Court decides: AirBnB illegal in Thailand for daily and weekly rental

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

Most condos already have short-term rental prohibitions in their condo by-laws.  Plus, you have conveniently ignored the fact that short-term condo rentals are illegal in Thailand also by Thai Law.  The security and noise issues are just 2 of the many reasons why laws have been written that recognize that hotel guests are different from people living in residential units.  

Point taken, but lets not forget we also cannot stop the way quests visiting act

[malibukid]

On 5/16/2018 at 3:19 PM, Athens said:

Forget AirBnb, book a Hotel, just check thy have a valid hotel Licens. remember 24 h reporting is done by Hotel. Even Airbnb has to comply with Thai Law operating in Thailand.

airbnb sucks, their host are all amateurs. stay at a real hotel or guest house with experienced staff.  just rented a place in California through them and no staff at property to help me with anything.  asked for a refund.  they are also driving up local rental prices everywhere.  who would want to stay in someones home anyway unless you know them. weird

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I don't buy all this crap that the purpose of wanting to get rid of Air B&B is because of owners complaining of security and too much noise issues in buildings, so step up security, and noise, well that's a world wide issue isn't it, that's why we police forces and security guards, and if the cops aren't doing their jobs well complain to the top or sell up.

 

If its that much of a "real issue" which I don't believe as opposed to big hotel companies complaining that they are loosing business because Air B&B is providing an alternative, i.e. much cheaper accommodation which is fair competition in an open market, then they should reduce their rates or not charge for extra bedding, I mean seriously, how can they justify 800-1200 baht per night for a fold up bed on rollers, do they pay their underpaid house keeping staff more for making those extra beds, I think not.

 

Fact of the matter is hotels have for far too long been ripping customers off with all the extras, and now that Air B&B is providing open and fair competition to the market they are crying foul, like I said, I saved 20,000 baht in Air B&B accommodation and loving it, our family keeps the noise level down wherever we go, its just common sense and curtousy for others residing in their properties, isn't it.

 

The consumers want it and it will be here to stay, trust me on that one.

 

The only way you can stop Air B&B in a strata condominium unit set up is to create a by-law whereby the majority of the owners have their meeting and vote on creating a by-law which states that no short term-lettings allowed in the building, and that is their call.

 

Your always going to get a clown who makes noise in any situation, hotel, motel holiday inn

 

 

 

 

AirBnB is a great idea if everyone behaved like you and your family but MOST do not.

 

AirBnB quickly became a problem in our building (older / established) and management mounted a crackdown after many complaints from long term residents. It was not previously addressed in the bylaws as short term rentals are clearly illegal under Thai law.

 

The Real Issue. People who are on vacation in Thailand do not act in a neighbourly fashion. They cause nothing but problems with noise (even completely avoidable things like shouting in hallways at 5AM and slamming doors), not following simple rules like putting garbage in bins (and not hallways to smell and attract vermin) , and causing problems for the Condo staff who are underpaid and most don't even speak English suddenly becoming concierges for owners' paid guests.  Tourists belong in hotels and guesthouses.

 

If people could behave properly and there was a way to do it  not breaking Thai law I would have happily offered my unit when not there but it is illegal. I would not rent to Chinese or Indians either sure AirBnB Corp. would have a problem with that but it has nothing to do with racism it is just common sense.

 

Edited May 19, 2018 by ChiangMaiLightning2143

[4MyEgo]

24 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

AirBnB is a great idea if everyone behaved like you and your family but MOST do not.

 

AirBnB quickly became a problem in our building (older / established) and management mounted a crackdown after many complaints from long term residents. It was not previously addressed in the bylaws as short term rentals are clearly illegal under Thai law.

 

The Real Issue. People who are on vacation in Thailand do not act in a neighbourly fashion. They cause nothing but problems with noise (even completely avoidable things like shouting in hallways at 5AM and slamming doors), not following simple rules like putting garbage in bins (and not hallways to smell and attract vermin) , and causing problems for the Condo staff who are underpaid and most don't even speak English suddenly becoming concierges for owners' paid guests.  Tourists belong in hotels and guesthouses.

 

If people could behave properly and there was a way to do it  not breaking Thai law I would have happily offered my unit when not there but it is illegal. I would not rent to Chinese or Indians either sure AirBnB Corp. would have a problem with that but it has nothing to do with racism it is just common sense.

 

Point taken.

 

I didn't think it was that big of a problem, I am therefor obviously wrong and accept that others do not act as our family does, which spoils it for most, hence the problem now, and obviously it is against Thai Law.

 

There is no discrimination with regard to Chinese and Indian's, having been a property manager many years ago, they wouldn't have made it past the application process, however other would see your comment and mine as discrimination, because they don't see the condition of the properties when they leave and the smell, its not one rotten egg, spoiling it for all rotten eggs, its just the way they live and there is nothing wrong with that, unless your a landlord. 

[Airalee]

I looked into buying a condo that opened just over a year ago.  Looking at 3 different sites, I found 10 (excluding any overlap) out of the 60 units listed for holiday rentals. All but two of them were wide open with no future dates booked.  Most had very few, if any ratings at all from prior holiday renters leading me to believe that investing in a condo for short term rentals is hardly the money maker it is purported to be.

 

There were also many units still available for sale from the developer and even a few listed for long term rent and “flips” on other websites.

 

This is one of the primary reasons issues that prevents me from becoming a homeowner but I’m sure that the developer would prefer to sell more units to fools who think they might make a fortune through rentals than a few to people who actually want a home to live in full time.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Airalee

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Point taken.

 

I didn't think it was that big of a problem, I am therefor obviously wrong and accept that others do not act as our family does, which spoils it for most, hence the problem now, and obviously it is against Thai Law.

 

There is no discrimination with regard to Chinese and Indian's, having been a property manager many years ago, they wouldn't have made it past the application process, however other would see your comment and mine as discrimination, because they don't see the condition of the properties when they leave and the smell, its not one rotten egg, spoiling it for all rotten eggs, its just the way they live and there is nothing wrong with that, unless your a landlord. 

I have a friend in property management recently uploaded a pic to Fbook from 1 month Chinese renters. They took plumbers' wrenches to the sink faucets and bath fixtures and stole them.

 

Shocking? "No it has happened 5 or 6 times" he says. They don't discriminate against Indians either they have certain properties suitable to rent to them.

Edited May 19, 2018 by ChiangMaiLightning2143

[newnative]

2 hours ago, Airalee said:

I looked into buying a condo that opened just over a year ago.  Looking at 3 different sites, I found 10 (excluding any overlap) out of the 60 units listed for holiday rentals. All but two of them were wide open with no future dates booked.  Most had very few, if any ratings at all from prior holiday renters leading me to believe that investing in a condo for short term rentals is hardly the money maker it is purported to be.

 

There were also many units still available for sale from the developer and even a few listed for long term rent and “flips” on other websites.

 

This is one of the primary reasons issues that prevents me from becoming a homeowner but I’m sure that the developer would prefer to sell more units to fools who think they might make a fortune through rentals than a few to people who actually want a home to live in full time.

   I agree with most of your points.  I think there will be many people who buy a condo for the purpose of daily rentals who will soon find that it is not rented as often as they would like it to be and the costs of managing a single daily rental hardly make it worthwhile. 

    I do think with some searching you can find condo projects that have few or no daily rentals due to good management and the mix of resident-owners and long-term renters in the project. You might concentrate on condos that are more than 4 years old and initially had possibly less investment buyers focused on daily rentals.  Some of the new projects in Pattaya have a much higher percentage of these daily rental investors and if there is a large vocal group of them management is likely to cater to them.

[stud858]

Room 4 rent.

1 year rental contract to be signed.

No exit penalties apply.

No deposit required. 

....There it is.. 1 day rental under the guise of a 1 year rental..

Made legal again with the help of sneaky documentation much like how foreigners can buy houses and pretend they own them. 

 

 

[balo]

airbnb sucks, their host are all amateurs. stay at a real hotel or guest house with experienced staff.  just rented a place in California through them and no staff at property to help me with anything.  asked for a refund.  they are also driving up local rental prices everywhere.  who would want to stay in someones home anyway unless you know them. weird

Maybe weird for you but not for many of us. I don't need service or any staff around me. I pay for a spacious apartment, not a hotel room. A place that you can feel like a home away from home. No stress , most places are clean. Of course you need to do your research first and read reviews to make sure you do not end up in a sxxxhole.

Cheaper than a hotel, more space, nice TV and furniture, kitchen so you can prepare your own breakfast. All this is important for a lot of us.

[ChidlomDweller]

2 hours ago, stud858 said:

Room 4 rent.

1 year rental contract to be signed.

No exit penalties apply.

No deposit required. 

....There it is.. 1 day rental under the guise of a 1 year rental..

Made legal again with the help of sneaky documentation much like how foreigners can buy houses and pretend they own them. 

 

 

Good luck stopping a determined government with transparent dodges like this.  I wouldn't place a 5-10M Baht bet on it.  

 

Thailand has plenty of good and cheap hotels already, so it's not like AirBnB is relieving an obstacle to tourism growth like in some countries.    

 

I get it, probably lots of apartment owners on this thread who own a holiday apartment and AirBnB is an easy way to make revenue from it when not in Thailand.  Also pure investors and AirBnB entrepreneurs / superhosts.  Would be nice if you all at least specify upfront what's your financial stake in it.  Mine: none whatsoever, except perhaps that I'm moving to a city (outside Thailand) where rents for regular folks are being pushed up because monthly revenue on AirBnB is easily double.  

 

Even long before this, I've believed government policy should be first and foremost to allow the average citizen to afford a roof over his head, not to look after the interests of already well-off property investors, many of which aren't even locals.  I've seen this bad film before in London and Singapore, so that's where I'm coming from.

Edited May 19, 2018 by ChidlomDweller

[ChidlomDweller]

20 minutes ago, balo said:

Maybe weird for you but not for many of us. I don't need service or any staff around me. I pay for a spacious apartment, not a hotel room. A place that you can feel like a home away from home. No stress , most places are clean. Of course you need to do your research first and read reviews to make sure you do not end up in a sxxxhole.

Cheaper than a hotel, more space, nice TV and furniture, kitchen so you can prepare your own breakfast. All this is important for a lot of us.

Agreed that as a tourist it can be great value.  But spare a thought for the university graduate on 30k a month who can't afford to buy a small condo because of house price inflation, the office worker facing a longer commute because rents in central areas are way too expensive or all the good supply gets immediately taken off the market by AirBnB entrepreneurs, or the regular residents who suffer the side effect from the place being turned into a hotel.  

Edited May 19, 2018 by ChidlomDweller

[bkk6060]

7 minutes ago, ChidlomDweller said:

Agreed that as a tourist it can be great value.  But spare a thought for the university graduate on 30k a month who can't afford to buy a small condo because of house price inflation, the office worker facing a longer commute because rents in central areas are way to expensive, or the regular residents who suffer the side effect from the place being turned into a hotel.  

And on the big picture nobody really cares about them.

[JAZZDOG]

2 hours ago, stud858 said:

Room 4 rent.

1 year rental contract to be signed.

No exit penalties apply.

No deposit required. 

....There it is.. 1 day rental under the guise of a 1 year rental..

Made legal again with the help of sneaky documentation much like how foreigners can buy houses and pretend they own them. 

 

 

That house of cards comes down as soon as wash, rinse and repeat 3-4 times a month and your condo dweller next door drops a dime and your busted for various infractions including working without a permit as now you have a business.  although illegal. There are many more profitable ways to break the law.

[ChidlomDweller]

1 minute ago, bkk6060 said:

And on the big picture nobody really cares about them.

True, in the end money will decide this.  But I'm speaking the case of the downtrodden here.  Eric Bahrt is unavailable today. 

[bkk6060]

18 minutes ago, ChidlomDweller said:

True, in the end money will decide this.  But I'm speaking the case of the downtrodden here.  Eric Bahrt is unavailable today. 

No problem not trying to be mean.

Just the fact yes, all about the money.

[JAZZDOG]

14 minutes ago, ChidlomDweller said:

Agreed that as a tourist it can be great value.  But spare a thought for the university graduate on 30k a month who can't afford to buy a small condo because of house price inflation, the office worker facing a longer commute because rents in central areas are way too expensive or all the good supply gets immediately taken off the market by AirBnB entrepreneurs, or the regular residents who suffer the side effect from the place being turned into a hotel.  

Never will buy into the notion of income redistribution which is what you propose. It is a slippery slope and once you start sliding you go to the bottom.

 

[utalkin2me]

2 hours ago, balo said:

Maybe weird for you but not for many of us. I don't need service or any staff around me. I pay for a spacious apartment, not a hotel room. A place that you can feel like a home away from home. No stress , most places are clean. Of course you need to do your research first and read reviews to make sure you do not end up in a sxxxhole.

Cheaper than a hotel, more space, nice TV and furniture, kitchen so you can prepare your own breakfast. All this is important for a lot of us.

that guy obviously doesnt know how to read a review lol. i find say amazin reviews can be decieving but airbnb reviews are great. youll get people that say straight up it is noisy etc

[JAZZDOG]

30 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

that guy obviously doesnt know how to read a review lol. i find say amazin reviews can be decieving but airbnb reviews are great. youll get people that say straight up it is noisy etc

My guest house uses all the hosting sites. AirBnB is far and away the best, most professional. Their follow up is good, they payout on time. Their review system is far superior in that hosts can review guests to cull out problems. They demand deposits which weeds out the bottom feeders. 

[ChidlomDweller]

1 hour ago, JAZZDOG said:

Never will buy into the notion of income redistribution which is what you propose. It is a slippery slope and once you start sliding you go to the bottom.

 

At that point it's arguing about values so we'll have to disagree.  I'm not a believer in a completely unfettered free market, and believe that to be its own slippery slope with long-term tragedy of commons traps and 1%ers gradually entrenching themselves and corrupting government.  The latter is a slippery too and we're already on it.  So I prefer pragmatism over ideological purity.  Strictly speaking you're correct what I'm arguing is "income redistribution", but then so is putting a cap on what surgeons and pharmaceutical companies are allowed to charge, or having laws against price discrimination, which most civilized countries have.

[brucec64]

Room 4 rent.
1 year rental contract to be signed.
No exit penalties apply.
No deposit required. 
....There it is.. 1 day rental under the guise of a 1 year rental..
Made legal again with the help of sneaky documentation much like how foreigners can buy houses and pretend they own them. 
 
 

The law looks at intent. Do this a number of times in serial and those contracts will mean nothing, and you might get fraud thrown on top of it.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Airalee]

10 minutes ago, ChidlomDweller said:

At that point it's arguing about values so we'll have to disagree.  I'm not a believer in a completely unfettered free market, and believe that to be its own slippery slope with long-term tragedy of commons traps and 1%ers gradually entrenching themselves and corrupting government.  The latter is a slippery too and we're already on it.  So I prefer pragmatism over ideological purity.  Strictly speaking you're correct what I'm arguing is "income redistribution", but then so is putting a cap on what surgeons and pharmaceutical companies are allowed to charge, or having laws against price discrimination, which most civilized countries have.

The only income/wealth redistribution will be from the merely rich (i.e. the people who own a few Airbnb condos) to the superrich.  The laws will probably be changed back once the superrich have bought up all the foreclosed condos (a la Blackrock and Berkshire Hathaway) once the negatively amortizing mortgage loans reset and recast.

 

This of course won’t affect the expats who purchased with cash other than having to compete with the economies of scale that the big players have.  Kind of like the mom’n’pops vs Walmart.  That is of course, if the expats (who depend on the rental income for their own living expenses) don’t have to firesale their condos to the big boys in order to keep financially afloat. 

[JAZZDOG]

19 minutes ago, ChidlomDweller said:

At that point it's arguing about values so we'll have to disagree.  I'm not a believer in a completely unfettered free market, and believe that to be its own slippery slope with long-term tragedy of commons traps and 1%ers gradually entrenching themselves and corrupting government.  The latter is a slippery too and we're already on it.  So I prefer pragmatism over ideological purity.  Strictly speaking you're correct what I'm arguing is "income redistribution", but then so is putting a cap on what surgeons and pharmaceutical companies are allowed to charge, or having laws against price discrimination, which most civilized countries have.

Of course I will respect your right to your opinion but to support your position comparing someone renting their house for extra income to capping what doctors and drug companies are allowed to charge is pretty weak. Restricting ones rights to Airbnb to rent their house because it is effective ? What's next rent controls so people can live in more desirable locations they couldn't otherwise afford? The 1%ers are there for a good reason just as the ones that can't afford what they want are where there at for a good reason. 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Airalee said:

The only income/wealth redistribution will be from the merely rich (i.e. the people who own a few Airbnb condos) to the superrich.  The laws will probably be changed back once the superrich have bought up all the foreclosed condos (a la Blackrock and Berkshire Hathaway) once the negatively amortizing mortgage loans reset and recast.

 

This of course won’t affect the expats who purchased with cash other than having to compete with the economies of scale that the big players have.  Kind of like the mom’n’pops vs Walmart.  That is of course, if the expats (who depend on the rental income for their own living expenses) don’t have to firesale their condos to the big boys in order to keep financially afloat. 

"The laws will probably be changed back..."   Actually, the Thai law against short-term rentals wasn't changed.  The law was there long before the ruling on Airbnb and is still there after the ruling.  

 

[DrTuner]

Having been house hunting lately I found out the short time rental scourge is not limited to condos. Many "villas" in Pattaya are also being bought by the Chinese under company name and rented out illegally as hotels. One of the "premier" villages I went to see was ailing and one house had practically been destroyed by uncaring Chinese. Imagine throwing 10M+ to a house and next up, neighbors are spitting mainland Chinese that won't give a shit about any rules. The cancer is spreading to all parts of Pattaya.

[CLW]

Just about to book a villa for 8 persons for upcoming trip on Airbnb.

[DrTuner]

1 minute ago, CLW said:

Just about to book a villa for 8 persons for upcoming trip on Airbnb.

Right, thank you for confirming my findings.

 

 Major caveat to those buying a house, airbnb joints are the new Thai karaoke pubs. Keep extreme distance and make sure puuyai enforces rules with iron hand. You've been warned.

[CLW]

Right, thank you for confirming my findings.
 
 Major caveat to those buying a house, airbnb joints are the new Thai karaoke pubs. Keep extreme distance and make sure puuyai enforces rules with iron hand. You've been warned.

Not sure what you want to tell me?
Everyone in your opinion behaving badly, loud, disturbing the neighbours and leave the house in a complete mess?

[DrTuner]

2 hours ago, CLW said:

Not sure what you want to tell me?
Everyone in your opinion behaving badly, loud, disturbing the neighbours and leave the house in a complete mess?

Wasn't to you but general public. If there's even a small risk of getting an illegal hotel as neighbour, avoid buying at all costs. Some are bound to be complete <deleted> and once the property gets trashed, the illegal boarders just get worse.

 

If I'd find airbnb happening in my village, I'd make sure the owner gets nabbed. NIMBY. Luckily, no sign of it. Yet.

[CLW]

Wasn't to you but general public. If there's even a small risk of getting an illegal hotel as neighbour, avoid buying at all costs. Some are bound to be complete and once the property gets trashed, the illegal boarders just get worse.
 
If I'd find airbnb happening in my village, I'd make sure the owner gets nabbed. NIMBY. Luckily, no sign of it. Yet.

Understand now.
But you have good and bad neighbours everywhere.
And in case of holiday makers just for a few days instead of permanent residents.

[Airalee]

45 minutes ago, CLW said:

Understand now.
But you have good and bad neighbours everywhere.
And in case of holiday makers just for a few days instead of permanent residents.

I’ve had far more good neighbors than bad.  And the bad neighbors can usually come to a compromise.  

 

With holiday makers, the temporary nature of their stay is what creates the problem and there is potentially a never ending stream of them.  I understand that holiday makers are on holiday and that this is their time to “blow off some steam” or so to speak.  But there is little chance of coming to any sort of compromise with them as the reality is that most of them just don’t give a **** because they’re gonna be out of there in a few days.  Lather, rinse, repeat.