U.S. judge sends ex-Trump campaign head Manafort to jail pre-trial

[Andaman Al]

4 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

"

If you think conspiring to obstruct justice by witness tampering is a threat to society, then yes. "

 

Therefore, (I am not a lawyer) my opinion is based upon years of law enforcement experience but I have never heard of Denial of Bail for obstruction of justice(this can be broadly defined) and "Witness Tampering" (this can also be broadly defined).  Of course I have also witnessed defendants granted bail for violent crimes.  I guess was wrong for all these years and the legal experts on TV have just educated me.  

 

He was not denied bail. Manafort was given bail and then he broke the terms of his bail. As a member of law enforcement have you ever heard of someone being jailed for breaking their bail? - often would be the correct answer. Breaking your bail bond is nothing to do with your original alleged crime, it is that you have broken a court order to behave in a specific way whilst awaiting a trial and the penalty for that is almost ALWAYS incarceration.

 

 Be careful what you claim about being law enforcement and please do not tell us where it was as you would damn them to looking like a Mickey Mouse organization. What law enforcement was it? Security 4 guarding the car parks at supermarkets?

 

This was not a hearing to grant bail, Manafort had already received bail and the crimes with which he is charged are so serious that he was one of the lucky ones that could afford bail. 10 Million USD! No ordinary man could have enjoyed freedom for the last 8 months and yet Manafort just had to try and beat the system. He reinforced alleged criminal behavior with actual criminal behaviour, he broke his conditions of bail. Witness tampering is a serious crime particularly when you weigh up the seriousness of the crime.

[Andaman Al]

12 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Yes.  The experts on TV are all correct.  1) Equal Justice Under the Law 2) Innocent Until Proven Guilty 3) Federal Judges are appointed for Life.  

1, Agreed, and Manafort was STILL given his freedom whilst he was allowed to prepare for a fair trial to answer for his alleged crimes.

 

2. Manafort was given the benefit of that doubt - that is why he was on bail.

 

3. Yes, and republicans seem to think that the appointment of Federal and Supreme court judges are a major political achievement. Judges are still accountable and responsible for making sure that their judgements and conclusions are within the law. The Judge in this case was very clear. On the emotional level she actually said "Mr Manafort i have no appetite for this but i have NO CHOICE". She had thought long and hard and had displayed humanity in her decision but she had to follow the law. There was nothing 'absolute' about her decision. The law is absolute.

 

There are no experts on here, we are all entitled to our view, it is just some people can appear to come across as experts when replying to people that have zero idea of what they are talking about.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Andaman Al

[Srikcir]

7 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

the state asked to keep it at $75,000 due to the seriousness of the case.

Apart from the factual irrelevance of your story to Manafort being sent to jail for witness tampering, did you consider that state laws and enforcement might be different from federal laws and sentencing?

Your story relates to charges by the State. Manafort is a defendent in Federal Court.

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

people that have zero idea of what they are talking about.

Easily overlooked is the fact that the judge said she was not revoking Manafort's bail as punishment but because his attempts to contact witnesses constituted a danger to the court's integrity.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/paul-manafort-headed-jail-after-witness-tampering-allegation-n883596

Manafort was sent to jail not because he was found guilty of witness tampering, to which he has pleaded innocent, but because the judge saw no viable alternative with him remaining free.

 

Manafort's attorney argued that Mueller had many witnesses who have not been revealed to the defendant so Manafort would not have any idea of knowing whether he contacted a witness or not (of course his surreptitious manner of contacts using cut-outs, encryption programs, multiple throw-away phones and password protected email drafts to conceal his contacts would indicate otherwise). The judge used in part that same argument to justify incarcerating Manafort to remove the incidental chance of contact with witnesses. Manafort boxed himself in and gave the judge little discretion.

[attrayant]

10 hours ago, Anak Nakal said:

He campaign CHAIRMAN.

Put in jail. Lose key.

 

 

And he was remanded in Washington DC, so most likely he went to the DC Jail.  I used to work for DC Gov, and that place is a roach & rat-infested, urine-soaked hell hole.

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

And he was remanded in Washington DC, so most likely he went to the DC Jail.  I used to work for DC Gov, and that place is a roach & rat-infested, urine-soaked hell hole.

Actually, I read that most likely he's been remanded to the Alexandria jail because that's where they send people accused of white collar crimes.

[Basil B]

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

He’s had his bail removed for ‘conspiring with a Russian agent to interfere with witnesses to the FBI investigation into Russian interference in the US election’

 

Absolutely nothing to do with Trump ?!

 

The charges Manafort faces carry a total of over 300 year’s prison time.

 

OR

 

Manafort (Trump Campaign Manager) could cut a plea deal and become a cooperating witness.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with Trump ?!

 

OR 

 

Trump’s attourney is floating the idea Trump might pardon Manafort.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with Trump ?!

 

 

Trump did not know???

 

Me think that there is evidence to prove that not only did DT knew at the time he was the main instigator, when the likes of Manafort start to realise they are going down for a very long time they will start to plea bargain... 

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Trump did not know???

 

Me think that there is evidence to prove that not only did DT knew at the time he was the main instigator, when the likes of Manafort start to realise they are going down for a very long time they will start to plea bargain... 

Well, Giuliani has been explicitly saying that Trump could grant a pardon. So that may not be much of a threat.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Basil B said:

Trump did not know???

 

Me think that there is evidence to prove that not only did DT knew at the time he was the main instigator, when the likes of Manafort start to realise they are going down for a very long time they will start to plea bargain... 

Of course Trump knew, he’s already changed his statement regarding knowledge of the Trump Tower ‘dirt on Hillary’ meetings, he now admits he helped draft the letter denying knowledge of the meeting, a letter he had previously denied all knowledge of.

 

He’s a serial liar.

 

The truth will (despite Trump’s best efforts) out!

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Well, Giuliani has been explicitly saying that Trump could grant a pardon. So that may not be much of a threat.

The same thing was said about Flynn before he started to sing like a canary - the pardon never arrived.

 

You forget too, Manafort faces NY State crimes that can’t be pardoned by Trump.

 

Add to that the ‘optics’ of Trump pardoning Manafort who’s charges include crimes against the USA.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

 He reinforced alleged criminal behavior with actual criminal behaviour, he broke his conditions of bail. Witness tampering is a serious crime particularly when you weigh up the seriousness of the crime.

 

I'd add to that, IMHO, someone who's innocent probably doesn't need to be making secret contacts with his conspirators while out of bail in an attempt to get them to deny what they've already admitted to.

 

On the other hand, someone who's guilty and knows it probably would be inclined to take those exact kinds of steps to avoid the truth coming out in court, and risk having his bail revoked, because he's otherwise looking at a pretty stiff jail sentence, even if it ends up being a "Club Fed" somewhere.

 

Of course, Trump might pardon him at some point in time, if Trump was really daring. But it would be very interesting to see the fallout that would occur from such a move, as it might well hasten an impeachment proceeding against him.

 

[Basil B]

6 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Of course, Trump might pardon him at some point in time, if Trump was really daring. But it would be very interesting to see the fallout that would occur from such a move, as it might well hasten an impeachment proceeding against him.

 

I do not think they are that gullible to Trust Trump, they know the only bacon that guy is interested in saving is his own. 

[Andaman Al]

46 minutes ago, Basil B said:

I do not think they are that gullible to Trust Trump, they know the only bacon that guy is interested in saving is his own. 

This is exactly what Manafort has to ponder on. Despite Giuliano hinting at possible pardons, you have to have balls the size of Jupiter to trust that DJT will actually follow through with a pardon. Because if Manafort does not squeal and Trump does not pardon, then Manafort will go down for 50 years.  Manafort has zero option, he needs to try and take a 2-5 year plea deal (I don't know if such leniency will even be offered) if he ever wants to see freedom again.

[Srikcir]

12 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

And he was remanded in Washington DC, so most likely he went to the DC Jail.  I used to work for DC Gov, and that place is a roach & rat-infested, urine-soaked hell hole.

Inmate No. 45343 (Manafort) was transferred to Northern Neck Regional Jail in Warsaw, Virginia. A two-hour drive by car for his attorneys. It is in Facebook (reviews rated it 2.1 out of 5 stars) and has a web site: http://nnrj.state.va.us/

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/16/politics/paul-manafort-virginia-jail-life/index.html

 

[spidermike007]

Trump CANNOT pardon Manafort, if he is convicted of state crimes. Only federal crimes. Manafort is exactly where he belongs. He has been skirting laws for so long, and getting away with it. He is now realizing that by dealing with Mr. Radioactive, he has attracted unwanted attention. I hope he is tried and convicted. However, prior to that, he would probably choose to throw Captain Chaos under the bus. 

Edited June 17, 2018 by spidermike007

[Basil B]

9 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

This is exactly what Manafort has to ponder on. Despite Giuliano hinting at possible pardons,

Is that not witness tampering too???