It also sounds like the Chinese will not be getting another (and another) tourist visa.

In the realm of anecdotal evidence, last year I did a same day out & back visa exempt run by air to HCMC from Swampy.  Upon return, I was (unsurprisingly) pulled aside for questioning.  I told the IO that I worked online for an American company, and it was like a magic phrase, he said, "ok, no problem, next time get a visa" stamped me in and I was on my way.

 

As with everything in Thailand, it depends on the official and the day (and probably other factors too)... but I think the preponderance of evidence indicates that generally you won't have an issue with online work outside Thailand, particularly considering you have to be caught working - which is rather hard to do if you're just using the computer on your own at home or a cafe.  Look at the number of openly advertised coworking spaces; I'm only aware of one case in Chiang Mai where one was mistakenly raided, and nothing came of it... again it's anecdotal, but I don't foresee the law being specifically changed to be made unambiguous, and absent a crackdown I don't see an issue.

 

I just ignore the legions of misguided people on TV shouting "it's illegal" as I do with the other legions of negative nancys here who clearly have too much time on their hands and no desire to be constructive.  I have no idea what they're hoping to gain by going on and on about it being illegal, but I've given up trying to understand people on the internet.

2 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

But but but - another officer is just as likely to say the opposite. Nothing is EVER certain in Thailand.

 

That's so true, and it is meant to be that way.

2 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

But but but - another officer is just as likely to say the opposite.

Nonsense.

 

Thankfully they know immigration and labor law better than most Thai Visa know-nothings. 

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, mommysboy said:

I can't be specific, but there have been similar cases in Phuket, Bangkok, and a couple in Chiang Mai.

 

http://www.chiangmailocator.com/wiki-can-digital-nomads-legally-work-in-thailand-p177

 

The link is very informative.  I quote the summary:

 

NO MAGICAL FORMULA

These cases may illustrate how the authorities, in this case the Chiang Mai Work Permit office positions itself with regard to the issue of foreigners working in Chiang Mai, especially digital nomads.

The Work Permit office also stresses that " there is no mathematical formula to determine what constitutes work, each case has to be evaluated individually. All circumstances will be taken into account, including the time that the foreigner resides in the Kingdom, the true purpose of the foreigner coming to Thailand, the work location and work situation of the foreigner and so on. "

 

 

So with the above extract given that all circumstances will be taken into consideration, what do you think their reaction would be to a person with multiple TVs in their passport being investigated for online work, with a computer history of said work going back through the previous visas?

 

Would they be safe because they were on a TV at the time of their investigation? Personally I don't think so.

 

As with everything here, you cannot accurately state that everyone is safe doing online work in Thailand on a tourist visa.

Guys, I also have a digital income of sorts but I don't brag about it.  It takes me about an hour or two each day and "work" is finished and the next day all kinds of cash is in there.  Mainly logging into various accounts and sending a few emails out.  If that's work you tell me.

I have no idea. I'm just surprised there has been no comments about Brown envelopes.

1 hour ago, chrisinth said:

So with the above extract given that all circumstances will be taken into consideration, what do you think their reaction would be to a person with multiple TVs in their passport being investigated for online work, with a computer history of said work going back through the previous visas?

 

Would they be safe because they were on a TV at the time of their investigation? Personally I don't think so.

 

As with everything here, you cannot accurately state that everyone is safe doing online work in Thailand on a tourist visa.

 

I don't think anyone would be investigated for working online at the present time- only if what they were doing was in itself illegal.

 

Someone with multiple Tourist Visas is probably on thin ice anyway. I guess they would be advised to get a non-imm o, or be warned that they will not be allowed back in to the country in future.  But this is a separate issue from online working as such.  The fact that they had been working online as a digital nomad wouldn't in itself cause a problem.

 

The factors mentioned in a decision vary: scale, environment, and enforcement are often cited when it comes to digital nomads.

 

I guess working on a tourist visa is only ok because these people are assumed to be short term visitors.  It could not be used as a long term vehicle for staying in the country.

 

 

Edited May 13, 20188 yr by mommysboy

29 minutes ago, james1995 said:

Guys, I also have a digital income of sorts but I don't brag about it.  It takes me about an hour or two each day and "work" is finished and the next day all kinds of cash is in there.  Mainly logging into various accounts and sending a few emails out.  If that's work you tell me.

Strictly it's work, yes.  But it is not classed as such in Thailand currently, providing you are not employed by a Thai entity, or servicing Thai clients in Thailand.

 

Obviously, legality is also determined by what you are actually doing

 

So, if you were teaching offshore students online from home, then that is not a problem.  However, if you were selling locally sourced items that might be another issue, as would vlogging.  Enforcement is another thing.

Edited May 13, 20188 yr by mommysboy

One of the main things is if you want to work online then make sure the money goes into an offshore bank account and then you transfer it to your Thai bank account. Do not have it paid directly into your Thai account

 

2 hours ago, chrisinth said:

you cannot accurately state that everyone is safe doing online work in Thailand on a tourist visa.

 

Well, not if Thai Visa know-nothings are suddenly put in charge.

 

 

Thankfully Thai immigration and Ministry of Labor officers actually know the law.

2 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

Nonsense.

 

Thankfully they know immigration and labor law better than most Thai Visa know-nothings. 

 

 

 

 

 

It has nothing to do with them knowing the laws. It has everything to do with whether or not they apply them. One officer might not, another might. Got it now?

11 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

Funny how some of the Thai Visa members seem to think that they are not only Thai lawyers focusing on immigration and labor law, but that they actually work for the Ministry of Labor. 

 

 

Time and time again the immigration and labor department make a raid, suspicious that there are aliens working illegally for a Thai company or company in Thailand. When they discover that there is no Thai business connection, that they are only working remotely for non-Thai companies, all left alone. Nothing illegal in that. 

Can you point me to some news or information about all these raids?  Every raid I've heard about someone was caught working without a work permit, in the country illegally etc.

 

1 minute ago, ericthai said:

Can you point me to some news or information about all these raids?  Every raid I've heard about someone was caught working without a work permit, in the country illegally etc.

 

8 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

Sure. Here's another one that immediately springs to mind.

 

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/10/thailand-immigration-officials-raid-chiang-mai-co-working-space/#mKFCEzmkJJW46HGT.97

 

 

35 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

One of the main things is if you want to work online then make sure the money goes into an offshore bank account and then you transfer it to your Thai bank account. Do not have it paid directly into your Thai account

 

It's honestly irrelevant from the legal perspective, though may be important where taxation is concerned.

11 minutes ago, jackdd said:

 

Thanks!!! 

14 minutes ago, ericthai said:

Can you point me to some news or information about all these raids?  Every raid I've heard about someone was caught working without a work permit, in the country illegally etc.

 

You are possibly not appreciating the difference between mainstream working and working online- there is a very significant difference.

1 hour ago, ericthai said:

Can you point me to some news or information about all these raids? 

 

Er, okay.

 

Well...

 

 https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/10/thailand-immigration-officials-raid-chiang-mai-co-working-space/#eE1TMjTBQuFWMXeR.97

 

 

Working remotely for a non-Thai company while in Thailand is perfectly legal. Can do it on a Tourist Visa. As a remote worker one doesn't come under the Thai Worker's Act. Work Permit not required. 

 

Cheers. 

1 hour ago, Bangkok Barry said:

It has nothing to do with them knowing the laws. It has everything to do with whether or not they apply them. One officer might not, another might. Got it now?

 

 

Oh man, are you clueless about Thailand. 

7 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

 

Oh man, are you clueless about Thailand. 

 

After living here for over 25 years? I don't think so. If you aren't aware that officials apply rules on a whim perhaps it is you who is clueless.

8 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

 

Oh man, are you clueless about Thailand. 

 

I think if a poll was held here on whether rules are applied consistently or inconsistently, I am absolutely sure what the result would be - by an overwhelming majority.

My POV is that both Labour and Immigration have told the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that, if your embassies and consulates ex-Thailand are willing to hand out back-to-back tourist visas like Halloween candy, don't expect us to do anything about these 'tourists' once they enter the Kingdom.

Can someone please explain how these co-working spaces operate? I am of the impression that I must pay to work in one of these spaces, but must I also supply my own work or does the work space supply the work for me. If I am supplying my own work then why would I use one of these working spaces when I would be able to do the work at home. If the work space is finding me the work then am I not working for a Thai business. Am I missing something here?

1 minute ago, Russell17au said:

Can someone please explain how these co-working spaces operate? I am of the impression that I must pay to work in one of these spaces, but must I also supply my own work or does the work space supply the work for me. If I am supplying my own work then why would I use one of these working spaces when I would be able to do the work at home. If the work space is finding me the work then am I not working for a Thai business. Am I missing something here?

You just pay money to be allowed to be there and they provide you some facilities like a chair, a desk, internet, drinks. You can do whatever you want there. It's mainly for people who don't have a desk at home or stay with other people who would distract them, and thus prefer to be at this co working space.

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

You just pay money to be allowed to be there and they provide you some facilities like a chair, a desk, internet, drinks. You can do whatever you want there. It's mainly for people who don't have a desk at home or stay with other people who would distract them, and thus prefer to be at this co working space.

thanks jackdd

 

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

Can someone please explain how these co-working spaces operate? I am of the impression that I must pay to work in one of these spaces, but must I also supply my own work or does the work space supply the work for me. If I am supplying my own work then why would I use one of these working spaces when I would be able to do the work at home. If the work space is finding me the work then am I not working for a Thai business. Am I missing something here?

Just think of it as a glorified internet cafe.

 

15 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

Er, okay.

 

Well...

 

 https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/10/thailand-immigration-officials-raid-chiang-mai-co-working-space/#eE1TMjTBQuFWMXeR.97

 

 

Working remotely for a non-Thai company while in Thailand is perfectly legal. Can do it on a Tourist Visa. As a remote worker one doesn't come under the Thai Worker's Act. Work Permit not required. 

 

Cheers. 

Utter nonsense

8 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Utter nonsense

You need to inform the Ministry of Labor and Department of Immigration that their legal departments are wrong. 

8 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Utter nonsense

Utterly wrong.

Imagine if the tourism authority got hold of this story and pumped it so hard the argument/uncertainty would be over.  Could be a welcome boost.