Boys aged 13 and 15 shot in Wealdstone, north-west London

[sanemax]

48 minutes ago, Slip said:

And therein lies the problem- people posting things that are not true to try and bolster their flawed, in this case far-right wing, arguments are taken at face value by trusting souls.  Some posters have a history of doing this.  You would be well-advised to and identify who they are so you can approach their rambling with the pinch of salt they deserve.

It wasnt a "far-right" argument , the guy made a simple mistake and he was corrected , that is how discussions work .

    Its rather extreme of you to suggest that anything he ever says again should not be believed .

   You are demonstrating yet another case of lefties trying to silence non lefties

[stevenl]

24 minutes ago, The manic said:

Ordinary people are being criminalized to survive. Including the grandad who was arrested for accidentally killing a professional Armed burglar from a family of career criminal. In some parts of the UK Roma have so destroyed the fabric of the local community that senior police have warned of riots unless the new immigrants curb their behaviour. Historically unjust situation have criminalized people. The suffragettes  fighting for the right to vote,  serf at the time of robin hood had to break unjust hunting laws to eat etc.

See the posts before yours.

 

Your claim is totally incorrect.

[altcar bob]

Policing in the UK is outmoded,stiff,overly expensive and not fit for purpose. The average cop is on good pay,retires after 25 to 30 years good pension,but its damned expensive. The hobby bobby is hardly fit for purpose,this is where the US picks up on.  A police state some call the US,in a way it is,citizens groups,unpaid take on the task of neighbourhood crime,it works well,but like London the black areas are awash with gun crime,no other way out of it segregation is the only thing in town,it will come,just let them get on with whatever rings their bell,just do not report it,in such detail anyway,its second nature to them

[Slip]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

It wasnt a "far-right" argument , the guy made a simple mistake and he was corrected , that is how discussions work .

    Its rather extreme of you to suggest that anything he ever says again should not be believed .

   You are demonstrating yet another case of lefties trying to silence non lefties

I diasgree.  I don't want to get into an discussion with you about individual posters, as it would be off topic and probably against the rules, but when members repeatedly post untruths that fit a particular narrative then in my opinion, to describe that a 'simple mistake' is dishonest, and others should be aware of such behaviour whichever side of the political spectrum is being represented.

 

There are many posters here who I disagree with politically, but they post in good faith and I read the opinions with interest.  If you are happy for people to post things that are factually incorrect because you happen to agree with them then I think you are heading down a dangerous path.

[The manic]

Just now, stevenl said:

See the posts before yours.

 

Your claim is totally incorrect.

No my comments are correct and verifiable and in the public domain. You are wrong. 

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, Slip said:

There are many posters here who I disagree with politically, but they post in good faith and I read the opinions with interest.  If you are happy for people to post things that are factually incorrect because you happen to agree with them then I think you are heading down a dangerous path.

If you look back though this thread, you will see that I was the one who stated that he was incorrect in my reply to him

[Slip]

Just now, sanemax said:

If you look back though this thread, you will see that I was the one who stated that he was incorrect in my reply to him

Sanemax, if we can put this little sidebar to bed, you are one of the posters that I don't agree with, but whose opinion I am always interested to see and I have respect for. 

 

We should all aim to stop lies being spread from either side, and I appreciate you pointing out the dishonesty in this particular instance, even if you feel that people should be given the benefit of the doubt despite what I see as evidence to the contrary.

[The manic]

56 minutes ago, juice777 said:

 

 

I see you left out on purpose the old man who killed the Traveller was let out the next day with all Charges Dropped.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

 

It was a traumatic experience for him made worse by the police reaction. You omitted to mention his wife is bedridden and disabled.  You omitted the fact the burglar was a career criminal, from a career family of cowards and bullies who specialise in targeting and terrorising old vulnerable people. You omitted to mention the continual and ostentatious harassment of the old man by the thug tinkers and that he now will have to live under police protection in a secret location. A heavy price to pray for eliminating vermin and make the country a safer place.. The organised criminal traveller families and gangs terrorise communities, murder, provide false alibi ,knobble juries, run slavery and trafficking rings and if they do get successfully prosecuted the extended family members wreak vengeance on wittnesse and people who have already been beaten,extorted or robbed.  You mentionex non of these issues.

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by The manic

[Unsane]

2 minutes ago, The manic said:

It was a traumatic experience for him made worse by the police reaction. You committed to mention his wife is bedridden and disabled.  You omitted the fact the burglar was a career criminal, from a career family of cowards and bullies who specialise in targeting and terrorising old vulnerable people. You mooted to mention the continual and ostentatious harassment of the old man by the thug thinkers and that he now will have to live under police protection in a secret location. A heavy price to pray for eliminating vermin and make the country a safer place.. The organised criminal traveller families and gangs terrorise communities, murder, provide false alibi ,knobble juries, run slavery and trafficking rings and if they do get successfully prosecuted the extended family members wreak vengeance on wittnesse and people who have already been beaten,extorted or robbed. 

Shame the old boy couldn't have slotted the other low life piece of vermin while he was at it.  In this regard I'm very disappointed in the old boy 

[The manic]

6 hours ago, Expatthailover said:

Your hero would advocate giving everyone a gun.

What a guy

Not everyone. Not criminals or lunatics etc. Germans and the Swiss are allowed to own guns. There ain't no burglary in Texas.

[The manic]

52 minutes ago, juice777 said:

In America there is guns everywhere and they have 10 times more murders per million, So that don't work,they need to bring back stop and search and put Cameras on the police so they can't abuse their position like they did when I was growing up.

I saw it with my own eyes many a time cameras on the old bill and can only serch pepeole with them would be a way around this and then they could bring back stop and search and then there would be less knives on the street.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

There are guns everywhere in Switzerland..But no mass shootings

[Slip]

17 minutes ago, The manic said:

It was a traumatic experience for him made worse by the police reaction. You omitted to mention his wife is bedridden and disabled.  You omitted the fact the burglar was a career criminal, from a career family of cowards and bullies who specialise in targeting and terrorising old vulnerable people. You omitted to mention the continual and ostentatious harassment of the old man by the thug tinkers and that he now will have to live under police protection in a secret location. A heavy price to pray for eliminating vermin and make the country a safer place.. The organised criminal traveller families and gangs terrorise communities, murder, provide false alibi ,knobble juries, run slavery and trafficking rings and if they do get successfully prosecuted the extended family members wreak vengeance on wittnesse and people who have already been beaten,extorted or robbed.  You mentionex non of these issues.

 

As upsetting as the points you make are, none of them are really relevant to the original falsehood posted that the pensioner had been charged with murder. 

 

As distressing as the whole affair must have been for this poor old man, I don't think many people would argue that such things shouldn't be properly investigated, which in this case would unfortunately involve his arrest in the first instance.  

 

I'm sure we are all happy that he was quickly released and disgusted at the further criminal harassment he has suffered at the hands of the perpetrator's associates in the case.  Hopefully they will also get their just desserts.  As a relatively fit young man I would hate to have to find myself in the position that this old guy did.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Slip

[juice777]

All the more reason to take them away form the Americans and don't let us have them.

They can't be trusted not to shot each other unlike the pepole of Switzerland so why let them have them.

There are guns everywhere in Switzerland..But no mass shootings

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Grouse]

49 minutes ago, altcar bob said:

Policing in the UK is outmoded,stiff,overly expensive and not fit for purpose. The average cop is on good pay,retires after 25 to 30 years good pension,but its damned expensive. The hobby bobby is hardly fit for purpose,this is where the US picks up on.  A police state some call the US,in a way it is,citizens groups,unpaid take on the task of neighbourhood crime,it works well,but like London the black areas are awash with gun crime,no other way out of it segregation is the only thing in town,it will come,just let them get on with whatever rings their bell,just do not report it,in such detail anyway,its second nature to them

Right, let's be realistic here.

 

We have insufficient police with insufficient equipment

 

The UK is easily wealthy enough to provide adequate policing

 

I feel that the police are over generously paid. Roles could be suitably allocated according to age and experience. The young ones break up pub fights, the older ones do the paperwork until 65.

 

When I was a teenager, Noddy cars were a major deterrent !

 

 

 

Finally we MUST stop this politically correct nonsense

 

Stop and search anyone who looks like they could be a risk. If profiling analysis points to Muslims, fine; search them.

 

offended? Who gives a damn!

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Grouse

[Unsane]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Right, let's be realistic here.

Why are you talking sense all of a sudden?

[stevenl]

44 minutes ago, The manic said:

No my comments are correct and verifiable and in the public domain. You are wrong. 

Claiming he was arrested is misleading. He was arrested pending investigation, and let go as soon as possible.

 

You're intentionally giving a wrong impression here.

[cyberfarang]

10 hours ago, nikmar said:

Enoch Powell had some prescience

During the time Enoch Powell was ridiculed, classified as a racist and no one heeded his warnings.

 

Now it`s too late. I would never, ever even consider returning to Britain, my home land that has been transform into a third world criminal infested, shithole.

[BuriramSam]

24 minutes ago, The manic said:

There are guns everywhere in Switzerland..But no mass shootings

Culture and education. Sadly, the former has been perverted into a virtual four-letter word by certain elements of our society.

 

I liken Switzerland to my own family. Born and raised around guns. They were hanging on our walls. We were educated and trained to respect them as a tool.

 

Instead of being so afraid of guns in the US, schools should provide training and education.

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

. I would never, ever even consider returning to Britain, my home land that has been transform into a third world criminal infested, shithole.

Don't be shy; tell us what you really think! ?

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

During the time Enoch Powell was ridiculed, classified as a racist and no one heeded his warnings.

 

Now it`s too late. I would never, ever even consider returning to Britain, my home land that has been transform into a third world criminal infested, shithole.

He was a racist.

[altcar bob]

Just now, stevenl said:

He was a racist.

Oh dear!  now here lies the problem.  Segregation,the only way

[Slip]

6 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

A resident of Whitehaven Cumbria recently told me that the Northern population remains predominantly White Christian.

I suspect that resident was not telling you the truth.  Predominantly white yes, predominantly Christian no.  Well not when I lived there

[Cat ji]

12 hours ago, stevenl said:

OK, at your special request, even though I didn't quote so your post is essentially irrelevant: Nobody is essentially forcing anybody to take up arms against thugs. Only criminals do that.

Loopy.
It is happening like every week or so in South Africa. TV, investigative program..."We are SICK AND TIRED of the crime in this area." Hang them upside down from a tree and beat the skin off the soles of their feet.
Are they criminals?  [read.my.lips.]

Stop wasting time here with your silly nonsense.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Cat ji

[Cat ji]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

He was a racist.

500 years ago, you would have said, "He was a heretic."  Same mentality.

[Slip]

30 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

The Catholics  and Protestants are no  longer the majorities?

I don't think the majority of Brits are Christian in anything other than name.  That is not to say they follow other religions.  I think most are non-religious now.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Slip
double negativity :)

[cyberfarang]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

He was a racist.

Enoch Powell was a realist. He foresaw the problems of so-called cultural enrichment. 

[Slip]

2 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Enoch Powell was a realist. He foresaw the problems of so-called cultural enrichment. 

Perhaps if the 'blacks' hadn't been forced into ghettos by previous Tory/ neolib governments or targeted by racist public policy things would have been different. Or are you really suggesting that black people are more genetically disposed to commit crime? 

[cyberfarang]

1 hour ago, Slip said:

Perhaps if the 'blacks' hadn't been forced into ghettos by previous Tory/ neolib governments or targeted by racist public policy things would have been different. Or are you really suggesting that black people are more genetically disposed to commit crime? 

I have no idea, I`m only quoting the statistics.

[PhonThong]

9 hours ago, Slip said:

Sanemax, if we can put this little sidebar to bed, you are one of the posters that I don't agree with, but whose opinion I am always interested to see and I have respect for. 

 

We should all aim to stop lies being spread from either side, and I appreciate you pointing out the dishonesty in this particular instance, even if you feel that people should be given the benefit of the doubt despite what I see as evidence to the contrary.

 

[Ahab]

20 hours ago, stevenl said:

Nobody is forcing anybody to take up arms against thugs. Only criminals do that.

Yes, it is much better to sit still and be a victim. God forbid that people actually have a right (and ability) to protect themselves. Much better option to call the police and hope they get to you in time to save your life.