Can a Farang Hold the Lease for a Bar in Their Name?

[mikosan]

A quick question and whilst I appreciate that many will only too quickly say 'why would you want to run/own a bar', I'm already fully understanding of the scepticism about this, but I'd like an answer to the actual question please.

 

A friend is interested in buying the lease on a bar, to run as a hobby, rather than a money making exercise.  He would like my Thai girlfriend to manage it for him.  He will have to put up the money to buy the bar and, quite rightly, he would prefer to have the lease in his name.

 

I imagine he can't have the liquor licence in his name, so that would have to be in the name of my girlfriend.  However, I am told that this would be difficult if she is not the actual leaseholder of the premises.  Is this correct and if so, any  suggestions, apart from the obvious, 'don't open a bar'.  555

 

Thank you in anticipation.   

Edited May 23, 2018 by mikosan

[JAZZDOG]

Very likely the current lease is in a limited company or you will need to open one. Without a Work Permit your friend can't lift a finger working in the bar, nothing, cant touch the register. Getting a work permit is a pain and he will have to declare 4 employees plus himself, total payroll 90K / month. This cuts into his already minimal profit. He can own 49% of the shares but can't be director or sign for the company, signing docs is work.  He can write into the bylaws it takes 66% shareholders to sell, encumber to insure his say in things but is still dependent on Thai shareholders going along. Doing it legally is really hard to turn a profit. He should take up gardening, believe me, I've been there.

[swissie]

1 hour ago, JAZZDOG said:

Very likely the current lease is in a limited company or you will need to open one. Without a Work Permit your friend can't lift a finger working in the bar, nothing, cant touch the register. Getting a work permit is a pain and he will have to declare 4 employees plus himself, total payroll 90K / month. This cuts into his already minimal profit. He can own 49% of the shares but can't be director or sign for the company, signing docs is work.  He can write into the bylaws it takes 66% shareholders to sell, encumber to insure his say in things but is still dependent on Thai shareholders going along. Doing it legally is really hard to turn a profit. He should take up gardening, believe me, I've been there.

Thanks JD for saying/explaining it once more. No wonder that hardly any Farangs are getting involved in the Bar-Business anymore (it's so retro and so yesterday).

More and more Farangs are getting into gardening. For 90K/month I too would prefer "gardening" over paying 90K for "overhead".
Just thingking how much "overhead" I would be getting by gardening and spending 90K/month makes my heart soar like an eagle.
Cheers.

[JAZZDOG]

45 minutes ago, swissie said:

Thanks JD for saying/explaining it once more. No wonder that hardly any Farangs are getting involved in the Bar-Business anymore (it's so retro and so yesterday).

More and more Farangs are getting into gardening. For 90K/month I too would prefer "gardening" over paying 90K for "overhead".
Just thingking how much "overhead" I would be getting by gardening and spending 90K/month makes my heart soar like an eagle.
Cheers.

Very true, he could sit in his favorite bar drinking seven days a week, getting laid every other day for what he loses on this hobby idea. My "Hobby" business in Patty is 10X better and it totally sucks, haha!

[observer90210]

Agree also. If he must open a bar, and he is from the EU, try the Canary Islands...or the Greek Islands as Kos, Crete or even Ibiza/Formentera....much higher potential (and purchase price perhaps), far less red tape and he will fully own the place and not get hassled or ripped off by any eventual partner,

Edited May 23, 2018 by observer90210

[mikosan]

5 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

Very likely the current lease is in a limited company or you will need to open one. Without a Work Permit your friend can't lift a finger working in the bar, nothing, cant touch the register. Getting a work permit is a pain and he will have to declare 4 employees plus himself, total payroll 90K / month. This cuts into his already minimal profit. He can own 49% of the shares but can't be director or sign for the company, signing docs is work.  He can write into the bylaws it takes 66% shareholders to sell, encumber to insure his say in things but is still dependent on Thai shareholders going along. Doing it legally is really hard to turn a profit. He should take up gardening, believe me, I've been there.

The current lease is in the name of the Thai lady who runs the bar, as is the liquor licence and whatever other licences you might need.  The bar was originally started from scratch in one of those shop front town houses and the set up money was provided by her farang husband.  So, as far as I am aware, no limited company.  My friend intends to live on the premises and fully appreciates that he can't lift a finger working in the bar, but that doesn't mean he can't potter around in the background doing the paperwork etc.

 

And before anyone suggests it, no I am not my friend,  as far as I am concerned, bars are for drinking in, not owning.  I simply see this as an employment opportunity for my girlfriend who, surprisingly for a Thai, is keen to do something, rather than laze around watching TV or playing on her phone.  Or better still, get paid for doing that! 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

4 minutes ago, mikosan said:

 I simply see this as an employment opportunity for my girlfriend who, surprisingly for a Thai, is keen to do something, rather than laze around watching TV or playing on her phone.  Or better still, get paid for doing that! 

 

Lol...."surprisingly for a Thai".

 

Most Thai women find their own employment without relying on farang mug to open a dodgy bar.

 

Leave your racist comments for Pattaya mongers forum, will ya?

[FritsSikkink]

38 minutes ago, mikosan said:

The current lease is in the name of the Thai lady who runs the bar, as is the liquor licence and whatever other licences you might need.  The bar was originally started from scratch in one of those shop front town houses and the set up money was provided by her farang husband.  So, as far as I am aware, no limited company.  My friend intends to live on the premises and fully appreciates that he can't lift a finger working in the bar, but that doesn't mean he can't potter around in the background doing the paperwork etc.

 

And before anyone suggests it, no I am not my friend,  as far as I am concerned, bars are for drinking in, not owning.  I simply see this as an employment opportunity for my girlfriend who, surprisingly for a Thai, is keen to do something, rather than laze around watching TV or playing on her phone.  Or better still, get paid for doing that! 

If your girlfriend wants to run a bar, she should be able to find this information on her own.

[mikosan]

31 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Lol...."surprisingly for a Thai".

 

Most Thai women find their own employment without relying on farang mug to open a dodgy bar.

 

Leave your racist comments for Pattaya mongers forum, will ya?

Did you get out of bed on the wrong side mate?  What on earth is racist about a tongue in cheek comment like that?  If you have something constructive to add to my questions please do so, if not, please crawl back under your stone, where you belong.  Have a nice day.   

[mikosan]

5 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

If your girlfriend wants to run a bar, she should be able to find this information on her own.

Thanks for your input.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

1 hour ago, mikosan said:

Did you get out of bed on the wrong side mate?  What on earth is racist about a tongue in cheek comment like that?  If you have something constructive to add to my questions please do so, if not, please crawl back under your stone, where you belong.  Have a nice day.   

 

Yes, as a matter of fact I did.

 

Then I read your stupid comment.

[catman20]

On 5/24/2018 at 1:02 AM, JAZZDOG said:

Very likely the current lease is in a limited company or you will need to open one. Without a Work Permit your friend can't lift a finger working in the bar, nothing, cant touch the register. Getting a work permit is a pain and he will have to declare 4 employees plus himself, total payroll 90K / month. This cuts into his already minimal profit. He can own 49% of the shares but can't be director or sign for the company, signing docs is work.  He can write into the bylaws it takes 66% shareholders to sell, encumber to insure his say in things but is still dependent on Thai shareholders going along. Doing it legally is really hard to turn a profit. He should take up gardening, believe me, I've been there.

if you want to make a small fortune in Thailand start with a big one .

[phantomfiddler]

No problem, Mikosan, from someone who has been in the bar business here for over 35 years. First find a decent lawyer and have the lease made in your name. No problem at all with this. You then sublease to your gf, and she puts the business license in her name, and away you go. She gets the necessary drinks, food, and cigarette licenses, negligable costs, runs the business and staff, you sit there chatting to your mates but cannot be seen to actually work, and your gf will have to pay an annual business tax of only a few thousand baht at the end of the year. If you want to feel super safe, have your gf sign a document prepared by your lawyer that she is renting all the bar equipment from you, and keep all the receipts for equipment purchased.

[phantomfiddler]

A bit of additional :-  Make sure your lease is with the actual owner of the property, and don,t expect to make a fortune ?

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 6:21 AM, mikosan said:

I simply see this as an employment opportunity for my girlfriend who, surprisingly for a Thai, is keen to do something, rather than laze around watching TV or playing on her phone.  Or better still, get paid for doing that! 

I simply see this as an employment opportunity for my girlfriend who, surprisingly for a Thai, is keen to do something

 

Ah, if I had a baht for every business that was opened for that reason, I'd be a rich man.

If a Thai wants to work, there are thousands of jobs available, in established businesses, but "owning" one that someone else paid for is always preferable.

I'm calling BS on the GF's "desire to work".

 

As for  "get paid for doing that!", they get paid to have rumpty, and the rest is incidental. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 7:00 AM, FritsSikkink said:

If your girlfriend wants to run a bar, she should be able to find this information on her own.

I agree 100%.

A lot of posts on TVF are from guys that apparently think their Thai GF/ fiancé is too stupid to work anything out for themselves, and they are, apparently, the white knight riding in to save her, in a country where they know nothing about how it works.

 

However, it may be that the OP wants to know how to save his "friend" from being taken to the cleaners by the GF.

[jippytum]

57 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

No problem, Mikosan, from someone who has been in the bar business here for over 35 years. First find a decent lawyer and have the lease made in your name. No problem at all with this. You then sublease to your gf, and she puts the business license in her name, and away you go. She gets the necessary drinks, food, and cigarette licenses, negligable costs, runs the business and staff, you sit there chatting to your mates but cannot be seen to actually work, and your gf will have to pay an annual business tax of only a few thousand baht at the end of the year. If you want to feel super safe, have your gf sign a document prepared by your lawyer that she is renting all the bar equipment from you, and keep all the receipts for equipment purchased.

Good advice and legally correct .Please follow if determined to open a bar .

[LivinLOS]

Accurate answer.

Most (farang) bars are rented on a renewable 3 year rental contract.. Of course a farang can rent one. Over three years it must be legally a leasehold agreement, rarer but does happen, a farang can also lease the space building etc. 

A Thai can run and manage the bar (legally, actually is a totally different call) seperate and distinct from the owner / leaseholder / renter. The farang cannot lift a finger without a work permit, not even reach over the bar and turn the volume down if they want to be difficult, but can sit the customer side and 'manage' thier investment. 

A good, real lawyer, if you can find one, will be able to set all this up correctly.

[elgenon]

Isn't gardening a job? A Thai could be employed.

I wish your buddy well and, if he does get the bar, I am sure all the TV members will support him with their patronage as that's the kind of people we are. IMHO

[JAZZDOG]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 6:21 AM, mikosan said:

The current lease is in the name of the Thai lady who runs the bar, as is the liquor licence and whatever other licences you might need.  The bar was originally started from scratch in one of those shop front town houses and the set up money was provided by her farang husband.  So, as far as I am aware, no limited company.  My friend intends to live on the premises and fully appreciates that he can't lift a finger working in the bar, but that doesn't mean he can't potter around in the background doing the paperwork etc.

 

And before anyone suggests it, no I am not my friend,  as far as I am concerned, bars are for drinking in, not owning.  I simply see this as an employment opportunity for my girlfriend who, surprisingly for a Thai, is keen to do something, rather than laze around watching TV or playing on her phone.  Or better still, get paid for doing that! 

If he is caught puttering around he's toast. No paperwork, nothing.

[DJ54]

Guys why do several posts turn into a pissing match?  The poster simply asked  a question. Yes there may be comments that someone doesn't agree with...that’s life. 

 

This yap started from comment basically surprised to see the desire to work. It’s known that many prefer not to work.

 

I hear it everyday someone saying no money for food or asking for 20 - 40 baht  which basically sums up as hand out. 

 

It’s not only here I’ve seen it in my home country (U..S.) and with one of my two children when in thier twenties.  

 

The World changes everyday. The desire of people to work in our generation (born in 50’s) is not the same as young people of working age today. 

 

Our generation had more with desire to work. Those that didn’t 

want to work were incentivized in our case work or get out. The 

option to work was far less expensive than getting out. 

 

When reading post take it in stride and realize opinions are a persons view. 

 

If you really feel a need to take a piss at an individual use the message option. Save others from getting frustrated with forum in general.

 

If my younger in-laws in the village of work age and sound body looked or even thought of work. I’d be surprised, shocked and maybe have a block party.  (Block party not expected anytime soon) 

 

Enjoy the Day

[mikosan]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I agree 100%.

A lot of posts on TVF are from guys that apparently think their Thai GF/ fiancé is too stupid to work anything out for themselves, and they are, apparently, the white knight riding in to save her, in a country where they know nothing about how it works.

 

However, it may be that the OP wants to know how to save his "friend" from being taken to the cleaners by the GF.

Yes, I want to protect both my friend AND my girlfriend and I am not stupid enough to think that my girlfriend is stupid, nor my friend.  Neither am I stupid, unless you consider asking this question on TV was stupid, which it probably was! 555.  Anyway, we have resolved the situation to the benefit of everyone, so no problem.  Thank you to anyone who contributed sensibly, up yours to the others. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by mikosan

[mikosan]

3 hours ago, DJ54 said:

Guys why do several posts turn into a pissing match?  The poster simply asked  a question. Yes there may be comments that someone doesn't agree with...that’s life. 

 

This yap started from comment basically surprised to see the desire to work. It’s known that many prefer not to work.

 

I hear it everyday someone saying no money for food or asking for 20 - 40 baht  which basically sums up as hand out. 

 

It’s not only here I’ve seen it in my home country (U..S.) and with one of my two children when in thier twenties.  

 

The World changes everyday. The desire of people to work in our generation (born in 50’s) is not the same as young people of working age today. 

 

Our generation had more with desire to work. Those that didn’t 

want to work were incentivized in our case work or get out. The 

option to work was far less expensive than getting out. 

 

When reading post take it in stride and realize opinions are a persons view. 

 

If you really feel a need to take a piss at an individual use the message option. Save others from getting frustrated with forum in general.

 

If my younger in-laws in the village of work age and sound body looked or even thought of work. I’d be surprised, shocked and maybe have a block party.  (Block party not expected anytime soon) 

 

Enjoy the Day

Thank you DJ54. Well written and I am in total agreement.  More fool me for thinking that maybe I could get a sensible response from more than a few, but I am very grateful to the few, yourself included.  

[theguyfromanotherforum]

1 hour ago, mikosan said:

Anyway, we have resolved the situation to the benefit of everyone, so no problem.  Thank you to anyone who contributed sensibly, up yours to the others. 

 

Wow. That's super duper fast even for Thailand.

 

Did your gf make a FB announcement that she is now manager of  a hiso fantasy bar? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by theguyfromanotherforum

[mikosan]

14 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Wow. That's super duper fast even for Thailand.

 

Did your gf make a FB announcement that she is now manager of  a hiso fantasy bar? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You really are a sad individual aren't you?

[theguyfromanotherforum]

2 hours ago, mikosan said:

You really are a sad individual aren't you?

 

Sad face eiei

Edited May 26, 2018 by theguyfromanotherforum

[cracker1]

I think having your GF managing the bar (assuming she has some management training) would probably lead to a breakup of your friendship with the bar owner.

I suggest you keep away from this suggestion.

[cracker1]

It is apparent that your GF has no extensive business training (or she would be employed) and if she is going to "manage" your friends bar, he will soon become your ex-friend.

Suggest you keep her out of this deal. 

[JAZZDOG]

13 minutes ago, cracker1 said:

It is apparent that your GF has no extensive business training (or she would be employed) and if she is going to "manage" your friends bar, he will soon become your ex-friend.

Suggest you keep her out of this deal. 

For the loss he most likely will take on this enterprise he could buy 18,400 beers or 6 beers a day for the next 8 1/2 years.

[MyFriend You]

On 5/25/2018 at 3:52 AM, catman20 said:

if you want to make a small fortune in Thailand start with a big one .

Thank You  -   I vote the the "Quote of the Decade" for Thailand.     It should be framed and hung in every foreign 'owned' entity for everyone to read.  If you start out knowing this up front, you will never have anyone to blame but yourself.