Generator power?

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, CGW said:

All the "essentials" that I could run from Genset are on this board,

In that case I would be looking at the option in post #20, I think that would minimise your costs. 

[CGW]

Incoming cable!

 

[Fruit Trader]

The original approved supply has been split two more times with what looks like 10mm CTW cable. Where do they all go?

[CGW]

Not sure if this is one run or two! meaning that this continues into the house.

 

[CGW]

Just now, Fruit Trader said:

The original approved supply has been split two more times with what looks like 10mm CTW cable. Where do they all go?

A new supply was taken from the meter, don't know what 10mm CTW cable is?

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, CGW said:

don't know what 10mm CTW cable is?

Too small for a 100A breaker ?

 

But there seems to be a lot of splitting going on at the meter, I would leave that well alone for now.

[Fruit Trader]

Just now, CGW said:

A new supply was taken from the meter, don't know what 10mm CTW cable is?

The original meter cables are the heavy black ones, The additions are the twin black and white cables.

This looks like a 3 way split.

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, Fruit Trader said:

The original meter cables are the heavy black ones, The additions are the twin black and white cables.

This looks like a 3 way split.

Hopefully, the new cables have 50A (maybe 63A) breakers on the other end.

 

Apart from the lack of earth-leakage protection, I don't see and immediate hazards.

[Fruit Trader]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

Hopefully, the new cables have 50A (maybe 63A) breakers on the other end.

I am just curious to know what they are for and why the heavy blacks are not at the house distribution board 

 

 

[CGW]

6 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

I am just curious to know what they are for and why the heavy blacks are not at the house distribution board 

Briefly, I bought a house and doubled the size of it, the new side of the house, which is where the pictured JB is has new JB and new mains cables run from the meter.

Was finished about four years ago, without tempting fate!! there have been no electrical issues.

[Crossy]

6 hours ago, CGW said:

Was finished about four years ago, without tempting fate!! there have been no electrical issues.

That's the problem with electrics, there's never an issue until there is ?

 

The sensible solution would have been to run sub-mains off the existing board to the new areas, unfortunately, that wasn't done, we are where we are.

 

What size main breakers do the other boards have?

 

[bankruatsteve]

My photo observations are obviously not astute, but it looks like there are cables going off from the main breaker to <where>?  Maybe to another box?

[Thian]

On 6/2/2018 at 9:58 AM, Crossy said:

Have a look in the threads I linked to earlier, there are a few examples of simple (cheap) interlocked switches.

 

For less than $10 this is good value https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2P-63A-MTS-Dual-power-Manual-transfer-switch-Circuit-breaker-MCB-50HZ-60HZ-400/32786129292.html

 

Using this switch it's still possible to turn the mains and generator on at the same time, isn't it?

 

Better buy a switch like this online (free shipping)...i have no experience with them though but other electric material from this shop that i bought was made of a good quality.

 

https://www.banggood.com/2P-63A-230V-Micro-Circuit-Breaker-MCB-Type-Dual-Power-Automatic-Transfer-Switch-p-1192811.html?gmcCountry=NL&amp;currency=EUR&amp;utm_source=googleshopping&amp;utm_medium=cpc_elc&amp;utm_content=felix2&amp;utm_campaign=pla-all2-nbrand-nl-en-pc&amp;gclid=CjwKCAjwo87YBRBgEiwAI1LkqYylmL0SGsGbJQBowxedD8HqhH1N-F-gzwzLLZfzvhTZ4LwO2mA-WxoCl9kQAvD_BwE&amp;cur_warehouse=CN

[Crossy]

6 hours ago, Thian said:

Using this switch it's still possible to turn the mains and generator on at the same time, isn't it?

No!

 

The two sides are mechanically interlocked, one is on the other won't turn on (you can move the lever but the breaker won't close).

 

I have one in front of me, you are welcome to come and test (and have a few ales and barbie) if you wish.

 

[bankruatsteve]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

No!

 

The two sides are mechanically interlocked, one is on the other won't turn on (you can move the lever but the breaker won't close).

 

I have one in front of me, you are welcome to test if you wish.

 

How do you switch it?  Pull one up, push the other down?  What if I only have one hand?

[Crossy]

6 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

How do you switch it?  Pull one up, push the other down?  What if I only have one hand?

One on, one off. If you operate the "off" side the "on" side will open.

 

It's best to turn off both before turning either on.

[Thian]

6 minutes ago, Crossy said:

No!

 

The two sides are mechanically interlocked, one is on the other won't turn on (you can move the lever).

 

I have one in front of me, you are welcome to test if you wish.

 

I see, well then it should work safe. But for me i would like see letters or signs on it to know which one is on/off.

 

That one from banggood  wouldn't be suitable for thailand i guess:

 

4.Normal conditions for operation and installation:
Environmental Temperature Condition:-5~+40°C
Installation site is not more than 2000 meters above sea level.
Pollution Level: Grade 3
Installation Category:  3
Vertical installation or horizontal installation

 

[bankruatsteve]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

One on, one off. If you operate the "off" side the "on" side will open.

 

It's best to turn off both before turning either on.

Personally, I prefer the switches that do both at the same time.  Switch - done.  DPDT

[Crossy]

6 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Personally, I prefer the switches that do both at the same time.  Switch - done.  DPDT

Agreed, but it's one of the cheapest, safe, units on the market.

 

And infinitely safer than a lead with a plug on both ends which our OP is currently using.

 

[Crossy]

6 hours ago, Thian said:

I see, well then it should work safe. But for me i would like see letters or signs on it to know which one is on/off.

Behind the left side lever ("on" in the photo) is a legend indicating up=on, down=off.

[CGW]

23 minutes ago, Crossy said:

The sensible solution would have been to run sub-mains off the existing board to the new areas, unfortunately, that wasn't done, we are where we are.

What size main breakers do the other boards have?

The problem running from the "existing board" was the mains cables wouldn't have been big enough to handle the extra load , least that was my understanding.

The other two main boards both have 63a main breakers.

[Crossy]

6 hours ago, CGW said:

The other two main boards both have 63a main breakers.

So, let's do some sums shall we.

 

63 + 63 + 100 = 226A = 126% potential overload of the meter!

 

A 50A breaker in the main board for each of the sub-mains would have done the job just fine. The 100A incomer would protect the meter.

 

Meters are incredibly robust. In reality, that level of overload wouldn't cause it to go pop, but it would affect the accuracy. Bet it wouldn't read low!

 

[Fruit Trader]

26 minutes ago, CGW said:

The problem running from the "existing board" was the mains cables wouldn't have been big enough to handle the extra load , least that was my understanding.

The other two main boards both have 63a main breakers.

There's a good chance the feed cables shown in your breaker board photo are 10mm going into a 100A main switch. Post No 17

 

Hope we have not opened a can of worms here. ?

[CGW]

1 hour ago, Fruit Trader said:

There's a good chance the feed cables shown in your breaker board photo are 10mm going into a 100A main switch. Post No 17

 

Hope we have not opened a can of worms here. ?

You have lost me? what is (possibly?) wrong with the cables?

Thanks...

[Crossy]

8 hours ago, CGW said:

You have lost me? what is (possibly?) wrong with the cables?

Thanks...

Too small for the breaker. 10mm² is rated for around 67A, for 100A you need 25mm² (16mm² would be on the line with a rating of 92A).

[billd766]

Crossy

 

I am getting fed up once again with power outages so this week I will go to the big city AKA Khampaeng Phet and look for a standby generator.  It will probably be a 6500 (or 6.5) KVA which will be far too large and an over kill at this time and it will not be fitted with ATS which makes it cheaper and saves the problem of changeover switches etc.

 

My plan is to run power to a separate set of sockets completely isolated from the main system and clearly labelled as such.

 

One o/p from the generator will go to a socket next to the existing water pump and from there into the house to another socket underneath my present socket set up which powers 1 fan and then to a UPS leading to the router and computers power supplies. I will run another cable from there to another 6 way extension block that can provide outlets for 1 more fan and the possibility of another extension to run a couple of fans and the upstairs TV.

 

The extension leads will be coiled up and out of the way when not in use.

 

The other o/p from the generator I will run to my neighbours house to do the same thing.

 

The first o/p will be about 25 to 30 metres long and the second perhaps 40 metres.

 

I would like to use 2 mm/sq cable, either the white covered single core cable or the grey 2 core flexible stuff.

 

Do you think that this is feasible Crossy?

[bankruatsteve]

8 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Crossy

 

I am getting fed up once again with power outages so this week I will go to the big city AKA Khampaeng Phet and look for a standby generator.  It will probably be a 6500 (or 6.5) KVA which will be far too large and an over kill at this time and it will not be fitted with ATS which makes it cheaper and saves the problem of changeover switches etc.

 

My plan is to run power to a separate set of sockets completely isolated from the main system and clearly labelled as such.

 

One o/p from the generator will go to a socket next to the existing water pump and from there into the house to another socket underneath my present socket set up which powers 1 fan and then to a UPS leading to the router and computers power supplies. I will run another cable from there to another 6 way extension block that can provide outlets for 1 more fan and the possibility of another extension to run a couple of fans and the upstairs TV.

 

The extension leads will be coiled up and out of the way when not in use.

 

The other o/p from the generator I will run to my neighbours house to do the same thing.

 

The first o/p will be about 25 to 30 metres long and the second perhaps 40 metres.

 

I would like to use 2 mm/sq cable, either the white covered single core cable or the grey 2 core flexible stuff.

 

Do you think that this is feasible Crossy?

Hey Bill, I note you have addressed to Crossy but I'll jump in anyway.  Bill, your plan is most likely feasible but it will drive you crazy after maybe once.  Imagine doing that in the middle of the night or after happy hour?  Let's see what Crossy suggests but I think you are going to want to set up separate CUs for the circuits you want covered.  Have a transfer switch in front of each with connection to the mains and your genset.  With a power out, it would then be just a matter of powering up the gen and flipping 2-3 transfer switches.  You really don't want to be bothered with rolling out extension cables.  I have never heard of 2mm² ("normal" for outlets is 2.5mm²).  Cheers.

[billd766]

21 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Hey Bill, I note you have addressed to Crossy but I'll jump in anyway.  Bill, your plan is most likely feasible but it will drive you crazy after maybe once.  Imagine doing that in the middle of the night or after happy hour?  Let's see what Crossy suggests but I think you are going to want to set up separate CUs for the circuits you want covered.  Have a transfer switch in front of each with connection to the mains and your genset.  With a power out, it would then be just a matter of powering up the gen and flipping 2-3 transfer switches.  You really don't want to be bothered with rolling out extension cables.  I have never heard of 2mm² ("normal" for outlets is 2.5mm²).  Cheers.

 

Hi Steve I thought that the next cable size up was 2mm but 2.5  is OK.

 

Doing it the way I plan is the KISS method and easy for everyone to understand. Two separate systems NOT connected in any way will less hassle than a transfer switch and safer if the power goes off if I am not there.

 

When the mains comes back the lights etc will come on  and then just shut the genny down, put the plugs back in the right sockets and roll up the extension leads ready for the next time. Let the genny cool down and then refill it.

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

9 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Hi Steve I thought that the next cable size up was 2mm but 2.5  is OK.

 

Doing it the way I plan is the KISS method and easy for everyone to understand. Two separate systems NOT connected in any way will less hassle than a transfer switch and safer if the power goes off if I am not there.

 

When the mains comes back the lights etc will come on  and then just shut the genny down, put the plugs back in the right sockets and roll up the extension leads ready for the next time. Let the genny cool down and then refill it.

 

 

You may want to go with 6mm² for the cable runs from the gen.

 

We apparently have different perspectives of KISS.  And if you can get anyONE to understand (or bother) with it besides yourself, I'll be impressed and maybe send you something you like.

 

Cheers mate.

[Crossy]

To be brutally honest, any messing around with cables gets old very quickly, usually after the first power cut in the dark and the rain when the juice comes back just after you've moved everything.

 

Even if you have a pull-start genset you can do the simple semi-automatic arangement I describe in another thread.

• Power goes off, go out and start the generator, essential items power up, everyone is happy.
• Power comes back on the genset stops and the essential load transfers back to mains, no need to get out of bed to go and move anything.

 

It's not difficult or expensive to go full auto if you are a reasonably competent DIYer  (described in another thread), even my wife can work the full auto system (she does nothing, it's full auto).