lannarebirth Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, attrayant said: What statement has Kim made that he is now backtracking on? If anything, he's keeping his commitment (with SK) to fully demolish the nuclear test site: N. Korea demolishes nuclear test site as journalists watch "PUNGGYE-RI, North Korea (AP) — North Korean leader Kim Jong Un made good on his promise to demolish his country’s nuclear test site, which was formally closed in a series of huge explosions Thursday as a small group of foreign journalists watched." I guess making good on promises is backtracking to you? Quote "North Korea's arbitrary action to dismantle this facility on its own, this is not something that we can believe is part of North Korea's declared aim of denuclearization. It's nothing more than destroying evidence." https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/22/asia/north-korea-destroy-nuclear-site-intl/index.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, car720 said: At last. Someone with the ability to think. China is in control of this. Everyone knows China is in control of North Korea's actions. That's not the issue. The issue is what happens next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydebolle Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Well, guess who benefits more? The Koreans managed a summit which moved the limelight of Washington DC off centre. If Trump would not have returned with a deal in his air force one airplane he would have had to face the music; something the North Koreans dont even know how it sounds - go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post car720 Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, lannarebirth said: Everyone knows China is in control of North Korea's actions. That's not the issue. The issue is what happens next. That's easy. Together they tell the US to bugger off and mind their own business. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post lannarebirth Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, car720 said: That's easy. Together they tell the US to bugger off and mind their own business. I find that most people are wrong about most things all of the time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: Everyone knows China is in control of North Korea's actions. That's not the issue. The issue is what happens next. The issue is, Trump has handed NK the moral high ground. Think about that for a moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleTouchyFingers Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, Chomper Higgot said: The issue is, Trump has handed NK the moral high ground. Think about that for a moment. On what planet does a murderous dictator have the moral high ground? Geez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chomper Higgot Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: I find that most people are wrong about most things all of the time. “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” Marcus Aurelius 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chomper Higgot Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said: On what planet does a murderous dictator have the moral high ground? Geez Planet Trump, he’s just handed it to NK. You fail to see the pitiful irony in this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailand Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 North Korea ready to talk 'at any time' with Donald Trump http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44248256 Makes Trump and his administration look like the dolts they are. Completely outplayed by North korea and China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Credo Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 Trump wrote a Dear John letter to someone who had already dumped him. The US pre-summit team had already been stood up in Singapore when the N. Koreans didn't show up. Kim is a winner in this. China is a big, big winner. Trump is a loser and has potentially threatened the relationship with SK. The SK president was in the Oval Office and now goes home looking like a fool. There is absolutely no strategy on the part of the US. Bullying is not a diplomatic strategy. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attrayant Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: "North Korea's arbitrary action to dismantle this facility on its own, this is not something that we can believe is part of North Korea's declared aim of denuclearization. It's nothing more than destroying evidence." An "arbitrary action" is not backtracking. He said he would do it, and he's done it. That's more than we can say for Trump. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: The issue is, Trump has handed NK the moral high ground. Think about that for a moment. With all due respect, you are delusional. You've still got time to edit your post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post attrayant Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 Trump calls Kim open, honorable "[Trump] said Kim Jong Un wants a historic, high-stakes meeting as soon as possible and suggested the North Korean dictator has been very open and very honorable" That's some nice moral high ground you have there. Now Trump has gone back on his word and Kim is keeping his promises. The moral high ground just got even higher. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: With all due respect, you are delusional. You've still got time to edit your post. Watch and learn. NK is already playing Trump’s withdrawal, painting the US as unreliable and insincere. Amongst the cards on the table is the reputation of the US as a trusted international partner. China is undoubtedly winning here. Edited May 25, 2018 by Chomper Higgot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said: Watch and learn. NK is already playing Trump’s with withdrawal, painting the US as unreliable and insincere. North Korea started the ball rolling by saying they were going to de-nuclearize the Korean Penninsula. They have since stated they have no intention of giving up their nuclear weapons and you are calling the nation that withdraws from the talks that were predicated on that de-nuclearization unreliable and insincere. In your Bizarro World that must mean Kim is a paragon of integrity and virtue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chomper Higgot Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: North Korea started the ball rolling by saying they were going to de-nuclearize the Korean Penninsula. They have since stated they have no intention of giving up their nuclear weapons and you are calling the nation that withdraws from the talks that were predicated on that de-nuclearization unreliable and insincere. In your Bizarro World that must mean Kim is a paragon of integrity and virtue. It’s deplomacy. And are you sure you know what NK’s offer was? Whatever it started as, Trump showed his hand early, declared he’d done the deal and therefore left himself and the US exposed to NK changing the deal. NK are playing Trump like a fiddle Now NK are able to point at Trump and declare with good reason, he can’t be trusted. This comes on the back of Trump’s disgraceful behaviour over the Iran deal. Game at play: Can the international community trust the US and if not who will become the trusted international partner of choice? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post attrayant Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: you are calling the nation that withdraws from the talks that were predicated on that de-nuclearization unreliable and insincere. This is just factually wrong. Long sought by North Korea, summit holds risks for Trump administration "Now, as a summit unexpectedly appears possible, analysts fear U.S. President Donald Trump’s understaffed administration may lack the expertise to successfully turn a political spectacle long sought by Pyongyang into a meaningful opportunity to convince North Korea to abandon its nuclear program. South Korean officials said Friday Trump almost immediately agreed to meet North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, without preconditions, by the end of May. Even proponents of a diplomatic approach towards North Korea worry the administration could be rushing into a summit with little time to prepare." Without preconditions. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Can the international community trust the US and if not who will become the trusted international partner of choice? The US has been the international partner of choice because its partners know that they will reap the same rewards but almost none of the risks and a disproportionately small portion of the cost of that partnership. The US has historically been willing to screw its citizens for the benefit of its partners. Good luck finding another international partner that stupid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: The US has been the international partner of choice because its partners know that they will reap the same rewards but almost none of the risks and a disproportionately small portion of the cost of that partnership. The US has historically been willing to screw its citizens for the benefit of its partners. Good luck finding another international partner that stupid. I’m sure that makes sense to you. Nations observing the behaviour of the US under this President may think otherwise. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, attrayant said: This is just factually wrong. Long sought by North Korea, summit holds risks for Trump administration "Now, as a summit unexpectedly appears possible, analysts fear U.S. President Donald Trump’s understaffed administration may lack the expertise to successfully turn a political spectacle long sought by Pyongyang into a meaningful opportunity to convince North Korea to abandon its nuclear program. South Korean officials said Friday Trump almost immediately agreed to meet North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, without preconditions, by the end of May. Even proponents of a diplomatic approach towards North Korea worry the administration could be rushing into a summit with little time to prepare." Without preconditions. I believe the specific steps to de-nuclearization are the preconditions not required. The meeting is predicated on the elimination of nuclear wepons on the Korean Penninsula as pledged by Kim to Moon. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/27/606264786/peace-at-hand-korean-leaders-meet-for-historic-border-handshake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post spidermike007 Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 Again Tiny D. got played. He gets played alot. His inability to negotiate a deal is starting to demonstrate just who this man is. Alot easier to do a deal buying a building, or selling a condo, than negotiating a peace treaty. This guy is in so far over his head, and this demonstrates that. The North Koreans called Pence stupid, after he made a statement of such stupidity and ignorance, it boggles the mind. And mr thin skin cancels the summit. Go figure. I put the possibility of this summit happening at 10%. Perhaps I was being too optimistic. Captain Chaos just does not have a diplomatic bone in his body, nor is his 13 year old mind capable of the kind of elegance, humility, intelligence, foresight, and vision to engage in this kind of work. Fortunately for all of us, he will be gone from the scene within 12 months. Wait and see. The downfall of the blowhard is about to unfold. Good, good and better. The Tiny D. Reality TV show is drawing to a close. The world will celebrate his departure, stage left. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: I believe the specific steps to de-nuclearization are the preconditions not required. The meeting is predicated on the elimination of nuclear wepons on the Korean Penninsula as pledged by Kim to Moon. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/27/606264786/peace-at-hand-korean-leaders-meet-for-historic-border-handshake From the link you gave: “The two nations — technically in a state of war for more than six decades — would work toward a permanent peace treaty and the elimination of nuclear weapons from the peninsula.” The term ‘work toward’ is the key to understanding where you are getting this wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post attrayant Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: I believe the specific steps to de-nuclearization are the preconditions not required. That goes without saying. The meeting was just days away, so of course specifics wouldn't be expected. That's not what "without precondition" means. Canceling a summit before the ironing-out of any details have even been attempted is just insane. I don't care what either side is or isn't saying. Have the summit and work those details out. That's why we have summits. If, after the summit, things still can't be worked out, then at least Trump would have had something to stand on when it all falls apart. At least he could have said he tried. Now, if the two Koreas continue to make progress - even limited progress that doesn't include full denuclearization - that will have happened in Trump's absence and mark him as the fool that he is. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: From the link you gave: “The two nations — technically in a state of war for more than six decades — would work toward a permanent peace treaty and the elimination of nuclear weapons from the peninsula.” The term ‘work toward’ is the key to understanding where you are getting this wrong. "Work toward" indicates there is a result in mind. When that result is taken off the table what are you then working toward? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Trump was not played. On the contrary, Trump encouraged North Korea to come and talk, and he is the first world power to have done so without imposing pre-conditions. If anything he deserves praise for taking the risk and reaching out to Kim All that Pence did was to be truthful. The North started hemming, hawing and hesitating. Pence simply said what a possible outcome would be if the North did not consider discussing a peaceful, amicable resolution. Trump went out of his way to reassure Kim and to praise him. The North Koreans have been playing the west for decades and for the first time since Truman, the USA has a President who wasn't going to be played. The North is in trouble and our friends the Chinese intervened to derail any peace talks between the North and the west. The fact of the matter is that Japan is not going to sit by while the North Koreans fire nuclear missiles at it. People assume that the USA is pushing the hardline. It's Japan. And btw, the experts in South Korea predicted this would happen and at the time of the meeting announcement, said Trump would have to be firm. He actually followed their advice. It's a nice change. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atyclb Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: North Korea started the ball rolling by saying they were going to de-nuclearize the Korean Penninsula. They have since stated they have no intention of giving up their nuclear weapons and you are calling the nation that withdraws from the talks that were predicated on that de-nuclearization unreliable and insincere. In your Bizarro World that must mean Kim is a paragon of integrity and virtue. how dare you refer to participants of the worlds leading think tank bastion of academia and intellect, tv forum, as living in a "bizarro world" !!! Edited May 25, 2018 by atyclb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psimbo Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) Pyong Yang's 'open hostility'- he should be briefed on what his own men Bolton and Pence have said over the past week. This was on the cards for ages. I'm surprised fatty didn't tell him to stuff the summit up his backside. To do it on the day the DPRK blows up its (already wrecked) nuclear installation is just another of the Orange Buffoon's foot in mouth moments. As a pundit pointed out last month a summit was never going to work. First you sent the staffers in to do the grunt work, THEN you send the leaders in to make the announcements- in Trump-World the opposite is happening. He has ballsed up Iran, the Koreans have seen what happened in Libya (not on his watch I know) as well. The only person with a hard-on for him at the moment is Benny the Thug. Edit: noting the comments about Trump above its clear who the Americans and non-Americans are! Edited May 25, 2018 by Psimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Credo Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, geriatrickid said: Trump was not played. On the contrary, Trump encouraged North Korea to come and talk, and he is the first world power to have done so without imposing pre-conditions. If anything he deserves praise for taking the risk and reaching out to Kim All that Pence did was to be truthful. The North started hemming, hawing and hesitating. Pence simply said what a possible outcome would be if the North did not consider discussing a peaceful, amicable resolution. Trump went out of his way to reassure Kim and to praise him. The North Koreans have been playing the west for decades and for the first time since Truman, the USA has a President who wasn't going to be played. The North is in trouble and our friends the Chinese intervened to derail any peace talks between the North and the west. The fact of the matter is that Japan is not going to sit by while the North Koreans fire nuclear missiles at it. People assume that the USA is pushing the hardline. It's Japan. And btw, the experts in South Korea predicted this would happen and at the time of the meeting announcement, said Trump would have to be firm. He actually followed their advice. It's a nice change. Some interesting points, however, Trump failed to get his ducks in order, diplomatically speaking. He's been making his threats to China (mostly Trade) and without them being on the same page, it was going to fall apart quickly. What we have now is a Kim who is seen, to some degree, as a victim and sanctions are going to be hard, if not impossible to enforce. We already know that Russia was breaking the sanctions along with China. I am sure Iran will be more than happy to resume a friendly relationship. We are exactly back to the axis of evil days. Trump was played. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katipo Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 4 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said: Nope, Kim is now backtracking. Yes, this is the card I think Trump was playing (pun intended). By doing this he has removed NK's ability to play brinkmanship with the meeting. Kim will be under tremendous pressure to come back to the table. Trump's letter was still full of praise for Kim, so he will be able to come back without losing too much face if he handles it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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