How can schools keep farangs from leaving?

[puukao]

I will type this fast, so please bash my ghrahmarraer.  Thanks in advance.

 

1.  i don't think more money will keep a farang, maybe one more year.  5-10k baht more per month isn't much, but i know that's relative.  if you really want more money, go back home.  we know this.  

2.  better lunches?  

3.  less hours, less than 18 i think would keep some more

4.  only need to be at school for teaching, not to sit around or help with other stuff

5.  IF they want to be at school and help with other stuff, GREAT!!  But not mandatory

6.  longer contracts with less chance of a school breaking the contract

7.  private office, or private space...

8.  more help in the classroom

9.  better computers

10.  more control over curriculum...

 

????

 

OK< that was fast.

 

I've seen about 15 farangs leave in one year, and it's super rare anyone stays longer than 1 year.  

 

Any thoughts on how to keep farangs from leaving?

 

if good feedback, i will advise my school.  

 

 

[simon43]

Lock the doors?

[HampiK]

My first question would be, are the farangs needed?

 

When it's nice to have farangs but not neccessary, then nothing needs to be changed.

 

When they are really needed, then I guess easier work-permit and probably more money. Especially for the low paid jobs.

On the other side, what are the teachers expecting?

1. My guess is, that some only want try to be somewhere else for 1-2 year and they then happy go back home, for this there is nothing to change as they not want stay longer.
2. Then I think there are some teachers which needs the money (don't know how good they really are in their jobs) and this teachers not leaving by themselves they are happy to have a job.
3. And then there are the good teachers, which only leaves if they can find a even better job. As they have the qualifications and really know the teaching stuff. They mostly already work at a good school with a good salary for Thailand.

 

Why you not asked some of the 15 farangs, why they left? I think this would be the best to know the real reasons.

 

[scorecard]

 

Good initial point, change the pedagogy, make it much more student centered / student active, and quickly re-educate Thai teachers to understand and use the methods, and make it compulsory.

 

Reduce class size, max ever 30, less better.

 

Deliberately have some foreign teachers, (some, not the numbers currently seen), but on a different basis, look at school rankings across the world in terms of further innovations etc, and invite teachers from these institutions, perhaps one year or even 1 semester, perhaps video tape their lessons for further analysis and implementation.

 

Have a team / committee do the above (not controlled form within the Ed. Ministry) and same team / committee responsible to build models of teacher training from the countries who always rank highly, etc., etc. 

 

Every year conduct competitions to select very bright kids who want to be teachers to study a teaching degree abroad and then use and share their learning at home.

 

Without large scale decentralization not much will change. Decentralize and push schools to compete with each other, reward schools that innovate new methods, new materials, new equipment. And allow kids to register at any school, anywhere.

 

Surround every school director with a continuous 24 hr audit team (not from within the ed. ministry), and continuously change the team make-up every 6 months with new staffing, with comprehensive 6 months reporting to a corruption watch-dog. 

 

 

[Suradit69]

On 6/16/2018 at 9:18 AM, puukao said:

Any thoughts on how to keep farangs from leaving?

Wanting to hold onto farang teachers simply because they are farang is ridiculous.

 

Maybe thoughts on how to retain well qualified, talented, dedicated, effective farang teachers and  cull the useless space-fillers would be worth discussing. Most likely a high percentage of those who leave, especially after serving only one year, aren't worth bothering about and came here because they thought it would be a good way to have a cheap holiday.

 

On 6/16/2018 at 9:18 AM, puukao said:

2.  better lunches?  

4.  only need to be at school for teaching, not to sit around or help with other stuff

5.  IF they want to be at school and help with other stuff, GREAT!!  But not mandatory

Lunches and stuff. The main concerns of dedicated teachers world-wide.

 

Maybe add in lockers to store beach gear.

 

 

 

[OmarZaid]

1. Identify quality teachers.

2. Identify Quality students (i.e., self-motivated)

3. Match them and do not waste a quality teacher's time with poor quality or disinterested students.

4. Use your quality teachers wisely and do not burden them with futile tasks.

 

 

[baansgr]

It could be the recruitment process and criteria. If they allowed older expats that do not have degree's but do have ties to Thailand and the community plus common sense with life long experiences,  these people would probably  stay year after year.. Seems stupid that there is ample untapped teacher material that is just cast aside because of age or doesn't have Bachelor's degree.

[Margita]

Hi there,Very many of Farang teachers come here for a certain stay for own international experience as well as to learn the job and culture of different countries.I just have experience of Kajon Kiet School in Phuket where my grand daughter was on the mixed program.First of all farang English speaking teachers are a must if the children are to learn good English! This is a win-win situation för Thailand as well as the teachers.I do not think it so mych a question about salary or other thing.The teachers I know are definitely not working 18 hours not even 12 normally 8am to  5-7 pm.

As to International schools it is quite of different situation,they have to go according to thei curiculum and thus teachers need to be of high standar ( I suppose,dont know)

What we do need is very skilled English speaking teacher (with native Englisg or western standar exellent Enflish) WE NEED THEM TO THAI SCHOOLS! With Thai program. I can see within my Thai family,kids that even studied at university level have very poor English in reading and speaking the language as they have often had Thai teachers.We even know that Thais have difficulties with som letters even in their own languange. Then again I think it would be a very good idea to use our retired expacts with exellent knowledge in English writing,reading and spoken proper English English or American dito without any special accents.Today age of Westerners is not same as before.As long as a person wishes to work and can do the job good why should age be a hinder?

[GOLDBUGGY]

There is several problems in your analysis that needs to be mentioned first. 

 

1) There are several English Speaking Countries who have Experienced Teachers, all willing to work for a lower wage, longer hours, and don't care about school lunches. The Philippines and Nigeria are just two of them. 

 

2) At what level of education and training do you need to teach High School Students in Thailand a few classes a week? I venture to say that many of the English Teachers employed now, have very little teaching experience or actual training. 

 

3) The real solution to this English Learning Problem for Thailand isn't to hire more Farang English Teachers by paying them more money, with less hours and more benefits. The real solution is to teach the teachers the English Language, and pay them better for learning that.   

[duanebigsby]

One problem is that many of these teachers aren't leaving or changing schools of their own accord.

 

Often the best teachers are also the ones vocal in their concerns about school policy and teaching methods.

They care about the students enough to raise concerns about rote learning, huge class sizes, forced haircuts, ridiculous pomp and ceremony etc.

 

Then the schools don't renew their contracts because they don't fit the system. In a sense, they're fired.

 

Thai school administrators are not interested as much about good quality teachers as they are about teachers not making waves.

[bkkgriz]

I think there is one point you are overlooking. What is the incentive for the school to keep a farang teacher? You, I should say we, are easily replaced. You say you have seen 15 teachers leave. We're all of them replaced within a week or two? 

 

As long as teachers are willing to put up with low pay and crappy conditions, schools will continue on the current path.

 

[duanebigsby]

15 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

There is several problems in your analysis that needs to be mentioned first. 

 

1) There are several English Speaking Countries who have Experienced Teachers, all willing to work for a lower wage, longer hours, and don't care about school lunches. The Philippines and Nigeria are just two of them. 

 

2) At what level of education and training do you need to teach High School Students in Thailand a few classes a week? I venture to say that many of the English Teachers employed now, have very little teaching experience or actual training. 

 

3) The real solution to this English Learning Problem for Thailand isn't to hire more Farang English Teachers by paying them more money, with less hours and more benefits. The real solution is to teach the teachers the English Language, and pay them better for learning that.   

I have worked along side quite a few fantastic Filipino teachers here. But they were always asking me to proofread their tests or lesson plans and also asking "how do I pronounce this or this"

Thai English teachers the same questions.

 

Native English speakers should be a valued resource in Thai schools.

 

ps. I can barely understand a word a Nigerian says.

[ratcatcher]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

It could be the recruitment process and criteria. If they allowed older expats that do not have degree's but do have ties to Thailand and the community plus common sense with life long experiences,  these people would probably  stay year after year.. Seems stupid that there is ample untapped teacher material that is just cast aside because of age or doesn't have Bachelor's degree.

You have hit the proverbial nail on the head sir.

My 9 year old nephew is in a Thai government school here in Phichit, he has had English lessons from a Cameroonian teacher for the last year,  and after a year he only just knows his alphabet and cannot differentiate between capital and lower case letters. There are thousands of retired expats living throughout the country who may be willing to sit with a small group of interested students in order to practice that English the Thai teachers have "taught" them. Many can do this as they are in small villages where everyone knows everyone else. Having a Thai teach pronunciation is akin to having a farang try to teach Thai . With the exception of a few truly talented farang Thai speakers like Andrew Biggs.

[Cereal]

I've been teaching for over 13 years now and and one thing that most schools do which I disapprove of is the 1-year contract. Is there a reason a teacher cannot just get hired?

 

I finally have a teaching job now, after working the trenches for so long, which is professional. I have a job, there is no contract and nothing to get signed year after year at the owner's whim. 

 

The last school I worked at got overrun by Filipinos. Generally, their English abilities were substandard. Their grammar was tragic and their pronunciation was poor.

[duanebigsby]

14 minutes ago, bkkgriz said:

I think there is one point you are overlooking. What is the incentive for the school to keep a farang teacher? You, I should say we, are easily replaced. You say you have seen 15 teachers leave. We're all of them replaced within a week or two? 

 

As long as teachers are willing to put up with low pay and crappy conditions, schools will continue on the current path.

 

The answer is continuity.

When the foreigner stays several years it provides stability and continuity of their lesson plans, relationship with students, and relationship with fellow teachers and administration.

The revolving door of teachers is a chaotic mess and the students go back to step one with every new teacher.

[duanebigsby]

3 minutes ago, Cereal said:

I've been teaching for over 13 years now and and one thing that most schools do which I disapprove of is the 1-year contract. Is there a reason a teacher cannot just get hired?

 

I finally have a teaching job now, after working the trenches for so long, which is professional. I have a job, there is no contract and nothing to get signed year after year at the owner's whim. 

 

The last school I worked at got overrun by Filipinos. Generally, their English abilities were substandard. Their grammar was tragic and their pronunciation was poor.

My experience with Filipino coworkers was quite different in that they had good grammar and for the most part good pronunciation.  I do, however, recall a coworker asking me about something. It sounded like she was asking about a computer program called  C-Source but in reality she wanted something to cut paper with....scissors.

[GOLDBUGGY]

14 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

I have worked along side quite a few fantastic Filipino teachers here. But they were always asking me to proofread their tests or lesson plans and also asking "how do I pronounce this or this"

Thai English teachers the same questions.

 

Native English speakers should be a valued resource in Thai schools.

 

ps. I can barely understand a word a Nigerian says.

I agree that Native English Speakers should be (a more) valued resource in Thai Schools. Especially the good ones, educated one, and experienced ones, who enjoy teaching and get personal satifaction from seeing there accomplishments. 

 

But look at yourself and your own post. You are an English Teachers in some school. But also look at how much help is required from you to help other Filipino Teachers! In there lies the problem! You should not be an English Teacher but in fact a Supervisor who is paid more than to the other Foreign English Teachers for the Philippeans  and Nigeria, But you are not by much as you give this service away free of charge.  

[duanebigsby]

Goldbuggy

I view it more like I'm a teacher who is willing to help his coworkers. 

I'm not wanting more money just for helping co-teachers out.

[duanebigsby]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Surround every school director with a continuous 24 hr audit team (not from within the ed. ministry), and continuously change the team make-up every 6 months with new staffing, with comprehensive 6 months reporting to a corruption watch-dog. 

You had me until this.

24 hour surveillance of the director? Does the audit team come to his/her house and eat and sleep with him/her?

Changing administration every 6 months will wreak havoc!

[puukao]

Let's not kid ourselves......More Farangs, especially attractive Americans with a "proper" accent, is worth more money to the school.  They make the school more money, this really is a fact.  

 

Parents complain that other teachers don't have the appropriate accent, and since the hardest word might be "usually," then it's really all about the accent.

 

Do I agree?  Of course not, it's ridiculous, but these teachers do get paid the most.  

 

I agree that matching best students with best teachers makes sense, but money talks.  If the kid's parents are rich, that kid will get priority; regardless of the kid's ability.

 

I've asked the teachers why they leave.  Usually burnt out, but sometimes they just leave and nobody sees them again.

 

 

[SheungWan]

No reason to stay longer than two years worth of CV.

[Sumarianson]

Paying a foreigner 35,000 a month is equivalent to €11000 or £9000 a year. The minimum wage in the UK is €17000 PA so you can see that while the 11000 in Thailand may seem enough to a Thai; It would by no means allow a foreigner to enjoy the same lifestyle they could have in a decent teaching job in the UK or Europe. Foreigners living in just a single 35 sq mtr decent condo in BKK would spend 12000฿ a month in outlying areas and 14000or 18000 in a central area. They would likely use air con at home all the time they are there creating bills of up to 1500 a month. Internet would be essential and cost around 1000 a month for a fair decent service. Remember this is for a single person living on their own. If they had a wife and children to support , there would be no way to support them in any fair decent style. In Thailand you are expected to do extracellular activities without extra pay. I was earning £60000 to £70000 a year as an engineer in the UK without a degree,  why would I work for a pittance in Thailand and not be appreciated while being expected to have a petty degree along with the remuneration insult.

[grkt]

Barrow has been a slave for a ridiculous salary since 20 years, so as you can see, they all do not leave...

 

 

[puukao]

27 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

Paying a foreigner 35,000 a month is equivalent to €11000 or £9000 a year. The minimum wage in the UK is €17000 PA so you can see that while the 11000 in Thailand may seem enough to a Thai; It would by no means allow a foreigner to enjoy the same lifestyle they could have in a decent teaching job in the UK or Europe. Foreigners living in just a single 35 sq mtr decent condo in BKK would spend 12000฿ a month in outlying areas and 14000or 18000 in a central area. They would likely use air con at home all the time they are there creating bills of up to 1500 a month. Internet would be essential and cost around 1000 a month for a fair decent service. Remember this is for a single person living on their own. If they had a wife and children to support , there would be no way to support them in any fair decent style. In Thailand you are expected to do extracellular activities without extra pay. I was earning £60000 to £70000 a year as an engineer in the UK without a degree,  why would I work for a pittance in Thailand and not be appreciated while being expected to have a petty degree along with the remuneration insult.

I'll add a few things.  Yes, 35,000 is really nothing. It's funny how all the other teachers tell you how you are making SOO much money, as if you should only get 15000 to 18000.  I tell them all to just go ask for a raise, and I don't care if they get 5000 or 50,000....it doesn't affect my life.  

 

It's true, you really aren't appreciated.  Or you are appreciated a little bit, but then really hated if you try to complain, leave early, etc.....  

 

Back to the money issue, 35,000 might be enough in the middle-of-nowhere (my city is like 10,000 people and it's a few hours to the water), but you remind yourself how you really shouldn't be working 7-4 for 35,000.  I think it should be up to the teacher, morning or afternoon.  12-4 really might work great, and then you get better teachers.  

 

My rent is only 3000 baht, but I would rather pay 12000 and live in a big city like BKK.  Luckily, I could simply leave and live in BKK for a year without working; however, I don't mind working.  

 

It's challenging... 

[grkt]

and what about other languages ? are they taught by Chinese ? French ? Spanish people ? Or few schools actually teach anything but English ?

 

 

[duanebigsby]

37 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

Paying a foreigner 35,000 a month is equivalent to €11000 or £9000 a year. The minimum wage in the UK is €17000 PA so you can see that while the 11000 in Thailand may seem enough to a Thai; It would by no means allow a foreigner to enjoy the same lifestyle they could have in a decent teaching job in the UK or Europe. Foreigners living in just a single 35 sq mtr decent condo in BKK would spend 12000฿ a month in outlying areas and 14000or 18000 in a central area. They would likely use air con at home all the time they are there creating bills of up to 1500 a month. Internet would be essential and cost around 1000 a month for a fair decent service. Remember this is for a single person living on their own. If they had a wife and children to support , there would be no way to support them in any fair decent style. In Thailand you are expected to do extracellular activities without extra pay. I was earning £60000 to £70000 a year as an engineer in the UK without a degree,  why would I work for a pittance in Thailand and not be appreciated while being expected to have a petty degree along with the remuneration insult.

So teaching here is not for you. Fair enough.

I made 4 times what I make teaching here back in Vancouver and spent close to 75% of my wage on lodgings and bill.

I managed to put about $500 in the bank each month. Here I make the teacher's wage and mange to put about $450 a month in the bank and don't have to deal with the winters. What's the difference? That's why I teach here.

[DILLIGAD]

Hi there,Very many of Farang teachers come here for a certain stay for own international experience as well as to learn the job and culture of different countries.I just have experience of Kajon Kiet School in Phuket where my grand daughter was on the mixed program.First of all farang English speaking teachers are a must if the children are to learn good English! This is a win-win situation för Thailand as well as the teachers.I do not think it so mych a question about salary or other thing.The teachers I know are definitely not working 18 hours not even 12 normally 8am to  5-7 pm.
As to International schools it is quite of different situation,they have to go according to thei curiculum and thus teachers need to be of high standar ( I suppose,dont know)
What we do need is very skilled English speaking teacher (with native Englisg or western standar exellent Enflish) WE NEED THEM TO THAI SCHOOLS! With Thai program. I can see within my Thai family,kids that even studied at university level have very poor English in reading and speaking the language as they have often had Thai teachers.We even know that Thais have difficulties with som letters even in their own languange. Then again I think it would be a very good idea to use our retired expacts with exellent knowledge in English writing,reading and spoken proper English English or American dito without any special accents.Today age of Westerners is not same as before.As long as a person wishes to work and can do the job good why should age be a hinder?

Age isn’t a hinderance but a ‘Retirement Visa’ will be.


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[duanebigsby]

9 minutes ago, grkt said:

Barrow has been a slave for a ridiculous salary since 20 years, so as you can see, they all do not leave...

 

 

People have different reasons for accepting a low salary. To be condescending like your post is rude.

[duanebigsby]

2 minutes ago, grkt said:

and what about other languages ? are they taught by Chinese ? French ? Spanish people ? Or few schools actually teach anything but English ?

 

 

Most schools teach Thai, English, and Chinese.

[DILLIGAD]

I have worked along side quite a few fantastic Filipino teachers here. But they were always asking me to proofread their tests or lesson plans and also asking "how do I pronounce this or this"
Thai English teachers the same questions.
 
Native English speakers should be a valued resource in Thai schools.
 
ps. I can barely understand a word a Nigerian says.

+1


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