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Posted

My wife and I have recently been thinking about and discussing moving to the UK in the not too distant future. It seems that some of the requirements esp. the financial ones need 6+ months of evidence and documents so I think its wise for me to get somethings in order right now.

 

My understanding is that there are 3 areas that need to be fulfilled:

 

1 - Proof of relationship

2 - Financial requirements

3 - Accomodation

 

1 and 3 should not be a problem, we have been married for several years and my wife has taken my surname (on her Thai ID card and passport), we have son who is a British citizen and have been to the UK on visitor visas several times and we got those visas without any problems. We will use my parents address for #3 which we did for the visitor visas.

 

I think I am going to have problems with #2 though, and not because of not having or earning enough money but with documentation. I work in IT remotely and have worked for a company for a few years now, I earn over the 18,600 GBP per year but I never get payslips. Also I receive payments either via Paypal which I then withdraw to my Thai or UK account and/or via international wire transfer. The company is not British or Thai (it is a legally registered company in another country though) and I am paid in USD which is then converted to Thai baht. I dont see any problem getting a letter from my employer to prove my earnings and working history and I could also ask them to pay me a specific fixed amount to just one bank every month (Im currently paid in chunks throughout the month and to different accounts) but what about the lack of payslips? Is there some other form of documentation that could be used instead or do I have no chance of getting approved without the slips?

 

I believe there is an option of having a job offer too, I do not intend to change employment right now but I never know what might happen in the future so I think I need to prepare for this option too. For this option I just need a letter from the new employer correct? I read on another forum that even if this option is used you still need to show a min. of 6 months work payslips/earnings from your current employer, is this true? If so whats the point of even having the new employer letter?

 

I have read that the job offer needs to start within 3 months of arriving in the UK, but the application takes 3-4 months correct? That is quite a long time, what if the new employer wants me to start asap, can I go over to the UK alone to start the new job while the application process for my wife is underway and then she flies over with our son if/when she is successful? 

 

Are there any other options that might apply to me here? (Im aware of the costs and English tests etc.) Are there any advice lines that can be called? 

 

thank you

 

 

Posted

You could put your wife on a 6 months visitor visa whilst you establish a job and put your child in school. After the 6 months she could then return and apply for 'parent of a british child', this has less of a burden on the financial requirement. It's about £3,000 for 30 months, but she can work whilst on this visa and it includes NHS contributions. After the 2.5 year point you can extend it for another 2.5 years after which she can claim citizenship.

Posted
7 hours ago, letmein001 said:

 

Are there any other options that might apply to me here? (Im aware of the costs and English tests etc.) Are there any advice lines that can be called? 

further to my previous post, ignore it, as you are married, sorry I believe it exempts you from this visa, there is a helpline you can find it on the government website, but they charge by the minute on a pre-cleared debit card, it is expensive and they aren't that helpful unless you already know exactly what you want. Just log on their website and look through all the options that are open to you.

Posted
You could put your wife on a 6 months visitor visa whilst you establish a job and put your child in school. After the 6 months she could then return and apply for 'parent of a british child', this has less of a burden on the financial requirement. It's about £3,000 for 30 months, but she can work whilst on this visa and it includes NHS contributions. After the 2.5 year point you can extend it for another 2.5 years after which she can claim citizenship.

This isn’t really the appropriate route for the OP’s wife, the rules are very clear that If you’re eligible to apply as a partner, you must do that instead of applying as a parent.
In answer to the OP, yes you can go to UK in advance of your wife for work purposes, not really a satisfactory prospect but it’s no different from spouses who are resident in the UK with their wife living in the home country.
Your wife could apply for a visit visa though.
  • Like 1
Posted
2 minutes ago, theoldgit said:


This isn’t really the appropriate route for the OP’s wife, the rules are very clear that If you’re eligible to apply as a partner, you must do that instead of applying as a paren

yep, realised it afterwards, it doesn't always pay to be married :)

Posted

If you work for someone or for a company, simply ask them for a letter stating your annual salary and list your monthly income. You can ask then for as many months or years as required. I’ve done this before and it was acceptable.

Posted

I am kind of in the same boat, I have housing and can prove relationship. 2. is the issue for me too.

 

Big questions : Do you own a house ? How much saving do you have - hopefully a lot as living in Thailand will be far cheaper.

 

Luckily i have a small 2 bed house in the south east that I rent out for 12,000 pounds a years that funds me living here. This house I can convert into about 300,000+20k quid to enable me to buy a house in another part of the UK and that will still leave about 80-100,000 to show immigration I have funds. 

 

One issue with this method though is that the money (70k ish - wife AND child) must be in the bank 6 months before visa app, AND again 6 months in the bank after 2 years to show immigration again I think.

 

Next year I have a 55 years old pension coming - not a lot about 8-9,000 a year, that will help me not dip into this amount in the saving bank too much. Can you get a 55 year pension if near that age ? 

 

I think relying on immigration saying a letter for a job is 'on offer' is purely fanciful. Anyone could get a letter from a friend for that with absolutely no  intention of giving you work. i would also imagine they ask for payslips to show you are PAYING TAX and not avoiding it - in any country. Can you provide FULL TAX history whilst working for this company whilst in Thailand ? Its the sort of question I would ask if I was immigration. Just getting her in the door initially may be less of an object than getting her to stay in 2 years if you cannot fulfill the demand in 2 years again.

 

These days you must fulfill immigration's demand twice - 1st on applying and then again after 2 years I think.

 

Good luck

 

 

 

Posted
1 hour ago, virgomjh said:

It is outrageous that husbands and wives of British citizens are being prevented from settling in the UK simply because they do not have the mental capacity to pass this test.

wow, i had a look at this and though I feel for you on the wifey bit it's about time that people wishing to settle here have some modicum of knowledge on the country they wish to move to :)

Posted
1 hour ago, Megasin1 said:

wow, i had a look at this and though I feel for you on the wifey bit it's about time that people wishing to settle here have some modicum of knowledge on the country they wish to move to :)

I'm not disagreeing with you but most Brits wouldn’t pass it either. Meghan Markel tried it a while back and failed miserably and she is an "English" speaker.

 

A lot of revision needed.

  • Like 1
Posted
 

These days you must fulfill immigration's demand twice - 1st on applying and then again after 2 years I think

Not twice; thrice!

 

For family settlemnt as a spouse or partner there are three applications:

  1. the initial leave to enter, valid for 33 months;
  2. Further Leave to Remain after 30 months liiving in the UK, valid for 30 months;
  3. Indefinite Leave to Remain 30 months after FLR,valid indefinitely. If for some reason one does not yet qualify for ILR, one can apply for FLR instead.
At each stage tyhe financial requiremnt must be met; though you do not need to use gthe same method each time and for FLR and ILR the applicant's earned income can be used, either on it's own or combined with the sponsor's.

 

Also at each stage, unless exempt through age or disability, the language requirement needs to be met:

  •  initial entry clearance, A1 of the CEFR in English speaking and listening;
  • FLR, A2;
  • ILR, B1 plus passing the Life in the UK test.
Nationals of Engiish speaking countries do not need to pass the speaking and listening tests, but do need to pass the LitUK test.

 

no matter how hard she tries she cannot memorise enough of it (the LitUK test handbook) to pass the test,

Like any exam, the LitUK test is not a test of memory, it's a test of knowledge. Instead of trying to memorise every question and answer in the handbook  (which change periodicaly anyway!) she should learn the subject. After all, most of the querstions in the book and therefore question bank are simply different ways of asking the same thing!

 

In my case it wasn't a requirement when my wife entered the UK to settle here, but the rules were changed and the goalposts moved just afterwards.

When did your wife first arrive? It must have been at least 4.5 years ago.

 

The test was announced by the then Labour Home Secretary, David Blunkett, in 2002, introduced for naturalisation in 2005 and as a requiremnt for ILR in April 2007. Up until, if memory serves, November 2013 completing an ESOL with citizenship course could be used in place of the LitUK test,

 

Of course,  even though she now needs to pass the LitUK test, an ESOL with citizenship course could still be used to help your wife prepare for the test itself. I'd have a word with your local adult education department to see if they offer such a course were I you.

 

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, rasg said:

I'm not disagreeing with you but most Brits wouldn’t pass it either. Meghan Markel tried it a while back and failed miserably and she is an "English" speaker.

 

A lot of revision needed.

 

Although candidates need to be able to read English, the LitUK test is more a test of knowledge than a test of English. As a national of an English speaking country, America, Meghan Markel is exempt from the speaking and listening tests!

 

That most Britis wouldn't pass it is a sad comment on the UK's modern education system rather than the test.

 

You can take an official practice test here. Without any revision or practice I got one wrong and scored 96%, the pass mark is 75%.

 

No need towonder how I'd fare with the American equivelent; very poorly without any study first!

Edited by 7by7
Posted
On 08/05/2018 at 8:48 AM, Bantex said:

If you work for someone or for a company, simply ask them for a letter stating your annual salary and list your monthly income. You can ask then for as many months or years as required. I’ve done this before and it was acceptable.

 

Maybe acceptable for a visit visa application; but not for a settlement one!

 

The immigration rules list the specific documentary evidence required, depending upon how the financial requirement is being met. Decision makers havevirtualy no discretion on the matter.

 

See Immigration Rules Appendix FM-SE: family members specified evidence.

 

@letmein001

For more guidance on the various ways the requiremnt can be met and the evidence required, see the financial requirement appendix.

 

 

Posted

I managed 83% but read a couple of the questions wrong. :smile:

 

Tried to take it again and the same questions appear.

Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Like any exam, the LitUK test is not a test of memory, it's a test of knowledge. Instead of trying to memorise every question and answer in the handbook  (which change periodicaly anyway!) she should learn the subject. After all, most of the querstions in the book and therefore question bank are simply different ways of asking the same thing!

To pass an exam you not only have to understand the material you have to be able remember it. Of course she is not trying to memorise questions and answers from the handbook - she is trying to absorb and recall the vast quantity of information in the text in order to answer any questions that come up. The questions are evenly spread over the whole range of the material and are designed to ensure that the candidates have understood and remembered the majority of it. She is just about able to understand the material but is unable to recall enough of it to score 75%. Absorbing this amount of material is difficult enough in your own language, but I think most of us English speakers would be struggling to do this in a foreign language. I do not think it is reasonable to disqualify someone from settling in the UK for marriage simply because they do not have a great memory or academic ability.

 

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The test was announced by the then Labour Home Secretary, David Blunkett, in 2002, introduced for naturalisation in 2005 and as a requiremnt for ILR in April 2007. Up until, if memory serves, November 2013 completing an ESOL with citizenship course could be used in place of the LitUK test,

The test was introduced by May as a requirement for ILR settlement visas in July 2012, not 2007, as part of a raft of measures designed to cut immigration from non EU countries because she couldn't control EU immigration. My wife entered prior to July 2012 so was exempt from all the new rules except for the Lit UK test, which was applied retrospectively and without warning to every settlement application regardless of entry date. I appreciate your suggestion regarding the ESOL with Citizenship course, but there are easier ways to pass the English Language requirement and she would still have to pass the Lit UK test.

 

22 hours ago, Megasin1 said:

wow, i had a look at this and though I feel for you on the wifey bit it's about time that people wishing to settle here have some modicum of knowledge on the country they wish to move to :)

I agree that it is useful for anyone wishing to settle here to have a modicum of knowledge about the UK. This test requires far more than a modicum! There is no justification for requiring non EU wives and husbands to have a much greater knowledge of British history and culture than the average British citizen.

 

The aim of my post was to forewarn the OP and anyone else thinking about trying to settle here about this requirement and to think carefully about whether their partner will be able to pass this test before committing to this route because it easy to make the mistake of underestimating the difficulty of it. If 50% of non EU non English speaking applicants were failing it before the 10,000 words were added, the failure rate will be higher now.

Edited by virgomjh
correction
  • Confused 1
Posted
8 hours ago, rasg said:

Tried to take it again and the same questions appear.

 

That's because they want you to buy the book!

Posted

Of course!

 

I don't have the latest version but I have it in Thai and English as WORD doc. I think somebody on here posted it a while back.

Posted
2 hours ago, virgomjh said:

The test was introduced by May as a requirement for ILR settlement visas in July 2012, not 2007, as part of a raft of measures designed to cut immigration from non EU countries because she couldn't control EU immigration

 

Wrong.

 

The timescale of the KoLL (Knowledge of Life and Language in the UK) requirement is as I posted earlier:;  announced by the then Labour Home Secretary, David Blunkett, in 2002, introduced for naturalisation in 2005 and as a requiremnt for ILR in April 2007, all under Labour. Easy to check if you don't believe me.

 

As your wife finds preparing for the test on her own so difficult, have you considered enrolling her on a suitable course with your local adult education service. Most run such.

 

There's also a Thai version as a pinned topic here! She'll still need to be able to read and understand the questions and answers (the test is multiple choice) in English, of course, but that pinned topic may help her study.

 

The latest articles on pass rates I can find are from last year, and are juxt about poor pass rates in certain areas. The latest national figures I can find come from th the answer to this FoI request in 2010 (two years before you reckon the test was introduced!).

Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, rasg said:

I don't have the latest version but I have it in Thai and English as WORD doc. I think somebody on here posted it a while back.

 

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

There's also a Thai version as a pinned topic here!

 

Edited by 7by7
Link added
Posted (edited)
On 5/7/2018 at 11:55 PM, letmein001 said:

I think I am going to have problems with #2 though, and not because of not having or earning enough money but with documentation. I work in IT remotely and have worked for a company for a few years now, I earn over the 18,600 GBP per year but I never get payslips. Also I receive payments either via Paypal which I then withdraw to my Thai or UK account and/or via international wire transfer. The company is not British or Thai (it is a legally registered company in another country though) and I am paid in USD which is then converted to Thai baht. I dont see any problem getting a letter from my employer to prove my earnings and working history and I could also ask them to pay me a specific fixed amount to just one bank every month (Im currently paid in chunks throughout the month and to different accounts) but what about the lack of payslips? Is there some other form of documentation that could be used instead or do I have no chance of getting approved without the slips?

 

If you contact the Thai Revenue Department they can supply you with up-to-date personal income tax statements for the time you have been living in Thailand and working.

 

You can request one here http://rdsrv2.rd.go.th/contactus_en/

Edited by Fish Head Soup
Posted

Just a heads up on using your parents place as an address - there's quite a bit of supporting evidence needed even for that and, seeing as it'll be yourself wife and child you must also make sure it's not overcrowded

 

(see section 12 here)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/maintenance-and-accommodation-maa/maintenance-and-accommodation-maa--2

 

Good luck on the application.  It's a long and complex process but it can be done - the folks here are very helpful!

Posted

Thanks for all the info everyone, to answer all the points here:

 

I come no-where near close to qualifying for the financial requirements with savings :(

 

About the English tests, we will cross that bridge if/when we get to it. My wife will most likely not be working so she should have plenty of time to prepare and her English has improved a lot in the few years we have been together.

 

Ive had plenty of evidence regarding home ownership from my parents such as mortgage docs and council tax bills that I've used with previous visa applications.

 

Regarding meeting the financial requirements, what if I got a new job over in the UK and then we moved over there as soon as it started with my wife coming over on a 6 month visitor visa and then returning with our son at the end of that to start the application from Thailand? I guess I would then need to provide the payment slips and details for the last 6 months from that new job while I stayed in the UK correct? What problems/hurdles could we encounter by going this route?

Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, letmein001 said:

Regarding meeting the financial requirements, what if I got a new job over in the UK and then we moved over there as soon as it started with my wife coming over on a 6 month visitor visa and then returning with our son at the end of that to start the application from Thailand? I guess I would then need to provide the payment slips and details for the last 6 months from that new job while I stayed in the UK correct? What problems/hurdles could we encounter by going this route?

If you can get a job offer of a job which exceeds the financial requirement threshold of £18,600 starting within 3 months of returning to the UK then there is no need for you to wait before making a visa application, you would already qualify now.

 

If you have been living in Thailand for over 180 days per year and you have been earning over £18,600 per year whilst doing so then you have been liable to pay income tax on the earnings regardless of their origin unless you were paying tax on them at source and that source is a country that Thailand has an income tax treaty with (UK has a treaty so there is no double taxation). You can prove your income by showing the relevant tax has been paid on your earnings, along with the proof of deposits to accounts in your name that match the tax payments, and your job offer, then you can apply for a visa immediately.

 

The above presumes that you have not been avoiding paying the required relevant tax payments in Thailand of course.

 

 

Edited by Fish Head Soup
Posted

 

5 hours ago, Fish Head Soup said:

If you can get a job offer of a job which exceeds the financial requirement threshold of £18,600 starting within 3 months of returning to the UK then there is no need for you to wait before making a visa application, you would already qualify now.

That would be 5.4. Category B: Less than 6 months with current employer or variable income – overseas sponsor returning to the UK of the financial requiremnt.

 

As can be seen it's not straightforward, and there are conditions which must be met; not least obtaining that firm job offer in the UK starting within 3 months of your return before you do return. You don't have three months from arriving in the UK with your family to find that job, you must  already have the firm job offer when your wife makes her visa application. Then there is the evidence required of your earnings in the 12 months prior her submitting her application, as listed in the relevent part of the Immigration Rules Appendix FM-SE: family members specified evidence. Do you have, or can get, that evidence?

 

13 hours ago, letmein001 said:

Regarding meeting the financial requirements, what if I got a new job over in the UK and then we moved over there as soon as it started with my wife coming over on a 6 month visitor visa and then returning with our son at the end of that to start the application from Thailand? I guess I would then need to provide the payment slips and details for the last 6 months from that new job while I stayed in the UK correct? What problems/hurdles could we encounter by going this route?

 

If you can continue with your current employment once back in the UK, and can supply the required evidence, then meeting the financial requiremnt for you is simple; you use 5.2. Category A: With current employer for 6 months or more – overseas sponsor returning to the UK.

 

If you can't do either of the aforementioned, then I'm afraid you are left with 5.1. Category A: With current employer for 6 months or more – person residing in the UK.

 

In this case, yes you would need to return to the UK, find a job paying at least the minimum required and be in that job for 6 months before your wife can apply for settlement.

 

While you are doing this, your wife can apply for a visit visa so she can spend 6 months in the UK with you. As you say, she will need to return to Thailand at end of her 6 months visit to apply for settlement once you have met the the financial requirement.

 

The major obstacle being convincing the decision maker when she makes her visit visa application that she will do this and not simply remain in the UK illegally when her visit visa expires. Having said that; it's possible as members here can testify. 

 

As your son is British he does nott, of course, need a visa to either visit or live in the UK. There is no need for him to return to Thailandwith his mother when she goes back to make her settlement application; unless you all wish it. 

Posted
23 hours ago, virgomjh said:

To pass an exam you not only have to understand the material you have to be able remember it. Of course she is not trying to memorise questions and answers from the handbook - she is trying to absorb and recall the vast quantity of information in the text in order to answer any questions that come up. The questions are evenly spread over the whole range of the material and are designed to ensure that the candidates have understood and remembered the majority of it. She is just about able to understand the material but is unable to recall enough of it to score 75%. Absorbing this amount of material is difficult enough in your own language, but I think most of us English speakers would be struggling to do this in a foreign language. I do not think it is reasonable to disqualify someone from settling in the UK for marriage simply because they do not have a great memory or academic ability.

 

The test was introduced by May as a requirement for ILR settlement visas in July 2012, not 2007, as part of a raft of measures designed to cut immigration from non EU countries because she couldn't control EU immigration. My wife entered prior to July 2012 so was exempt from all the new rules except for the Lit UK test, which was applied retrospectively and without warning to every settlement application regardless of entry date. I appreciate your suggestion regarding the ESOL with Citizenship course, but there are easier ways to pass the English Language requirement and she would still have to pass the Lit UK test.

 

I agree that it is useful for anyone wishing to settle here to have a modicum of knowledge about the UK. This test requires far more than a modicum! There is no justification for requiring non EU wives and husbands to have a much greater knowledge of British history and culture than the average British citizen.

 

The aim of my post was to forewarn the OP and anyone else thinking about trying to settle here about this requirement and to think carefully about whether their partner will be able to pass this test before committing to this route because it easy to make the mistake of underestimating the difficulty of it. If 50% of non EU non English speaking applicants were failing it before the 10,000 words were added, the failure rate will be higher now.

I agree with you, the exam is ridiculous and how it somehow makes the UK a better place for British citizens or immigrants is beyond me. I suppose the idea is that it teaches British values but nobody can agree what British values are anyway, when did family and community cease to matter, sad.

Posted
2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

That would be 5.4. Category B: Less than 6 months with current employer or variable income – overseas sponsor returning to the UK of the financial requiremnt.

 

As can be seen it's not straightforward, and there are conditions which must be met; not least obtaining that firm job offer in the UK starting within 3 months of your return before you do return. You don't have three months from arriving in the UK with your family to find that job, you must  already have the firm job offer when your wife makes her visa application. Then there is the evidence required of your earnings in the 12 months prior her submitting her application, as listed in the relevent part of the Immigration Rules Appendix FM-SE: family members specified evidence. Do you have, or can get, that evidence?

 

Yes that is correct, my wife obtained a settlement visa last month and I used this route as the sponsor.

 

The OP said that he had been living in Thailand for the past couple of years and had been earning above the £18,600 required and so should be able to prove these earnings quite easily. He does not need to show 'pay slips' he only needs to be able to demonstrate that the earnings were paid to him and the relevant taxes were paid on the earnings, this can be done in any number of ways.

 

 

Posted
16 hours ago, letmein001 said:

What problems/hurdles could we encounter by going this route?

Your biggest problem could be your wife living here for 6 months, seriously. I would recommend that you come so that her first 6 months is during Spring/Summer and not Autumn/Winter. A quick visit is a lot different to living here. It's good if you can find her some Thai friends and also if you have a Thai/Asian food shop nearby. You will also need to keep her occupied as otherwise you may find her returning after 6 months and not wanting to come back. Good luck.

Posted
On 5/8/2018 at 4:07 PM, virgomjh said:

Yes meeting the three requirements that you listed plus the English Language Test will get you to square one but to get a settlement visa on the next step your wife will have to pass the Life in the UK test. Sounds at first sight like it would be a simple matter of her learning a few basic facts about the UK, but it is not. Please don't underestimate how difficult this test is.

 

Your wife will be required to memorise over 6,000 facts including over 200 dates packed into 30,000 words on British culture and politics, and all the key events in British history from the bronze age to the present day. It was originally only required for citizenship applications but May slipped it into the settlement visa requirements in 2012 to cut immigration on the partner route knowing full well that over 50% of non English speaking applicants were failing it. She added an extra 10,000 words just for good measure.

 

Before you commit to this track I strongly recommend that you ask your wife to read through the whole book and get a feel whether she could score 75% on a test on the information in it. Someone has posted the book on line here - http://www.lifeintheunitedkingdomtest.co.uk/.

 

My wife and I met all the other requirements but no matter how hard she tries she cannot memorise enough of it to pass the test, and it has been a very distressing experience for both of us. Your wife might have a great memory and be able to pass it, but if she cant she will be stuck with having to make eternal applications for a temporary 'further leave' visa every few years with the fear of rejection and deportation each time.

 

It is outrageous that husbands and wives of British citizens are being prevented from settling in the UK simply because they do not have the mental capacity to pass this test. But I cant see it being reviewed any time soon, so the best advice I can give to anyone thinking of settling here with a Thai wife is to be aware of it and check it out very carefully before you commit to this route. In my case it wasn't a requirement when my wife entered the UK to settle here, but the rules were changed and the goalposts moved just afterwards. Forewarned is forearmed so hope this helps.

 

Wow Excellent post. Something to think about

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