How to say fall down

[EricTh]

 

How to say 'if I accidentally fall down'.

 

Fall down here means fall on the floor.

 

[PatOngo]

Owwww….Loong Loi!...…….orrr horrr!

Edited May 18, 2018 by PatOngo

[surfdog]

ล้ม lom - is faint (then fall) more of older people, you know the heat and diet here older people faint very freqently.

ตกพื้น - tok puun - fall to the floor

ลื่น - slip (on the floor)

บังเอิญ - bung ern - accidently - adverb

would precede any of the 3 verbs above but not really necessary, nobody intentionally falls, faints, or slips :)


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[surfdog]

23 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Owwww….Loong Loi!...…….orrr horrr!

อ้าว! ลงเลย โอ้โห-  specifically the underlined - 'long lery/loi/wery'

If you said like this to somebody it would be a bit rude, like laughing at somebody falling down.

 

E.g. -- Whoah!  down he/she/they goes, unbelievable!

 

In the context of watching somebody fall it works, but it is more like 'go down,'  you would tell your kid who is standing on a table -  ลงเลย  - = Get down

Asking if the person has come down from the mountain yet?

ยังไม่ลง(เลย) - He/She/They haven't come down yet.

[surfdog]

 'if I accidentally fall down'.

 

Sorry just noticed you had an 'if' in there.. I would need more context to translate the 'If' there are several ways of presenting theoretical situations in Thai, or at least give me a proper English sentence to begin with.  Theoreticals use the past tense, you would need "fell' and also the rest of the sentence: "If + S + V₂, then _________"

[PatOngo]

1 hour ago, surfdog said:

อ้าว! ลงเลย โอ้โห-  specifically the underlined - 'long lery/loi/wery'

If you said like this to somebody it would be a bit rude, like laughing at somebody falling down.

 

E.g. -- Whoah!  down he/she/they goes, unbelievable!

 

In the context of watching somebody fall it works, but it is more like 'go down,'  you would tell your kid who is standing on a table -  ลงเลย  - = Get down

Asking if the person has come down from the mountain yet?

ยังไม่ลง(เลย) - He/She/They haven't come down yet.

.….isn't that common practise?

[MaeJoMTB]

Taa tock din 

If fall ground

[surfdog]

1 minute ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Taa tock din 

If fall ground

ถ้าตกดิน - Din would limit you to only dirt, one translation could be 'ground' but it would exclude paved areas, floors, tile, concrete, etc.

If the situation you are proposing is hypothetical and you need to the listener to really hear out your theoretical situation you would want to use  สมมุติว่า - "Som-mut wa," or if you are formally educated like Adam Bradshaw, you would only use ถ้าหาก 

 

 

[MaeJoMTB]

6 minutes ago, surfdog said:

ถ้าตกดิน - Din would limit you to only dirt, one translation could be 'ground' but it would exclude paved areas, floors, tile, concrete, etc.

If the situation you are proposing is hypothetical and you need to the listener to really hear out your theoretical situation you would want to use  สมมุติว่า - "Som-mut wa," or if you are formally educated like Adam Bradshaw, you would only use ถ้าหาก 

Most of the Thais I know use 'din' to mean ground.

You tink too mutt!

[surfdog]

41 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Most of the Thais I know use 'din' to mean ground.

You tink too mutt!

yes ground is a correct translation, it just excludes 'indoor' areas or tiled, paved, concrete floors, etc.  Depending on where you are living, everything is 'outdoors' and nothing wrong with that :)

 

 

[eric67]

It depends on how you fall...

 

ล้ม lóm is to fall from an upright position, to tumble (it's got nothing to do with fainting, that is เป็นลม bpen lom), you use this one when you stumble and fall down walking or riding a bike

 

ตก dtòk is to fall straight down from a certain height, like when you fall from a tree

[surfdog]

thanks for challenging that, I have a linguistics degree so that was the fun part of learning, as people challenging each others conception of language and I find it interesting. this type of conversation is what I did for 4 years, so don’t take
offense please on contradiction.

So, I always understood เป็นลม as a feeling of about to faint, in using conversation you could say ร้อนมาก แม่จะเป็นลม

I have never heard it used in describing a person who has already fainted.

But according to my dictionary เป็นลม ‘to faint’ but editor avoided classifying as a verb... so you are correct, but I would not be confident usimg myself
personally, because I tend to pick up my Thai from conversation, and have never heard it used as a verb

ล้ม also has definition of collapse, and difference betweem collapsing from the heat vs fainting from the heat seems 0, but with enough proofs in context some differences could arise but can not think off off hand.






I would use ตก as the general catch all of falling down, but replace im case of fainting, collapsing, slipping.

ตกดิน has the primary and only definition of sun setting in my dictionary, but I still think it can apply to falling down in the dirt


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[surfdog]

just for fun in south to fall down we say “พลัด” It’s for like accidental falls like tripping, motercycle crash, but not for fainting, collapsing, or slipping.

Wondering now if I fell out of a tree would they still say ตก here or พลัด.

There is likely other regional words for falling down, we could add to this thread to make it “THE #1 resource of everything you need to know about falling down in Thailand”


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[eric67]

Obviously both ล้ม and ตก have several related meanings.

 

But I’d say ล้ม is the general word for falling when you are standing up, walking, riding a bike, etc. 

พลาดล้ม “to fall by mistake” could be what the OP is looking for.

 

For ตก you really have to fall down from something. The RID gives the examples ตกบันได to fall from the stairs, and ตกต้นไม้ to fall from a tree.

 

 

What this girl is doing is ล้ม, if she fell off the stage down to the floor that would be ตก

 

Then there are more specific words like สะดุด to trip over something and fall, or idioms like จับกบ, lit. to catch a frog (imagine the position you’re in when you try to catch a frog and you’ll see the connection :)

 

Hadn’t heard of พลัด before, apparently it gets used in Central Thai too. I’ll look out for that one, see if I hear it somewhere...

Edited May 19, 2018 by eric67

[surfdog]

that video is hilarious! I’m an <deleted> for thinking that I guess.

Can you not “ล้มบันได” as well? Believe I heard that before.

I was at tiger temple with the 1200 stairs up the mountain and this lady fainted at step 250 or so and busted her head open. Now I know I heard ‘lom’ but not sure if heard ล้ม or ลม but definitely not เป็นลม

พลัด seems like is just southern spelling of พลาด?

สะดุด heard before, sounds specific to tripping then?


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[Sweet memory 80s]

22 hours ago, surfdog said:

So, I always understood เป็นลม as a feeling of about to faint, in using conversation you could say ร้อนมาก แม่จะเป็นลม

I have never heard it used in describing a person who has already fainted.

But according to my dictionary เป็นลม ‘to faint’ but editor avoided classifying as a verb... so you are correct, but I would not be confident usimg myself
personally, because I tend to pick up my Thai from conversation, and have never heard it used as a verb




 

"I have never heard it used in describing a person who has already fainted."

 

Yes everybody use it, just simply say เป็นลม no need of เป็นลมแล้ว  unless you need to extend the description of the context or your feeling but need to put ไป altogether as เป็นลมไปแล้ว.

เป็นลม is a thai verb, that's correct and can be either already fainted or is fainting but not likely use for going to faint.  

[EricTh]

23 hours ago, eric67 said:

It depends on how you fall...

 

ล้ม lóm is to fall from an upright position, to tumble (it's got nothing to do with fainting, that is เป็นลม bpen lom), you use this one when you stumble and fall down walking or riding a bike

 

ตก dtòk is to fall straight down from a certain height, like when you fall from a tree

This explanation is the clearest so far.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2018 by EricTh

[EricTh]

On 5/19/2018 at 7:54 AM, surfdog said:

 'if I accidentally fall down'.

 

Sorry just noticed you had an 'if' in there.. I would need more context to translate the 'If' there are several ways of presenting theoretical situations in Thai, or at least give me a proper English sentence to begin with.  Theoreticals use the past tense, you would need "fell' and also the rest of the sentence: "If + S + V₂, then _________"

Yes, I know we use past tense in theoretical situations, I was just being lazy. The context is....

 

"If I accidentally fell down while walking, I might get injured by the sharp object protruding from the ground."

 

Is this sentence considered upper intermediate level? My Thai is not good enough to make a complete sentence.

Edited May 20, 2018 by EricTh

[tgeezer]

เป็นลม looks like an explanation to me,  similar to เป็นหวัด describing the condition of a person so not likely found in a Thai -Thai dictionary. The problem is a condition of unconsciousness.  This description applied to someone who has fainted is fair enough and more accurate than ตก. When someone has fainted, often people say “Stand back give her some air” is that perhaps why fainting might be associated with ลม?

 

To declare that this word our that word cannot possibly apply is wrong in my view, like a ‘Chinese whisper’ language changes all the time, sometimes from people trying to be creative and novel and sometimes from misunderstanding, wrong today could be correct tomorrow if it catches on. 

 

[surfdog]

2 hours ago, tgeezer said:

เป็นลม looks like an explanation to me,  similar to เป็นหวัด describing the condition of a person so not likely found in a Thai -Thai dictionary. The problem is a condition of unconsciousness.  This description applied to someone who has fainted is fair enough and more accurate than ตก. When someone has fainted, often people say “Stand back give her some air” is that perhaps why fainting might be associated with ลม?

 

To declare that this word our that word cannot possibly apply is wrong in my view, like a ‘Chinese whisper’ language changes all the time, sometimes from people trying to be creative and novel and sometimes from misunderstanding, wrong today could be correct tomorrow if it catches on. 

 

one of my professors would say 'language is fluid' but at the same time tell people that some language can't exist because it isn't in his Oxford grammar book.  :)  

 

 

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

Yes, I know we use past tense in theoretical situations, I was just being lazy. The context is....

 

"If I accidentally fell down while walking, I might get injured by the sharp object protruding from the ground."

 

Is this sentence considered upper intermediate level? My Thai is not good enough to make a complete sentence.

actually as soon as I typed that I realized there are many situations where a present tense verb could be used if the situation is immediate.. e.g. "If I fall down, please call an ambulance."  

 

There is several ways of translating that sentence... I'm afraid one would need more context, like mentioned before, where you fall, on what, makes a difference, like if it was the road, then say the road, or sidewalk, etc.  Also is the situation immediate, or is hypothetical, like is the conversation about bad sidewalks in Thailand you are having at your house, or are you walking, see that disaster waiting to happen, flag down a policeman to take a look?  Explaining to him, "Hey what would happen if I fell on that sharp piece of rebar there.?"

 

And do you really talk like that?  Your sentence looks very generic, thus it is lacking the emotion or context to translate it well.

 

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, surfdog said:

 

There is several ways of translating that sentence... I'm afraid one would need more context, like mentioned before, where you fall, on what, makes a difference, like if it was the road, then say the road, or sidewalk, etc. 

 

 

What I am trying to say is that there are lots of these sharp objects protruding from the ground along the road that I walk along. They were left behind by careless construction workers, I am afraid that I might fall down accidentally and get pierced by these sharp objects so I want them removed. They don't have seem to have much safety precautions in Thailand.

 

Edited May 20, 2018 by EricTh

[surfdog]

9 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

What I am trying to say is that there are lots of these sharp objects protruding from the ground along the road that I walk along. They were left behind by careless construction workers, I am afraid that I might fall down accidentally and get pierced by these sharp objects so I want them removed. They don't have seem to have much safety precautions in Thailand.

 

you mean rebar? - locally the guys who build my house called it เหล็กอ้อย, or you talking about aluminum sheet roofing?  You might want to call it เศษสังกะสี - aluminum scraps.  Keep in mind สังกะสี translates as zinc, but I think of those sheets as aluminum.. I am not an expert.  I guess many are also galvanized steel?  

 

Both are worth quite a bit of money, I think this problem solves itself.  That is a gold mine, worth so much more than plastic bottles.  They left it behind as a donation to the homeless.

 

This seems much more like a situation for complaining:

ทำไมเหล็กอ้อยยังออกถนนครับ อันตรายมากครับ

Why is there rebar still coming out of the road?  It's very dangerous.

 

but reading it again.. the rebar is not coming out of the road or curb is it?  It is just scattered along a dirt path?  The sentence above would not be correct then.

Edited May 20, 2018 by surfdog

[EricTh]

45 minutes ago, surfdog said:

 

This seems much more like a situation for complaining:

ทำไมเหล็กอ้อยยังออกถนนครับ อันตรายมากครับ

Why is there rebar still coming out of the road?  It's very dangerous.

 

 

When you tell Thai people that 'it's dangerous', they don't understand why it is dangerous unless you give some specifics why it is dangerous like in my original sentence.

 

I've seen many Thai play with their handphone while riding a bike, talking on the phone while driving their cars at very slow speed and blocking traffic from behind, if you talk to them it's dangerous, they don't understand why it's dangerous. It's just like telling smokers that smoking is dangerous but they keep on smoking.

Edited May 21, 2018 by EricTh

[tgeezer]

Perhaps they don’t see any danger in it, most people look where they are treading. A Complaint on appearance would be more effective in my opinion. ไม่น่าดู ไม่เรียบร้อย etc. might seem a better reason to have it gone. 

ทำไมเขาวางเศษของการก่อสร้างไว้อย่างนี้ ไม่เรียบร้อย or ไม่น่าดูเลย  might get the ball rolling. 

I haven’t checked that phraseology with a native speaker yet. 

 

[surfdog]

ไม่เรียบร้อย  I would think of more as not appropriate, in respect to morals or normal behavior

 ไม่น่าดูเลย I think is way off in this context, it is more like describing something you wish you hadn't seen, I'm sure construction trash isn't that disturbing, unless you are just arriving after EricTh fell and impaled his arm on a rebar spike.

 

ไม่น่าชื่อ is a polite expletive, - "UNBELIEVABLE", just by putting that in caps and raising your volume, you give all the condescending strength of someone important who should be listened to.  

 

Add in a bit of ไม่น่าชื่อ!  สมัยนี้คนไทยยังทำแบบนี้  a little bit of attack on their nationalism, then to your super hypothetical situation inserted for ErikTH - สมมุติว่านักท่องเที่ยวเดินพลัดเหล็กเสียบคอจะทำยังไงอาครับ  What you going to to do when some tourist trips and takes a piece of steel through the neck??

 

Then of course our beloved tourism, please don't don't damage the reputation of tourism.  

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2018 by surfdog

[surfdog]

9 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

When you tell Thai people that 'it's dangerous', they don't understand why it is dangerous unless you give some specifics why it is dangerous like in my original sentence.

 

I've seen many Thai play with their handphone while riding a bike, talking on the phone while driving their cars at very slow speed and blocking traffic from behind, if you talk to them it's dangerous, they don't understand why it's dangerous. It's just like telling smokers that smoking is dangerous but they keep on smoking.

Not all Thai people talk on their phones when driving, those that do are trained professionals.  ?  Today say pregnant lady with 2 year old texting while parking her little moped... oh god why.

[tgeezer]

Apparently I am less proscriptive than you surfdog, I am describing the offence caused by not doing the job properly. I consulted with a friend who said that what I said was a little untidy, he suggested วางสิ่งของระเกะระกะ and วางสิ่งของไม่เป็นที่เป็นทาง 

That was in response to what I had written which as I said was a criticism of the workers. ไม่น่าดู means “I” don’t want to see it, it is an opinion. 

I suppose you mean ไม่น่าเชื่อ I like to use that at golf when I hit a good shot, a one putt for instance. The first time I used it they were amused so I assumed that it wasn’t something a Thai would say. I say it as often as I can and assume that it has caught on because my playing partners sometimes use it. My generation are all retirees so don’t necessarily have modern parlance, it is not unusual for them to use ขออภัย.  

[surfdog]

yes sorry for the misspelling above, (เชื่อ)

There is no reason why you can’t use ไม่น่าเชื่อ for a great shot in golf, the tone of voice and cadence plus context determines the meaning. So it can be playful or in what I was going for above: condescending.

I think what your native speaker friend is provided is great Thai, but very prescriptive (polite).

They didn’t just “put” stuff there in an inefficient disorganized manner, ErikTh’s tone is angry, they abandoned that trash in a dangerous and stupid way and they should know better. (condescending).





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[tgeezer]

I was reflecing on your interpretation of prescriptive (polite) when I awoke this morning and on reading what I wrote noticed my spelling 'proscriptive'!

Thai has not helped my English; I tend to picture words and once was corrected for saying "out of Kinter" when I meant"out of kilter" !

 

My feeling about me saying 'unbelievable!" in Thai with ไม่น่าเชื่อ was because it was English, I hadn't experienced it used in that way.

Rather like your asking ' what would you do if someone had his throat pierced by a piece of rebar'. It is so specific that I wonder that Thai might not feel himself up to dealing with such a situation.

My feeling is that the less said, the greater the chance of engaging a person in dialogue.

So my approach is to identify the problem and address it. Eric Th fears that if he falls he might be injured by debris left by bulilders. To convey that properly one would need to go into a lot of detail, why is he likely to fall for a start. This is why I mentioned that people tend to look where they tread, I feel that danger is not what they would see in the situation.

I made my starting point unsightlyness. ไม่น่าดู is my opinion, I apply it to places, or people meaning no more than 'I' don't like its looks. I don't understand how you can read more into so few words.

I have said วางไว้ which I now feel is wrong because it says that those who put it there meant to use it again. ทิ้ง is a better word I think. วางเกะกะ is to intentionally block the way when in fact, we know that they were careless so วางเกะกะ seems to me censorious.

เรียบร้อย is to do something properly isn't it? Good manners are เรียบร้อย good dress is เรียบร้อย etc.

 

 

 

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[surfdog]

what did Bill Gates say about the wires and how was that discussed and translated into Thai, that would work.

But really I think ErikTh situation will solve itself, steel and roofing is gold to trashpickers, it maybe that Eriks footpath is on private property, the only reason that the scraps are untouched.


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