Lease contract for land

[Khun Jean]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

Can you have both a lease and a usufruct at the same time on the same piece of land ?

 

No.

[Khun Jean]

28 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

If you sign a lease when married then upon divorce lease is not good and void. For lease to be valid after a divorce the lease must have been entered into when you are single and not married. Important distinction. If your GF says we will do lease after marriage then that is a bad sign for you. I agree that adults gets to make their own choices and life is risk versus reward. It may work out great for you. 

Indeed, make the lease or better usufruct BEFORE marriage. 

When she says after marriage she just sets a time, i bet she does not even know that it is not the best way for her new husband.

[SpeakeasyThai]

Simple: Don't do it.

[MyFriend You]

9 hours ago, TEFLKrabi said:

Yep. If you lease the land you get 30 years but usufruct is for life.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

BUT, BUT, BUT  a usufruct dies when the holder dies - as someone else said  "get my drift"        Since you already bought the land, a 30 year lease is the only way to go.  Get it now while you are still friends, before her family can convince her to borrow against it.

[kalidescopemind]

Frode, you asked about a lawyer?  That should have been your first step, as you can see from all the advise you are getting.  Get your OWN lawyer, not one your wife knows, to represent YOUR interests.  You are playing an expensive game where you don't know the rules, and its designed to screw dumb foreigners.    Do it right away, before you improve the land.  Good luck.  

[MyFriend You]

5 hours ago, bangkoken said:

Keep something in mind. Any leases signed between you and your girlfriend MUST be filed with The Land Office of jurisdiction at the same time of the property transfer from the former owner to your girlfriend. You cannot add leasing agreements once the transfer has been completed.

doesn't sound right at all.........where did you get this lil tidbit of information??  Not heard of that at all.  A Thai has the right to lase their property whenever they want to, not only when you transfer it from one owner to the other.

 

[wolf81]

I wouldn't bother / risk it. From what I understand the usufruct dies with you (i.e.: if you accidentally, brutally you cut your head of while shaving).

 

The lease could work if no family of you lives anywhere close to the land. Still, I feel it's risky. 

 

Just don't spend more than what you're willing to lose is the best approach imo.

[heybuz]

usafruct in my opinion is the way,i had on house and land divorced ex and her being thai told me i had no rights in thailand i sued her in a thai court and won,she had to pay me or the court would auction the property and pay me out.when dealing in house and land i believe thats the safest way.

[ukrules]

8 hours ago, bangkoken said:

Keep something in mind. Any leases signed between you and your girlfriend MUST be filed with The Land Office of jurisdiction at the same time of the property transfer from the former owner to your girlfriend. You cannot add leasing agreements once the transfer has been completed.

 

Are you sure about this ?

 

That would mean that any Thai national who owns a piece of land can't lease it out to anybody they want to unless they do so on the day they buy it ?

 

Doesn't make much sense to me. What does agreeing a lease have to do with purchasing land ? How about someone (Thai national) inherits land and wants to lease it out a few years later ?

[inThailand]

The lease amount should correspond to what you can prove you paid. The Land Office charges a 1% fee of the lease value. Unsfuct is worthless compared to a lease. These are same guys who profess a yellow book is valuable when you can do the same with a passport and blue book. 

[Muhendis]

10 hours ago, Frode said:

My girlfriend owns a rubber tree farm.

 

10 hours ago, Frode said:

We are not building in her village. Her closest relative lives 1,5 hour away and she also have no connection to the place we are going to build.

 

10 hours ago, Frode said:

She already have 3 houses, but none of them located were I want to live.

 

These three statements don't make much sense to me.

If she already has a rubber tree farm and three houses, where did she get the money from to buy them?

All Thai girls have a deep rooted desire to be near their family. Why is this not the case with your girlfriend?

[rumak]

10 hours ago, Frode said:

Since everybody here (wisely enough) is sceptical to the lease agreement it would be interesting to know how yourself have solved this issues. I presume many of you already live in Thailand.  How have you arranged ownership of your land/house? 

The question here is :  IF someone on this forum were to give you the best advice how would you know ?

What many, many here are trying to EXPLAIN to you is this:   The only thing that matters here is that you are not going to WIN if the situation goes bottoms up.  You can ask why all you want but there are lots of reasons that only living here and knowing first hand or through friends will teach.

Foreigners always go into this BUT THE LAW says  blah blah blah.  Yes, a few that go through the "legal process" when they have a problem have succeeded in not losing everything.  Also some have been killed or made life miserable from their exes/families/friends.

There is a good reason why many say. "don't invest more than you can afford to lose/walk away from.

If you are LUCKY and find a good wife, gf, or whatever then no need to worry who's name things are in .

If you are not lucky you can get involved in fighting for what is yours .  Good luck with that !

FYI  I am not a bitter loser.   I did "invest" a small amount in various relationships,  but never anything that

was a problem for me when I moved on.  The longer i live the LESS  I invest and the MORE I expect from

anyone who is going to live with me....  

 

[rumak]

7 hours ago, kalidescopemind said:

Frode, you asked about a lawyer?  That should have been your first step, as you can see from all the advise you are getting.  Get your OWN lawyer, not one your wife knows, to represent YOUR interests.  You are playing an expensive game where you don't know the rules, and its designed to screw dumb foreigners.    Do it right away, before you improve the land.  Good luck.  

and how does one find a lawyer who is not in it "to screw dumb foreigners".   haha

get one from Switzerland ?  

[Khun Jean]

I have learned to not trust lawyers (yes, even the expensive ones, although there are of course exceptions). They have only their own interest in mind.

And they are not accountable for the advice they give.

Buyer beware * 100 in Thailand.

 

I still remember a reputable lawyer saying 'Well then Thailand is not the right country for you' when i challenged him on land ownership laws, suggesting that i was foolish to not use a simple lease (90 year) or company structure.

 

Just imagine you are on 'Survival', you need to know stuff before you do things. Be patient and learn the ins and outs first.

 

[Frode]

4 hours ago, Muhendis said:

 

 

 

These three statements don't make much sense to me.

If she already has a rubber tree farm and three houses, where did she get the money from to buy them?

All Thai girls have a deep rooted desire to be near their family. Why is this not the case with your girlfriend?

She got it from her mother.

Her family live in the muslim south and she is a Buddhist. Besides she havent been living there for many years already. Remember that many thai girls move to the farangs home country wich is far from the family.

[tryasimight]

19 hours ago, Frode said:

Thats my aproch to it. If everything goes wrong, I have other places to go. I dont need to sleep under the bridge and eat grass to be able to stay alive...

Just as well..... Under the bridge is full to capacity with TVF trolls as it is. 

Unfortunately many posters repeat bar stool 'facts' and while it is true that some fools rush in,  a thinking person may not have any real problems as long as they don't bet everything they have on a single roll of the dice. And that applies anywhere not just Thailand. 

Don't forget that many members of this forum have very few assets and means of support being an overseas pension..... And very little else. They do,  however,  seem to get a perverse sense of glee in watching other ( but never admit to it) farang suffer.

One poster mentioned that you are buying land which he equates to your gf not having a house. In his world maybe. 

In my opinion if you are comfortable with the risk...... Go for it and I wish you and your partner all the best.  It worked,  and is still working for me. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by tryasimight

[tryasimight]

9 hours ago, Muhendis said:

 

 

 

These three statements don't make much sense to me.

If she already has a rubber tree farm and three houses, where did she get the money from to buy them?

All Thai girls have a deep rooted desire to be near their family. Why is this not the case with your girlfriend?

My wife is perfectly happy living 7000 miles from her family. She also has a house and farmlands in Thailand which visit often. She inherited the farmlands and worked and saved to build her house as many Thais do... Indeed as do people the world over. I have a house in Australia but didn't have to sell my body in a red light district to pay for it if that is your implication of Thai ladies with property. 

What don't you understand?? 

[KBsinter]

Will he won"t he,? I think his biggest problem is finding a lawyer (honest)

they are the same as  Immigration, as to defining the written word, I wish him

luck................lol 

[sometimewoodworker]

20 hours ago, Khun Jean said:

If you include your heirs on the usufruct then they can also use the land for their life.

 

No you can't. The Usufruct can not be passed on. It terminates at the end of its term or the death of the Usufructee, however any lease lives on for its full term (if more than 3 years up to 30 years it must be registered with the land office to be legal)

22 hours ago, ukrules said:

Can you have both a lease and a usufruct at the same time on the same piece of land ?

You can have an Usufruct on the land and then grant/sell a lease to someone else, so yes. However you can't grant yourself a lease

Edited May 25, 2018 by sometimewoodworker

[Muhendis]

17 hours ago, tryasimight said:

My wife is perfectly happy living 7000 miles from her family. She also has a house and farmlands in Thailand which visit often. She inherited the farmlands and worked and saved to build her house as many Thais do... Indeed as do people the world over. I have a house in Australia but didn't have to sell my body in a red light district to pay for it if that is your implication of Thai ladies with property. 

What don't you understand?? 

Frode has met a girl and wants to buy some land for her so that he can build a house and live in it. She already has three houses plus land and a rubber tree plantation gifted to her by her mother. According to simple arithmetic she will then have four houses plus land and a rubber tree plantation. There is no mention of this girl making any contribution to this land purchase by, for example, selling one of her other houses to help her boyfriend. As I'm sure he understands, he will have no claim on the land whatsoever because the land office will require his girlfriend to sign a statement to that effect. Frode seems concerned about security of his investment. He see's usufruct or lease as a way to get such security. Providing all goes well he will get his security and there will never ever be any problem. Personally I think he should get married first because that would give him claim on 50% should things go wrong and 100% claim (subject to the one year rule) in the event of his wife's death.

[Khun Jean]

22 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

No you can't. The Usufruct can not be passed on. It terminates at the end of its term or the death of the Usufructee, however any lease lives on for its full term (if more than 3 years up to 30 years it must be registered with the land office to be legal)

You can have an Usufruct on the land and then grant/sell a lease to someone else, so yes. However you can't grant yourself a lease

Who said anything about it being passed on. When you include your heirs on the usufruct then it is not passed on. There is nothing from stopping you to do that. There might be a limit to how many people but it is absolutely more then one. In case when you married it also gives extra security because  those extra people (3rd party) makes it impossible for the spouse to cancel it.

Doesn't have to be a heir also, the person can be anyone. 

So imagine you are 50, your kid is 25 and your grandson is 2. In theory you can include them both, in practice  only your kid. The usufruct is then valid for life for the longest living.

[BEVUP]

8 hours ago, Muhendis said:

Frode has met a girl and wants to buy some land for her so that he can build a house and live in it. She already has three houses plus land and a rubber tree plantation gifted to her by her mother. According to simple arithmetic she will then have four houses plus land and a rubber tree plantation. There is no mention of this girl making any contribution to this land purchase by, for example, selling one of her other houses to help her boyfriend. As I'm sure he understands, he will have no claim on the land whatsoever because the land office will require his girlfriend to sign a statement to that effect. Frode seems concerned about security of his investment. He see's usufruct or lease as a way to get such security. Providing all goes well he will get his security and there will never ever be any problem. Personally I think he should get married first because that would give him claim on 50% should things go wrong and 100% claim (subject to the one year rule) in the event of his wife's death.

Very well rounded up

? Why doesn't she do that - maybe because she is not the only child

Usufrut = She can do as she pleases with the land - so if something serious happened in the family she could mortgage it / or if she was to help a relative & they stuffed up, she is up for the payments or lose the land/house

The marriage bit seems the best since he is guaranteed a forced sale through the courts getting 50/50 - Usufrut wont matter then

[kalidescopemind]

I've seen lawyers advertise on Pattaya online newspapers.   Sure, no one really likes them, but a court is the only place you may save your assets.  You should study Thai RE law yourself so you are an informed consumer.   I would have bought her a condo I could put my name on if it was me.  But its only land at this point, so there isn't a lot at stake I suppose.

[Jip99]

20 hours ago, BEVUP said:

Very well rounded up

? Why doesn't she do that - maybe because she is not the only child

Usufrut = She can do as she pleases with the land - so if something serious happened in the family she could mortgage it / or if she was to help a relative & they stuffed up, she is up for the payments or lose the land/house

The marriage bit seems the best since he is guaranteed a forced sale through the courts getting 50/50 - Usufrut wont matter then

 

 

Yes, I imagine that lenders will be queuing up to lend with that usufruct attached to the chanote!

[BEVUP]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Yes, I imagine that lenders will be queuing up to lend with that usufruct attached to the chanote!

Loan Sharks do

[Jip99]

6 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Loan Sharks do

 

Show me evidence of one lending where the usufruct is on the chanote.

 

They can lend by all means but their rights are subordinate to the usufructuary.

[rumak]

On 5/25/2018 at 4:16 AM, heybuz said:

usafruct in my opinion is the way,i had on house and land divorced ex and her being thai told me i had no rights in thailand i sued her in a thai court and won,she had to pay me or the court would auction the property and pay me out.when dealing in house and land i believe thats the safest way.

good to hear (no sarcasm).   How long did the court case take.....and...did you get your money or are you still waiting?

[BEVUP]

4 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

Show me evidence of one lending where the usufruct is on the chanote.

 

They can lend by all means but their rights are subordinate to the usufructuary.

Happened to me 

I even seen a prospective buyer turn up, but they realised a Usufrut was on the Chanote

[BEVUP]

4 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

Show me evidence of one lending where the usufruct is on the chanote.

 

They can lend by all means but their rights are subordinate to the usufructuary.

Happened to me 

I even seen a prospective buyer turn up, but they realised a Usufrut was on the Chanote

 

Must of thought if all turned to shit from the family hocking it to the POS BIL the Farang would front up

Edited May 27, 2018 by BEVUP

[Jip99]

3 hours ago, BEVUP said:

Happened to me 

I even seen a prospective buyer turn up, but they realised a Usufrut was on the Chanote

 

 

So so they didn’t lend/buy.

 

My point entirely - the usufruct acts as a deterrent to misdeeds such as selling or loan-raising behind your back.