Cobra Swamp Is Reclaiming Bangkok's Showpiece Airport

[sriracha john]

Bangkok Post's Postbag:

Dare he fly in?

As a Thai citizen, I urge the current well-intentioned government not to reopen Don Muang Airport until after the election takes place, on the pure and simple assumption that the former PM will not dare risk his life by landing on the runway at Suvarnabhumi.

VEJ

[manjara]

Why do they so stubbornly refuse to follow the leadership of the West?

London has shown them the way to go, with London(Heathrow), London (Gatwick), London (Luton) and London (Stansted).

....

I take it that's a joke?! London is one of the most frustrating places to fly into/out of.

If the airports were actually joined up with (free) high-speed links then I might agree that it's a good approach. But have you actually tried to get from Gatwick to Stansted or Luton to make a connection.

I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[Chang_paarp]

Does anyone remember the relevant passage from Monty Python and the Holy Grail??

The piece about the castle that fell into the swamp, then burned down then fell into the swamp, then an eathquake came and the third one fell in to swamp, BUT the fourth one stayed up!!!!

It was just after the Knights who say Niii!!

[manjara]

Timing of Don Muang Airport domestic reopening critical for Songkran

Transport Minister Thira Haocharoen on Tuesday expressed hope to see the recently-decommissioned Don Muang International Airport reopen for domestic flights prior to the Songkran (Thai New Year) festival so that it could serve a large number of inbound and outbound passengers.

Lt. Pinit said other service infrastructure including airport shops, restaurants, passenger terminals, taxis and other transport links would be ready within a month. Total renovation budget stood at Bt33 million.

Source: TNA - 31 January 2007

Inbound? DM is being reopened for domestic flights only. How many people fly from the provinces to Bangkok for Songkran? I thought the biggest migration was people getting out of Bangkok for the holiday and most of those used the roads or rails. They'll need to ensure speedy transfers of any incoming passengers requiring transfers from Suvarnabhumi to Don Muang, remebering that when they booked their tickets they would have allowed transfer times based on same airport.

As for the infrastructure, never mind the bluddy shops etc how about making sure the two airport's air traffic control systems talk to each other. And make sure that there are enough qualified air traffic controllers available to cover both operations safely.

All the people that go from Bangkok to the provinces tend to come back! Hence Inbound as well as outbound.

It also said non-connecting flights (though that probably won't stop some people being booked on them!)

It is very strange to me that they did not keep Don Muang open at least for a while after Suvarnabhumi opened. I suppose the words 'Disaster Recovery Planning' lost a lot in translation.

[johnh101]

So whilst everyone figures out the quick fix for the new airport someone should start thinking of alternatives.

Switching all domestic flights to Don Muang is a good idea but what about opening U Tapao as an official international airport and make that Thailand's second international airport. Quite a lot of people who land in bangkok are heading on to the eastern seaboard anyway, sorry, but it makes sense to me.

[dwwin]

And make sure that there are enough qualified air traffic controllers available to cover both operations safely.

That really worries me. Considered the thai attitude towards safety plus the bad English of some of the pilots and the Thinglish of the guys in the tower is a disaster in waiting. But whatever they do, it will remain a f***** up situation for quite some time to come.

Unless of course they do the only right thing to do and go back to DM completely. IMHO

[begsaresponse]

I'm reminded of a film...'That sinking feeling'. I don't know if anyone remembers it or not?

But I have just had a scary thought in relation to all the high rise condominiums they are building particularly in Pattaya.

I do know that there are areas in Pattaya that were reclaimed from swamp.

I have no knowledge if any high rise buildings in Pattaya are sinking or not! Perhaps the City Father ought to review the construction of such structures to ensure they do not sink?

[Thaddeus]

Does anyone remember the relevant passage from Monty Python and the Holy Grail??

The piece about the castle that fell into the swamp, then burned down then fell into the swamp, then an eathquake came and the third one fell in to swamp, BUT the fourth one stayed up!!!!

It was just after the Knights who say Niii!!

Yip ...... the Princess had huge tracts of land.

And a line suits Taky

"One day son, all this will be yours"

"What, the curtains"

[thohts]

This is so funny! Where's my popcorn?

This would make a good 'Snakes on the Plane' sequel. Except the plane doesn't even have to go anywhere! It could just sink into the swamp as it taxis.

[dwwin]

This is so funny! Where's my popcorn?

This would make a good 'Snakes on the Plane' sequel. Except the plane doesn't even have to go anywhere! It could just sink into the swamp as it taxis.

Now you know for what the swim wests are Submarines are on standby. All planes landing at Cobra Swamp are required to have escape flaps on top of the plane.

Edited January 31, 2007 by dwwin

[musicman2004uk]

Better watch out !. They'll be targeting 'farangs' that are over the top on duty frees to pay for the repairs on the new airport. If you are over the top as most of us are it will be fines, fines, fines. Keep to your limits peeps !

[PETERTHEEATER]

Sumet Jumsai, one of Thailand’s top architects, however, insists that the airport would have collapsed — corruption or not. Fifteen years ago he had fought against its location on a swamp. “Nature is now taking its toll in this swamp, and I feel everyone has got it wrong in the ongoing investigation,” he said. “The bottom line is that with or without corruption the runways and any structure not on piles will be subject to differential settlement and cracks.”

You do not need to be a brain surgeon to realise that concrete and steel do not float very well.

The entire merchant fleet at sea will disagree with your last statement.

[John K]

So have they stopped the little promotional clip on the Skytrain yet?

[PhilHarries]

So whilst everyone figures out the quick fix for the new airport someone should start thinking of alternatives.

Switching all domestic flights to Don Muang is a good idea but what about opening U Tapao as an official international airport and make that Thailand's second international airport. Quite a lot of people who land in bangkok are heading on to the eastern seaboard anyway, sorry, but it makes sense to me.

This has been talked about for as long as anyone can remember, and it's never got beyond talk.

I think the problem is that the majority of passengers on any scheduled airplane flying to Thailand either want to go to Bangkok, fly on to one of the provinces or fly on internationally. Whereas it would be good for Pattaya and the eastern seaboard it would be grossly inconvenient for the other destinations unless it were provided with a fast rail link to BKK. Look at the current track record of the authorities in LOS considering transport links and you'll see that is not going to happen.

Even so the infrastructure necessary to upgrade U Tapao means it aint gonna be a quick fix.

Despite the problems, talk of a complete switch back to Don Muang is just wild bar room chat. Just think of the compensation claims from all the airlines who have just transferred to Suvarnabhumi which of course will pale into insignificance compared to King Power's claim. Then there's the problems ressurecting the facilities at DM. I don't know what state they left the place in but I would bet they weren't too fussy when ripping out the services.

I can forsee domestic and low cost carriers transferring plus maybe a few smaller international airlines but not the majors. This would take some pressure off Suvarnabhumi and allow time for properly engineered repairs not just cut and paste patches.

[Losangels]

Yes AOT promtional clip is gone from the skytrain.

They have to pull it out because some passengers may fall-off the seats from laughing.

[Johpa]

The legend of Armageddon is based on a city not unlike Suvannabhum's. Megiddo, Northern Israel, was razed and rebuilt a staggering 27 times!!!

And perhaps the disaster that is Suwanaphum Airport, a disaster long predicted and anticipated by countless soothsayers and armchair prophets, will also be the begining of the apocalypse for the Bangkok Thai elite, as Meggido is prophesized for the western world (Har Meggido=Armegeddon), that the Bangkok elite will meet its well deserved doom in a final battle once the populace gets the bill (chekbin please) after they close the swamp to air travel. Alas, many of the older Thai prophesies seem to be coming into alignment. The end is near.

Chaiyo!

Wait, they are going to sell the soon-to-be useless airport to Disney for the long anticipated Thai Disney world and site of the future Olympic games.

Edited January 31, 2007 by Johpa

[Howmal]

Well Well Well ...its that SINKING feeling we are having now..

They are worried about tourist not coming to the Airport

They rushed to get it open without proper tests and it was like arriving in a SWAMP I flew into it two days after it opened

A nightmere in Elm Street Thai style

HAve they also decided now to drop the silly rules imposed by Mr T before he was booted out and return to the old ways of getting VISA

Is Mr Brains sitting in BKK or will we call in Thunderbirds to the rescue

I joke the whole thing is at the moment

They are running around like Headless chickens

The chickens are talking to the DUCKs Gai Jai gap Bpat

[mitrapaap]

Sumet Jumsai, one of Thailand’s top architects, however, insists that the airport would have collapsed — corruption or not. Fifteen years ago he had fought against its location on a swamp. “Nature is now taking its toll in this swamp, and I feel everyone has got it wrong in the ongoing investigation,” he said. “The bottom line is that with or without corruption the runways and any structure not on piles will be subject to differential settlement and cracks.”

You do not need to be a brain surgeon to realise that concrete and steel do not float very well.

Actually concrete and steel are capable of floating very well, however the problem at the airport is the under laying material (swamp) cannot carry the load of the structures and runway. The engineering reason for this is too complex for this posting but was not a problem if approached in the correct manner. The overall engineering problem is differential setlement as address by khun Sumet 's assessment - "The bottom line is that with or without corruption the runways and any structure not on piles will be subject to differential settlement and cracks.”

Correct me if I'm wrong. I have read somewhere that the engineer(s) of this ariport was/were western people. I now read that a Thai star engineer says whatever is not on piles will sink. Did they really not consult their own people at all? I mean would a Thai engineer not be more familiar with the grounds of this country than western engineers? Again, I might be wrong on some or all of the above. Was just a thought (I had since quite a time).

[mitrapaap]

And make sure that there are enough qualified air traffic controllers available to cover both operations safely.

That really worries me. Considered the thai attitude towards safety plus the bad English of some of the pilots and the Thinglish of the guys in the tower is a disaster in waiting. But whatever they do, it will remain a f***** up situation for quite some time to come.

Unless of course they do the only right thing to do and go back to DM completely. IMHO

Don't overdue the worrying. Thai airtraffic safety has nothing to do with the technical and or construction problems found at the new airport. And not only Thai airtraffic officers and not only Thai pilots have an accent when speaking English. I don't want to go into details or guesses which nation's english will probably be the worst and ununderstandable, but I'm quite sure is not Thinglish.

[ColPyat]

Alas, many of the older Thai prophesies seem to be coming into alignment. The end is near.

Chaiyo!

It appears so.

Rather interesting is that the more things shape up, the lesser this is talked about compared to many years ago.

[dwwin]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I have read somewhere that the engineer(s) of this ariport was/were western people. I now read that a Thai star engineer says whatever is not on piles will sink. Did they really not consult their own people at all? I mean would a Thai engineer not be more familiar with the grounds of this country than western engineers? Again, I might be wrong on some or all of the above. Was just a thought (I had since quite a time).

Actually, the geologists are the first on a big construction site.

[robint]

In case you have overlooked it, the whole of bang kok is built on a swamp and its sinking, so whats new

As a retired designer, i can quote my own experience. You carry out you design strictly in accordance with the agreed design codes (which are specified at the start of the contract). You issue your plans for approval, then the Client sends your specs out for procurement and tender. Lots of closed door sessions and the Client comes back and tells you your design is wrong and he is not going to pay untill you correct it by altering your specs bla bla. Most you can do because the Client has told you his preferences and you dont care, its not your money. You have to dig your heels in when it comes to safety, structural integrity etc but the Client has weasel words that puts the responsibility on the builder. So you finish your design and leave the country. Everyone forgets about you, on to the next shambles

So the Client has the design and the masters (reproducibles so he can alter the design - or these days the computer file). Scrub out the number of toilets, escalators cost saving here there and after 10 years no one can remember wht the original design was about. No one says anything as they are all on a nice little earner - huge gravy train - for 30 years. So you get what you pay for

What you cannot skimp on is fouondations and structural components. Most other things can be corrected at huge cost afterwards. If those concrete slabs are really unsound then the problem wont settle and go away and the rework cost will be enourmous and very public

This disgrace could go on for years

[BlackJack]

hold all Taxins ill gotten gains $$$$$$$$$ and use them to pay for Don to be refurbished and opened again

Let the Swampaporn airport rot away as a monument to the Taxin era

let people watch it sink and hope it sinks in

[Screws]

From what I have heard bedrock is 500 meters plus below SWB.

Them's long piles!

[Screws]

PhilHarries said "I can forsee domestic and low cost carriers transferring plus maybe a few smaller international airlines but not the majors. This would take some pressure off Suvarnabhumi and allow time for properly engineered repairs not just cut and paste patches."

But it is the majors flights that are causing the rapid breakup of the runway.

Smaller planes might be ok. at SWB, Don Muang we know can take the majors, SWB can't.

Or U Ta Pao.

'Properly engineered repairs' means completely rebuilding runways and taxiways & god knows what else.

Perhaps SWB could be one of the nicest domestic airports around?

[garysdth]

PhilHarries said "I can forsee domestic and low cost carriers transferring plus maybe a few smaller international airlines but not the majors. This would take some pressure off Suvarnabhumi and allow time for properly engineered repairs not just cut and paste patches."

But it is the majors flights that are causing the rapid breakup of the runway.

Smaller planes might be ok. at SWB, Don Muang we know can take the majors, SWB can't.

Or U Ta Pao.

'Properly engineered repairs' means completely rebuilding runways and taxiways & god knows what else.

Perhaps SWB could be one of the nicest domestic airports around?

"Screws" might just have it right. Move the majors, they fly the heavy planes. 747's weigh more than 737's. Don Muang is built on bed rock, that is one of the reasons it is there. Years ago that site was selected for an airport because it would be usable even when other areas flood and it had the right geology for stability.

An unmentioned problem at Suvarnapum is the fact that it has only two runways. The congestion at Don Muang when it was operating was at the end of the runway. Airplanes backed up in the sky and on the ground waiting for clearance to land or takeoff because there were too many planes trying to use only two runways.

With the same amount of traffic using only two runways at Suvarnapum it is only natural that you would also have the same congestion. Major design flaw for the move to Suvarnapum is not having 3 or 4 runways when it opened. the two runway situation is what actually limits the number of passengers that can move through the airport, not the terminal or gates that are still useable.

If the majors and the connecting flights were moved to Don Muang perhaps Suvarnapum could operate with one runway while the other is repaired. Don Muang could be the alternate if there is a runway incident closing the operating runway. Also the 737's and 320's should not be a weight factor using the taxi ways and gates, and the gates could be used for all the discount airlines as there would be enough gates for the convenience of the passengers not having to deal with the bus rides.

[ColPyat]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I have read somewhere that the engineer(s) of this ariport was/were western people. I now read that a Thai star engineer says whatever is not on piles will sink. Did they really not consult their own people at all? I mean would a Thai engineer not be more familiar with the grounds of this country than western engineers? Again, I might be wrong on some or all of the above. Was just a thought (I had since quite a time).

Actually, the geologists are the first on a big construction site.

Not entirely correct.

The first ones will be feng shui masters, spirit mediums and astrologists.

[kmart]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I have read somewhere that the engineer(s) of this ariport was/were western people. I now read that a Thai star engineer says whatever is not on piles will sink. Did they really not consult their own people at all? I mean would a Thai engineer not be more familiar with the grounds of this country than western engineers? Again, I might be wrong on some or all of the above. Was just a thought (I had since quite a time).

Actually, the geologists are the first on a big construction site.

Not entirely correct.

The first ones will be feng shui masters, spirit mediums and astrologists.

Don't forget the saffron spongers either.

[drenoi]

Alas, many of the older Thai prophesies seem to be coming into alignment. The end is near.

Chaiyo!

It appears so.

Rather interesting is that the more things shape up, the lesser this is talked about compared to many years ago.

Yes indeed, I haven't heard anyone speak about it for a long time. How's it going to happen? At this stage it looks like nuclear war or could be something nature related like the ocean rising to cover all land or a metor out of left field.. Since the republicians inclding bush also believe in doomsday perhaps they will be the one to 'push the button' Still can't rule out the supprise attack from some killer virus.... According to the 'prophecies' it's 2011 right or 2010? not long now... dont forget to say your prayers.

[thaimat]

hold all Taxins ill gotten gains $$$$$ and use them to pay for Don to be refurbished and opened again

Let the Swampaporn airport rot away as a monument to the Taxin era

let people watch it sink and hope it sinks in

On the Thai news this morning, a new airport tax rate has been created, Old domestic flight tax was 50 baht, it is now 100 baht. International flight tax was 500 baht, but is now 700 baht. Reclaimed Thaksin money will go into coffers, pockets, it's the tourists who will pay for the eternal and endless patching of Cobra Swamp Airport. Does anyone here actually believe they will close the snake swamp in order to fix it correctrly? If so, then you have either not lived here long, or your sunglasses are that extra dark rosy variety made famous by Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles.