Visiting Thaksin Could See Pheu Thai Disbanded

[cynic1]

8 hours ago, eggers said:

The Shinawatra duo just keep on swanning around the globe "foot loose & fancy free" , with no action taken by Gov't to have them extradited, despite frequent claims all legal actions are being taken or that they cannot be located........ Pathetic!!

What hypocrisy by the current PM. Yingluck was  sentenced to 2 years gaol/jail in September 2017. In the past the current PM had said they sent an Interpol alert. Headlines in the past were similar to "oh where oh where is Yingluck".  Seems the political cabinet knows exactly where she is. What a joke on the PM. Lost face on this one alone aside from Red Bull boss being a similar story. I think Red Bull  was the waiter at the restaurant wearing a Marx Brother disguise (Groucho)!

[mike324]

11 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

They can try to ban the PTP from the election; they might even succeed in banning the PTP from the election.

 

However, any thought of legitimacy and/or political peace would go flying out the window. The simple fact is that PTP is the most popular party in Thailand and if a free and fair election were held today, Thaksin would win and become Prime Minister.

 

I know it. You know it. Prayut knows it. The NCPO members know it. The "five rivers" know it. The political class knows it. The heads of all institutions know it. All the political parties know it. The Thai people know it. Hell, my dog knows it.

 

The effect of banning the PTP would simply put lie to the idea that Thai people had any rights at all.

 

The genie is out of the proverbial bottle. If you take away all the political rights of the Thai people, either you will have to govern with such oppression and arrogance that the country will decline rapidly (see Burma), the Thai people will rise up and Thailand would be back to the bloody street battles with all the effects that would have on the economy, or there is a middle ground where things almost but not quite get out of hand; positions would harden, hatred would re-kindle, fester and grow further, and Thailand would stagnate and atrophy.

 

IMHO, the only not terrible future for Thailand is to have as free and fair an election as possible; the alternative(s) simply lead to either a rapid or slow decline. 

 

The Thai people deserve better than this.

 

You are correct, but Thai people deserve better than Thaksin or Prayuth. All the past politicans are just padding their own pockets, Thaksin was one of the worst.

 

Thailand needs to take a couple steps backwards in order to move forward again.

[metisdead]

A post containing an offensive hyperbolic comment has been removed.

[Baerboxer]

12 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

They can try to ban the PTP from the election; they might even succeed in banning the PTP from the election.

 

However, any thought of legitimacy and/or political peace would go flying out the window. The simple fact is that PTP is the most popular party in Thailand and if a free and fair election were held today, Thaksin would win and become Prime Minister.

 

I know it. You know it. Prayut knows it. The NCPO members know it. The "five rivers" know it. The political class knows it. The heads of all institutions know it. All the political parties know it. The Thai people know it. Hell, my dog knows it.

 

The effect of banning the PTP would simply put lie to the idea that Thai people had any rights at all.

 

The genie is out of the proverbial bottle. If you take away all the political rights of the Thai people, either you will have to govern with such oppression and arrogance that the country will decline rapidly (see Burma), the Thai people will rise up and Thailand would be back to the bloody street battles with all the effects that would have on the economy, or there is a middle ground where things almost but not quite get out of hand; positions would harden, hatred would re-kindle, fester and grow further, and Thailand would stagnate and atrophy.

 

IMHO, the only not terrible future for Thailand is to have as free and fair an election as possible; the alternative(s) simply lead to either a rapid or slow decline. 

 

The Thai people deserve better than this.

 

 

All hail Thaksin the Innocent!

 

Don't count your chickens until they hatch etc etc etc.

 

Many former Thaksin supporters dropped him and the Shins - the Rice Scheme, Amnesty fiasco and procession of lies finally broke the camels back. That's why now's a good time for new fresh parties.

 

You insult the intelligence of Thai people. Most now know very well a vote for any Thaksin owned party is a vote for a Shin kleptocracy with all the old cronies and toadies running back to the trough. Like good old Chalerm the sober.

 

The Thai people do deserve better than this - better than an enforced military Junta and better than a crime family hell bent on putting themselves firmly beyond the law whilst enriching themselves beyond most people's wildest dreams.

 

How anyone can justify a crook, a bail jumping fugitive, owning a political party with some very seedy cronies and a para military street army, and pretend it's democratic and lawful is just bewildering. Sad but bewildering.

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

Prayut would have as much chance in Thailand as Hun Sen would in Cambodia if there were free and fair elections.

 

It is striking the similarities between the two men and their actions, and also, when things are not going in their direction, the way they attempt to use and quote the law when it suits them to legitimize their cause.

 

Both these two men are in power through seizing it, quashing opposition through wrongful and anti-democratic means; and both men try to put themselves forward as the only hope for the country and saviours of the people.

 

In describing Prayut and Hun Sen you also describe Thaksin. He is after all Hun Sen's "eternal friend" and was trying to orchestrate his own amnesty and a strangle hold on politics. He has, does, and probably always will while he can, use the law to sue people. A number of Shin opponents also disappeared or turned up dead. 

 

Whilst Shin parties and candidates win elections he's 'pro-democratic" - look at their behavior when they've lost by elections, governor elections and how they stop by force and threat opponents of the Shins of speaking in Shin areas of influence. If you think the Shins are remotely interested in democracy, a fairer society or reforms that change the ability on a clan to dominate, then you're very misguided.

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, Eligius said:

I am speaking about the oppression of people, the lack of freedom of speech, and the ultra-promotion of the cult of personality that we have witnessed under Prayut. I cannot say more, this being Thailand  ...

 

 

 

Cult of personality - here, you must be joking. Current attempts are no better than the last lots. Like when Yingluck put Thaksin's photo on food aid given out to some flood victims - at tax payers expense! Or claimed he was buying lots of pumps to help control flood waters - only they never got delivered. 

 

Thai people are much more clever than many posters seem to think. They see through these feeble attempts.

[bannork]

This is a great opportunity for the ex-Pheua Thai MPs to prove the party is an institution and not a toy belonging to the Shinawats.

I can see it now.

'' Boss, is that you and sis? The line's not too good, perhaps one of those Middle-East sandstorms is affecting it.

Boss, it's like this, as prospective MPs, we are risking being banned for life if we take your advice or money. So unfortunately it's time to go our separate ways, at least for now. 

We will have to think up our own policies, find our own funding, even select our own candidate MPs and party executive board.

We've never had this freedom before so it's an exciting time, a democratic party, wow! 

But just in case we're a little bereft of ideas, if you do have any, you know,........ thoughts about policy, well perhaps you could set up an anonymous email account, Dennis in Dubai or something similar,  and drop us a line or two, or even a complete manifesto if you've got enough time.''

Yours,

 Free at last! 

 

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Agree but still better than non elected coup Prayut. 

 

Why, just because he contrived to win an election? Or do you believe his performance was actually better?

 

Btw, interesting that since PTP were removed the Shin's don't make Forbes top rich list anymore. Just saying.

[bannork]

9 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

In describing Prayut and Hun Sen you also describe Thaksin. He is after all Hun Sen's "eternal friend" and was trying to orchestrate his own amnesty and a strangle hold on politics. He has, does, and probably always will while he can, use the law to sue people. A number of Shin opponents also disappeared or turned up dead. 

 

Whilst Shin parties and candidates win elections he's 'pro-democratic" - look at their behavior when they've lost by elections, governor elections and how they stop by force and threat opponents of the Shins of speaking in Shin areas of influence. If you think the Shins are remotely interested in democracy, a fairer society or reforms that change the ability on a clan to dominate, then you're very misguided.

The families are even connected by marriage now. Thaksin's niece, Somchai's daughter, married the son of Hun Sen's right hand man.

,https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/639981-thaksins-niece-set-to-marry-son-of-hun-sens-right-hand-man/.

 

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

I don't disagree that Thaksin was a crook of giant proportions but being a ' convicted criminal ' in Thailand doesn't mean a thing to me nor many others. He was only convicted after the military seized power and in effect controlled the courts.

 

Prayut and his henchmen are crooks and criminals and whichever way you cut it overthrew a democratically elected government that was rightfully in place by the will of the Thai people. Prayut is now trying to get into bed with family members of ' Kamnan Poh ' for God's sake. A murderer who has been convicted by the highest courts in this land and is free.

 

What about this Article 44 what he can enforce at any time making him basically the biggest despot in the world. He is no better than all the other tinpot dictators and banana republics of Africa and Asia.

 

They're all crooks Scouse. And Thaksin never denied the offense for which he was convicted, tried to bribe the judges in the case for which is lawyer was jailed, never appealed but did a runner. Not exactly suggesting he was wrongly convicted is it?

 

Now it could be argued there's always some selectivity on which cases get progressed. That the sentence should've been suspended etc etc. But of course he had to so a runner because of all the other outstanding serious looming cases. The Krungthai Fraud case has seen some of his co-defendants jailed for 18 years.

 

The issue is, there are still plenty of TVF posters who want to pretend Thaksin isn't a crook, or try and gloss over that fact whilst also pretending he's remotely interested in law and order and democracy, which he isn't.

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, bannork said:

The families are even connected by marriage now. Thaksin's niece, Somchai's daughter, married the son of Hun Sen's right hand man.

,https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/639981-thaksins-niece-set-to-marry-son-of-hun-sens-right-hand-man/.

 

 

Yes indeed. Clearly a love match made in heaven! 

[Baerboxer]

9 hours ago, pornprong said:

How do you think Prayuth is trying to lure Newin an company to his military party?

 

Only neither Newin or Prayuth are convicted criminal fugitives are they?

 

[JAG]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Why, just because he contrived to win an election? Or do you believe his performance was actually better?

 

Btw, interesting that since PTP were removed the Shin's don't make Forbes top rich list anymore. Just saying.

 

A very succinct two line post, which sums up your position.

 

You state "he contrived to win an election" - winning an election is done by persuading more people to vote for you than the alternative parties. Thaksin has consistently done that, but you dismiss it as "contrived" and therefore - to yourself at least - justify his repeated removal by the military. What goes unsaid (as ever with you) is that both coups this century were staged during the election process, free elections, called in response to opposition demands, and which were likely/obviously going to result in a Thaksin (or his proxy) victory. As ever you allow your hatred of the man and his party blind you to this fundemental denial of the electoral will of the Thai people. 

 

Incidentally, could it be that "the Shin's don't make Forbes top rich list anymore" because they have been nudged out, in Thailand at least, by a number of other individuals who have prospered significantly since the coup and junta government ( which they backed) have come to power?

[Baerboxer]

19 minutes ago, JAG said:

A very succinct two line post, which sums up your position.

 

You state "he contrived to win an election" - winning an election is done by persuading more people to vote for you than the alternative parties. Thaksin has consistently done that, but you dismiss it as "contrived" and therefore - to yourself at least - justify his repeated removal by the military. What goes unsaid (as ever with you) is that both coups this century were staged during the election process, free elections, called in response to opposition demands, and which were likely/obviously going to result in a Thaksin (or his proxy) victory. As ever you allow your hatred of the man and his party blind you to this fundemental denial of the electoral will of the Thai people. 

 

Incidentally, could it be that "the Shin's don't make Forbes top rich list anymore" because they have been nudged out, in Thailand at least, by a number of other individuals who have prospered significantly since the coup and junta government ( which they backed) have come to power?

 

Your usual gamesmanship and meandering in response to points that should be easy to comprehend for anyone who takes an unbiased view.

 

Thaksin was seen as a breath of fresh air when first elected. People said "he's so rich he doesn't need to steal" - how wrong they were. His supporters also stopped opposition parties campaigning in Shin territory. Even entertainers who supported the opposition were warned off - don't come and sing or else! At least one canvasser was murdered. People were coerced, bribed, promised good things and threatened with consequences. But perhaps you think that's fair electioneering? Would any country allow a convicted crook on the lam to rule by proxy? Hiring and firing ministers to share out the spoils with constant cabinet reshuffles? 

I will agree that Yingluck was trying to organize a new election before she was removed by a court for an abuse of power. But the Shin militia attacking the anti Shin protesters and demonstrators gave the excuse the army wanted. Shins shot themselves in the foot - again. But Thaksin. I'm sure you would agree, had no right to seize the position of caretaker PC he had previously resigned, kicking out his replacement; drag his heels on a new election, and try and present himself as the official PM to the UN.

I think your obsession with having an election equals democracy, which it doesn't and seeming loathing of senior military officers clouds your judgement and allows you to mask the true nature and behavior the Shins have demonstrated.

 

Yes, to your last paragraph. It could be that. Or it could be that the real easy source of their big gains during their years in power was taken out of their hands. Sadly placed in other's probably.

 

Are you really saying that as long as you win the election, you can do whatever you want? If so, you'd fit in great with the Shins.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Baerboxer

[Scouse123]

Prayuth is waiting patiently to use the flimsiest of excuses to find a reason to postpone or cancel the elections. He has got too used to walking around on red carpets, hobnobbing with bigwigs and international leaders, writing his ballads, and demanding that ' Everybody listen to me! ' A far better option he feels, that drifting off into obscurity as ex-chief of the Armed forces and playing Golf!

 

Thaksin, who everybody knows is guilty as sin, and sister, Yingluck, have not been extradited because Prayuth and company have not requested it in my view, and for all the bluster, they are quite happy with them out of the country in exile.

 

There is no political will to bring them back whatsoever. If they were to come back that would stop Prayuth playing his ' smoke and mirrors game ' about staying in power for national security and outside perceived threats to destabilise the country.

 

Thailand will get a date for elections, then just wait for a bomb to go off in downtown Bangkok.

 

Red bull chap, you have no chance!!, he also is not coming back anytime soon.

[wealthychef]

12 hours ago, robblok said:

Sure, but how is it that someone who is banned from politics can still lead a political party... does not legal to me. I have not seen this in the civilized world.. could you please show me where they let someone who is a convicted criminal banned from politics can still lead a political party ?

In the civilized world there is no "banned from politics" possible.  Everyone has a voice in a free society, even people whose voice you don't like.  ESPECIALLY the voices you don't like.  The answer to bad speech is MORE speech.  

 

BTW yes, I know as an American this is an odd statement, given the history of our CIA in overthrowing freely elected governments and our support for horrible regimes such as Saudi Arabia and Israel's treatment of the Palestines.  

[sjaak327]

11 hours ago, robblok said:

It is not.. but you know what I mean.. a criminal gets banned from politics and still can control a party.. No wonder action has been taken if even after being banned from politics he goes on.  Nobody would stand for that kind of behavior anywhere else. 

A bit like how abhisit became PM with a back door deal with Newin, who was banned at the time. It didn't bother the little man then....

[tukkytuktuk]

He seems to spend a lot of time with his youngest daughter. I fail to see the monster in this man, he clearly is a great father. Yes he swans about living the life of luxury, but he's rich. What else is there to do? 

 

I think many, including the government are jealous of his good fortune and happy life with his family. They just want to pour salt into the wounds. Leave him alone, he's to old to do anyone any harm. Find a new victim to bully. Christ, talk about stalkers.

 

You know what I'd like to do, kick Suthep in the gonads. Evil regime. What a sap!

 

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by tukkytuktuk

[JAG]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Your usual gamesmanship and meandering in response to points that should be easy to comprehend for anyone who takes an unbiased view.

 

Thaksin was seen as a breath of fresh air when first elected. People said "he's so rich he doesn't need to steal" - how wrong they were. His supporters also stopped opposition parties campaigning in Shin territory. Even entertainers who supported the opposition were warned off - don't come and sing or else! At least one canvasser was murdered. People were coerced, bribed, promised good things and threatened with consequences. But perhaps you think that's fair electioneering? Would any country allow a convicted crook on the lam to rule by proxy? Hiring and firing ministers to share out the spoils with constant cabinet reshuffles? 

I will agree that Yingluck was trying to organize a new election before she was removed by a court for an abuse of power. But the Shin militia attacking the anti Shin protesters and demonstrators gave the excuse the army wanted. Shins shot themselves in the foot - again. But Thaksin. I'm sure you would agree, had no right to seize the position of caretaker PC he had previously resigned, kicking out his replacement; drag his heels on a new election, and try and present himself as the official PM to the UN.

I think your obsession with having an election equals democracy, which it doesn't and seeming loathing of senior military officers clouds your judgement and allows you to mask the true nature and behavior the Shins have demonstrated.

 

Yes, to your last paragraph. It could be that. Or it could be that the real easy source of their big gains during their years in power was taken out of their hands. Sadly placed in other's probably.

 

Are you really saying that as long as you win the election, you can do whatever you want? If so, you'd fit in great with the Shins.

3

 Not gamesmanship or meandering - the point I make is fundamental, absolutely fundamental to the whole argument, to just about every discussion we find ourselves in about the current political situation. This fundemental point is that the Thai people have consistently chosen Thaksin, his party and, if you like, his proxies over successive elections. These choices have as consistently been overturned by the military. You simply will not address that point, I suspect because you know that it is one that can in any way be defended. You know what the Thai electorate have consistently decided, and you will not accept it. You make a series of allegations against Thaksin and his parties " His supporters also stopped opposition parties campaigning in Shin territory. Even entertainers who supported the opposition were warned off - don't come and sing or else! At least one canvasser was murdered. People were coerced, bribed, promised good things and threatened with consequences."; allegations which are unsupported by the findings of any of the international or domestic bodies which monitored those elections. You, however, condone a long-term junta government (4 years plus) who seized power during an election, have governed by decree or the deliberations of an appointed crony legislature, and have instituted restrictions on freedom of speech, assembly and political activity which would not be out of place in a 1970s South American Junta state; and you regard, and defend it as being better than your nemesis Thaksin. And you suggest I am the one who is obsessed.

 

Yes, I have a low opinion of the senior military officers who have stolen this countries government and its peoples' sovereignty. You know why, we have discussed it often enough. I am under no illusions about the nature of Thaksin and his party. I am under no illusions as to why the Thai people have consistently chosen them, and I am under no illusions as to why they have been equally consistently overthrown, by the military at the behest of a very small proportion of the Thai people.

 

Elections (free and fair and these were) do equal democracy. They are it's foundation. Overturn them and you deny democracy. Support and justify them being overturned and you support the people being denied democracy, and that at the end of the day is what you are doing.

 

 Let us turn your final sentence around: Are you really saying that as long as you have the guns, you can do whatever you want, and whatever your sponsors want no matter how the people vote? If so, you'd fit in great with those denying the Thai people democracy.

 

 

We are at opposite ends of the argument, but rest assured, as long as you continue to seek to defend and justify the junta, I will continue to challenge you, and I will continue to point out the fundamental - you cannot and will not accept the decision of the Thai electorate, because it results in a government which you obsessively dislike. If that irks you, so be it.

 

[pornprong]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Only neither Newin or Prayuth are convicted criminal fugitives are they?

 

Says more about the Thai judicial system than it does about the qualities of Newin and Prayuth....doesn't it?

[pornprong]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Your usual gamesmanship and meandering in response to points that should be easy to comprehend for anyone who takes an unbiased view.

 

Thaksin was seen as a breath of fresh air when first elected. People said "he's so rich he doesn't need to steal" - how wrong they were. His supporters also stopped opposition parties campaigning in Shin territory. Even entertainers who supported the opposition were warned off - don't come and sing or else! At least one canvasser was murdered. People were coerced, bribed, promised good things and threatened with consequences. But perhaps you think that's fair electioneering? Would any country allow a convicted crook on the lam to rule by proxy? Hiring and firing ministers to share out the spoils with constant cabinet reshuffles? 

I will agree that Yingluck was trying to organize a new election before she was removed by a court for an abuse of power. But the Shin militia attacking the anti Shin protesters and demonstrators gave the excuse the army wanted. Shins shot themselves in the foot - again. But Thaksin. I'm sure you would agree, had no right to seize the position of caretaker PC he had previously resigned, kicking out his replacement; drag his heels on a new election, and try and present himself as the official PM to the UN.

I think your obsession with having an election equals democracy, which it doesn't and seeming loathing of senior military officers clouds your judgement and allows you to mask the true nature and behavior the Shins have demonstrated.

 

Yes, to your last paragraph. It could be that. Or it could be that the real easy source of their big gains during their years in power was taken out of their hands. Sadly placed in other's probably.

 

Are you really saying that as long as you win the election, you can do whatever you want? If so, you'd fit in great with the Shins.

You've really swallowed the lot haven't you?

Hook, line and sinker.

[Baerboxer]

Just now, pornprong said:

Says more about the Thai judicial system than it does about the qualities of Newin and Prayuth....doesn't it?

 

Absolutely. 

 

But we all know the selectivity that is inherent withing the current system. That does not mean that those who do get prosecuted and convicted should be let off though,

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, pornprong said:

You've really swallowed the lot haven't you?

Hook, line and sinker.

 

Nope. I just don't believe the Shin lies unlike you. Most people don't but the few hardcore Shin supporters here do.

 

If you believe anything in that post to be "fake news" let us know. Most if not all of it was reported on TVF. Only way way before you joined.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Baerboxer

[tukkytuktuk]

The latest word on the street is that Thaksin and Yingluck, plus other family members have jetted off to Dubai. They will stay there for a short-time, then fly on to the U.K, London and holiday there with the whole family.

 

Gosh, I'm green with envy. Just wait until I tweet the poisoned dwarf from Surat Thani, I'll tell him. 

[Baerboxer]

35 minutes ago, JAG said:

 Not gamesmanship or meandering - the point I make is fundamental, absolutely fundamental to the whole argument, to just about every discussion we find ourselves in about the current political situation. This fundemental point is that the Thai people have consistently chosen Thaksin, his party and, if you like, his proxies over successive elections. These choices have as consistently been overturned by the military. You simply will not address that point, I suspect because you know that it is one that can in any way be defended. You know what the Thai electorate have consistently decided, and you will not accept it. You make a series of allegations against Thaksin and his parties " His supporters also stopped opposition parties campaigning in Shin territory. Even entertainers who supported the opposition were warned off - don't come and sing or else! At least one canvasser was murdered. People were coerced, bribed, promised good things and threatened with consequences."; allegations which are unsupported by the findings of any of the international or domestic bodies which monitored those elections. You, however, condone a long-term junta government (4 years plus) who seized power during an election, have governed by decree or the deliberations of an appointed crony legislature, and have instituted restrictions on freedom of speech, assembly and political activity which would not be out of place in a 1970s South American Junta state; and you regard, and defend it as being better than your nemesis Thaksin. And you suggest I am the one who is obsessed.

 

Yes, I have a low opinion of the senior military officers who have stolen this countries government and its peoples' sovereignty. You know why, we have discussed it often enough. I am under no illusions about the nature of Thaksin and his party. I am under no illusions as to why the Thai people have consistently chosen them, and I am under no illusions as to why they have been equally consistently overthrown, by the military at the behest of a very small proportion of the Thai people.

 

Elections (free and fair and these were) do equal democracy. They are it's foundation. Overturn them and you deny democracy. Support and justify them being overturned and you support the people being denied democracy, and that at the end of the day is what you are doing.

 

 Let us turn your final sentence around: Are you really saying that as long as you have the guns, you can do whatever you want, and whatever your sponsors want no matter how the people vote? If so, you'd fit in great with those denying the Thai people democracy.

 

 

We are at opposite ends of the argument, but rest assured, as long as you continue to seek to defend and justify the junta, I will continue to challenge you, and I will continue to point out the fundamental - you cannot and will not accept the decision of the Thai electorate, because it results in a government which you obsessively dislike. If that irks you, so be it.

 

 

Very difficult when you mix quotes from my post with your own prose. As an English teacher you might recognize that.

 

All the comments about canvassers and campaigner harassment, including one killed, were reported in the usual media outlets quoted often on this forum as well as TVF. Choose not to believe them if you wish. The singer who was threatened and cancelled gigs in Chiang Mai was in the last few years. As for the coercion and peer pressure that goes on in the rural villages with the Puu Yai's and activists, then quite frankly, if you do want to see that you must be blinkered. And that goes on in all areas, by all parties. Reminding people of who "butter's their bread" - just like when Phuket were openly told they wouldn't get a new convention center because they didn't vote for PTP.

 

You know very well that I don't support the Junta but those who support the Shins always have to fall back on that. The Thai people can elect who they want in accordance with the law, such as it is. Those elected must respect that law and operate within it. Only Thaksin and his proxies have shown over and over that they can't. Arrogance or a trait of a kleptocracy or both? As Einstein said, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is insanity. Anyone expecting any Thaksin proxy puppet government to act differently is insane. 

 

However, the Junta, far from being the self proclaimed saviors simply took advantage. Seemingly on behalf of themselves as well as their promoters and backers. Although what goes on behind the scenes within that elite hiso powerful families group is much more complex than our simplistic views. More like the Medieval plotters in Europe, with sides changed. 

 

Have you noticed that neither the Shin faction, nor the military, nor the elite hiso's who back the military, ever actually make any meaningful reforms. Now why do you think that is? They all want to take advantage of it to either maintain the position or usurp it back. In this context the difference, to the electorate, between a military government, or an elected one is cosmetic. Neither have the slightest intention of serving the people or changing the basic mechanisms of the society. I think more Thais than you realize know that. Therefore they'll vote for whoever promises them the most, even though on past experience much of what's promised never get's delivered. 

 

The only hope is new parties, who grasp the nettles of real reforms. But with vast sums of money at stake, toothless ineffective anti corruption and law enforcement agencies, archaic deliberately vague laws, and some seemingly inexplicable decisions by those working in the justice system, it's going to be very heavy going.

 

You seem to have the same difficulty accepting that a non elected convicted criminal should be punished and should most certainly not be running the country by Skype. The fact a crook was able to do so, for several years, creates the ideal scenario for those who do trust democracy to freeze it and take advantage. But at the end of the day, it's all about who controls the trough and who benefits. Pretending PTP are any different is delusional. Being elected doesn't give the right to thieve, lie, and do as you please. Nor should having lots of weapons. 

 

Thaksin's main failure has been his inability to get the military on his side. Had he done so I'd suggest he would've been like Hun Sen or Mugabe. He showed he isn't bothered ethically or morally about Juntas when he lent the Burmese Junta Thai tax payer money so they could by lots of equipment from his family business!

 

The main differences between us is that you seem to treat PTP as a bona fide political party that operates along democratic lines whereas I see them as a wholly owned subsidiary of the Shin Corp - owned and ruled over by that clan's patriarch; and your insistence that anyone who doesn't accept or criticizes PTP must be pro Junta. It seems you can't get that false connection out of your head. But I guess it's useful for diversion and obfuscation of the facts. And their are plenty of negative facts about the Shins.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

33 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

The latest word on the street is that Thaksin and Yingluck, plus other family members have jetted off to Dubai. They will stay there for a short-time, then fly on to the U.K, London and holiday there with the whole family.

 

Gosh, I'm green with envy. Just wait until I tweet the poisoned dwarf from Surat Thani, I'll tell him. 

 

Live's so good when your a family of billionaires, millionaires and have private planes at your disposal! 

 

First class hotels, private flights, all the shopping they want!

 

Hope those members who return to Thailand remember to declare new purchases to Customs and pay the duties - 555!

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, tukkytuktuk said:

He seems to spend a lot of time with his youngest daughter. I fail to see the monster in this man, he clearly is a great father. Yes he swans about living the life of luxury, but he's rich. What else is there to do? 

 

I think many, including the government are jealous of his good fortune and happy life with his family. They just want to pour salt into the wounds. Leave him alone, he's to old to do anyone any harm. Find a new victim to bully. Christ, talk about stalkers.

 

You know what I'd like to do, kick Suthep in the gonads. Evil regime. What a sap!

 

 

 

Strewth! Only you forgot to mention he got most of his wealth by defrauding the Thai people!

 

Poor little billionaire. Hope he's not inconvenienced by all this negative nasty attention the Junta spew out. Yes, let him enjoy his life of luxury, cossetted and pampered, after all he did so much for others 

[Dumbastheycome]

17 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

They can try to ban the PTP from the election; they might even succeed in banning the PTP from the election.

 

However, any thought of legitimacy and/or political peace would go flying out the window. The simple fact is that PTP is the most popular party in Thailand and if a free and fair election were held today, Thaksin would win and become Prime Minister.

 

I know it. You know it. Prayut knows it. The NCPO members know it. The "five rivers" know it. The political class knows it. The heads of all institutions know it. All the political parties know it. The Thai people know it. Hell, my dog knows it.

 

The effect of banning the PTP would simply put lie to the idea that Thai people had any rights at all.

 

The genie is out of the proverbial bottle. If you take away all the political rights of the Thai people, either you will have to govern with such oppression and arrogance that the country will decline rapidly (see Burma), the Thai people will rise up and Thailand would be back to the bloody street battles with all the effects that would have on the economy, or there is a middle ground where things almost but not quite get out of hand; positions would harden, hatred would re-kindle, fester and grow further, and Thailand would stagnate and atrophy.

 

IMHO, the only not terrible future for Thailand is to have as free and fair an election as possible; the alternative(s) simply lead to either a rapid or slow decline. 

 

The Thai people deserve better than this.

 

This  reads  like a   Media  Wrap Up  of an in  depth  conclusion  about   nothing  at  all !

[sjaak327]

5 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Only neither Newin or Prayuth are convicted criminal fugitives are they?

 

The only reason Prayuth isn't a convicted criminal is because  he granted himself an amnesty. You know an amnesty granted by the barrel of a gun instead of via the political system with a valid mandate.

 

This post highlights why your credibility is zero.

[tukkytuktuk]

23 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

The only reason Prayuth isn't a convicted criminal is because  he granted himself an amnesty. You know an amnesty granted by the barrel of a gun instead of via the political system with a valid mandate.

 

This post highlights why your credibility is zero.

And if Prayuth gave Thaksin amnesty he would also be an innocent man. I just can't understand why Prayuth and Thaksin just can't get along. Both have military pasts. Thaksin was in the forces, his cousin was the army chief once, they should be best busom pals. I guess some green, poisoned dwarf from the South filled Prayuth's mind with lies and hatred.

 

Here we are, some photos, you see he was in the military, I wonder if he was special forces?