Reasons Not To Take Ms-vista

[sjaak327]

So anyone actually bought and is using Vista? Any feedback? BTW i saw that it was selling for about AUD$189. Not sure which one that is though.

I'm currently running the most expensive version (Ultimate) and in Vmware the Business version. I really like it up until now. I installed the 64 bits version, and it runs like a dream. Most surprising was that some games werer running without any problems. The only downside to installing the 64 bits version, is that my Xi-fi soundcard is not fully supported and my 3com wireless USB adapter doesn't have any 64 bits drivers, so I cannot use that one. (No real problem as this is a desktop with gigagbit NIC). But apparently 3com is refusing to pusblish 64 bit drivers, a real shame.

I partly disableb UAC, that is really annoying.

I will keep running XP on dual boot for a while, but I guess it will have to go at some time.

[Guest Reimar]

I've a feeling that the basic home version isn't going to be able to supply me those two abilities... I was told the 'Ultimate' version was the minimum to go with...

the difference between Ultimate and Home Premium is:

1. No Remote Desktop in Home Premium

2. No Remote Network in Home Premium

3. No Network Administration for Server's in Home Premium

All other is the same! Tonight I'll install the Home Premium and compare with Ultimate.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Reimar

[Valjean]

I've a feeling that the basic home version isn't going to be able to supply me those two abilities... I was told the 'Ultimate' version was the minimum to go with...

the difference between Ultimate and Home Premium is:

1. No Remote Desktop in Home Premium

2. No Remote Network in Home Premium

3. No Network Administration for Server's in Home Premium

All other is the same! Tonight I'll install the Home Premium and compare with Ultimate.

Also there is Bitlocker and the PC Backup and Restore in Ultimate.

[danone]

i'd jump on vista if i had a windows machine, but no need over here at mac where we soon get leopard, another years ahead of windoze.

[Valjean]

I would add that if you go to microsoft.com/vista -> "Choose an edition" you'll get an easy chart of everything.

[Wolfie]

Thanks for the feedback guys, as i said i hadn't researched the differences yet. Some useful hints on where to look as well as some useful comments from the Vista enabled crowd, thanks!

[nikster]

Microsoft can't afford to loose that much of corporate customers which they will if they not provide the VLK! Many administrators already try to push thems employers to Linux and if MS not step back a lot will move!

I've been hearing these empty threats for 15 years and it's just not going to happen. It costs more to retrain one person to use Linux than to buy several Windows software licences.

Plus, although open source may be "free", the support certainly isn't.

Maybe it just takes 16 years?

It's true that Linux enthusiasts have pronounced Linux "end-user-ready" since the dawn of time. But that doesn't mean it won't come true eventually. It was definitely not the last time I checked, a little more than a year ago. But I don't see why somebody wouldn't at some point get it together and produce an easy to use version.

I think large government organizations are plain stupid if they don't migrate to Linux. They have the size and capacity to plan ahead 10 years, and there the value equation is very clearly pro Linux. MS can't compete with free.

Support is not an issue - these computers are not for games. They have 10 apps on them, and users need to be able to start these 10 apps and nothing else. That's 10 buttons for you. Setup is done by IT dept., same for all machines or network boot etc.

Any organization with over 10,000 users can use OpenOffice, Evolution Mail, Firefox, and their own custom web-based apps and save loads of money over the years. Needs a few Linux admins, but IT is not terribly worse than Windows.

The main reason that most companies can't do this right now is the DOC, PPT, XLS and other proprietary MS formats that everyone got suckered into. If your customer sends you a PPT, then a 90% correct rendering simply isn't good enough - you need 100%, can't take any chances. The windows+orifice license is worth that last 10%, or even 1% when it comes down to it.

But government is different - they can just say they accept PDF only and everyone has to live with it. For that reason, governments can switch to Linux today, and more and more do. A neat side-effect is that the valuable office workers spend less time on non-work purposes on their machines.

Once government institutions around the world make the switch and, as a result, push open standards for all kinds of documents - others will follow. People are slowly waking up to the fact that open document standards would benefit everyone while closed ones only benefit the rights holders of said standard.

Basic economics are working against Microsoft here...

[katom]

I'm not going to move to vista because:

1. I dont need the flik flak poping windows in the vista.

2. I just use internet,office docs,and chats. xp handle with it just fine.

3. Listen music..my xp can do that.

4. All the games works very good on my xp.

5. Expensive.

6. "dont fix what's already working" (And very well indeed.).

7. I am sure that my opiinion will change in about 4 years when microsoft corperation will FORCE / RAPE us to do it as the drivers/patchs or other b$%^ sh%$ things will just wont work with the xp.

cheers.

[Crushdepth]

I'm going to take Vista because I like to learn about new and shiny things. However, it will be a dual boot setup with Ubuntu :-)

In this day and age, you don' need no favourite OS. If I can find a legit way to stick a Mac OS on my machine at the same time it will end up as a triple boot setup and I'll play with that too.

[cdnvic]

In this day and age, you don' need no favourite OS. If I can find a legit way to stick a Mac OS on my machine at the same time it will end up as a triple boot setup and I'll play with that too.

Ubuntu rocks

You may want to meet these people:

http://www.osx86project.org/

[Valjean]

Microsoft can't afford to loose that much of corporate customers which they will if they not provide the VLK! Many administrators already try to push thems employers to Linux and if MS not step back a lot will move!

I've been hearing these empty threats for 15 years and it's just not going to happen. It costs more to retrain one person to use Linux than to buy several Windows software licences.

Plus, although open source may be "free", the support certainly isn't.

Maybe it just takes 16 years?

It's true that Linux enthusiasts have pronounced Linux "end-user-ready" since the dawn of time. But that doesn't mean it won't come true eventually. It was definitely not the last time I checked, a little more than a year ago. But I don't see why somebody wouldn't at some point get it together and produce an easy to use version.

I think large government organizations are plain stupid if they don't migrate to Linux. They have the size and capacity to plan ahead 10 years, and there the value equation is very clearly pro Linux. MS can't compete with free.

Support is not an issue - these computers are not for games. They have 10 apps on them, and users need to be able to start these 10 apps and nothing else. That's 10 buttons for you. Setup is done by IT dept., same for all machines or network boot etc.

Any organization with over 10,000 users can use OpenOffice, Evolution Mail, Firefox, and their own custom web-based apps and save loads of money over the years. Needs a few Linux admins, but IT is not terribly worse than Windows.

The main reason that most companies can't do this right now is the DOC, PPT, XLS and other proprietary MS formats that everyone got suckered into. If your customer sends you a PPT, then a 90% correct rendering simply isn't good enough - you need 100%, can't take any chances. The windows+orifice license is worth that last 10%, or even 1% when it comes down to it.

But government is different - they can just say they accept PDF only and everyone has to live with it. For that reason, governments can switch to Linux today, and more and more do. A neat side-effect is that the valuable office workers spend less time on non-work purposes on their machines.

Once government institutions around the world make the switch and, as a result, push open standards for all kinds of documents - others will follow. People are slowly waking up to the fact that open document standards would benefit everyone while closed ones only benefit the rights holders of said standard.

Basic economics are working against Microsoft here...

"Free" is a really misunderstood concept when it comes to Open Source. I don't have a religious point of view on either side of this but it is good to have some rational look at the facts. First a lot of Linux is not free - it's Red Hat and others, it cost money it's just a different business model.

In a typical IT environment software is about 8% to 10% of the total cost, hardware is 10% - 15% and the rest - upwards of 80% is the cost to support and maintain the systems and infrastructure. Even if software is free it doesn't address where the big cost lie. Most companies do understand this and make decisions on Total Cost of Ownership, not the cost of acquisition. That is why Microsoft continues to do well in corp IT centers and the server business is growing very well for them - go look at their last earnings report. IT makes rational decisions most times, they look at TOC and other factors and make a business decision.

There is also always a lot of confusion between the difference on Open Standards and Open Source. To imply they are somehow one and the same, or that the move to Open Source will ergo drive Open Standards is wrong. It’s worth doing some homework and understand how they are different.

In terms of giving users a dumbed down experience an work opportunity. This is classic network computer thinking and it’s IMHO sooooo 1990. It’s 2007, it’s a flat world, it moving fast, it’s competitive, and the companies that survive and compete want to give their people the best tool, the best information and the best way to connect to their trading partners and customers. Companies that treat their workers like a bunch of factory worker children, (just give them 10 buttons because they are too stupid to understand or be responsible with more) aren’t going to be able to compete with the best in the world.

There was an interesting blog I was reading from Miguel de Icaza about the ODF (open standard doc format).

tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Jan-30.html - again I’m not a zealot on either side but here’s a leader in the open source community taking a reasoned look at things.

[nikster]

In this day and age, you don' need no favourite OS. If I can find a legit way to stick a Mac OS on my machine at the same time it will end up as a triple boot setup and I'll play with that too.

Ubuntu rocks

I am gonna take your word for it and try it right now. The download certainly is exactly what I want: A CD that I can run from - e.g. try and see if the OS sees all my hardware - and use as an installer at the same time. Xcellent.

The even have a thai mirror for reasonably fast downloads

[richard10365]

I think a good quality product wouldn't have so many problems that a person has to work around to get it to work properly. I use to like Microsoft but I think they are more into making money than putting out a quality product.

I can understand why some people choose pirated products over authentic copies of software.

MS Windows is like a software drug. Microsoft got everyone hooked with the original version of Windows many years ago. As the years passed by, the price went up along with the problems associated with the software.

Now Windows is the only operating system that you know how to work. You don't have time to learn how operating systems from open source software works. You also don't have the money to purchase the upgrades from Microsoft that promise to keep up with existing technology.

Frustrated, angry and feeling betrayed by Microsoft, computer operators go to places like Pantip Plaza and purchase cheap working versions of Microsoft's pride and glory.

Som nam nah.

Edited February 2, 2007 by richard10365

[roblin]

i only use xp in coherent mode in osx for playing poker. maybe i will run vista from bootcamp for playing some crysis in the future, who knows. really dont se why people bother with windows for everyday life tasks.

[cdnvic]

Frustrated, angry and feeling betrayed by Microsoft, computer operators go to places like Pantip Plaza and purchase cheap working versions of Microsoft's pride and glory.

Som nam nah.

More often than not it's just that someone wants something for free. If they're too lazy to learn Linux or too cheap to buy Mac it's no excuse for stealing. If you are frustrated with Nissan you buy a Toyota, not steal a Nissan.

[richard10365]

Frustrated, angry and feeling betrayed by Microsoft, computer operators go to places like Pantip Plaza and purchase cheap working versions of Microsoft's pride and glory.

Som nam nah.

More often than not it's just that someone wants something for free. If they're too lazy to learn Linux or too cheap to buy Mac it's no excuse for stealing. If you are frustrated with Nissan you buy a Toyota, not steal a Nissan.

I'm not sure you can compare cars in this case to MS Windows. There are many cars to choose from but not many operating systems to pick. Also, normally, cars don't get recalled over and over for upgrades before the next years model comes out.

I have tried to install Linux and did not find it very easy to learn. I also didn't see all the features that I had come to depend on with MS Windows.

Thats why I refer to MS Windows like a drug. When people have a dependence on a drug and they don't get their drug, often they result to stealing to support their drug habit. Since stealing is wrong, the laws are established to punish the people stealing. Usually, the dope pusher gets punished too when he is caught.

In Microsoft's case, they are regarded as the victim. So Microsoft is like a dope pusher that gets a free reign to push their faulty product on people who are already dependent on it's product.

Microsoft is way over priced for the service it provides. Since many well off people are dependent on it already, they make a profit. If they were smart, they would cut their loss and price the software to more reasonable prices to entice the ones stealing it to think about buying it. There are more people stealing their product who would probably buy the product is it had a reasonable price tag. I know I would.

I have no sympathy for Microsoft and all the money they are losing from people who steal their product.

Edited February 3, 2007 by richard10365

[cdnvic]

I had my 6year old nephew using kubuntu linux in an hour. It ain't rocket science.

Too bad he's so far away, he could give you some pointers.

Edited February 3, 2007 by cdnvic

[david96]

What will happen to XP now? I am in the market for a new laptop (in aust).All the laptops are being supplied with Vista preloaded. Will there be an option?

[richard10365]

I had my 6year old nephew using kubuntu linux in an hour. It ain't rocket science.

Too bad he's so far away, he could give you some pointers.

I can put my 9 month old son behind the wheel of the car and let him sound the horn, that doesn't mean he can drive it.

If it was so user friendly more people would use it.

I doubt your 6 year old nephew could teach anyone anything.

Edited February 3, 2007 by richard10365

[cdnvic]

What will happen to XP now? I am in the market for a new laptop (in aust).All the laptops are being supplied with Vista preloaded. Will there be an option?

Closest you will get after XP stock runs out will be the Vista home basic. It runs ok on slower computers.

[cdnvic]

I doubt your 6 year old nephew could teach anyone anything.

He's still able to use it six months later so he could probably teach you something as basic as Kubuntu

[richard10365]

I doubt your 6 year old nephew could teach anyone anything.

He's still able to use it six months later so he could probably teach you something as basic as Kubuntu

Yea....sure he can.