Thais and English: Stop the rote learning, be brave to speak, get better jobs and be happy!

[mok199]

6 minutes ago, Aupee said:

Of course all the posters here can speak perfect Thai and try daily to improve their ability to speak Thai.

ok  27 posts...what is your point !! or are you just trolling to gather post numbers...here comes number 28,29 30  dude don't make ridiculous posts

Edited June 15, 2018 by mok199
speliings

[car720]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Children should be taught how to learn, investigate and think and not just memorise  facts that may help them to pass tests. 

 

The most important  lesson being, if you aren’t making mistakes, you’re not trying hard enough. 

 

 

Amen.  

In Thailand many just don't want to learn which is the main problem but also they are still teaching the antiquated Grammar Translation Technique instead of doing communicative language training.

Throughout Asia too much emphasis is placed on passing tests.

[BobbyL]

8 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

He did not say they should not use grammar, he said they should drop the grammar lessons.  Did you learn any of the grammatical rules you follow from grammar lessons or did you pick them up along the way by using the language? 

That is exactly the crux of it. 

 

You learn a language through speaking and listening, ideally at a young age. You could be fluent in a language and not know any of the grammar or punctuation when it comes to reading or writing. 

[mok199]

4 minutes ago, car720 said:

Amen.  

In Thailand many just don't want to learn which is the main problem but also they are still teaching the antiquated Grammar Translation Technique instead of doing communicative language training.

Throughout Asia too much emphasis is placed on passing tests.

yes children must learn to think outside the ''thai box','sadly that is disgouraged ...so we rechip our 4 yr old and reprogram him occasionally....'Born to be riled''

[marko kok prong]

But why bother did the great leader himself not proclaim in 20 years the whole world would be speaking Thai,maybe he meant all of Thailand.

  On another note my friend who is English was looking at his daughters school book's learning English,appalled he went to the school to speak with the teacher,in her broken pidgin English she told him he was wrong and did not know what he was talking about,he informed her he was English and it was his native language starting to feel she was loosing face she rushed off to a meeting!

[blazes]

30 minutes ago, missoura said:

My first job in Thailand was teaching at a well-known Bangkok university. There was a fairly large Thai staff that also taught English to the students. However, there was only about 3-4 professors who could actually carry on a conversation with me.

 

All the meetings were in Thai as well as breaks and lunch time. Needless to say, the majority of these teachers would not have passed high school English 101.

 

But yet most of the students passed their English courses with flying colors…

nuff said?

[SpeakeasyThai]

No matter how good a Thai can ever be at speaking Engish they will never understand the meaning of the world 'responsible'.

[seancbk]

2 hours ago, mok199 said:

i have lived here 20 years,and have never once (not one time) heard thais outside of a school setting ,speaking English in an attempt (in a safe enviorment of classmates) to better themselves. I have on numerous occasions asked '' why don't you and your freinds try "" the answer is always the same ,even their thai parents say '' shy''...in my opinion it is laziness and a lack of motivation..shy is the easy excuse

 

In 20 years you've not met a Thai was went to school in the UK, Australia or the US?   You've never interacted with a Thai who works in a five star hotel?

What sort of life do you lead where in 20 years of living in Thailand you've not met a Thai who can speak English extremely well??



 

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, z42 said:

Being able to speak is 1 thing. However conveying the knowledge in English to a Thai with very limited (if any) retained knowledge of English is very bloody difficult.

You multiply that by 40 times and add in a few Thais who have some knowledge and you have a typical Thai English class.

 

While the kid in the video is a highly competent speaker it is unknown what his other English skills are like. I am personally privileged to work with some kids who possess equally impressive speaking skill, however their other skills are much less polished.

 

The main flaw with the Thai system in its present form is that it targets only 1 skill area primarily, reading.

The 3 other main skills (listening, speaking, writing) are simply not activated (or even targeted) anywhere near often enough.

 

As a start, a focus should be placed on developing sub-functional English that can be utilized readily in a wide range of situational conversation. This can be practiced and honed in direct conversation or written interaction.

 

And it is the interaction that is a chief cause of slower development, almost nowhere outside of big tourist cities will Thai students ever get a real chance to practice talking to foreigners very often.

 

Could go on, but that is my 2 cents on this issue

Can I add that in some schools the students are not allowed to ask questions. It was explained to me, by a Thai teacher, that if the student asked a question and the teacher didn't know the answer then they, the teacher, would lose face.

When I suggested the the teacher could answer 'I'm not sure but I will find out for you and tell you in the next class,' I got the same 'would lose face.'

[Surasak]

3 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

They need to forget the boring and unnecessary grammar lessons, even I don't know what half of it means.

Quite agree. Verbs, adverbs, nouns and pronouns are a foreign language to me. I'm glad I grew up knowing to put the words in their correct order, with a little help from my friends.

[KiwiKiwi]

A good message overall, but it's disappointing to read his body language and know from it that he's parroting what someone else has said. He's gathering kudos.

 

What he says other people should do is not what he did.

 

 

[KiwiKiwi]

18 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Can I add that in some schools the students are not allowed to ask questions. It was explained to me, by a Thai teacher, that if the student asked a question and the teacher didn't know the answer then they, the teacher, would lose face.

When I suggested the the teacher could answer 'I'm not sure but I will find out for you and tell you in the next class,' I got the same 'would lose face.'

 

And there it is. Face. The Thai problem (that they inherited from the Chinese).

[Dustdevil]

2 hours ago, rkidlad said:

My missus has always been attracted to 'farangs. Yes, white men. As a child, she would watch Hollywood movies, listen to Britpop and had about a hundred crushes. Because she liked the culture so much, she asked her parents if she could attend English lessons. She did stuff in her free time, asked her teachers what things meant in movies and music, etc. Her English is awesome, but she basically learnt off her own back. You can pretty much learn anything if you really want to. 

 

Now, with her job and travel and the circles she's in, she can't imagine not being able to speak English. She knows how it opens doors, creates connections and opens the mind. She knows that if she couldn't speak English her life would be very different. Some people say they don't need to know English - they're happy. Great. My missus feels her life wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting if she couldn't speak English. 

 

As the Korean director of 'Okja' put into his movie, "Try learning English. It opens doors". It was apparently a joke mocking the mindset that English language speakers think they're supreme. Well, it's the world's language. Maybe one day it will be Chinese. But for now it's English. Learn the world's language or don't. Up to you. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking you should not learn it because of something as ridiculous as nationalism. 

Chinese is way too complex and difficult to become the world's second language. For some, yes, but not the world. If you're a business exec do you have time to learn the 10,000 or more characters that would be required to read commercial documentation and financial news? And the four tones  needed for speech, besides?

Edited June 15, 2018 by Dustdevil

[rkidlad]

2 minutes ago, Dustdevil said:

Chinese is way too complex and difficult to become the world's second language. For some, yes, but not the world. If you're a business exec do you have time to learn the 10,000 or more characters that would be required to read commercial documentation and financial news? And the four tones  needed for speech, besides?

English is the language of Shakespeare. It's nuanced and rich. Chinese, much like Thai, would be too simple and direct. Language is also culture. I wanna speak a language where I can express myself in a million different ways. There is a good reason other than the Americans using English for it to be so widely used. 

[KiwiKiwi]

21 minutes ago, Surasak said:

Quite agree. Verbs, adverbs, nouns and pronouns are a foreign language to me. I'm glad I grew up knowing to put the words in their correct order, with a little help from my friends.

 

All of those things are important, indeed, I do not doubt for a moment that you use all of them every day. Mostly, we learn language skills from our parents, then out teachers, then our friends and then other authority figures, so your level of skill will largely epend upon your social and educational environment (sans English).

 

English education is there to improve communication using standard and accepted language structure - it's quicker than learning by trial and error, and it requires less IQ to do a good job.

 

What you get without a good education in language is the inconsistent and imprecise basket of faeces they call Thai.

 

Lingua Franca my foot.

 

[Eligius]

3 hours ago, rkidlad said:

My missus has always been attracted to 'farangs. Yes, white men. As a child, she would watch Hollywood movies, listen to Britpop and had about a hundred crushes. Because she liked the culture so much, she asked her parents if she could attend English lessons. She did stuff in her free time, asked her teachers what things meant in movies and music, etc. Her English is awesome, but she basically learnt off her own back. You can pretty much learn anything if you really want to. 

 

Now, with her job and travel and the circles she's in, she can't imagine not being able to speak English. She knows how it opens doors, creates connections and opens the mind. She knows that if she couldn't speak English her life would be very different. Some people say they don't need to know English - they're happy. Great. My missus feels her life wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting if she couldn't speak English. 

 

As the Korean director of 'Okja' put into his movie, "Try learning English. It opens doors". It was apparently a joke mocking the mindset that English language speakers think they're supreme. Well, it's the world's language. Maybe one day it will be Chinese. But for now it's English. Learn the world's language or don't. Up to you. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking you should not learn it because of something as ridiculous as nationalism. 

Excellent post.

 

I think for Thais one of the supreme advantages of learning to read advanced English is that they will then have access to masses of censored information (censored in Thailand) which reveals the unsavoury truth about certain key aspects of their nation. They will be amazed at how they have been lied to all their lives! They might even get angry - and demand change.

 

And that is precisely why the Powers That Be here do everything possible to ensure that the vast bulk of Thais NEVER learn adequate English!

[Dustdevil]

7 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

English is the language of Shakespeare. It's nuanced and rich. Chinese, much like Thai, would be too simple and direct. Language is also culture. I wanna speak a language where I can express myself in a million different ways. There is a good reason other than the Americans using English for it to be so widely used. 

I agree. The thousands of characters in Chinese make the learning of it more difficult than English. If you're, say, a Saudi learning English,  once you know the 26 letters and some basic grammar and lexicon, you can build on that and learn the nuances much quicker than with Chinese.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Dustdevil

[KiwiKiwi]

29 minutes ago, Dustdevil said:

I agree. The thousands of characters in Chinese make the learning of it more difficult than English. If you're, say, a Saudi learning English,  once you know the 26 letters and some basic grammar and lexicon, you can build on that and learn the nuances much quicker than with Chinese.

 

I always believed (because I was always told) that Chinese if the hardest language to learn, followed by English, though it's also true that Thais cannot achieve what the average 4-year-old in UK can achieve, which is an interesting observation (the same applies in reverse too, My Thai iasn't as fluent as the average pre-pubescent Thai and certainlky nowhere near my wife's level, though she insists all the kids in the family learn English).

 

I do believe though, that the opportunity for Chinese to be one of the top 2 languages has passed, better by far now to learn French (the international language of diplomacy), German or Italian. People intending to go live in the US of A (it won't be me...) should learn Engllish and Spanish - Chinese won't take root there for a very long time if at all.

 

The inadequacies of Thai learned over 12+ years, have meant that I rarely use Thai to communicate, if I encounter and must talk to a Thai who does not speak English, I prefer to explain in English what I want to say and ask my wife to say it, though she is often stumped at how to communicate more than very simple ideas in Thai. If my wife isn't there then I walk away and just have to manage without talking to the Thai. My loss? Probably. Their loss? Definitely.

 

Prayuth's whole idea that Thai could become a Lingua Franca of any sort is just more proof of his fundamental ignorance. He really ought to learn how to keep his mouth shut.

Edited June 15, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[phantomfiddler]

They also need to understand that it is not a crime to ask a question ! Most Thais that I know absolutely refuse to roll down the window and ask a local for directions when they are lost.

They seem to be of the mindset that by asking a question they are proving their ignorance, sad !

[jamesbbkk]

4 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Children should be taught how to learn, investigate and think and not just memorise  facts that may help them to pass tests. 

 

The most important  lesson being, if you aren’t making mistakes, you’re not trying hard enough. 

 

 

My kid gets hassled about her English. Why? American accent. <deleted>?

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, jamesbbkk said:

My kid gets hassled about her English. Why? American accent. <deleted>?

By who?

[KiwiKiwi]

3 minutes ago, jamesbbkk said:

My kid gets hassled about her English. Why? American accent. <deleted>?

Quite right too... 

Edited June 15, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[KiwiKiwi]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

By who?

 

Before the Donald, lots. After the Donald - just about everyone I should think.

 

 

[BobbyL]

17 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

They also need to understand that it is not a crime to ask a question ! Most Thais that I know absolutely refuse to roll down the window and ask a local for directions when they are lost.

They seem to be of the mindset that by asking a question they are proving their ignorance, sad !

It is a very deep rooted problem and will take generations to begin to phase out. 

 

Even for educated Thais it is still an extremely common trait, and I think only once they experience life / studying somewhere else do they begin to see how restricted they are here. 

 

Me and my wife lived two years in England recently where she studied an MSc whilst I was teaching. One of the first things she couldn't believe was how lectures and seminars were conducted there. Students questioning theories, being openly critical of what a lecturer may have proposed, and being able to research and portray ideas differently from the norms. It took her a while to become comfortable with it. 

 

All those things don't happen in your average Thai education system, from 3 years old all the way up to 23 years old, it really is a style of the teacher is always right and you must not disrespect that. 

 

On a side note, I love it when a kid pulls me up on a spelling, or possibly answering a maths question wrong. We have a laugh about it and at least I know they are paying attention to what I am doing. 

[Catoni]

4 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Children should be taught how to learn, investigate and think and not just memorise  facts that may help them to pass tests. 

 

The most important  lesson being, if you aren’t making mistakes, you’re not trying hard enough. 

 

 

Yer rite. , Im always makin lots mis takes  i dont wanna bother lernin no grammir or spelin.

    I must be tryen rilly hard. Figur i am wel edyukated.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Catoni
Addition

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, Catoni said:

Yer rite. , Im always makin lots mis takes  i dont wanna bother lernin no grammir or spelling.

    I must be tryen rilly hard.

Then, unlike the children I teach, you are not learning from your mistakes...

[samsensam]

3 hours ago, mok199 said:

i have lived here 20 years,and have never once (not one time) heard thais outside of a school setting ,speaking English in an attempt (in a safe enviorment of classmates) to better themselves. I have on numerous occasions asked '' why don't you and your freinds try "" the answer is always the same ,even their thai parents say '' shy''...in my opinion it is laziness and a lack of motivation..shy is the easy excuse

 

sounds like you've been living in a bubble, possibly your thai friends dont show interest in their children's education.

 

just off the top of my head three of my thai friends (not farang/thai couples) have sent their children to the states or australia as part of their school education, one father has been speaking English to his daughter since she was born and now aged nine is a confident english speaker. other thai friends have private English tutors for their children - i mean qualified, experienced native teachers not 'farang playing at being teachers', and they can chat away to me in english on a wide variety of topics.

 

[Inuk]

This a general comment which applies to every subject in the school curriculum not just the language but is fundemental to the learning process. I took my son to his entry interview at a school with an IEP course inconjunction with Thai subjects. I said to the Head that my son wants to learn not only by following the set curriculum but to learn by thinking outside the box. Will this be part of his education? "Sorry I not understand" came back the reply. I explained the meaning - "Oh I understand now but the inspectors tell us we have to follow the curriculum and not to change and our teachers do not learn how to do this". It has been the way for years now but the old ways are not the best in these times of fast moving global change. All credit to the young man in the original TNA article in his achievements and we hope he will continue to pass the message on in the public domain to the up and coming next generation.

[TKDfella]

I use to go to a Thai vocational college to help students with conversation English, that is the idea was just chat with a native English speaker. I walked around the class and noticed many had books which transliterated English into Thai. Of course, this just doesn't work because Thai must have a vowel to follow a consonant, สเต๊ก = sa-dtek, for example and there is no 'th' 'v' sounds in Thai. I told them to put those books away and we used much of the time just working on the pronunciation of syllables. A few were interested but most weren't. Strangely enough, Korean's have a similar problem with Thai. Thai often puts the wrong vowel in the transliteration because the Thai rules for vowels don't allow the correct vowel, 'Kwon' in Korean speech is 'Kwan' in Thai.

[DrTuner]

Yes but knowing English will also get you nasty access to foreign wikipedia articles, which may lead to Thai youths swallowing the red pill .. can't happen now can it, better slam that door shut.