Big bike forced off road by car on Bangkok highway - video

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Don't confuse yours, Netanyahu's, and Nikki Haley's opinions with facts. Nothing has been debunked at all. Just a smear campaign launched by Israel and parroted by you.

 

If the US had proposed a counter UN resolution for an open, independent, transparent inquiry to get to the bottom of the violence and deaths in the Great March of Return demonstrations, instead of playing games by wording an anti Hamas resolution to protect Israel that not a single other Security Council member voted for except USA, we may be approaching something like facts.

 

You are pretty much out there trying to dissociate Hamas from the protests. This even goes against Hamas's own statements. And regardless of your obvious lies and nonsense - the tone of the protests didn't have much to do with the supposed message you tout.

 

As for your absurd one-sided views - don't see you complaining about about the original resolution proposal failing to exhibit such balance. Guess that being biased is acceptable, as long as it fits your agenda.

 

Hamas definitely exhibited control of the protests - fact. Hamas definitely played a major part with regard to their organization and attendance - facts. Hamas definitely set the tone, and dictated the agenda - facts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dexterm]

18 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You are pretty much out there trying to dissociate Hamas from the protests. This even goes against Hamas's own statements. And regardless of your obvious lies and nonsense - the tone of the protests didn't have much to do with the supposed message you tout.

 

As for your absurd one-sided views - don't see you complaining about about the original resolution proposal failing to exhibit such balance. Guess that being biased is acceptable, as long as it fits your agenda.

 

Hamas definitely exhibited control of the protests - fact. Hamas definitely played a major part with regard to their organization and attendance - facts. Hamas definitely set the tone, and dictated the agenda - facts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are still confusing opinions with facts. You paint a very one sided picture.

 

I would hazard a guess that some? many? few? of the protesters may support Hamas. Belonging to a political party is not a crime punishable by death..unless of course you are an Israeli apologist. If a Palestinian rocket killed Likud supporting civilians, would you condemn anyone who said "Well they clearly deserved it then"

 

I recall reading the other day that Theresa May was critical of the death toll at the demonstrations, and called for an independent enquiry. But words are cheap of course unless UK proposes a 3rd balanced UN resolution. Don't know what's stopping it, although I can think of a few behind the scenes reasons. The protests may continue and it may be harder to sweep IDF psychopathy under the carpet, so we may yet get an independent transparent inquiry.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

I am not confusing anything with anything. The one disregarding facts is yourself. You've been doing the same on all topics related to these protests. You couldn't factually contradict any point raised, hence you rely on bogus comments. As for painting a "one-sided" picture - do your really want to go there? You?! And, of course, there wasn't actually anything "one-sided" in my posts.

 

I've no time for your guessing games. Considering your standing position is to deny, reject or ignore anything bearing negatively on the Palestinians side, all of your comments should, at best, be taken with a truckload of salt. You can try and twist things all you like - don't recall saying anything about belonging to a political party being a "crime punishable by death". Then again, portraying the Hamas as a mere "political party" is just another typical misleading statement. Instead of making up hypothetical scenarios and my reactions to them, perhaps reflect on the simple fact that the Likud party does not actually support a "military wing".

 

You can try to spin your "independent" investigation yarn all you like - about as factual as the rest of your nonsense.

[bristolboy]

17 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Something tells me a poster pretends to have a clue, but basically relies on Google to supply headiness and bits which appear to support whatever "argument" he pushes at any given moment. That you try to preempt comments relating a more in-depth take, is quite telling.

 

I seriously doubt you have a firm grasp of who the people interviewed or mentioned are. Most represent fringe groups, with minimal support, and have been doing so for years - without their ideas actually getting that fabled traction.

 

How the idea is marketed is one thing - what it implies, how it could be carried out, and how the people interpret this, is another story. The article chooses not to go into the problematic parts, more so when these relate to Palestinian perceptions. A good example would be citing 30% support. This actually relies on single item in a poll, formulated in a very simplistic way.

 

As said, not quite what this topic is about.

"Something tells me a poster pretends to have a clue, but basically relies on Google to supply headiness and bits which appear to support whatever "argument" he pushes at any given moment. That you try to preempt comments relating a more in-depth take, is quite telling."

 

How low can you go? Apparently, very. If I used google to cite some source of dubious provenancey you would have a point. But, in fact, the source I got my information from is the New York Times. You got a problem with the New York Times? Do you seriously believe or expect others to believe that the assertions of an anonymous poster should be trusted over a report from the New York Times?

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

 

@bristolboy / @ilostmypassword

 

Same old faux indignation, trying to associate your own posts with the New York Times etc. On the off-chance you actually don't get it, let's try again. My point was that you habitually quote googled bits, without your posts conveying much clue or in-depth take beyond what you link. Other than rehashing the contents of such links, or building castles in the air upon such "foundations", you contribute relatively little to these "discussions".

 

And while you adulation of media sources and reports supporting whichever argument you push is dully noted, that still doesn't make them all gospel. Notably, you don't even bother addressing points raised, but simply rely on the absurd force of "it was in the New York Times".

 

You could try the "anonymous poster" nonsense, sure. But then again, I post quite often on related topics, and it would take quite a stretch to assert I haven't got a clue. Case in point, examples were given as to certain issues with both your assertions and those made in the article linked. As said in response to similar, past faux tantrums - posters find it hard to accept that we do not all share the same background, knowledge or experience. That's all the more obvious with those insisting on being instant know-it-all's on a whole array of topics.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

@bristolboy / @ilostmypassword

 

Same old faux indignation, trying to associate your own posts with the New York Times etc. On the off-chance you actually don't get it, let's try again. My point was that you habitually quote googled bits, without your posts conveying much clue or in-depth take beyond what you link. Other than rehashing the contents of such links, or building castles in the air upon such "foundations", you contribute relatively little to these "discussions".

 

And while you adulation of media sources and reports supporting whichever argument you push is dully noted, that still doesn't make them all gospel. Notably, you don't even bother addressing points raised, but simply rely on the absurd force of "it was in the New York Times".

 

You could try the "anonymous poster" nonsense, sure. But then again, I post quite often on related topics, and it would take quite a stretch to assert I haven't got a clue. Case in point, examples were given as to certain issues with both your assertions and those made in the article linked. As said in response to similar, past faux tantrums - posters find it hard to accept that we do not all share the same background, knowledge or experience. That's all the more obvious with those insisting on being instant know-it-all's on a whole array of topics.

You made assertions but as usual you didn't back them up with evidence. And yes, the New York Times can get it wrong, but you're unsupported say so isn't close to enough.

[Morch]

 

@bristolboy / @ilostmypassword

 

The same old song and dance. Always pretending the very same issue was never raised, never discussed. Always need for everything to be rehashed over and over again. How many times do you suppose we need to go over an issue, before it becomes repetitive and redundant to re-link "evidence" which was linked numerous times before? But by all means, do go on about "how low" etc.

 

And always with them spins and lame attempts to turn the tables:

 

You "asserted" that "actually there is a movement among Palestinians to forego the 2 state solution and follow a 1 state solution". My comment? "Whether such a "movement" actually exists, whether it holds much sway, and whether the notions implied are quite what some posters advertise, can be debated."

 

The article you linked does not exactly support your "actually" assertion. Unless you intend to develop yet another off tangent side argument about what "movement" means. When this is pointed out, in more detail than you bothered to in your original post, you launch one of your standard issue faux indignation posts, where you could have easily debunked my comments, had you thought they held no merit. Obviously, you cannot.

 

Your demands to be spoon fed notwithstanding, it's not too hard looking up the people involved (even disregarding some, and their views, were previously discussed). None of them commands considerable political support. Various initiatives advocating this have been around for a while, most not getting anywhere in terms of actual traction, effecting the political map or even managing to remain united regarding proposals. Some of this is covered in the article itself, if one isn't too blinkered.

 

You're simply doing what you always do - pick off topic arguments over issues you don't really know all that much about. Then spin them on and on, derailing the topic further.

 

[bristolboy]

13 hours ago, Morch said:

 

@bristolboy / @ilostmypassword

 

The same old song and dance. Always pretending the very same issue was never raised, never discussed. Always need for everything to be rehashed over and over again. How many times do you suppose we need to go over an issue, before it becomes repetitive and redundant to re-link "evidence" which was linked numerous times before? But by all means, do go on about "how low" etc.

 

And always with them spins and lame attempts to turn the tables:

 

You "asserted" that "actually there is a movement among Palestinians to forego the 2 state solution and follow a 1 state solution". My comment? "Whether such a "movement" actually exists, whether it holds much sway, and whether the notions implied are quite what some posters advertise, can be debated."

 

The article you linked does not exactly support your "actually" assertion. Unless you intend to develop yet another off tangent side argument about what "movement" means. When this is pointed out, in more detail than you bothered to in your original post, you launch one of your standard issue faux indignation posts, where you could have easily debunked my comments, had you thought they held no merit. Obviously, you cannot.

 

Your demands to be spoon fed notwithstanding, it's not too hard looking up the people involved (even disregarding some, and their views, were previously discussed). None of them commands considerable political support. Various initiatives advocating this have been around for a while, most not getting anywhere in terms of actual traction, effecting the political map or even managing to remain united regarding proposals. Some of this is covered in the article itself, if one isn't too blinkered.

 

You're simply doing what you always do - pick off topic arguments over issues you don't really know all that much about. Then spin them on and on, derailing the topic further.

 

"Whether such a "movement" actually exists, whether it holds much sway, and whether the notions implied are quite what some posters advertise, can be debated."

 

This sounds like an all-purpose algorithm that's been borrowed from a Turing Machine.

[Morch]

 

@bristolboy / @ilostmypassword

 

And your comment sounds like run-of-the-mill nothing-of-substance-to-add trolling. Considering the current exchange is not even on topic, and was brought about by your own comment - quite an achievement.

 

[Rimmer]

An off topic bickering/baiting post has been removed

[KhunFred]

On 6/10/2018 at 2:40 PM, dexterm said:

Now that Trump has taken the supposedly final status issue of Jerusalem "off the table" although he has left himself some slight wriggle room and with Israel continuing its expansion of illegal settlements and laws being debated to allow Israel's annexation of privately owned Palestinian land, there doesn't seem much of a two state solution left. Therefore a one state solution seems inevitable.

 

The demonstrators in the OP are protesting under the banner the "Great March of Return" because of course the majority of Gazan families have been ethnically cleansed from what is now Israel. The wording is quite significant and this theme may be a sign of the changing times. IMO the next generation should move the emphasis away from a two state solution after decades of stonewalling and futile negotiations, to an anti apartheid campaign and calls for a single democratic state.

How about a ONE STATE SOLUTION.  The place is called ISRAEL.....the people are called ISRAELIS. The rest need to leave.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

How about a ONE STATE SOLUTION.  The place is called ISRAEL.....the people are called ISRAELIS. The rest need to leave.

 

What about them Arab citizens of Israel? Are they to "leave" as well?

And do tell - where will the Palestinian "leave" to? And who'll make them?

Getting away with maintaining the occupation is one thing, most of the time the world lives with that (mainly due to the Palestinians making it easy for Israel) - forcefully kicking out millions of people, though....doubtful it will go without a response.

[dexterm]

Here is the UN Commissioner for Human Rights speaking specifically about the background which led to the OP UN resolution and the casualties involved. The first 5 minutes deals with the situation in Gaza.