Ireland votes in 'once-in-a-generation' abortion referendum

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Abortion shouldn't be a form of birth control. Push the birth control harder and make abortions rare and LEGAL. 

The fanatics fighting the right of women to have abortions are very often also campaigning against contraception.

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The fanatics fighting the right of women to have abortions are very often also campaigning against contraception.

 

Indeed and that's obviously messed up! 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Indeed and that's obviously messed up! 

Not when you examine their underlying arguments - Controlling women.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Not when you examine their underlying arguments - Controlling women.

Very good point. 

[DM07]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A fetus is at the very least a potential new life.

You could say sperm and eggs are as well but I wouldn't. 

This doesn't have to be a religious thing, either way.

There is a lot of intellectual dishonesty about these debates on different sides.

As someone that is pro-choice it is more convenient to act like a fetus isn't a life. But suppose it is. The pro-life people will say, then if that's OK then murder in general is OK. There is no logic in that! Ironically it's often the most extreme pro-life people that aren't interested in promoting life AFTER birth and they also tend to heavily be in favor or the death penalty. Go figure. 

"A fetus is at the very least a potential new life." Agreed...but a piece of metal is also a potential car! In my opinion, it makes very little sense, to discuss that.

"This doesn't have to be a religious thing, either way." But the subject is very often hi- jacked by the religious and political right, which in many cases make a discussion impossible, since religious "morality" is often a pretty effed up thing!

"But suppose it is. " I know, what you are saying...still I disagree! You can not lead a discussion on "suppose it is"! I think, it's clear -from a strictly scientific standpoint- from what time onwards a fetus is viable (I am not Englisch-speakin by birth...so I don't know, if that is the right word!) and when not. That's why late-term abortions are a very difficult matter!

"Ironically it's often the most extreme pro-life people that aren't interested in promoting life AFTER birth and they also tend to heavily be in favor or the death penalty. Go figure." 100% agreed!

[Jingthing]

Look, I get why it's politically necessary for the pro choice side to act like there isn't any merit to seeing a fetus as life. But politics and reality aren't the same thing. The two sides will remain firmly in their corners, never giving an inch. 

[Dumbastheycome]

7 hours ago, Rigby40 said:

Fine but how are we going against your freedoms? Killing innocent life is not freedom, in fact you're actually taking away freedom.

A   foetus is  not  an independant form of  life  and  incapable  of  survival  before the  majority of gestation has  passed without  artificial  support if  born.

Any  freedom of  choice  should then  remain  with  the  mother at  the  very  least . And  in  general practical  terms  this  is the  more  common  outcome  than  the  "miracle" interventions"  of  early  births  that result  in  damaged  children  more  often than  not!

As  others  have suggested  it  is   not  the  demand  for  abortion  that  is the   problem...It  is  the  cause  of  the  demand that  is  the  real  issue.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Dumbastheycome said:

A   foetus is  not  an independant form of  life  and  incapable  of  survival  before the  majority of gestation has  passed without  artificial  support if  born.

Any  freedom of  choice  should then  remain  with  the  mother at  the  very  least . And  in  general practical  terms  this  is the  more  common  outcome  than  the  "miracle" interventions"  of  early  births  that result  in  damaged  children  more  often than  not!

As  others  have suggested  it  is   not  the  demand  for  abortion  that  is the   problem...It  is  the  cause  of  the  demand that  is  the  real  issue.

An infant after birth is also not able to survive independently for a very, very long time. I'm just sick of the dishonesty on both sides. Of course, a fetus is a form of human life. 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Jingthing

[pegman]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Look, I get why it's politically necessary for the pro choice side to act like there isn't any merit to seeing a fetus as life. But politics and reality aren't the same thing. The two sides will remain firmly in their corners, never giving an inch. 

It's 100% about religion. How many non-religious pro-lifers are there? Any?

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, pegman said:

It's 100% about religion. How many non-religious pro-lifers are there? Any?

That's a good question and I hadn't considered it before. But I think that yes, there are.

 

http://www.prolifehumanists.org/secular-case-against-abortion/

[pegman]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

That's a good question and I hadn't considered it before. But I think that yes, there are.

 

http://www.prolifehumanists.org/secular-case-against-abortion/

Of Americans "...... just 12% of atheists and agnostics do." in describing  themselves as prolife.  Likely a hold over belief from early childhood brainwashing. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_Pro-Life

[Dumbastheycome]

On 5/25/2018 at 11:35 PM, Jingthing said:

An infant after birth is also not able to survive independently for a very, very long time. I'm just sick of the dishonesty on both sides. Of course, a fetus is a form of human life. 

 

 

You  conveniently  leave  out  the   "independant" form of life. 

The  vote  to  allow abortion in Eire is  not a  vote  for  the  wholesale  slaughter of  unborn   children.

It is a  vote  to provide   a  legal  end  to  prolific   back street  abortions and  the often lethal  horrific  outcomes  of  that !

It  is  vote  to   end  the  Catolik  slavery  of  young   girls and infants in the  name  of  something !

It  is a  vote  to  provide rationale and  humanitarian assistance  to  the  victims  of   rape, incest , enforced  prostitution that  previously was  denied to  other  than  the  priviledged!

It  is   vote  the  helps to lessen dilemma  for  doctors who  need to  provide sensible  advice  about genetic probabilities or  realities in  the  outcome  of   full term  births.

What  it  is   not  is  some gross   ticket to provide infantile  genocide which   remains  in  the  realm of  the  wealthy in  most  societies  and  always  has! !

If  it  be  your  preference  then  let  you  adopt, care take , compensate at  your   personal  cost  rather  than  the average  tax  payer!  The   cost no issue in  comparison  to the  virtue of  moral  indignation....right?

 

 

 

 

It  is  not a  vote  for  abortion  on demand!

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

...

It  is  not a  vote  for  abortion  on demand!

You're tripping. I'm pro choice and very happy to hear the results from Ireland. 

[Dumbastheycome]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're tripping. I'm pro choice and very happy to hear the results from Ireland. 

No  trip. No  trap.