non 0 visa, single or multi entry.

??

It is your comment that is confusing the facts! If you cant accept criticism it's best not to post.

 

 "The Labour Dept' require a Non Imm' Visa,".

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

It is your comment that is confusing the facts! If you cant accept criticism it's best not to post.

 

 "The Labour Dept' require a Non Imm' Visa,".

And I will stand on that comment as anyone on an ED visa has no intention of working because 

A. They don't want to.

B. They maybe want to work as digital nomads.

C. They are loaded and just want to stay in Thailand and it's their only way to stay legally long term.

D. They want to work illegally.

The whole point of stating They require a Non Imm' visa, is merely to point out it doesn't have to be a B visa.

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, overherebc said:

The whole point of stating They require a Non Imm' visa, is merely to point out it doesn't have to be a B visa.

Would've been best to make that clear. I was simply clarifying your comment. "They require a Non Imm' visa" implies any category of Non-Immigrant visa.

[PoorSucker]

13 hours ago, overherebc said:

Why would anyone on an ED visa be going to the Labour Dept??????

Happens all the time when someone in university is on internship and needs a work permit. 

[stament]

On 5/5/2018 at 8:18 AM, ubonjoe said:

There would be no need  to do that if they had a valid non-o visa or a extension of stay (not a visa) based upon marriage.

The advantage of staying on a multiple entry visa or extension of stay is that they would not end when the job ends like one based upon working does.

Would you still need the 400k in the bank if purely on your first multi non Immigrant O visa and married to a Thai?

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, stament said:

Would you still need the 400k in the bank if purely on your first multi non Immigrant O visa and married to a Thai?

If you get the O at an embassy/consulate outside Thailand the only answer is that it depends on their requirements. Some ask to show money some don't.

To convert to a non O single in Thailand with intention to get a one year extension of stay finances are required.