Socialist Britain will not be 'ripped off any more' under Labour: McDonnell

[Chomper Higgot]

If I personally were tasked with fixing British Democracy, my first step would be to do what many nations do, outlaw foreign ownership of UK newspapers and media and place limits on the maximum single shareholding in news papers and media.

 

Half a dozen individuals, and a handful of foreigners controlling the bulk of the UK’s news is very clearly counter to maintaining a balanced informed public discourse within UK’s democracy.

[Kiwiken]

52 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Magna Carta was nothing to do with democracy and had virtually nothing to say about the rights of anyone other than those of the Lords and Barons.

And you think it has evolved further?

[malagateddy]

If I personally were tasked with fixing British Democracy, my first step would be to do what many nations do, outlaw foreign ownership of UK newspapers and media and place limits on the maximum single shareholding in news papers and media.
 
Half a dozen individuals, and a handful of foreigners controlling the bulk of the UK’s news is very clearly counter to maintaining a balanced informed public discourse within UK’s democracy.

Hope you would outlaw all the pro eu media outlets[emoji6]

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[pegman]

9 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Any idea how much tax income the UK receives from all those working in financial services, plus corporation tax?  

And have you socialists ever thought about the consequences of strangling the banking system?

 

Trust me, there won't be much left in the coffers for hand-outs to the less fortunate if McDonnell and his ilk get into power.

 

Brexit will be putting an end to all that. Financial services industries are as good as gone from the U.K. 

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

with no world significance, the GBP and FTSE tank,

with no world significance, the GBP and ...........tank,

 

I don't know anything about the FTSE, but the UK is already devoid of world significance, IMO, and the GBP has certainly "tanked" already. Gone from over 70 to under 45 baht to the pound.

Never mind, as long as Britain has some royals left to marry off Brits can continue to believe they have some significance in the world.

While it's a sad way to judge a nation's influence, it still comes down to military might, and Britain lost that sometime since WW2 in a flurry of downsizing and budget cuts.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If I personally were tasked with fixing British Democracy, my first step would be to do what many nations do, outlaw foreign ownership of UK newspapers and media and place limits on the maximum single shareholding in news papers and media.

 

Half a dozen individuals, and a handful of foreigners controlling the bulk of the UK’s news is very clearly counter to maintaining a balanced informed public discourse within UK’s democracy.

IMO, anyone that believes anything that is in the media, other than facts, is buying into a fraud. The media has been taken over by propaganda and biased opinion, on all sides.

I haven't read a newspaper for many years, and am no worse off for that.

As for what is on electronic medium, one would have to be daft to actually believe any of it, as it's 99% ( IMO ) opinion or propaganda. Actual news is avoided as preference is given to froth like royal weddings.

When the BBC went PC was, IMO, the day the news died.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Hope you would outlaw all the pro eu media outlets

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What all two of them?!

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

And you think it has evolved further?

There is almost nothing in Magna Carta that remains in statute.

[Chomper Higgot]

10 hours ago, Grouse said:

Yes but it would be a safety valve. As you say, it would be partieS. Difficult to get power. Maybe the Lib Dems will bounce back 

A safety valve for what?

 

Emotions and anger stirred up by the likes of Farage.

 

Create a mess and then run away from it.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Magna Carta was nothing to do with democracy and had virtually nothing to say about the rights of anyone other than those of the Lords and Barons.

Magna Carta recognised that kings did not have unlimited power, and while it may not be democratic, it allowed "democracy" to come into existence.

Without it, kings and queens could still order "off with their head" and be obeyed.

 

BTW, real democracy does not exist anywhere, though the Swiss have something resembling it with their referendums.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Magna Carta recognised that kings did not have unlimited power, and while it may not be democratic, it allowed "democracy" to come into existence.

Without it, kings and queens could still order "off with their head" and be obeyed.

 

BTW, real democracy does not exist anywhere, though the Swiss have something resembling it with their referendums.

It wasn’t Magna Carta that put an end to the power of the Crown placing parliament above the Crown and hence opening the door to democracy, it was the English Civil War.

 

Please do read some history.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It wasn’t Magna Carta that put an end to the power of the Crown placing parliament above the Crown and hence opening the door to democracy, it was the English Civil War.

 

Please do read some history.

Without Magna Carta there would have been no parliament to start the civil war.

 

Please do read some history.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Without Magna Carta there would have been no parliament to start the civil war.

 

Please do read some history.

 

Magma Carta established a Royal Council over which the Crown had absolute authority with the exception of taxing the Lords and the Barons.

 

The absolute power of the crown came to an end in the civil war after which the first houses of commons was established. 

 

Prior to the civil war the Crown has no obligation to even listen to the Royal Council, after the civil war power rested with the commons.

 

The only significance of Magna Carta is it carved off a bit of power for the Lords and Barons.They still hold that power.

[AsiaHand]

On 5/21/2018 at 10:48 AM, RuamRudy said:

Baerboxer and I clashed a little earlier, but he has a point - there is no alternative being offered to what we have now. If you think about it - the freeloaders, as you put it, are already not paying taxes, but they are not those on the dole, they are those who contribute to the Tory party, represent it in the houses of parliament or own the newspapers that keep us compliant with a daily diet of trash and lies.

 

I have never lived in a socialist country, and certainly the likes of Cuba or Venezuela doesn't make me want to move towards that model, but we desperately need to change direction. Socialism may be bad, but we have something equally as abhorrent and evil in its place now.

If you are living in The UK  you are living in a socialist country..The US liberal party in the US has been for many years trying to move The US into socialism .In both countries GREED of many of those wanting a better life without paying for it and those people not willing to commit to hard work to strive to make things better keeps the Labor/Liberal parties alive.The US is a Democratic REPUBLIC and not a Democracy. In the free world this is not unique but misunderstood by many.

[ivor bigun]

Brexit will be putting an end to all that. Financial services industries are as good as gone from the U.K. 

No they havnt.dont talk rubbish

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[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A safety valve for what?

 

Emotions and anger stirred up by the likes of Farage.

 

Create a mess and then run away from it.

But if we have several parties we can have better representation of the people. The current system means a choice between two whipped parties. I don't like either. The Brexit/Abbott/MacD trio rule out labour and I can't possibly support the CON/DUP mob!

 

What to do ?

[pegman]

1 hour ago, ivor bigun said:

No they havnt.dont talk rubbish

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Let's see in 10 years.

[pegman]

2 hours ago, AsiaHand said:

If you are living in The UK  you are living in a socialist country..The US liberal party in the US has been for many years trying to move The US into socialism .In both countries GREED of many of those wanting a better life without paying for it and those people not willing to commit to hard work to strive to make things better keeps the Labor/Liberal parties alive.The US is a Democratic REPUBLIC and not a Democracy. In the free world this is not unique but misunderstood by many.

And what far off universe are you on may I ask?

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, pegman said:

Brexit will be putting an end to all that. Financial services industries are as good as gone from the U.K. 

 

20 minutes ago, pegman said:

Let's see in 10 years.

If one is going to say something silly, its a great idea to double-down.

[SheungWan]

17 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

You keep laughing, mate - I am glad you are sitting pretty.

 

Austerity cuts to NHS blamed for 120,000 excess deaths

One should alway be careful when quoting and referencing headline research which make heavy duty claims . All published researched is subject to peer review and critique and this one no different. In this case the claim is re projections and the question is whether one can claim cause and effect. See for example: http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-paper-on-health-and-social-care-spending-and-excess-deaths-in-england/

[SheungWan]

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If I personally were tasked with fixing British Democracy, my first step would be to do what many nations do, outlaw foreign ownership of UK newspapers and media and place limits on the maximum single shareholding in news papers and media.

Half a dozen individuals, and a handful of foreigners controlling the bulk of the UK’s news is very clearly counter to maintaining a balanced informed public discourse within UK’s democracy.

You might be tasked with buying a round of drinks but that's about the limit. Other than that your local MP will be overjoyed to listen to your proposals to rectify British Democracy.

Edited May 22, 2018 by SheungWan

[rickudon]

The reality is that since the 1980's the UK has not had real 'socialism'. Privatisation has put most of the essential utilities in the hands of foreign companies, some of which were owned by hedge funds and the like. Many of these services were then milked as cash cows, asset stripped and then sold off when their infrastructure started to wear out. Research what happened to Thames water.

 

The public still have to pay for all these services, but now the profits line rich peoples pockets. And when these services become unprofitable, the private owners just walk away or ask the government to bail them out (East coast rail line?). 

 

Housing the other issue. Prior to the 1980's housing was affordable, either home owner or rented (private or social). Scrap the social sector, then housing went up. up, up. Again the rich benefited. Finally, get all university students to pay fees and borrow money, then sell off their debts = more money for the rich.

 

The younger generation know they have been conned. They start their working life with large debts, trying to get a job is a nightmare (do not let the unemployment rate fool you, getting a job, any job is hard). And then you cannot afford a home. Result - the only ones who can afford children are the complete failures/parasites like Maejo claimed to be on benefits and socially funded housing.

 

The young have woken up to the capitalist version of socialism espoused by the Conservatives and New labour. That is why very soon (probably at the next general election) Corbyn or his successors will be in power, because the young see nothing for them in the old system (unless one of the lucky few with money).

 

Will the country end up better off? Probably not, But greater equality will at least cool the anger a bit.

 

 

[ivor bigun]

Let's see in 10 years.

You said they had already gone.now you say in 10 yrs make your mind up before you post untruths.

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[pegman]

17 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Any idea how much tax income the UK receives from all those working in financial services, plus corporation tax?  

And have you socialists ever thought about the consequences of strangling the banking system?

 

Trust me, there won't be much left in the coffers for hand-outs to the less fortunate if McDonnell and his ilk get into power.

 

Well Brexit has ensured much of those taxes are soon to be gone. Poof!

[CG1 Blue]

7 minutes ago, pegman said:

Well Brexit has ensured much of those taxes are soon to be gone. Poof!

Happy to debate that myth with you on a Brexit forum.  Try the "Brexit has created chaos" one which is now up to around 480 pages!

[ivor bigun]

Well Brexit has ensured much of those taxes are soon to be gone. Poof!

As usual rubbish. Or maybe as you said about the service industry that had "all left" wait 10 years then see.

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[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, rickudon said:

The reality is that since the 1980's the UK has not had real 'socialism'.

 

I guess a lot of guys have never read Lenin and really don't know what they are talking about when referencing 'real socialism' and probably too meally-mouthed to use the word 'communism'. What they are really talking about is capitalism with a reformist face and that's about it, whatever the militant tub-thumping. That they are also managing to carefully not talk about what happened in Eastern Europe after WW2 is another feat of obscurantism. 'Real socialism', my a***!

Edited May 22, 2018 by SheungWan

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

You might be tasked with buying a round of drinks but that's about the limit. Other than that your local MP will be overjoyed to listen to your proposals to rectify British Democracy.

I was pointing out what I personally believe to be the single biggest problem with UK democracy.

 

You responded with an attempt at being smart.

[Chomper Higgot]

37 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

I guess a lot of guys have never read Lenin and really don't know what they are talking about when referencing 'real socialism' and probably too meally-mouthed to use the word 'communism'. What they are really talking about is capitalism with a reformist face and that's about it, whatever the militant tub-thumping. That they are also managing to carefully not talk about what happened in Eastern Europe after WW2 is another feat of obscurantism. 'Real socialism', my a***!

Off we go again with more hyperbole.

 

Socialism gave the UK the welfare state, Old age pensions, the NHS.

 

Socialism has helped many of the world’s democracies provide societies that work for the many, not just the few. 

 

The nations of Scandanavia have all employed Socialism to provide high standards of living, low levels of wealth disparity.

 

And please I’m not being ‘mealy mouthed’ when I say ‘I’m a socialist, I am not a communist’.

 

But of course, for your arguments to work those you disagree with have to be precisely what you decide they are, heaven forbid they be allowed to decide for themselves.

 

 

 

[AsiaHand]

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 12:41 PM, SheungWan said:

One definite innovation would be to send the single mums to work in Pattaya. This might solve your 'hard to see a way out' problem.

What large corporations are not paying any tax? do you have the figures or is just normal mouthing off about what you do not know about.?