Problem with condo purchase - funds already in Thailand!!

[bizboi]

I dont know if this has been covered before. im sure its not the first time its happened but I cant find a suitable thread on this topic so here goes

 

I worked in thailand in a fairly well paid job from 2010 to 2015, after that i moved to work in China. During that time and with payments into my Thai bank I have saved 2 million baht in a Kasinkorn bank account and want to use it to purchase a condo in BKK. i should mention my wife of 4 years is Thai and is in china with me.

 

We have found a condo we want to purchase for 2 million baht and now the problem is that we are told that because i am not a thai resident with a work permit but basically count as a tourist even though im married to a Thai. I have to show the money coming into the country.  I have to therefore take a hit of about 100,000 baht in fees and exchange rates to transfer it OUT and then back in from my UK TSB bank.

 

The alternative is to put it in my wifes name and she will be the one on the deed although we will both have a land registry document.

 

So do i take the 100,000 baht hit, do i put it in my wife's name or IS THERE ANOTHER WAY that i can use my own money to buy my own condo??

 

Your thoughts??

[happylarry]

Who told you this?

The agent selling the condo, the bank or a lawyer???

In Thailand people make things up just to make themselves seem important or even to make things difficult for farangs. Please note that I do not know whether it is true or not but just wondered where this info came from, as you didnt say.

Indeed have you checked it out with a second source before coming on here?

HL

[Peterw42]

Maybe you have some unique circumstances but fees, exchange etc on 2 million baht, going out and back in,  would be nowhere near 100,000 baht, if the exchange rate doesn't vary wildly while the money goes out and back in, there wont be any significant loss in exchange rate. If you send 40 baht to the UK you will get 1 pound, send 1 pound back will get you 40 baht. Some losses and fees but probably more like 5,000 baht.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Peterw42

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, happylarry said:

Who told you this?

The agent selling the condo, the bank or a lawyer???

In Thailand people make things up just to make themselves seem important or even to make things difficult for farangs. Please note that I do not know whether it is true or not but just wondered where this info came from, as you didnt say.

Indeed have you checked it out with a second source before coming on here?

HL

The OP is correct, and its widely known,  for a foreigner to own a condo the money needs to come from outside Thailand. In the OPs case he will need to send it out and back in.

[blackcab]

The money has to come into Thailand as a foreign currency and then get exchanged to Baht.

 

I suggest you talk to the Head Office of your bank about doing and Out and In. It's basically a computer exercise where they send the funds out to one of their overseas branches, then straight back in again.

 

The exchange rate will be discussed first so you will know the total cost.

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

The OP is correct, and its widely known,  for a foreigner to own a condo the money needs to come from outside Thailand. In the OPs case he will need to send it out and back in.

Yep, that was I had to do.

 

 

[Peterw42]

15 minutes ago, blackcab said:

The money has to come into Thailand as a foreign currency and then get exchanged to Baht.

 

I suggest you talk to the Head Office of your bank about doing and Out and In. It's basically a computer exercise where they send the funds out to one of their overseas branches, then straight back in again.

 

The exchange rate will be discussed first so you will know the total cost.

Would there be any significant cost/loss, (5%) as the OP is quoting ?

[Delight]

 Given that the Thai funds have to leave your bank account -and then return to the same account-my approach would be to talk with the bank manager for advice.

 

Given that you simply want acertificate -a certificate that the manager controls -I am sure that you could come to some 'arrangement'.

My guess that this 'arrangement' would cost you max 10,000 Baht

 

[bizboi]

45 minutes ago, happylarry said:

Who told you this?

The agent selling the condo, the bank or a lawyer???

In Thailand people make things up just to make themselves seem important or even to make things difficult for farangs. Please note that I do not know whether it is true or not but just wondered where this info came from, as you didnt say.

Indeed have you checked it out with a second source before coming on here?

HL

The information was from the agent - my wife confirmed the information from the Thai land registry website

[bizboi]

37 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Yep, that was I had to do.

 

 

did you send it in and out? if so was it expensive and did it take long?

[Bluespunk]

Just now, bizboi said:

did you send it in and out? if so was it expensive and did it take long?

I had most of the money sent in from my UK account.

 

I'd had some money from a pension policy I'd cashed in to purchase my condo sent to my Thai account.

 

Had to send that out and then back again.

 

Wasn't anywhere near a 100, 000 baht fee to do so though.

[Briggsy]

57 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Maybe you have some unique circumstances but fees, exchange etc on 2 million baht, going out and back in,  would be nowhere near 100,000 baht, if the exchange rate doesn't vary wildly while the money goes out and back in, there wont be any significant loss in exchange rate. If you send 40 baht to the UK you will get 1 pound, send 1 pound back will get you 40 baht. Some losses and fees but probably more like 5,000 baht.

Your workings are wildly wrong.

 

Transferring bank to bank, UK to Thailand, in sterling so it is the cheapest way, will lose you between 1.5 and 2% on 2 million baht.

 

The OP is correct. The total loss will be around 3.5%, around 70,000 Baht. I can provide the calculation. I assume you plucked that 5000 Baht from where the sun don't shine.

[bizboi]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I had most of the money sent in from my UK account.

 

I'd had some money from a pension policy I'd cashed in to purchase my condo sent to my Thai account.

 

Had to send that out and then back again.

 

Wasn't anywhere near a 100, 000 baht fee to do so though.

the 100,000 was as another poster said 3.5% - my wife said it was 70,000 but i also think there would be fees from both banks for the in and from both banks for the out. I allowed 30,000 baht for those four fees.

Edited June 12, 2018 by bizboi

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Your workings are wildly wrong.

 

Transferring bank to bank, UK to Thailand, in sterling so it is the cheapest way, will lose you between 1.5 and 2% on 2 million baht.

 

The OP is correct. The total loss will be around 3.5%, around 70,000 Baht. I can provide the calculation. I assume you plucked that 5000 Baht from where the sun don't shine.

I would like to see the calculation as I cant see how it incurs a loss ,other than fees, X amount of baht equals X amount Pounds dependant on the days exchange rate. I have sent $10,000 from Australia to Thailand, had a change of circumstances and sent it back, ended up with $9,900 back in my account, most of that was fees, no significant exchange loss.

[mekko]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Maybe you have some unique circumstances but fees, exchange etc on 2 million baht, going out and back in,  would be nowhere near 100,000 baht, if the exchange rate doesn't vary wildly while the money goes out and back in, there wont be any significant loss in exchange rate. If you send 40 baht to the UK you will get 1 pound, send 1 pound back will get you 40 baht. Some losses and fees but probably more like 5,000 baht.

Terrible financial advice. In any market there is a spread reagardless of any fees, the more liquid the tighter the spread, but as a retail customer the spread will be amplified, it doesn't matter if you're financial providers advertises 0% commission, no added markup, true xe.com rates, or even if they claim interbank rate there are two rates associated for a pair for different sides of the buy and sell, or if you use a new fintech startup it's all the same, you can't change back and forth with no loss even if the price doesn't move. If you take a pair in your case THB/GBP and says its 0.023, you will find that GBP/THB is not the inverse (the other side doesn't equal 1/0.023).  

 

For example commission free bangkok bank. Today 2million baht at bangkok bank will get you 45,850.52 GBP. If you went for sh*t and turned right back in you would be get 1,921,595.29. How to lose 88,400 in one shopping trip, that without any paying in charges or other fees.  Weather the spread is tighter at Moneyrich, or whatever I dont know, but 100,000 seems a reasonable loss budget given the additional fees and roundtrip latency of a few days. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by mekko

[bizboi]

Whilst i appreciate that the amount of the fees is an on topic point =- what i really want to know is does anyone know another way of doing this - if i had a photocopy of my work permit from 2011 to 2015 and a bank statement showing the money was legitimately earned in thailand would it make a difference - would a trip with my wife to talk to the appropriate govt department yield any results? A i said i dont fit into the tourist who’s only been on holiday or the worker with a work permit category that they allow for - im an ex worker with a work permit who is married to a thai and still has savings there because he will return in 5 or 6 years.

[mekko]

7 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I would like to see the calculation as I cant see how it incurs a loss ,other than fees, X amount of baht equals X amount Pounds dependant on the days exchange rate. I have sent $10,000 from Australia to Thailand, had a change of circumstances and sent it back, ended up with $9,900 back in my account, most of that was fees, no significant exchange loss.

Because other than fees, there are two rates, the concept of midpoint rate is virtual, it's the mid point between the buy and sell but doesn't exist per se.  Its difficult to say exactly how you were able to close out with only 1% loss, but I imagine the markets moved in your favor so that inverse was almost (1/ (side X/Y)) at the time you moved the money back. 

[bizboi]

54 minutes ago, Delight said:

 Given that the Thai funds have to leave your bank account -and then return to the same account-my approach would be to talk with the bank manager for advice.

 

Given that you simply want acertificate -a certificate that the manager controls -I am sure that you could come to some 'arrangement'.

My guess that this 'arrangement' would cost you max 10,000 Baht

 

is this called FX  by the banks - to move the money out then back in?

Edited June 12, 2018 by bizboi

[JonnyF]

I had a similar issue to the OP,  wanted to use money from my Thai salary for a condo and then found out about this rule.

 

However, I was told that I was able to buy the condo with funds earned here. The only catch was that if/when I sold it, I would be unable to send funds back out again because I didn't have the certificate from the banks to show the funds coming into Thailand. As a foreigner working here you can send a % of you salary home every year but once you are no longer working I was told it is more difficult to do that i.e. you can't easily send money home in 10 years time that you earned last year, especially if you are no longer working on a B visa with work permit etc.

 

I wanted the option to send the money back in the future but as the pound was sliding I chose not to send the money back immediately and brought over the same amount again at 54.6 THB to the pound and got the certificate. Fortunately the pound did in fact start to tank fairly soon after that so I sent a portion of the total amount back to the UK over the next 18 months and actually made money out of the rule, but that was 50% luck and 50% judgement, a lucky guess. So just check the rule, if you're not too worried about sending the cash back later you might be able to buy it (but personally I'd recommend getting the certificate).

[Peterw42]

24 minutes ago, mekko said:

Because other than fees, there are two rates, the concept of midpoint rate is virtual, it's the mid point between the buy and sell but doesn't exist per se.  Its difficult to say exactly how you were able to close out with only 1% loss, but I imagine the markets moved in your favor so that inverse was almost (1/ (side X/Y)) at the time you moved the money back. 

Thanks for the explanation, in hindsight I think I benefited from a change in rates over the couple of days I had the money in Thailand.

[moontang]

I show a turn around with rates not moving would cost you 39,159.55 plus 300 to send, what your bank charges to receive, then send, then 500 to receive...this with Bangkok Bank TT.  So about 41,500....

 

I just did a similar excercise..but I sent home at 31.38 and got 31.89 coming back...got lucky, but the THB frequently weakens in April and May.  

 

As mentioned, the FET is just a typed letter with a stamp....talk to a branch manager...or go to the main branch...tell them you used to work...I can't see them passing up an opportunity like that...

 

Another thing is the myth involved with sending money out....under 10,000 USD no questions asked, and takes six hours if done in the afternoon.  No WP......don't know why so many have to sensationalize.

[Monomial]

If anyone runs into roadblocks in this situation, a relatively painless way to solve this problem is as follows:

 

Take out 2 million baht in cash

Fly to Phnom Penh. Declare the cash to customs. Have your records ready to show the source of the funds. (i.e. a bank statement)

Get an E visa to Cambodia at the airport

Pick up a local prepaid SIM card at PNX so you have a local number

Extend the E visa to a 6 month EG using an agent in Cambodia

Find anyone willing to write you a letter of residence. You don't actually have to stay there, just make an agreement that says you will long enough to open a bank account.

Open a USD bank account at ABA in Cambodia and deposit your money.

Wire the money back into Thailand.

 

You are legally allowed to take out 2 million baht at a time to a border country from Thailand.

 

You can do all of this in 2 days with an overnight stay in Phnom Penh. The exchange rate you will get going from THB->USD->THB is the cheapest you are going to get. The most expensive part will be the 6 month EG in Phnom Penh (around $160) plus about $100 for the flight. You may have to offer some compensation to get someone to write you a letter of residence. It is best to arrange this on a forum before you arrive.

 

It is a small PITA, but it complies with all the rules and will resolve any issue you have.

 

 

[Monomial]

3 minutes ago, moontang said:

Another thing is the myth involved with sending money out....under 10,000 USD no questions asked, and takes six hours if done in the afternoon.  No WP......don't know why so many have to sensationalize. 

 

Because if you don't have a work permit, most branches will not allow you to do this. Don't know how you got so lucky that you say "no questions asked." Believe me....for everyone but you apparently, there are many questions, and an awful lot of "can not's" that come back.

[moontang]

with 1000000 in deposits, you are a preferred customer at CIMB..which offers a lot of seamless stuff in ASEAN....a better way to do it in a neighboring country.

[moontang]

4 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

Because if you don't have a work permit, most branches will not allow you to do this. Don't know how you got so lucky that you say "no questions asked." Believe me....for everyone but you apparently, there are many questions, and an awful lot of "can not's" that come back.

there is a huge difference in simply not having a WP and trying to do stuff with only a TV.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

The OP is correct, and its widely known,  for a foreigner to own a condo the money needs to come from outside Thailand. In the OPs case he will need to send it out and back in.

Further (and please note

 

1 hour ago, Briggsy said:

Your workings are wildly wrong.

 

Transferring bank to bank, UK to Thailand, in sterling so it is the cheapest way, will lose you between 1.5 and 2% on 2 million baht.

 

The OP is correct. The total loss will be around 3.5%, around 70,000 Baht. I can provide the calculation. I assume you plucked that 5000 Baht from where the sun don't shine.

 

There is another possibility. Some years back BBL offered a service for this service, they (in book entries) send the funds to their office in Singapore then BBL Singapore send it back. All done quickly but I forget what currency the money must be in when it arrives back in Thailand.

 

I recall the contacting BBL here was a waste of time, they didn't understand what was being discussed nor an answer.

 

However the BBL Singapore staff did understand and were able to help. It's of course not free but unless the fees have changed the BBL route much cheaper than costs of full transfer back to UK, then full transfer back to LOS. 

 

Probably worth a call to BBL Singapore.

 

 

[Monomial]

19 minutes ago, moontang said:

there is a huge difference in simply not having a WP and trying to do stuff with only a TV.

 

Non-B, marriage extension, out of work for 18 months. Trying to send only $1000 USD to my brother in the states. "Can not" was the answer at all 5 branches I tried where I have accounts. Finally had to go Western Union and get screwed.

 

Your apparent experience is the exception, not the rule.

 

No, I am not a preferred customer at CIMB, so I didn't try there.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Monomial

[manarak]

2 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Your workings are wildly wrong.

 

Transferring bank to bank, UK to Thailand, in sterling so it is the cheapest way, will lose you between 1.5 and 2% on 2 million baht.

 

The OP is correct. The total loss will be around 3.5%, around 70,000 Baht. I can provide the calculation. I assume you plucked that 5000 Baht from where the sun don't shine.

I advise you to change banks, because you are being grossly overcharged.

 

[bizboi]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

I had a similar issue to the OP,  wanted to use money from my Thai salary for a condo and then found out about this rule.

 

However, I was told that I was able to buy the condo with funds earned here. The only catch was that if/when I sold it, I would be unable to send funds back out again because I didn't have the certificate from the banks to show the funds coming into Thailand. As a foreigner working here you can send a % of you salary home every year but once you are no longer working I was told it is more difficult to do that i.e. you can't easily send money home in 10 years time that you earned last year, especially if you are no longer working on a B visa with work permit etc.

 

I wanted the option to send the money back in the future but as the pound was sliding I chose not to send the money back immediately and brought over the same amount again at 54.6 THB to the pound and got the certificate. Fortunately the pound did in fact start to tank fairly soon after that so I sent a portion of the total amount back to the UK over the next 18 months and actually made money out of the rule, but that was 50% luck and 50% judgement, a lucky guess. So just check the rule, if you're not too worried about sending the cash back later you might be able to buy it (but personally I'd recommend getting the certificate).

thats useful so if i speak to KBank they will look at my account and issue a certificate? you see Ive been out of Thailand since 2015 and have sent back money from China. I mean the thing is you need a work permit to open a bank account so they KNOW Ive been working there!!

[xylophone]

53 minutes ago, Monomial said:

Because if you don't have a work permit, most branches will not allow you to do this

Have never had a work permit and have sent 4 million baht overseas, plus other amounts from time to time.