Kieran00001 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, observer90210 said: I am tempted to say that the Chinese have already and craftily entered into a trade war much before Trump et al. Manipulating one's national currency to the rock bottom, highly subsidizing postal and cargo rates for exports and much more, are some of the many steps the Chinese government has quietly been taking behind the world's backs for more then a decade. The US has been riding on China's false economy, by buying cheap from abroad they give the American people ever increasing amounts of stuff which makes them feel increasingly wealthy, and all without the government having to increase their wages, but that could all be about to end for the American people and they be forced to buy American, and you have to pity someone who has only American products to use and even to eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said: The US has been riding on China's false economy, by buying cheap from abroad they give the American people ever increasing amounts of stuff which makes them feel increasingly wealthy, and all without the government having to increase their wages, but that could all be about to end for the American people and they be forced to buy American, and you have to pity someone who has only American products to use and even to eat. Why exactly is China's economy false? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rarebear Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, bristolboy said: Why exactly is China's economy false? Does anyone believe their reported numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Rarebear said: Does anyone believe their reported numbers? Does misreporting about an economy means that an economy false? Potemkin China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, bristolboy said: Why exactly is China's economy false? It isn't, I should have used parentheses, soz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 39 minutes ago, bristolboy said: Except of course that the currency manipulation has long since ceased. But you're right about China in that it has used blackmail trading access to the chinese market in exchange for access to western technology. So what did Trump do about ZTE? First he threatened to withdraw its access to US technology but now he's decided to save it. that sent quite a message. Maybe his way of saying thank you for the unusual speed with which China awards Ivanka her trademarks. I thought his letting ZTE of the hook was because of the loan his Indonesian interests received from China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer90210 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 55 minutes ago, Justfine said: American products are great. China makes plastic rubbish. You are very right. I love American products, like my Apple computers that have been obviously misprinted and mention Made in China. Amazing really ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, observer90210 said: You are very right. I love American products, like my Apple computers that have been obviously misprinted and mention Made in China. Amazing really ! The value added by China to Apple computers and Iphones is very slight. The most valuable components are made in the USA. Lots of other components are made in other countries like Korea. China's contribuition is largely in the assembly of said products into one machine. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegman Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Won't be long at this rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justfine Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, pegman said: Won't be long at this rate. Nonsense. These other countries need the US more than the US needs them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegman Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 28 minutes ago, Justfine said: Nonsense. These other countries need the US more than the US needs them. For what exactly? Well, maybe porn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justfine Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, pegman said: For what exactly? Well, maybe porn. For a 300m market. Nations with small populations need trade far more and can't bully a big nation. Not sure why you are thinking about porn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 11 hours ago, observer90210 said: You are very right. I love American products, like my Apple computers that have been obviously misprinted and mention Made in China. Amazing really ! Everyone loves American products, particularly the computers, that's why Americans import 93% of them from China. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegman Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 51 minutes ago, Justfine said: For a 300m market. Nations with small populations need trade far more and can't bully a big nation. Not sure why you are thinking about porn. E.U. 510m, China 1.3b American autos are garbage. Germany & Japan have excellent auto reputations. I'm done with GM. Produce, seems every day there are recalls for E. cola contamination. That does not seem to happen with Mexican lettuce. Hollywood produces nothing worth watching for anyone over 15. Smart phones are over priced and manufactured in Asia anyway. I'm done with Apple. Year after year China buys more minerals, lumber and grains. Soon they will be buying our oil and LPG. New trade deals with the E. U. and Pacific Rim nations will lessen greatly trade with Trumpland. That pretty much leaves porn to get from the Americans but of course no one pays for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justfine Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 1 minute ago, pegman said: E.U. 510m, China 1.3b American autos are garbage. Germany & Japan have excellent auto reputations. I'm done with GM. Produce, seems every day there are recalls for E. cola contamination. That does not seem to happen with Mexican lettuce. Hollywood produces nothing worth watching for anyone over 15. Smart phones are over priced and manufactured in Asia anyway. I'm done with Apple. Year after year China buys more minerals, lumber and grains. Soon they will be buying our oil and LPG. New trade deals with the E. U. and Pacific Rim nations will lessen greatly trade with Trumpland. That pretty much leaves porn to get from the Americans but of course no one pays for that. You are just posting your own personal feelings and hatred of the US. Nothing to do with Trade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegman Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, Justfine said: You are just posting your own personal feelings and hatred of the US. Nothing to do with Trade. It's my opinion on where things are going. I have no hatred for the US. Trump on the other hand....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, pegman said: It's my opinion on where things are going. I have no hatred for the US. Trump on the other hand....... I think you once claimed your family had been in America and then Canada for about 400 years, and Trump for (possibly) four years has you running scared? That must have been a pretty cushy 4 centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 16 hours ago, bristolboy said: Why exactly is China's economy false? Built on a mindboggling amount of debt! In a couple of decades they have managed to create more debt (in%) than the US, which is no slouch when it comes to debt creation. With all that money, they have built and built and built...way beyond their needs. But, as long as they keep on building, they employ workers and create "growth"...Keynesian economics at their best ! Digging holes to fill them up! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 15 hours ago, bristolboy said: The value added by China to Apple computers and Iphones is very slight. Depends how you look at it. For Apple top management, China's value is considerable. Whatever is done in China doesn't matter. What matters is that China ships the goods to the rest of the world, while invoicing an entity in the Cayman Islands, or some place similar. An iphone is sold from China at, say, 50 dollars, and the Cayman entity then sells it back to the real buyer at 450 dollars. After a few years of that game, Apple, the owner of the Cayman entity, sits on a more than 150 billion pile of cash! No salaries and taxes paid in the US and little costs in the Asian sweatshops! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted June 14, 2018 Author Share Posted June 14, 2018 Troll post removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 3 hours ago, lannarebirth said: I think you once claimed your family had been in America and then Canada for about 400 years, and Trump for (possibly) four years has you running scared? That must have been a pretty cushy 4 centuries. History shows that there is no coming back once decline has started. And the US decline started more or less with Clinton (not because of him obviously). Since then, it is has gone from bad to worse: W, O, and now the Golden Golem of Greatness! Trump will probably get 2 terms, and after him (if there is an after), don't expect to have a new Kennedy, but rather a new Attila! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Brunolem said: Built on a mindboggling amount of debt! In a couple of decades they have managed to create more debt (in%) than the US, which is no slouch when it comes to debt creation. With all that money, they have built and built and built...way beyond their needs. But, as long as they keep on building, they employ workers and create "growth"...Keynesian economics at their best ! Digging holes to fill them up! Making infrastructure for a future generation in a growing population has nothing in common with making holes and filling them in. What they do is sometimes Keynes economics, as it is in the US, both countries tried to offset the 2009 crisis with an economic stimulus, China's was bigger in relation to the their GDP than the US's 7% stimulus, China put in 14%, and they saw continued growth while the US sank, it is clear what works and it is also clear that the Chinese economy is in no way more false than the US's as they both employ the exact same tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 46 minutes ago, Brunolem said: History shows that there is no coming back once decline has started. And the US decline started more or less with Clinton (not because of him obviously). Since then, it is has gone from bad to worse: W, O, and now the Golden Golem of Greatness! Trump will probably get 2 terms, and after him (if there is an after), don't expect to have a new Kennedy, but rather a new Attila! Quote History shows that there is no coming back once decline has started. Hasn't Germany managed to recover from its decline? It is possible. Quote Trump will probably get 2 terms Bookies odds infer a 65% probability of impeachment in his first term. Quote don't expect to have a new Kennedy, History shows that the most likely follower is someone with equally strong yet opposing views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post lannarebirth Posted June 14, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2018 32 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said: History shows that the most likely follower is someone with equally strong yet opposing views. That could very well be Trump himself! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said: Making infrastructure for a future generation in a growing population has nothing in common with making holes and filling them in. the Chinese economy is in no way more false than the US's as they both employ the exact same tactics. The Chinese population is not growing, but declining as almost all other populations, out of Africa. Then, who has ever seen a generation building homes and condos for the yet unborn? As everything else, constructions decay, and I personally wouldn't buy a unit in a condo that has been sitting empty for 25 years, becoming home for life forms other than human... The US and China employ similar tactics, but not to similar ends. While China is building and saving, like the ant, the US is spending like the cicada, to feed its welfare-warfare economy. In the end, the Chinese malinvestment will prove to be still better than the American squandering... Edited June 14, 2018 by Brunolem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 59 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said: Hasn't Germany managed to recover from its decline? It is possible. Bookies odds infer a 65% probability of impeachment in his first term. History shows that the most likely follower is someone with equally strong yet opposing views. Germany certainly recovered, but only after being destroyed... Slow decay, the Roman (and American) way, is worse than rapid collapse, the German way. Bookies odds were 85% in favor of Hillary up until the last day before voting... Strong yet opposing views...not in today's America where Democrats and Republicans are working hand in hand, playing the game of who is going to be the most hawkish! Where is Trump's opposition among the elected politicians? There is none! Who are the potential Democrat candidates? Oprah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, Brunolem said: Germany certainly recovered, but only after being destroyed... Slow decay, the Roman (and American) way, is worse than rapid collapse, the German way. Bookies odds were 85% in favor of Hillary up until the last day before voting... Strong yet opposing views...not in today's America where Democrats and Republicans are working hand in hand, playing the game of who is going to be the most hawkish! Where is Trump's opposition among the elected politicians? There is none! Who are the potential Democrat candidates? Oprah? Being destroyed made it all the more harder for them to recover, if you think it makes it easier, quit your job and smash all your stuff. Bookies didn't know about the likes of Cambridge Analytica, and they do normally get it right, its really only a couple they have gotten wrong recently and both of them had foreign agents meddling with the results. Obama was hardly hand in hand with the Republicans, neither is Trump in hand with the Democrats, that is just internet conspiracy fueled tosh. Why would there be a strong opposition candidate at this point in the term? They normally come along toward the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran00001 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 28 minutes ago, Brunolem said: The Chinese population is not growing, but declining as almost all other populations, out of Africa. Then, who has ever seen a generation building homes and condos for the yet unborn? As everything else, constructions decay, and I personally wouldn't buy a unit in a condo that has been sitting empty for 25 years, becoming home for life forms other than human... The US and China employ similar tactics, but not to similar ends. While China is building and saving, like the ant, the US is spending like the cicada, to feed its welfare-warfare economy. In the end, the Chinese malinvestment will prove to be still better than the American squandering... China's population is growing at a rate of 68 million per year, what made you think it was in decline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athens Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Trade war- what about US companies like -Apple, Google, Uber, Airbnb, KFC, Mc D and more...make a lot of profit outside US but not pay any Tax in countries thy operate nor in the US...all goes in offshore account. Big companies buy goods outside US, cheaper than manufacturing in US, Production costs in US 100 USD NIcaragua 20 USD profit up 80 USD.....good leadership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said: China's population is growing at a rate of 68 million per year, what made you think it was in decline? I was a bit early..my bad... The Chinese population is still growing...crawling...at a rate of .39% ! That would represent about 5.5 million extra people this year... http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/china-population/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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