Court decides: AirBnB illegal in Thailand for daily and weekly rental

[DrTuner]

Goodie. Crack down with no mercy, establish zones for hotels preferably way in the sticks and bus the Chinese herds there. That's what I call good progress.

[JAZZDOG]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Well, that's too bad.

As a consumer I much prefer Booking.com as I can not show or cancel with little or no fee.

And, in 10 years staying in 100's of hotels all over the world I have never called the hotel or not had a reservation when I did show up.

Maybe the "maybe you have a room, maybe not " is your policy which is sure a way to get bad reviews and chase away customers.

My point exactly, there are far too many "Quality" individuals like yourself that think it is perfectly OK to reserve a room and then no-show without the common decency of giving the hotel a heads up so they might be able to rent the room to someone else. Then there are the ones like you that beg to waive the cancelation fee on the day of the reservation after the hotel has turned away guests so as to honor your reservation. The audacity of someone who intentionally screws over people and then says "Well, that's too bad". Got a news flash for you, people that no-show and cancel cant give reviews and secondly you are the kind of customer I so much wish I could chase away and not waste my time with.  Another great thing about Airbnb is hosts are able to review guests. When receiving a reservation we can read the review and  cull out the undesirables. And yes, you are an undesirable if you take advantage of the system and just not show up or cancel at the last minute. It shows a total lack of respect and/or education.

[KittenKong]

I have used both Airbnb and booking.com as my hosting websites and to book when I travel. Difference is if it is peak season booking.com collects no deposit and therefore their cancelation/no show rate is near 70%. Small hotels have a hard time with that program and basically use those bookings like a walk in. Maybe you have a room, maybe not. If you want to make sure you will have a room pay up front with Airbnb. You arrive and go straight to your room. It is a far better company to deal with. With booking.com make sure to call the hotel or confirm on their website. Had 7 rooms thru booking no show just today that reserved in the last two days.

Incorrect.

Booking.com usually offer two prices: one where you pay on arrival and have the possibility of cancelling a day or two before the check-in date, and a lower price which is entirely prepaid and non-refundable. The amount due is charged at the time of booking or at some point between the time of booking and the check-in. And in case of a no-show or a cancellation after the permitted cancellation date they just charge you the price of the stay anyway.

I've stayed in hundreds of such rooms in several countries and have never had a single problem with a room not being available as booked. Nor have I ever been a no-show.

But I have never booked anything through Airbnb and probably never will, as the people who advertise on it generally appear very unprofessional. Also I dont like the way many of them charge extra fees for things that should be included, or ask for full payment by bank transfer in advance. Nuts to that.

[JAZZDOG]

9 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Incorrect.

Booking.com usually offer two prices: one where you pay on arrival and have the possibility of cancelling a day or two before the check-in date, and a lower price which is entirely prepaid and non-refundable. The amount due is charged at the time of booking or at some point between the time of booking and the check-in. And in case of a no-show or a cancellation after the permitted cancellation date they just charge you the price of the stay anyway.

I've stayed in hundreds of such rooms in several countries and have never had a single problem with a room not being available as booked. Nor have I ever been a no-show.

But I have never booked anything through Airbnb and probably never will, as the people who advertise on it generally appear very unprofessional. Also I dont like the way many of them charge extra fees for things that should be included, or ask for full payment by bank transfer in advance. Nuts to that.

Misinformed:

 

I deal with both dozens of times each week. There is no option for the guest on prices. The host determines if he requires a deposit or not, to be paid upfront or not at the time he sets up his account. If a host opts to get paid upfront he attracts far less reservations, booking.com even warns of this. I also disagree about Airbnb. They collect by CC and payout promptly. Airbnb guest are also much easier to deal with and stay longer, return emails, spend more money in the restaurant, better guests all the way around. Booking.com are mostly low budget, single night guests and like I posted earlier 70% of the time they no-show or cancel. Ask anyone that owns a hotel. I had 35 booking.com no-shows in May and not one from Airbnb and they charge less commission.

[Sir Dude]

A Hua Hin local court does not speak for the whole of Thailand imo.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Sir Dude

[theguyfromanotherforum]

On 5/23/2018 at 11:36 PM, Wake Up said:

More inconvenient for people who rent condos as a home long term and have to put up with you and short term holiday people. But not anymore. Yes yes yes yes yes. Goodbye and good riddance?????

 

Yep. I don't even own a condo here and I feel sorry for the owners who bought into buildings that are hosts to short term visitors who could care less about the property.

 

Buh bye

[utalkin2me]

I can help solve this problem by doing my part.

 

I can help any needy young, traveling individuals of the female variety with a shower and a nice hot meal, and a warm bed to sleep in. No charge of course. 

[KittenKong]

There is no option for the guest on prices. The host determines if he requires a deposit or not, to be paid upfront or not at the time he sets up his account. .....................

Booking.com are mostly low budget, single night guests and like I posted earlier 70% of the time they no-show or cancel. Ask anyone that owns a hotel.

Strange that I have stayed in so many hotels both inside and outside of Thailand, and have almost always had the option of paying a lower price upfront or paying a higher price later with the possibility of cancelling.

Maybe it has something to do with the quality of the hotel.

An example (not my booking):

https://d5bygqdtbohob.cloudfront.net/uploads/sites/3/2015/12/Great-Northern-Hotel-London-UK-Booking.com-2015-12-14-14-23-53.jpeg

[newnative]

2 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

A Hua Hin local court does not speak for the whole of Thailand imo.

      It bears remembering that the Hua Hin court was only ruling Airbnb illegal.  Now, what was the court basing its decision on?  Established Thai law for the whole of Thailand, in this case the Hotel Act.  

[Wake Up]

10 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

My point exactly, there are far too many "Quality" individuals like yourself that think it is perfectly OK to reserve a room and then no-show without the common decency of giving the hotel a heads up so they might be able to rent the room to someone else. Then there are the ones like you that beg to waive the cancelation fee on the day of the reservation after the hotel has turned away guests so as to honor your reservation. The audacity of someone who intentionally screws over people and then says "Well, that's too bad". Got a news flash for you, people that no-show and cancel cant give reviews and secondly you are the kind of customer I so much wish I could chase away and not waste my time with.  Another great thing about Airbnb is hosts are able to review guests. When receiving a reservation we can read the review and  cull out the undesirables. And yes, you are an undesirable if you take advantage of the system and just not show up or cancel at the last minute. It shows a total lack of respect and/or education.

Customer service is not your expertise my friend ——sorry for you and your customers. 

[JAZZDOG]

13 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

Customer service is not your expertise my friend ——sorry for you and your customers. 

Obviously you have limited expertise in the hotel business. Our hotel is rated 8.4 but we have no respect for those who try to take advantage. That's why we prefer Airbnb. 

[JAZZDOG]

3 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Strange that I have stayed in so many hotels both inside and outside of Thailand, and have almost always had the option of paying a lower price upfront or paying a higher price later with the possibility of cancelling.

Maybe it has something to do with the quality of the hotel.

An example (not my booking):

https://d5bygqdtbohob.cloudfront.net/uploads/sites/3/2015/12/Great-Northern-Hotel-London-UK-Booking.com-2015-12-14-14-23-53.jpeg

The reason is because the host opted for a program flexible cancelation whereas they receive less proceeds for the honor of having the platform do what is supposed to do in the first place. It's a gimmick. 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

There is nothing wrong with advertising Hotels and Guesthouses on Airbnb. Renting out condos is illegal. I recently saw a Facebook post of a guy I don’t know offering a unit in MY building for short term rental so I sent him a message advising him to take down the Facebook post or I would advise CM immigration and have advised management already. He replied with a threat and calling me a “Richard”.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 4:37 PM, KittenKong said:

Incorrect.

Booking.com usually offer two prices: one where you pay on arrival and have the possibility of cancelling a day or two before the check-in date, and a lower price which is entirely prepaid and non-refundable. The amount due is charged at the time of booking or at some point between the time of booking and the check-in. And in case of a no-show or a cancellation after the permitted cancellation date they just charge you the price of the stay anyway.

I've stayed in hundreds of such rooms in several countries and have never had a single problem with a room not being available as booked. Nor have I ever been a no-show.

But I have never booked anything through Airbnb and probably never will, as the people who advertise on it generally appear very unprofessional. Also I dont like the way many of them charge extra fees for things that should be included, or ask for full payment by bank transfer in advance. Nuts to that.

Booking.com require a credit card number and I'm sure they deduct the room cost if one doesn't cancel prior to the cut off time.

[JAZZDOG]

55 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Booking.com require a credit card number and I'm sure they deduct the room cost if one doesn't cancel prior to the cut off time.

Wrong, it is up  the host to try and collect and if successful (never) booking.com demands their commission.  I deal with them everyday. In fact many of the cards they get are bogus and used to book reservations to skirt immigration. I get literally hundreds of cancelations each month, I send three messages to guests to confirm ETA. If they don't respond their reservation is canceled. 

[KittenKong]

The reason is because the host opted for a program flexible cancelation whereas they receive less proceeds for the honor of having the platform do what is supposed to do in the first place. It's a gimmick.

Certainly not a gimmick from my point of view.

[KittenKong]

Booking.com require a credit card number and I'm sure they deduct the room cost if one doesn't cancel prior to the cut off time.

Well, yes. That's why there is a variable cut-off time for cancellations. Up to the client to respect the details of his booking and if he does so he will not be charged incorrectly.

I've spent thousands of GBP all over the world with booking.com (and hotels.com) and have never been charged incorrectly, and I have never had any sort of problem with any reservation either. YMMV.

[JAZZDOG]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

Well, yes. That's why there is a variable cut-off time for cancellations. Up to the client to respect the details of his booking and if he does so he will not be charged incorrectly.

I've spent thousands of GBP all over the world with booking.com (and hotels.com) and have never been charged incorrectly, and I have never had any sort of problem with any reservation either. YMMV.

Once again, in Thailand booking.com doesn't collect rents, guests pay when they arrive. They likewise do not collect for cancelations or no-shows, they leave this up to the host and in the unlikely event the host collects they want their commission.

Booking.com is only a platform to provide reservations. Throw it against the wall and if it sticks they get paid. Key to your comment is "UP TO CLIENT TO RESPECT THE DETAILS OF HIS BOOKINGS" . Fact is 3/4 don't honor the details with impunity.

Wonderful if you do but you are in the minority. Never a problem with cancelations with Airbnb and I get paid promptly. Go manage a hotel for 2 days and you will understand. I also use booking.com worldwide but always confirm directly with the hotel because I know the first to get bumped due to overbooking will be guest who haven't already paid. 

[JAZZDOG]

Just now, JAZZDOG said:

Once again, in Thailand booking.com doesn't collect rents, guests pay when they arrive. They likewise do not collect for cancelations or no-shows, they leave this up to the host and in the unlikely event the host collects they want their commission.

Booking.com is only a platform to provide reservations. Throw it against the wall and if it sticks they get paid. Key to your comment is "UP TO CLIENT TO RESPECT THE DETAILS OF HIS BOOKINGS" . Fact is 3/4 don't honor the details with impunity.

Wonderful if you do but you are in the minority. Never a problem with cancelations with Airbnb and I get paid promptly. Go manage a hotel for 2 days and you will understand. I also use booking.com worldwide but always confirm directly with the hotel because I know the first to get bumped due to overbooking will be guest who haven't already paid. 

What happens when a guest cancels or doesn't arrive at my property?

• Updated 17 days ago

Sometimes guests cancel their bookings or just don’t show up that day.

You don’t have to worry about being charged commission if that happens – you’ll only pay for guests who stay at your property. Just make sure to always let us know about the cancellation so the booking won't be included in your monthly invoice. You can do this easily using our system or ask the guest to click Cancel in their confirmation email.

As a way to reduce cancellations, you can ask guests for a deposit when they make a booking – something that you can set up with just a couple of clicks. You can also set up your own cancellation policies in the system, so if your guest cancels within a specified number of days from the arrival date, you can still charge them part (or all) of the booking fee.

No-shows

If a guest doesn’t arrive at all, the procedure is really easy. You just go on the Extranet or the Pulse app and mark the guest as a no-show. When you confirm that the guest didn't arrive, the booking will be canceled, and you won’t be charged any commission.

You can mark the guest as a no-show either in the Reservations tab on the Extranet or the Bookings tab in the Pulse app. Just click on a specific reservation and click Mark as a no-show.

The Mark as a no-show button is active for 48 hours, starting at 12:00 am (midnight) after the confirmed check-in date.

For more info on how to mark a no-show – read this article.

[KevinCorr]

On 5/16/2018 at 6:16 PM, Spock said:

I just booked an airbnb room in Bangkok last night in a condo for 18 nights beginning the end of June. The money has already been taken from my account. Can only hope that my stay is not affected. Never used airbnb before. Chose a bad time to try it.

Yes, they will rent them as long as they are allowed to post them on the AirBnB website. They suggest that when you arrive, don't tell. Just visiting a friend. As others said about the rules and laws, most don't care. (My pet peeve Thai crime is driving motorcycles on the sidewalk, even in busy areas such as The Emporium, Suk.). 

 

I am not making a judgement about the law at all. I understand why condo owners don't want the apt next door to be a tourist party room. People don't like that in any apartment in any country. That will have to be enforced on an individual basis by the residents. No government has that much time and money or desire to enforce it, except to shut down the online posted ads. 

 

I thind that it is true that some people use AirBnB in Thailand because the cleanliness of many Thai hotels leaves much improvement. Before you say that I stay in the dumps, I admit I don't use the high end but stay where there is a swimming pool, my minimum requirement. 

 

My last 4 times in Bangkok I stayed at the Green Bells, On Nut, now new owners call it the Qiu Hotel. I don't understand why a hotel such as this who uses Booking and Agoda also rents rooms on AirBnB? They provide plenty of ashtrays for the addicts who surround the swimming pool. Don't stay in a poolside room where the smokers sit. You won't see this at an AirBnB.

 

[flyingtlger]

I doubt it'll be enforced.

[KevinCorr]

On 5/21/2018 at 4:14 PM, newnative said:

Boo hoo

Brilliant and clever insight. (for a 12 year old)

[rexall]

23 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

There is nothing wrong with advertising Hotels and Guesthouses on Airbnb. Renting out condos is illegal. I recently saw a Facebook post of a guy I don’t know offering a unit in MY building for short term rental so I sent him a message advising him to take down the Facebook post or I would advise CM immigration and have advised management already. He replied with a threat and calling me a “Richard”.

Not quite correct.  No more guesthouses legally on Airband until and unless the current crisis is resolved.  There is currently a nation-wide crackdown on guesthouses which face imminent closure if the guesthouse owners cannot prevail on the gov to call a moratorium on enforcement while some solution can be worked out.Someone said 50 guesthouses on Krabi have been closed.  I just returned from Chiang Mai and 95% of the guesthouse fronts are shut. I assume there are still guests.  There were only a few at the Britannia where I stayed and they were only honoring bookings made last month. Old Town is dead. It's a pity because so many tourist operators (taxis, restaurants, tour operators, travel agents, laundries, massage places and so on) depend upon the guesthouses and have a symbiotic relationship decades old now.  It is really sad.  Budget travelers, go elsewhere!  Busloads of Chinese, come on down, spend a few dollars and go the hell home!

Even more "sinister," if the guesthouses are closed in Old Town and elsewhere in Thailand, businesses will fail, property values will drop, making the area ripe for Chinese and moneyed Thai developers to buy everything up, bulldoze the place, and replace with sterile, upscale crap, as god intended!

I anyone is concerned about this, I wold be grateful if you could SHARE this widely, tweet, facebook, vlog and blog about it. If the gov doesn't realize what an ill-conceived move this is in short order, it will be too late, and an entire Thailand tradition will pass away into memory.

Sigh!

[newnative]

8 minutes ago, rexall said:

Not quite correct.  No more guesthouses legally on Airband until and unless the current crisis is resolved.  There is currently a nation-wide crackdown on guesthouses which face imminent closure if the guesthouse owners cannot prevail on the gov to call a moratorium on enforcement while some solution can be worked out.Someone said 50 guesthouses on Krabi have been closed.  I just returned from Chiang Mai and 95% of the guesthouse fronts are shut. I assume there are still guests.  There were only a few at the Britannia where I stayed and they were only honoring bookings made last month. Old Town is dead. It's a pity because so many tourist operators (taxis, restaurants, tour operators, travel agents, laundries, massage places and so on) depend upon the guesthouses and have a symbiotic relationship decades old now.  It is really sad.  Budget travelers, go elsewhere!  Busloads of Chinese, come on down, spend a few dollars and go the hell home!

Even more "sinister," if the guesthouses are closed in Old Town and elsewhere in Thailand, businesses will fail, property values will drop, making the area ripe for Chinese and moneyed Thai developers to buy everything up, bulldoze the place, and replace with sterile, upscale crap, as god intended!

I anyone is concerned about this, I wold be grateful if you could SHARE this widely, tweet, facebook, vlog and blog about it. If the gov doesn't realize what an ill-conceived move this is in short order, it will be too late, and an entire Thailand tradition will pass away into memory.

Sigh!

   The Hotel Act has an exemption for small guesthouses.  Those that qualify don't need a hotel license.  Larger guesthouses do need to register.  I would rather see the authorities turn their attention to all the illegal daily condo rentals--a much bigger problem than unregistered guesthouses.

[rexall]

7 minutes ago, newnative said:

   The Hotel Act has an exemption for small guesthouses.  Those that qualify don't need a hotel license.  Larger guesthouses do need to register.  I would rather see the authorities turn their attention to all the illegal daily condo rentals--a much bigger problem than unregistered guesthouses.

I don't know all the details, but apparently there are certain requirements that make it difficult or impossible for the small operators to comply, if I understood correctly,  such as--according to the owner of the place I was staying--having 30% of the frontage as garden/open space, or something like that.  And a lot ofsimilar regulations that that are just not applicable to small, storefront operations, don't make sense are are difficult or impossible to comply with. This week, there are a loosely affiliated group of owners and their attorney dialoging  with as many gov agencies as will give them a meeting to appeal for some way for these businesses to become legal, regularized and brought into compliance.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Not quite correct.  No more guesthouses legally on Airband until and unless the current crisis is resolved.  There is currently a nation-wide crackdown on guesthouses which face imminent closure if the guesthouse owners cannot prevail on the gov to call a moratorium on enforcement while some solution can be worked out.Someone said 50 guesthouses on Krabi have been closed.  I just returned from Chiang Mai and 95% of the guesthouse fronts are shut. I assume there are still guests.  There were only a few at the Britannia where I stayed and they were only honoring bookings made last month. Old Town is dead. It's a pity because so many tourist operators (taxis, restaurants, tour operators, travel agents, laundries, massage places and so on) depend upon the guesthouses and have a symbiotic relationship decades old now.  It is really sad.  Budget travelers, go elsewhere!  Busloads of Chinese, come on down, spend a few dollars and go the hell home!

 

Even more "sinister," if the guesthouses are closed in Old Town and elsewhere in Thailand, businesses will fail, property values will drop, making the area ripe for Chinese and moneyed Thai developers to buy everything up, bulldoze the place, and replace with sterile, upscale crap, as god intended!

 

I anyone is concerned about this, I wold be grateful if you could SHARE this widely, tweet, facebook, vlog and blog about it. If the gov doesn't realize what an ill-conceived move this is in short order, it will be too late, and an entire Thailand tradition will pass away into memory.

 

Sigh!

While ago in Chiang Mai it was reported half the Hotels, including big ones, don’t have licenses let alone Guest Houses. I have no problem with the Airbnb concept, I would offer my own unit just that people who come to Thailand on vacation WILL NOT behave in a neighborly fashion and cause all kinds of problems. They were driven out of my building largely after many complaints of noise and not following simple rules. (Don’t slam doors and scream in hallway at 5AM, put rubbish in the bins not outside your door to stink and attract vermin Don’t have all night Karioki parties while people are trying to rest for school/work)

 

I read on Facebook just today by the way almost all the listings in Japan have been removed overnight as the government passed a law there all Airbnb style rentals MUST go through a registered management company starting this month.

 

Airbnb should do the same, cancel all condo and house rentals, as it is illegal in Thailand, as conformed by the courts to rent condos and houses short Term and these APPS are facilities of criminal conspiracy of tax evasion and harboring unreported foreign guests.

 

 

[mokwit]

That's the thing with AirBNB rentals - you get a level of person of the level you are deliberately paying to avoid having to live with.

[rexall]

Wait!  Wait!  It gets better and better!  Someone please confirm or deny, but info from a falang friend who builds and manages property in Pattaya.

He says that any foreigner who rents out anything must now  have a work permit (implementing an older law from 2006). Well, the only way to get a work permit under those circumstances is to form a company.  However, the cost of forming a company, having Thai partners, employing 4 Thais @ B9K per week and all the other costs exceed any rent you could collect on one or two condo units. In other words, for all practical purposes, you can't do it.  

I usually don't have much interest in or stick my nose into any of this, but I find this and the Airbandb and guesthouse issue very disappointing, even disturbing.

Sigh!

[DrTuner]

2 minutes ago, rexall said:

Wait!  Wait!  It gets better and better!  Someone please confirm or deny, but info from a falang friend who builds and manages property in Pattaya.

He says that any foreigner who rents out anything must now  have a work permit (implementing an older law from 2006). Well, the only way to get a work permit under those circumstances is to form a company.  However, the cost of forming a company, having Thai partners, employing 4 Thais @ B9K per week and all the other costs exceed any rent you could collect on one or two condo units. In other words, for all practical purposes, you can't do it.  

I usually don't have much interest in or stick my nose into any of this, but I find this and the Airbandb and guesthouse issue very disappointing, even disturbing.

Sigh!

Would sound logical, if you're running a hotel you need a company and necessary permits. I however doubt Thais could ever get their stuff together and actually enforce anything.

[stud858]

11 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Would sound logical, if you're running a hotel you need a company and necessary permits. I however doubt Thais could ever get their stuff together and actually enforce anything.

if they wanted to enforce, it would be easy. many ads for per day rental on internet.as for foreigners renting.  Don't do it.  go through an agent so you are not the one renting or considered as working.