North Korea casts doubt on Trump summit, suspends talks with South

[sirineou]

20 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Yes. In reality the negotiations have started. This is the posturing and preparation stage. Letting the opposing side have a glimpse of your strength (as an official invitee rather than spies) might send some messages.

 

Kim isn't foolish enough to really believe he could beat the US. And he knows he could never afford to come anywhere close to. Besides which, he's scared to offend China who have instructed a different approach.

 

These are annual exercises. There is no reason to cancel them prior to the talks unless the US had decided that in doing so would give them an advantage. They appear to have concluded the opposite, that holding them is more advantageous.

 

The Western powers were desperate to avoid conflict in the 1930's so soon after the carnage of WW1. But appeasing Hitler and pandering to him had the totally opposite effect to that desired.

 NK does not need a "glimpse" . NK has gotten plenty of glimpses . It is precisely because of those glimpses that it seeks a nuclear capability.

What the NK needs is a glimpse of a future that does not threaten it's existence to modify it's defensive stance. 

   

[sirineou]

16 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm a Trump hater, simply because of how he operates, what he's done, and what he's trying to do.

 

However, I'm a balanced Trump hater, so even I am not going to try to blame this latest maneuver by North Korean on Trump or the U.S. military.

 

Don't worry though. There's a VERY long list of other things that Trump absolutely deserves discredit for. Perhaps Kim doesn't want to see Trump touted for the Nobel Peace prize???   

 If only Trump was Commander and Chief of the military none of this would have happened.

[crankshaft]

On 5/15/2018 at 9:30 PM, Topdoc said:

North Korea pardons three prisoners and returns them to the U.S.  It then starts to dismantle its testing site and what does Trump do to reward these initiatives, he starts another war game.

The test site is unusable after the last test....

[Skeptic7]

While agreed that the military exercises should have been put on hold...shouldn't the South Korean President and his staff maybe thought of this too??? South Korea should have preemptively halted the exercises for obvious reasons. Bad decisions all around. 

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

While agreed that the military exercises should have been put on hold...shouldn't the South Korean President and his staff maybe thought of this too??? South Korea should have preemptively halted the exercises for obvious reasons. Bad decisions all around. 

Totally agree. This has to be on the diplomats, wouldn't even be surprised if Trump knew nothing of these exercises.

[lovelomsak]

3 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

While agreed that the military exercises should have been put on hold...shouldn't the South Korean President and his staff maybe thought of this too??? South Korea should have preemptively halted the exercises for obvious reasons. Bad decisions all around. 

Very good point. Why did South Korea not stop the  exercises.

[lannarebirth]

30 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

Very good point. Why did South Korea not stop the  exercises.

Because North Korea was not bargaining in good faith from the start.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-north-korea-flipped-and-bashed-the-us-before-the-trump-kim-summit-2018-5

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, lovelomsak said:

Very good point. Why did South Korea not stop the  exercises.

 

53 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Because North Korea was not bargaining in good faith from the start.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-north-korea-flipped-and-bashed-the-us-before-the-trump-kim-summit-2018-5

No. South Korea enthusiastically represented Kim's apparent concession as a breakthrough. Wasn't it the President of South Korea who said Trump should get a Nobel Prize? And now you're contending that they didn't cancel the exercises because North Korea wasn't sincere? That explanation makes no sense. It would make sense to say that North Korea possibly snookered South Korea into believing Kim's sincerity.

[Morch]

On 5/16/2018 at 3:49 PM, sirineou said:

as a show of good faith 

 

That's ought to cut both ways. Did it?

[lannarebirth]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

 

 It would make sense to say that North Korea possibly snookered South Korea into believing Kim's sincerity.

 

Isn't that more or less the same as bargaining in bad faith?

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Isn't that more or less the same as bargaining in bad faith?

But that's not what you wrote. You said that south korea didn't cancel the exercises because north korea was bargaining in bad faith. If the South believed that, why did they so enthusiastically promote an exactly opposite version of that?

[lannarebirth]

Just now, bristolboy said:

But that's not what you wrote. You said that south korea didn't cancel the exercises because north korea was bargaining in bad faith. If the South believed that, why did they so enthusiastically promote an exactly opposite version of that?

 

Maybe they didn't believe it or maybe they suspected it. Who knows? What the South did know is that it was the US who would vet it and act on it if there was anything to act on. Maybe the US got snookered by South Korea. Who knows? Everything would appear to be still in flux so we'll have to wait till it plays out and then the journalists will give us versions of what happened targeted to their readership. 

[bristolboy]

30 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Maybe they didn't believe it or maybe they suspected it. Who knows? What the South did know is that it was the US who would vet it and act on it if there was anything to act on. Maybe the US got snookered by South Korea. Who knows? Everything would appear to be still in flux so we'll have to wait till it plays out and then the journalists will give us versions of what happened targeted to their readership. 

Your version of events entirely ignores South Korean domestic political repercussions. Already South Koreans are paying high prices for land along the demilitarized zone. Enthusiasm in the south is now high.

[lannarebirth]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Your version of events entirely ignores South Korean domestic political repercussions. Already South Koreans are paying high prices for land along the demilitarized zone. Enthusiasm in the south is now high.

 

I don't have a version of events. I'm telling you that you and me don't know for sure what has taken place, who said what , who will do what. The situation is in flux. You just have to wait and see how things turn out.

[lovelomsak]

11 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Because North Korea was not bargaining in good faith from the start.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-north-korea-flipped-and-bashed-the-us-before-the-trump-kim-summit-2018-5

If you believe that lie why did the nations even bother to keeping the dialogue going.  

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, lovelomsak said:

If you believe that lie why did the nations even bother to keeping the dialogue going.  

 

Because, in an unprecedented move, Trump agreed to a summit based only on verbal representations made by NK to SK. That is what kept the ball rolling. I don't fault him for that unless he got all the way to the summit before discovering the lack of good faith by NK.

[lovelomsak]

11 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Because, in an unprecedented move, Trump agreed to a summit based only on verbal representations made by NK to SK. That is what kept the ball rolling. I don't fault him for that unless he got all the way to the summit before discovering the lack of good faith by NK.

Do you really believe  your own reasoning?

  Lets go back to where we started then and  see if you make sense. 

   I ask why did SK  go ahead with the war games. You reply because they did not deal in good faith. Now you  make this statement (unless he got to the summit before discovering the lack of good faith)  

  So They do things because of lack of good faith.by Nk but they donot know yet that it is lack of good faith by NK  Yah right.

  

  

Edited May 18, 2018 by lovelomsak

[lannarebirth]

35 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

Do you really believe  your own reasoning?

  Lets go back to where we started then and  see if you make sense. 

   I ask why did SK  go ahead with the war games. You reply because they did not deal in good faith. Now you  make this statement (unless he got to the summit before discovering the lack of good faith)  

  So They do things because of lack of good faith.by Nk but they donot know yet that it is lack of good faith by NK  Yah right.

  

  

 

I don't think I replied with that answer to that question but you can show me if I'm wrong.

 

They didn't call off the war game or the sanctions because this is an agreement, if it is ever reached, that will happen because one side decides they are in an untenable position and submitting to the other sides terms is preferable to pressing their own and perhaps ending up in a much worse position. It is not a negotiation among equals. 

[bristolboy]

13 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

It is not a negotiation among equals. 

That depends upon who the players are and where they stand.

Edited May 18, 2018 by bristolboy

[lannarebirth]

25 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

That depends upon who the players are and where they stand.

Well, if China comes out from behind the curtain and puts its cards on the table, well then, yeah, its a whole 'nother thing. I doubt that is going to happen, but it might.

[Morch]

 

Seems some middle way was found.

 

US reportedly cancels B-52 bomber exercise with South Korea amid threats from North Korea

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/18/us-cancels-south-korea-military-exercise-amid-north-korea-threats-report.html

 

 

[bristolboy]

If anyone feels the need to indulge in a little schadenfreude, (the pleasure you get when things go badly for someone), just contemplate  how John Bolton must be feeling abput this..

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.   You can only quote 3 sentences and a link to the remainder of the article.  

[Jingthing]

It seems like "trump" is about to become Kim's big orange poodle from Queens.

 

 

Quote

 

WASHINGTON POST Kim Jong Un has President Trump right where he wants him

...

With less than a month to go before the much-anticipated summit between President Trump and North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un, we learned three important things last week. First, Kim isn’t embracing real “denuclearization.” Second, Trump likes Alfred Nobel better than he likes John Bolton. Third, and perhaps most alarming, Trump doesn’t know what he is talking about.

 

 

http://www.paywallnews.com/news/Opinion-|-Kim-Jong-Un-has-President-Trump-right-where-he-wants-him.BkhDb6h0f.html

[IsaanFam]

I am drinking a Heineken with a red star, looks very commie. Should I avoid that beer?

[Jingthing]

I am drinking a Heineken with a red star, looks very commie. Should I avoid that beer?

No but you should think twice before posting silly stuff like that.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Scott]

Troll post removed. 

[jackh]

On 5/16/2018 at 10:18 AM, Slip said:

So you changed your previously pro-Trump spiel in what way exactly?

Read s l o w l y. It might help you understand English. I have, always have, and always support our president.

That being said, I questioned his strategy at first. But I realize Trump is two steps ahead of my first feelings, sorry I doubted him. Not at any point did I suggest I do not support him. I have a right to my opinion as well.