Bumrungrad Payment Policies

[Jingthing]

I have a friend who is going in there for a big procedure and so far it is hard to find info about their payment policies. I have heard stories before that some hospitals play games when you pay with an international credit card, such as adding extra fees, or doing their own currency conversion first, making it all the more expensive. Now I realize many credit card companies add 3 percent to any international transaction, but I am asking about whether Bumrungrad adds any more?

I tried to call them about this, got transferred two times, then the phone rang for 2 minutes with no anwer ...

[lopburi3]

The first and last time I even used in patient service from that hospital, several years ago, they indeed did use the local conversion process and a very unfavorable rate.

[Prakanong]

I used a Euro credit card and got a terrible exchange rate from Bumrungrad - should have paid with the THB I had in my pocket

[backflip]

When I charged on a US credit card, the charge was in baht - not dollars. MasterCard did the exchange rate - a good rate, but not as good as if I used an ATM. Why would you ever allow any company to charge you in a foreign currency? If you use the card in the US, would you allow them to do a USD-to-Euro exchange calculation?

[Prakanong]

Backflip

I do know where you are coming from but a time in hospital sometimes mean you are not thinking with your economic head but just want out of there?

Therefore you take what you are given.

In my case why the hel did I ay wioth my Luxembourg CC rather than with the THB I had in my pocket???

If I wasbuying a TV or camera etc I know what I would do :-))))

[lopburi3]

Hospital payment is not a time where you are looking to be hoodwinked and most people are under either mental, physical or financial stress to an extreme. In our case it was a transfer to another hospital which had already been delayed for over four hours while they did paperwork.

[taxexile]

when they swipe your card there , they will tell you the exchange rate and ask if you want to pay in the currency of the country your card is from , or in baht. you choose.

before any treatment , they ask you to leave a deposit , usually the amount the treatment is estimated to cost , after treatment you will either get a refund or be asked to pay the outstanding amount.

refunds can be done via the credit card , in which case they say it will take 3 weeks to be credited , or if you make a fuss , they will give you a cash refund on the spot.

if the total bill is more than the deposit , then they may ask you to do another transaction for the full amount and they will credit you back your original deposit on the card. dont accept that method , as you will have a large debt to the credit card company until the refund comes through... up to 3 weeks , and unless you pay the credit card company in full each month , then you will have unecessary interest payments too.

insist on paying only the outstanding amount.

the cashiers there are reluctant to change their procedures , and you may need to speak to someone higher up to be able to pay the way you want , as opposed to their way.

your friend should speak to the finance department there before going in , and sort out all the payment / deposit / refund details first , so that there are no hassles encountered when the time comes to pay.

[posttenebraslux]

I have a friend who is going in there for a big procedure and so far it is hard to find info about their payment policies. I have heard stories before that some hospitals play games when you pay with an international credit card, such as adding extra fees, or doing their own currency conversion first, making it all the more expensive. Now I realize many credit card companies add 3 percent to any international transaction, but I am asking about whether Bumrungrad adds any more?

I tried to call them about this, got transferred two times, then the phone rang for 2 minutes with no anwer ...

You must be joking or have fallen to incorrect information. In my experience, and for the last 22 years, Bumrungrad's Payment Policy has always been correct. I use an European Credit Card (Visa Gold) which charges 1,25% on the Baht-issued amount of the bill. My (foreign) bank account is then charged with an easily controllable conversion rate in EURO.

There are no added fees and Bumrungrad never tried to convert the bill's amount into EURO at a low exchange rate of it's own.

Please check your bill when you pay and make sure that you just use your credit card again for the remaining due of your final receipt.

posttenebraslux

[Jingthing]

Hi Post, not only am I not "joking" but there are posters right here who say they say they have had problems with Bumrungrad, so all I can say is you must not be reading ...

Anyway, if I understand this correctly, the smartest way of dealing with this would be insist that the charges be made in BAHT on the credit card so as to make sure that you get the card's exchange rate rather than the hospital's exchange rate on your western currency. Then, when leaving, do not agree to pay the full balance, only the much smaller amount that is due. Sound good?

I believe in the case of US cards, even if you asked to pay in dollars, that the credit card companies would probably still charge their standard international surcharge because the charge came from outside the US.

Edited February 2, 2007 by Jingthing

[backflip]

"I believe in the case of US cards, even if you asked to pay in dollars, that the credit card companies would probably still charge their standard international surcharge because the charge came from outside the US. "

I've never been subjected to an "international surchage" for a charge made in USD for a transaction outside of the US.

[lopburi3]

"I believe in the case of US cards, even if you asked to pay in dollars, that the credit card companies would probably still charge their standard international surcharge because the charge came from outside the US. "

I've never been subjected to an "international surchage" for a charge made in USD for a transaction outside of the US.

You may not been subjected to it but the fact is almost all US banks do charge a foreign currency conversion fee and for last several years most have applied this fee even if the billing is done in dollars. So anybody doing the conversion overseas these days gets hit with a double whammy.

[Jingthing]

I would assume the card companies will charge something until proven otherwise or you call them to clarify their policies. There are cards that don't charge any foreign usage charges at all, but my impression is that most of them do because they are in business to mint money.

[Sheryl]

I have 2 credit cards from 2 different banks. One charges a foreign transaction charge no matter what currency was used, the other only if there was a conversion from one currency to another involved. You can guess which one I use when in Cambodia where everything is in US Dollars....

Back to topic: be sure they charge you in Thai Baht, not foreign currency, that will protect you from an unfair exchange rate. If you can arrange to pay in cash, that will also save you the foreign exchange transaction charge on your credit card.

Other things that can help reduce the bill:

- before going in, get as much of the pre-op lab work done at a less expensive place as possible. Vitrually any hospital can do common blood tests, Xray, EKG. Ask the surgeon what is needed, get it done elsewhere and bring results with you.

- ask to be admitted on the morning of the surgery rather than the night before if possible.

- request a semi-private rather than private room (they will often automatically admit foreigners to a private room). And ask clearly aboput room rates, even within the category of private or semi-private there are sometimes different rates. If you don't speak up they will route you to the most expensive.

- be wary of food offerings: between meal snacks and visitor meals will be charged at a very high rate.

- bring along a mobile phone and charger; use hospital phone only for incoming calls.

- insist on discharge as soon as feasible, even if still needing daily dressing changes or injections. These can be done on a daily outpatient basis. There is a residence attached to the hospital where one can stay at a fraction of the hospital room rate.

- Be wary of unnecessary medication while in the hospital. Probably not feasible in the immediate post-operative period but ask the reason and purpose for any oral medicines given once you start to eat. Antibiotics are necessary but you will likely find a whole bunch of other unnecessary pills added at exhorbitant price.

Upon discharge -

1) scrutinize every item on the bill carefully and if necessary demand translation. I have found incorrect tems tacked on more often than not. Also have often found incorrect charges, or miscoded procedures (interestingly, these "errors" are always in the hospital's favor)

2) do not buy the medication at the hospital, and before discharge ask your doctor what medications you will need to take and for what purpose. Then at the cashier ask for a list of medications ordered. Chances are most of what will be there is unnecessary; antibiotic being the exception. Buy at an outsider pharmacy.

Bumgrungrad has some very good health care professionals on staff but it's administration is pure unmitigated greed.

[taxexile]

some very good pharmacy cash and carry "supermarkets" near the entrance to siriraj hospital in thonburi.

medication bought there can be considerably cheaper than that purchased from bumrungrad ( and other in house pharmacies)

very helpful staff , but little english spoken.

[ajarnmark]

I have a friend who is going in there for a big procedure and so far it is hard to find info about their payment policies. I have heard stories before that some hospitals play games when you pay with an international credit card, such as adding extra fees, or doing their own currency conversion first, making it all the more expensive. Now I realize many credit card companies add 3 percent to any international transaction, but I am asking about whether Bumrungrad adds any more?

I tried to call them about this, got transferred two times, then the phone rang for 2 minutes with no anwer ...

When pay from Credit Card, the hospital will charge u in baht and the bank in ur country will do the exchange rate adjustment and NOT the hospital. I have been using CC from my country in Thailand and Thai CC in other countries. For example my Thai CC charged in Euro was translated in baht by my bank, here in Thailand. So dont worry about anything, just ask the hospital to charge u in baht. The FOREX translation may not be very suitable, but u may not have any other options.

[lopburi3]

And that is what most people think. But there is a special deal done using Bangkok Bank - they convert from baht to USD here in Thailand and submit the bill to your US bank in USD. I and others have suffered this method so don't say it is not done.

[taxexile]

But there is a special deal done using Bangkok Bank

hmmmmm.

correct me if i am wrong , but isnt one of the big cheeses at bangkok bank also a big shareholder in bumrungrad hospital.

[wpcoe]

When pay from Credit Card, the hospital will charge u in baht and the bank in ur country will do the exchange rate adjustment and NOT the hospital. I have been using CC from my country in Thailand and Thai CC in other countries. For example my Thai CC charged in Euro was translated in baht by my bank, here in Thailand. So dont worry about anything, just ask the hospital to charge u in baht. The FOREX translation may not be very suitable, but u may not have any other options.

Welcome to the 21st century. Not only is the conversion to home currency a reality in an increasing number of Thai restaurants and stores (and apparently hospitals), I encountered it at several stores in Singapore, too.

Each time I encountered it in Singapore, I was asked which currency I wanted charged to my VISA card and what the exchange would be if I chose my home currency (US$). After hearing the ridiculously low exchange rate, of course I opted for Singapore dollars. On another forum there was discussion that in restaurants and shops in Thailand you simply are given a charge slip in your home currency to sign. No option, and perhaps no training/ability of the cashier to re-do the transaction in THB. I rarely use my VISA card in Thailand so I have not personally experienced this, but the reports certainly seemed plausible enough.

[taxout]

This is called Dynamic Currency Conversion; it's available with both Visa and Mastercard, and it's becoming increasingly common since the merchant can make some money off it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_currency_conversion

[lingling]

Welcome to the 21st century. Not only is the conversion to home currency a reality in an increasing number of Thai restaurants and stores (and apparently hospitals), I encountered it at several stores in Singapore, too.

Each time I encountered it in Singapore, I was asked which currency I wanted charged to my VISA card and what the exchange would be if I chose my home currency (US$). After hearing the ridiculously low exchange rate, of course I opted for Singapore dollars. On another forum there was discussion that in restaurants and shops in Thailand you simply are given a charge slip in your home currency to sign. No option, and perhaps no training/ability of the cashier to re-do the transaction in THB. I rarely use my VISA card in Thailand so I have not personally experienced this, but the reports certainly seemed plausible enough.

The CC slip will always state above the signature line that you understand that you have declined your right to be charged in the local currency (THB).

Just tell the cashier before handing over the card that you want to be charged in THB. If the slip mentions USD or EUR anywhere, refuse to sign it, and tell them to immediately cancel the USD/EUR transaction. If they refuse to charge you in THB, walk out (if in a shop where you can just leave the goods), or call their bank (if you already received the services/goods, e.g. in a hospital) and explain that they refuse to charge you in THB despite the CC slip stating that you can choose. The bank should set them straight.

Bumrungrad's USD rates for example are always something like 10% off the official bank rates. Good way to make a few $$$ extra out of patients who may be in a state of mind where they don't pay attention to the difference between the A4 bill and the tiny credit card slip...

Other than Bumrungrad I have had the same issue at Emporium, IT City (Pantip Plaza) and some hotel (can't remember which one).

Edited February 5, 2007 by lingling

[Paul MBMG]

I have a friend who is going in there for a big procedure and so far it is hard to find info about their payment policies. I have heard stories before that some hospitals play games when you pay with an international credit card, such as adding extra fees, or doing their own currency conversion first, making it all the more expensive. Now I realize many credit card companies add 3 percent to any international transaction, but I am asking about whether Bumrungrad adds any more?

I tried to call them about this, got transferred two times, then the phone rang for 2 minutes with no anwer ...

When pay from Credit Card, the hospital will charge u in baht and the bank in ur country will do the exchange rate adjustment and NOT the hospital. I have been using CC from my country in Thailand and Thai CC in other countries. For example my Thai CC charged in Euro was translated in baht by my bank, here in Thailand. So dont worry about anything, just ask the hospital to charge u in baht. The FOREX translation may not be very suitable, but u may not have any other options.

this isn't so much to do with Bumrungrad as the Thai credit card companies

in general if they bring you a bill in the currency of the credit card it will work out more expensive than if you pay in Baht; it's the same as if you get your overseas bank to send money to Thailand in baht rather than in your home currency; you'll get stuffed that way too

Always get Thai credit card bills in baht, laways transfer from home country in hard currency

The benefciary of teh rate on the former is the Thai credit card intermediary not the retailer

[Paul MBMG]

This is called Dynamic Currency Conversion; it's available with both Visa and Mastercard, and it's becoming increasingly common since the merchant can make some money off it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_currency_conversion

thanks Taxout - wasn't aware of the wikipedia entry

[wpcoe]

Just tell the cashier before handing over the card that you want to be charged in THB. If the slip mentions USD or EUR anywhere, refuse to sign it, and tell them to immediately cancel the USD/EUR transaction. If they refuse to charge you in THB, walk out (if in a shop where you can just leave the goods), or call their bank (if you already received the services/goods, e.g. in a hospital) and explain that they refuse to charge you in THB despite the CC slip stating that you can choose. The bank should set them straight.

Great advice ... in theory.

TiT, however, so good luck when you try to charge your restaurant bill in THB late in the evening in Pattaya, or Khon Kaen, or Yala, or .....

The reports I've read are that the cashier feigned total ignorance how to cancel the original and re-charge in local currency on the new machines. What do you do then? Who do you call at 10pm that will understand and help you?

[lingling]

Great advice ... in theory.

TiT, however, so good luck when you try to charge your restaurant bill in THB late in the evening in Pattaya, or Khon Kaen, or Yala, or .....

The reports I've read are that the cashier feigned total ignorance how to cancel the original and re-charge in local currency on the new machines. What do you do then? Who do you call at 10pm that will understand and help you?

It may be a problem at night in a restaurant if you are in a hurry and can't fall back on paying cash, yes. If you are not in a hurry, show them that the credit card slip clearly states that you have a choice to decide what currency you want to be charged in. Their bank's/cc processor's phone line is open 24h so they can always call them and ask for help if they don't know how to switch currency. Your bank is probably also available 24h (call the number on the back of the card).

But it shouldn't be a problem at a hospital where you can simply tell the cashier to go get her boss, or to call the bank she is using for credit card payments and hand the phone to you. If it is pre-payment for a procedure, just tell them that you are going to Samitivej or Bangkok Hospital if they don't charge you in THB. If post-payment for an OPD visit just be stubborn and refuse to sign the credit card slip until they charge you in THB.

After paying in THB, call the number on the back of your credit card and ask them if there are any charges in USD/EUR/JPY and if so tell them that you are disputing those charges. If a lot of people do that, merchants who has turned it into a habit to refuse charging in THB will get in trouble with VISA/MC and may get blacklisted by those CC companies.

[pampal]

I always pay cash

[bruce3404]

Having spent over 500,000 ThB during the past three weeks at Bumrungrad, consisting of 9 different charges in various departments, I speak with experience. Some, but not all, of the cashiers asked if I wanted to be charged in baht or dollars; each time I made a lame joke about charging in dollars if they would convert at 40 baht and asked the exchange rate....it varied, since the baht has been going up and down a lot the past few weeks, but it was NEVER more than the real exchange rate minus 3 baht/dollar, or roughly a 10% surcharge. When I asked one cashier why the hospital was ripping off clients who wanted to pay in dollars, she told me that the hospital makes no profit and that all profit was Bangkok Bank's. Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but I can say that I was never pressured to pay in dollars, just asked if I wanted to.